20:01:06 <stickster> #startmeeting Insight (http://tinyurl.com/insight-agenda)
20:01:06 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue May 17 20:01:06 2011 UTC.  The chair is stickster. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:01:06 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
20:01:09 <stickster> #meetingname Insight
20:01:09 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'insight'
20:01:12 <stickster> #topic Rollc all
20:01:15 <stickster> #undo
20:01:15 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0x15f69fac>
20:01:17 <stickster> #topic Roll call
20:01:28 * stickster 
20:01:33 <asrob> hey
20:01:35 <stickster> <-- messin' up the minutes already :-D
20:02:25 <stickster> averi reported he would be slightly late
20:02:32 <asrob> yeah
20:02:57 * stickster wonders if pcalarco will be able to make this time in the future
20:03:47 <stickster> #chair asrob
20:03:47 <zodbot> Current chairs: asrob stickster
20:03:53 <stickster> Might as well go ahead :-)
20:04:03 <stickster> #topic Last week's action items
20:04:19 <stickster> #link http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2011-05-10/insight.2011-05-10-20.00.html <-- Action item list
20:04:42 * stickster did #1, #4
20:05:15 <asrob> I tried to upgrade my instance to drupal 7 but it was horrible
20:05:36 <asrob> I think Feeds module in Drupal 7 is unusable
20:05:40 <stickster> Yeah, I figured as much -- upgrades when you have CCK and Views and stuff are apparently very not-fun. :-\
20:06:09 <asrob> yeah
20:06:29 <stickster> I still haven't seen a justification from hiemanshu or Nushio or anyone on why we'd need to upgrade anyway.
20:06:50 <Southern_Gentlem> ?
20:06:53 <stickster> asrob, Should we consider #5 tabled for now until we talk to them?
20:06:59 <stickster> Southern_Gentlem, Go ahead, you're welcome here!
20:07:07 <asrob> stickster: sure
20:07:20 <Southern_Gentlem> i saw an email aobut COD and doesnt it require drupal 6
20:07:29 <stickster> Southern_Gentlem, Yes, I believe it does.
20:07:38 <stickster> That's only one option open though.
20:07:56 <Southern_Gentlem> and i think COD will solve alot of the problems everyone has
20:08:28 <stickster> Southern_Gentlem, it certainly appears that way. The question is, how would hiemanshu and Nushio factor this into h's GSoC work
20:09:05 <stickster> TBH, I haven't read hiemanshu's proposal, and it might not be an issue at all. On the other hand, if he proposed writing a brand new webapp but the scope of work changes a lot, that might require some re-figgerin'
20:09:15 * Southern_Gentlem playing with COD as well for other projects
20:09:44 * stickster is not in favor of ground-up, new development in free software if something good exists already you can help with instead... but realizes this may be a personal bias
20:09:56 * averi is around!
20:10:05 <stickster> Hi averi!
20:10:09 <stickster> #chair averi Southern_Gentlem
20:10:09 <zodbot> Current chairs: Southern_Gentlem asrob averi stickster
20:10:10 <asrob> averi: hi
20:10:17 <stickster> OK, so...
20:10:19 <averi> hi all! :)
20:10:27 <stickster> #info Action items #1, #2, #4 are done
20:10:37 <stickster> #info Action item #5 tabled for now until we can talk at length to hiemanshu
20:10:59 <stickster> #action stickster email hiemanshu + Nushio once again to try to engage the engagement engines :-)
20:11:14 <stickster> #action stickster Work on puppetization of insight01.dev
20:11:22 <stickster> That does it for last week's stuff.
20:11:27 <stickster> #topic Development host status
20:12:02 <stickster> averi, You helped with a bunch of work on this -- the dev host is now up and working, well done!
20:12:28 <averi> glad I could help out to have it up and running :)
20:12:34 <stickster> I want to keep this topic separate from "Here's how we're going to manage development on that host," which we'll do next
20:13:25 <averi> and yeah, puppetizing the dev host shouldnt be hard
20:13:31 <stickster> #info averi and stickster completed dev host work -- it is now active. Wiki has been updated with links. Uses HTTPS and FAS for authentication, although no signed certs.
