20:01:14 <stickster> #startmeeting Insight (agenda: http://tinyurl.com/insight-agenda )
20:01:14 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Aug  2 20:01:14 2011 UTC.  The chair is stickster. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:01:14 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
20:01:17 <stickster> #meetingname Insight
20:01:17 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'insight'
20:01:19 <stickster> #topic Roll call!
20:01:42 <asrob> re
20:01:42 * nirik is lurking around.
20:01:48 <stickster> Hi asrob, nirik!
20:01:55 * stickster waits to see if pcalarco rolls in
20:02:04 <asrob> hi stickster, nirik
20:02:36 * stickster gives until :03 :-)
20:03:09 <stickster> #chair asrob nirik
20:03:09 <zodbot> Current chairs: asrob nirik stickster
20:03:17 <stickster> OK, here we go...
20:03:22 <stickster> #topic Last week's action items
20:03:36 <stickster> #link http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2011-07-26/insight.2011-07-26-20.13.html <-- last week's notes
20:03:52 <asrob> #info drupal6-strongarm has been packaged and reviewed. Thanks stickster!
20:04:01 <stickster> You're welcome :-)
20:04:12 <stickster> #info stickster fixed asrob's branch as well
20:04:43 <stickster> #link http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=fedora-insight-features.git;a=commit;h=34e5f2d2c62df671dc34452759fc419385e12cc0
20:05:14 <stickster> There's a note there, but basically if you're branching for development, you probably don't want to do an entire separate directory *unless* you're working on a totally separate Feature set
20:05:27 <stickster> This way it's easier to merge the changes later without trying to figure out which module is which
20:06:16 <stickster> OK, pcalarco is here and the other needs to stay on our agenda:
20:06:19 <asrob> I understand it
20:06:25 <stickster> #action pcalarco Ask FWN team for volunteers to help with Insight moderation queue, and coordinate w/ logistics list to set up briefing time
20:06:31 <stickster> #action stickster puppetize features_extra usage once it enters stable
20:07:00 <stickster> asrob: I'm thinking that as we go further down the road, there will be multiple dirs in that repo, and each would be a separate feature
20:07:10 <stickster> *if* we have the ability to separate them out
20:07:22 <stickster> I don't think we can do bug fixes that way because the code would be too intertwined.
20:07:57 <asrob> you might be right
20:08:23 <stickster> Like, I don't see us being able to do a separate folder for "bugfix-ticket-NNNN"
20:08:40 <stickster> Besides, that would probably be silly since we have the git commits as a record of fixes
20:09:39 <stickster> OK. Moving on?
20:09:53 <asrob> yeah, sure
20:09:57 <stickster> #topic Devel status
20:10:34 <stickster> #info We now have admin_menu available on insight01.dev -- where we can test before turning it on in production. Impact should be zero.
20:10:49 <pcalarco> Hi all -- sorry I am late
20:10:55 <asrob> pcalarco, hi :)
20:11:28 <stickster> Hi pcalarco!
20:11:30 <stickster> #chair pcalarco
20:11:30 <zodbot> Current chairs: asrob nirik pcalarco stickster
20:13:00 * stickster is turning on that module in the dev host, hang on...
20:14:20 <stickster> pcalarco: asrob: OK, done!
20:15:12 <stickster> So that's done :-) Please try out the menu and make sure you don't see any problems while you're floating around http://insight01.dev.fedoraproject.org
20:15:20 * nirik has 2 minor items for open floor or the like.
20:15:32 <stickster> nirik: Want me to ping you when we get there?
20:15:41 <nirik> sure, or I can watch ;)
20:15:43 <stickster> COol
20:15:49 <stickster> #topic Devel status -- Features plan
20:16:52 <stickster> OK, asrob and I touched on this earlier. But just to revive the topic... Now that we're getting our basic features ready, it will be soon time to try our git repo on the staging+production side.
20:17:53 <stickster> The working plan is that we are (1) creating features in separate branches to try them in a sandbox; (2) Using 'devel' branch as the source for the insight01.dev host
20:19:24 <stickster> However, we don't have any divergence yet between 'devel' and 'master' IIRC. So what we might want to take the opportunity to do here is refigure our branch strategy slightly
20:20:10 <stickster> nirik: Maybe you could weigh in here, since I'm not a git expert. I was thinking that we could merge finished development stuff into 'master' and use that for the insight01.dev host...
20:20:35 <stickster> wiat
20:20:37 <nirik> well, you could do branches... there are downsides tho...
20:20:41 <stickster> *wait. Sorry, I misstated
20:20:55 <nirik> Could you just use the seperate hosts in the master branch?
20:20:56 <stickster> Go ahead nirik
20:21:14 <asrob> hm, which one can we easily manage to long time? not days or months
20:21:16 <nirik> are you talking the puppet git repo here? or ?
20:21:33 <stickster> nirik: No, our "fedora-insight-features" and "fedora-insight-theme" repos.
20:21:41 <nirik> ah, ok.
