23:10:28 <jjmcd> #startmeeting #Fedora Docs Project 23:10:28 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Jul 6 23:10:28 2011 UTC. The chair is jjmcd. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 23:10:28 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 23:10:36 <jjmcd> #topic Roll Call 23:10:40 * jjmcd 23:10:47 * rudi is here 23:11:39 <fnadge1> me too 23:11:41 * jsmith is here (at least for a few minutes) 23:12:15 * rbergeron wanders in 23:12:27 <jjmcd> Ahhh, there's sgordon and Robyn, too 23:12:42 * jhradilek is here too. 23:12:43 <jjmcd> OK, lets get rudi on stage here quick 23:12:55 <jjmcd> #topic Last week's action items 23:13:05 <jjmcd> rudi - FOP? 23:13:43 <rudi> FOP still kaput. One last avenue of enquiry upstream available 23:13:44 * sgordon is here 23:14:12 <jjmcd> OK, on UTF-8 I had some thought but failed to get with rudi, but I gather rudi has some news 23:14:41 <rudi> Yeah, we finally tracked down the issue to a Publican bug 23:14:48 <rudi> :) 23:15:22 <jsmith> Oh? 23:15:26 <jsmith> That's good news, I guess... 23:15:27 <jjmcd> So, will it be straightforward to repair? 23:15:32 <rudi> Yes! Easy fix! 23:15:48 <jsmith> rudi: Any idea when we'll see the next 2.x version packaged up for Fedora? 23:16:17 <rudi> The docs packages include some perl commands in %post that are apparently executed a little differently in OSes newer than RHEL5 23:16:39 <jjmcd> Don't tell me, you added a -C in the spec 23:16:47 <rudi> Not quite ;) 23:16:52 <rudi> "use utf-8" 23:16:53 <rudi> ! 23:17:01 <jjmcd> heh 23:17:19 <jjmcd> Well, that's good news 23:17:25 <rudi> jsmith -- we're trying to lock down a timeframe for 2.6 release 23:17:38 <jsmith> OK, good to know 23:17:46 <jjmcd> #info UTF-8 issues has been tracked down. Hope for a fix in Publican 2.6 23:17:55 <rudi> (for those not following Publican list, we've decided to go for one last 2.x release since 3.0 will be a longer while away) 23:18:02 <jjmcd> Oh yeah, I forgot 23:18:15 <jjmcd> #todo rudi to continue to follow up on FOP issue 23:18:30 <rudi> I'm hoping that we'll get 2.6 out in the next few weeks 23:18:37 <jjmcd> outstanding 23:18:44 <rudi> There's a long laundry list of annoying little bugs that we'd love to clear 23:19:04 <jjmcd> I just realized today I've been staring at a publican bug for weeks 23:19:32 <rudi> Oh? Which one? 23:19:37 <jjmcd> Proly should visit BZ with it 23:19:40 <rudi> (lots to choose from right now...:( ) 23:19:55 <rudi> Oh, a new one? If so, yeah, get it in fast! :) 23:19:57 <jjmcd> If you use a entity in the heading, it is blank in the filename 23:20:27 <jjmcd> Specifically &PRODUCT; and &PRODVER; are used to componse filenames 23:20:29 <sgordon> is it blank or just not expanded? 23:20:36 <jjmcd> null 23:20:42 <sgordon> i have noticed for instance just getting PRODUCT in the filename 23:20:53 <jjmcd> so you get a filename starting with -- pretty inconvenient 23:20:59 <sgordon> :o 23:21:16 <rudi> That... may not be an easy fix. But bug please! :) 23:21:28 <jjmcd> Wilco 23:21:45 <jjmcd> #todo jjmcd to file bug on PRODUCT/PRODVER in Publican 23:22:03 <jjmcd> OK, other to-do's 23:22:18 <jjmcd> #todo jjmcd to check with dgrift on Ubuntu migration / policycoreutils 23:22:35 <jjmcd> Still haven't moved on that one beyond asking in the bug 23:22:45 <jjmcd> which I couldn't find the other day :-( 23:22:56 <jjmcd> I think the rest belong to Eric 23:23:38 <jjmcd> Shoot 23:23:47 <jjmcd> I'm supposed to be saying action 23:23:57 <jjmcd> #action rudi to continue to follow up on FOP issue 23:24:06 <jjmcd> #action jjmcd to file bug on PRODUCT/PRODVER in Publican 23:24:14 <jjmcd> #action jjmcd to check with dgrift on Ubuntu migration / policycoreutils 23:24:41 <jjmcd> #action Sparks to work with OLF folks to figure out a good time for the event 23:25:01 <jjmcd> #action Sparks to work on teleconference setup for OLF 23:25:15 <jjmcd> #action Sparks to update the DOcs list on Docs QA 23:25:34 <jjmcd> Sorry I'm slow, I have to type these - the email is on a different computer 23:26:13 <jjmcd> Unfortunately, thinks like Copyright changes from previous agendas Eric was kind of running point, 23:26:24 <jjmcd> but prolly worthwhile talking about FAD @ OLF 23:26:38 <jjmcd> #topic Goals for FAD @ OLF 23:27:08 <jjmcd> OK, so I guess the timing is such that we are in a good position for F16 Guides 23:27:24 <jjmcd> Does anyone have thoughts on what we should try to accomplish specifically? 23:28:07 <jjmcd> DOn't everyone junp at once! 23:29:02 <jjmcd> Are there specific guides that a bunch of hands would help on? 23:29:22 <jjmcd> Or perhaps having some experienced folks guide newer contributors? 23:29:50 <jjmcd> Nothing? 23:30:08 <rudi> Taking a look at the guides table... 23:30:30 <rudi> statuses out of date, but the catalog should still be about right: 23:30:37 <rudi> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_guides_table 23:31:34 * gomix here 23:31:42 <rudi> Maybe another question we could think about is what areas of Fedora are not well documented right now? 23:31:43 <jjmcd> I would be all for simply crashing on the user guide simply because there is still so much work there 23:31:58 <jjmcd> Good point, rudi 23:32:19 <rudi> I mean, we have the "core" of the OS broadly covered 23:32:38 * jjmcd has been making a lot of headway lately on an R guide, but that is kind of a niche thing 23:32:47 <rudi> But, to me, the real gems are things like the Amateur Radio Guide and Musician's Guide 23:32:54 <rudi> They are pure gold! 23:33:03 <jjmcd> True, nobody else has them 23:33:06 <gomix> + 23:33:13 <rudi> And there must be other specific use cases where Fedora shines 23:33:17 <jjmcd> I was surprised at the Musician's guide 23:33:19 <rudi> and we just need to tell people about it. 23:33:34 <gomix> i was trying to convince an astrophysicist who uses fedora to actually write a doc 23:33:42 <gomix> he uses fedora for his work 23:33:51 <jjmcd> A while back I looked for little concentration of things like stamp collectors, quilters, anything. Didn't see anything non-geeky 23:33:52 <gomix> but im still failing :/ 23:33:54 <rudi> Yeah, Astronomy is a notable omission 23:34:06 <jjmcd> rudi, yes, and we have an active SIG, too 23:34:15 <gomix> he's an argentinan guy living in brazil (skytux) 23:34:16 <rudi> I know! No excuse! :) 23:34:32 <rudi> gomix -- wow, love the handle :) 23:34:45 <gomix> so maybe someelse can help me on convince him 23:34:57 * gomix sees jsmith playing a role there ;) 23:35:09 <jjmcd> A lot of the astronomy apps are really something else 23:35:21 <jjmcd> like radio or photography 23:36:07 <jjmcd> rudi, do you have any insight as to whether any of the Astronomy SIG folks will be at OLF? 23:36:25 <rudi> No, but I can look into that. 23:36:38 <jjmcd> gomix, I missed that way up there. Is your astrophysicist guy coming to OLF? 23:36:47 <gomix> no idea jjmcd 23:37:07 <jjmcd> If we could get an SME in the same room as a bunch of Docs guys for a while we probably could do something neat 23:37:24 <gomix> what do you mean SME ? 23:37:31 <jjmcd> subject matter expert 23:37:34 <rudi> Yeah, if subject matter experts don't have the time or interest to write a guide themselves, writers can interview them 23:37:42 <jjmcd> Whatever the subject 23:37:47 <gomix> Oh... (small medium enterprises is my usual translation to that) 23:37:47 <Sparks> . 23:38:07 <jjmcd> rudi, exactly. Whether an astrophysicist, photographer, bird watcher, whatever 23:38:11 <jjmcd> HEY SPARKS! 23:38:19 <rudi> Hi Sparks :) 23:38:25 <jjmcd> gomix, yes, I've seen that usage, too 23:38:37 <Sparks> Sorry, had a meeting 23:39:01 <jjmcd> Well, we needed you for most of the topics so we moved on to OLF 23:39:26 <Sparks> sry 23:39:33 <jjmcd> We were discussing whether we could capture someone expert in some field where we could use a guide .. like astrophysics 23:39:49 <jjmcd> We have a recent rash of particle physics app, too 23:39:52 <Sparks> capture? 23:40:00 <rudi> Yeah, lasso 23:40:04 <Sparks> Can we keep them at jsmith's house? 23:40:15 <jjmcd> If we had an expert in the same room as the writers, we could probably do some cool stuff 23:40:27 * Sparks agrees 23:40:55 <jjmcd> The experts might not be interested in writing, but I bet they would be interested in seeing a guide for their area 23:41:12 <rudi> We noted that Astronomy almost certainly has scope for a guide a la the Musician's or ARG 23:41:22 <jjmcd> Yes, absolutely 23:41:22 <Sparks> Yeah. If we could interview them and talk to them about the software and their usage... 23:41:41 <rudi> and there are no doubt other areas that aren't as immediately visible 23:41:42 <Sparks> There used to be an astronomy spin, I think 23:41:44 <jjmcd> But we could say the same for Chemistry, Genomics, .... 23:41:45 <Sparks> and SIG 23:41:58 <jjmcd> Yeah that's the advantage Astronomy has 23:42:08 <jjmcd> there is a place where we might find the expert 23:42:41 <jjmcd> ANother active SIG is the ARM guys 23:42:55 <Sparks> Are we doing this as a psuedo marketting ploy? 23:43:01 * gomix would like to shake up ruby-sig 23:43:17 * gomix but it's definetly geek area 23:43:37 <jjmcd> Well, as rudi pointed out, the Musician, and ARG guides are real gems that are meaningful to their audiences 23:43:46 <Sparks> I could see a potential for lots of articles helping x-developers get started using Fedora whether it be ruby or C or python or... 23:43:56 <jjmcd> ANd it makes Fedora, and Linux for that matter, more approachable 23:44:09 <rudi> Sparks +1 23:44:25 <Sparks> It wouldn't have to be a large guide... 23:44:26 <rudi> It's an answer to "why would I want to use /that/"? 23:44:32 <Sparks> yep 23:44:37 <jjmcd> You know, I know a guy who did a great presentation on Python programming last OLF 23:44:52 <gomix> i would love to start a ruby@fedora doc.. if i have the time.. i already started something.. but it will definetly takes time.. (f16 is too close) 23:44:54 <jjmcd> And we all know him, too 23:44:57 <Sparks> probably the same guy that did one at SELF 23:45:35 <jjmcd> probably 23:45:57 <jjmcd> Kind of a round-ish guy that plays the guitar 23:46:16 <Sparks> wow 23:46:48 <jjmcd> So, who wants to take point on identifying a victim or two? 23:48:10 <Sparks> <crickets> 23:48:15 * rbergeron is looking at pseudo-marketing ploy 23:48:18 <jjmcd> Tell you what ... I'll reach out and see if I can find a science type for a Chem or Physics guide 23:48:33 <jjmcd> And perhaps Sparks can try to recruit a Python guy? 23:48:44 <gomix> i can try to talk again to skytux... 