20:21:57 <stickster> nirik: Each repo contains one or more folders, which represent our custom module(s) or theme.
20:21:58 <nirik> branches would work as long as you are always good about flowing things the same way.
20:22:02 <stickster> nirik: Right
20:22:18 <nirik> if you bypass and do something direct to production sometime, then it gets more messy.
20:22:18 <stickster> I don't want it to get confusing, and I want to see if we can draw on experience in e.g. infra and websites
20:22:25 <stickster> nirik: Right again :-)
20:22:48 <nirik> in the end, it's worth trying something and see if it works for you... ;)
20:22:53 <nirik> if not, moving to something else.
20:23:25 <stickster> nirik: Right now we have this: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Insight_development_using_Features_module
20:24:09 <nirik> ah, I see...
20:24:13 <nirik> yeah, that could work fine.
20:24:28 <stickster> essentially 2 persistent shared branches, devel and master. WiP gets its own temporary branch, then merged to devel which the insight01.dev draws on every 30 min.
20:25:01 <stickster> The master branch would power production, but I could see pulling it more rarely on the actual production host so that a mistake in staging could be withdrawn quickly without harm
20:25:34 <stickster> In other words, both insight.stg and insight would pull from 'master', but maybe insight.stg would do it every 30 min and insight would do it every 2 or 4 hours.
20:26:01 * stickster welcomes comments from asrob, nirik, pcalarco
20:26:06 <stickster> (or anyone watching) ;-)
20:27:01 <asrob> stickster, if nirik +1 to our Insight development using Features module progress then I'll +1, I'm a git beginner as well :)
20:27:15 * nirik isn't a git expert by any means.
20:27:21 <nirik> it seems like it should be a workable plan...
20:27:29 * stickster neither, just know enough to get along, and have a few tricks in my bag, that's it
20:27:55 <stickster> OK then, we need to have the proper configs in puppet to support this then.
20:28:04 <asrob> yeah
20:28:10 <nirik> yeah, to pull from there you mean?
20:28:14 <pcalarco> stickster: sounds like a good plan to me
20:28:29 <stickster> nirik: Right. I've done it for the dev host, just need to set it up properly for the stg and prod
20:28:32 <stickster> I guess that's on me since out of the Insight crew I probably have the most puppet-fu
20:28:38 * nirik nods
20:28:43 <stickster> Other than nirik of course ;-)
20:29:20 <stickster> #action stickster Set up puppet configs so stg and prod hosts pull from 'master' branch of fedora-insight-features every 30 min and 4 hrs, respectively
20:29:49 <stickster> asrob: Before we enable any of the feature modules, we need any remaining required modules to land in EPEL stable
20:29:58 <stickster> That's going to be another 1+ week, iirc
20:30:54 <asrob> stickster, yeah
20:32:43 <stickster> OK then -- I'll watch the mail for that.
20:32:53 <stickster> Sorry for a delay -- have a couple problems I'm t'shooting here at home
20:33:59 <stickster> #info stickster and asrob will coordinate puppet changes with package pushes
20:34:06 <stickster> #topic mediawiki_api status
20:34:11 <stickster> OK asrob, take it away
20:34:20 <asrob> huh
20:34:47 <asrob> so, I didn't get any answer from the maintainer of that modules
20:35:13 <asrob> stickster and I talked about this "problem" a little bit
20:35:46 <asrob> what do you think? do we fork this module or look for another one?
20:36:26 <stickster> asrob: My personal feeling is that this module implements MediaWiki usage in the best way, which is to wrap the existing API
20:36:26 <asrob> I think, stickster and I vote to fork that
20:36:32 <stickster> It requires the least maintenance
20:36:40 <stickster> asrob: Well, not quite :-)
20:37:09 <asrob> ;)
20:37:13 <asrob> then go ahead
20:37:18 <stickster> asrob: I merely presented the option that if the maintainer is completely gone and it's unmaintained, our options are (1) fork, or (2) ask Drupal bigwigs if they will turn over the ownership
20:37:45 <stickster> I think (2) may be difficult because there are probably all sorts of implications of ownership beyond just maintaining the code
20:38:16 <stickster> #info stickster has been talking to someone at Acquia about this module, and he is looking at it to make an estimate of the code quality.
20:38:43 <stickster> I can say from personal testing it appears to work fairly well, but there are a small number of outstanding issues, some addressed in a patch that's still in the issue tracker.
20:39:02 <stickster> http://drupal.org/project/issues/mediawiki_api
20:39:04 <asrob> yeah, I've seen them as well
20:39:25 <stickster> One of those tickets is actually a CLOSED NOTABUG
20:39:44 <stickster> the second one, I think -- http://drupal.org/node/1122168
20:40:17 <stickster> Anyway, what I would propose we do is to defer this one until my Acquia contact gets back to me
20:40:21 <stickster> I hope that will happen this week
20:40:28 <pcalarco> +1
20:40:37 <stickster> #idea Defer decision on mediawiki_api until Acquia guy gets back to stickster
20:41:02 <asrob> cool
20:41:18 <stickster> #agreed Defer decision on mediawiki_api until Acquia guy gets back to stickster
20:42:08 <stickster> OK, use cases are up next, but we have only 18 min left and nirik had 2 topics.
20:42:13 <stickster> Can we slot him in now and come back to those?
20:42:32 <nirik> I won't take much time. ;)
20:42:43 <stickster> Even better :-)
20:42:51 <stickster> #topic Open floor for nirik
20:43:01 <nirik> just 2 quick items to discuss:
20:43:19 <nirik> 1) Not sure where the calendaring thing is with insight. Is that still in planning stages?
20:43:32 <stickster> nirik: Very much still in "idea" phase
20:43:46 <nirik> ok, I'd like to ask everyone to look at and update: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Calendar_Project
20:43:50 <stickster> as in, not yet even a plan in place -- we have some use cases but not all of them.
20:44:13 <nirik> ok. I'm going to try and get something moving on calendar if possible...
20:44:18 <nirik> it's been forever. ;)
20:44:28 <nirik> adamw was also interested in pushing it forward.
20:44:51 <nirik> more just a FYI, interest, etc.
20:45:18 <stickster> nirik: One of the requirements might be difficult -- individual calendars + shared event calendar
20:45:25 <asrob> nirik, use cases: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Insight_use_cases_for_calendar
20:45:40 <nirik> and 2) There was a suggestion made a while back to have a Fedora branded link shortener. I noticed that dupal had one... so possibly insight could do this function someday?
20:45:50 <nirik> stickster: yeah, it's not clear to me how hard that requirement is.
20:46:14 <nirik> I think I am going to try and pare it down to "We really want this now" and "these things can come down the road, or are not that important"
20:46:15 <stickster> nirik: What's the best way for us to respond there?
20:46:21 <stickster> nirik: Should we attach comments on the talk page?
20:46:50 <nirik> stickster: sure I guess. Could also start a thread somewhere on a mailing list to gather more info...
20:47:23 <stickster> nirik: I personally find threads are hard to manage that way
20:47:31 <stickster> But I'll put comments wherever you like!
20:47:41 <nirik> yeah, could be unless someone filters thru them all and gathers comments.
20:47:48 <stickster> exactly. btdt :-)
20:47:53 <nirik> I guess the talk page would be ok...
20:48:16 <nirik> thats all I had, just wanted to bring up those 2 items. ;)
20:48:49 <asrob> Fedora branded link shortener, I like this :)
20:49:28 <nirik> asrob: and it might not be too hard to implement.
20:49:33 <stickster> #action pcalarco stickster asrob Visit https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Calendar_Project and make comments, on 'discussion' tab (Talk page)
20:49:50 <stickster> asrob: I found http://drupal.org/node/805174 -- is that what you're talking about nirik?
20:49:55 <asrob> nirik, of course, http://drupal.org/project/shurly
20:50:00 <stickster> Ah!
20:50:04 <nirik> yeah.
20:50:20 <stickster> Beautiful! And it's GPLv2+ since it's in the Drupal git :-)
20:50:31 <asrob> stickster, yeah, that also would work ;)
20:51:14 <stickster> ShURLy might be the better choice -- however asrob, nirik, notice it's in a release candidate status with no commits since 5 months ago.
20:51:43 <stickster> Nothing since the initial commit, actually :-(
20:52:17 <stickster> Shorten looks more active: http://drupalcode.org/project/shorten.git
20:52:53 * stickster thinks if it's not a problem to call out to an external free service, *and* if Shorten supports one (like ur1.ca or 2tu.us) we could use that one
20:52:58 <nirik> so many projects to do one thing. ;)
20:53:25 <stickster> nirik: The Shorten project just provides a wrapper to get the URL from an existing service. The ShURLy project is a separate implementation to shorten URLs
20:53:42 <nirik> ah, ok
20:54:40 <asrob> stickster, yeah, shorten might be better
20:55:50 <stickster> asrob: We'd have to look at whether Shorten would allow us to alter the array of services to add a free one. None of the ones I see in the list so far is free.
20:56:38 <asrob> stickster, absolute
20:56:50 <stickster> We'd have to do that with the Hook API, not by altering the module
20:56:58 <stickster> OK, what do we want to do next here?
20:57:29 <stickster> nirik: Do you foresee having something like http://fd.ra ?
20:57:59 <nirik> stickster: yeah, dunno what would make sense...
20:58:08 <nirik> it was just an idea I thought I would throw out to you guys.
20:58:20 <stickster> nirik: We could probably provide it.
20:58:38 <stickster> #agreed Insight could probably provide a URL shortening service without too much work
20:59:12 <stickster> OK, looks like that may be the end for today
20:59:18 <stickster> nirik: Thanks for bringing those ideas in
20:59:23 <stickster> Good discussion guys!
20:59:51 <asrob> thank you
20:59:58 <nirik> happy to
21:00:15 <stickster> OK, that does it for us!
21:00:18 <stickster> #endmeeting