23:48:52 <jjmcd> gomix - great 23:49:04 * rudi has to bow out of the meeting... I have another IRL to scurry off to 23:49:11 <jjmcd> #action jjmcd to look for a Chem/Physics expert for OLF 23:49:17 <Sparks> jjmcd: bcotton would probably be a good person to find academic types 23:49:17 <jjmcd> Seeya rudi thanks 23:49:25 <rudi> Back later today. 23:49:39 <jjmcd> #action gomix to look for an astrophysics expert for OLF 23:50:09 <jjmcd> Sparks, cool. I think I have a few contacts from Release Notes contributors 23:50:24 <jjmcd> So are you willing to lean on stickster? 23:50:58 <Sparks> sure 23:51:16 <jjmcd> #action Sparks to look for an Python expert for OLF 23:51:28 <jjmcd> good deal ... we might end up doing some good 23:51:55 <gomix> sorry .. but what's OLF ? 23:51:59 <jjmcd> Sparks, you may have missed, but rudi identified the UTF-8 bug 23:52:05 <jjmcd> Ohio Linux Fest 23:52:20 <Sparks> jjmcd: Awesome 23:52:28 <Sparks> and he fixed it? 23:52:29 <jjmcd> I know you won't be there, but I am looking forward to meeting you at FUDcon 23:52:45 <jjmcd> Sparks, next release of Publican 23:52:54 <Sparks> +1 23:53:10 <jjmcd> gomix, I read your ticket, I can't believe they would turn you down with that pitch 23:53:42 <jjmcd> OK, anything else on FAD@OLF? 23:53:49 <jjmcd> (we are running out the clock) 23:54:47 <jjmcd> In fact, in spite of the fact we have lots else to talk about, we prolly should just go to our closing topic 23:55:03 <jjmcd> #topic Open floor discussion 23:55:10 <jjmcd> Anything else for the good of the order? 23:55:40 * gomix smg (es-ES) will the se light today if im lucky with publican ;) 23:55:58 <jjmcd> gomix, I did push it the other day 23:56:08 <gomix> :o 23:56:29 <jjmcd> Monday 23:56:41 <jjmcd> Sorry, I should have mentioned it 23:56:44 <gomix> :) 23:56:47 <gomix> thank u so much 23:56:51 <jjmcd> No prob 23:57:24 <jjmcd> Sparks, we didn't get to talk copyright, QA. Those will have to wait for next week if they need more discussion 23:57:26 <gomix> we should work on the draft watermark 23:57:45 <Sparks> jjmcd: Yeah... :/ 23:57:57 <Sparks> jjmcd: I "fixed" the copyright on several documents the other day. 23:58:06 <jjmcd> gomix, back on like F10 I did draft watermarks for like 15-20 langs. But the next publican brand wiped them out 23:58:12 <jjmcd> Sparks, excellent 23:58:26 <jjmcd> Is there a brand with the fix? 23:58:42 <Sparks> jjmcd: There isn't. I don't think it is in the Brand. 23:58:48 <Sparks> I couldn't find it anyway 23:58:58 * Sparks can look again, though. 23:59:16 <jjmcd> hmmmm, my ARPSC dox have a copyright notice in them 23:59:39 <jjmcd> Talks about CC-by-SA and how Michigan Section ... yada yada 23:59:48 <Sparks> Okay, I'll look again and find it and provide a patch 00:00:20 <jjmcd> I did overwrite it for a FOUO document, but by default I put it in the brand 00:00:41 <Sparks> okay 00:00:55 <jjmcd> OK, we are a minute to 8 ... any last minute additions? 00:01:22 <jjmcd> I take that back, I looked at the wrong clock, we're late 00:01:33 <jjmcd> Thanks everyone for coming and contributing 00:01:38 <gomix> .) 00:01:46 <jjmcd> I think we got some good stuff started here 00:02:06 <jjmcd> #endmeeting