20:13:53 <averi> just copy the production puppet over the dev one as a new node and we should be ok
20:14:05 <averi> * production puppet node
20:14:26 <stickster> averi, That's probably the part I was looking for... wasn't sure where to put the configs exactly. I think the definition itself is very little work
20:14:53 <stickster> I'll ask on the list if I get stuck... Take my own advice/medicine ;-)
20:15:16 <stickster> Anything else on *setting up* that host we need to cover here?
20:15:24 <averi> stickster, I can work on it if you want, it's really a one minute work
20:15:40 <stickster> averi, That would be AWESOME if you could!
20:16:02 <averi> sure, no problem :)
20:16:18 <stickster> #action averi Finish puppetization of insight01.dev on behalf of stickster since he has more clue ;-)
20:17:01 <stickster> OK, moving on then?
20:17:05 <averi> yup!
20:17:16 <stickster> #topic Feature proposal discussion
20:17:25 <stickster> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Insight_development_using_Features_module
20:17:57 <stickster> asrob kindly prepared a proposal for us to read and discuss on how to use the Features module going forward.
20:18:17 <stickster> #info asrob + averi set up a fedora-insight-features git repo on Fedora Hosted for use as well -- brilliant!
20:19:02 <averi> stickster, I would say let's give us a week to vote on asrob's proposal
20:19:07 <asrob> stickster: yeah, + basic features of Insight has been pushed
20:19:25 <asrob> aka Phase 1 features
20:19:26 <stickster> averi, Well... I'd love to take part of that week to actually work on tickets :-)
20:19:55 <averi> stickster, :) let me see the wiki page, just a second
20:20:11 <stickster> asrob, So you figured out that if the DB already has exportables (pieces of a Feature) in it, and you install a "Feature module" in the modules page, nothing bad happens.
20:20:29 <asrob> yeah
20:20:30 <stickster> (oops, I mean, install a Feature module that duplicates those exportables)
20:20:32 <averi> ah that's the wiki page asrob linked me yesterday, it's look nice to me :)
20:20:46 <asrob> I modified the FWN View my instance
20:20:54 <stickster> asrob, Were you able to figure out if changes that only go into the Feature module actually change the site properly?
20:21:06 <asrob> enabled our features again
20:21:39 <asrob> and it show me that our features is overridden
20:21:55 <asrob> wait a sec, I am showing a screenshot ;)
20:22:01 <averi> stickster, I have some people waiting for me downstairs, do you need any other input from me?
20:22:21 <stickster> averi, I think it's OK for now -- thanks and feel free to drop back in if you can, otherwise see you later :0-)
20:23:00 <averi> stickster, sure, will do my best to get back, and in the worst case I'll read backlogs and act upon the action items assigned to me :)
20:23:11 <stickster> averi, No worries, have fun!
20:23:21 <asrob> stickster: http://rookery9.aviary.com.s3.amazonaws.com/8105000/8105133_2ef3.png
20:23:23 <averi> thanks Paul, cya later!
20:23:33 <asrob> scroll down to the bottom of the page
20:24:10 <asrob> you can see that, Views is overriden
20:24:26 <stickster> asrob, OK, so what this shows is, if you make a change locally to what the Feature module knows about, that change is seen and alerted.
20:24:27 <asrob> but you can revert components to the default status
20:24:42 <asrob> yeah, you are right
20:25:01 <stickster> asrob, Maybe I'm thinking about this wrong
20:25:31 <stickster> asrob, Is there any way to put an exportable in the Feature module, and have it *conflict* with the local site? Or will the Feature always do one of two things -- be in sync, or Overridden?
20:26:33 * stickster is using really poor grammar, and it is probably hard to understand the question the way I asked it.
20:26:44 <stickster> It's a difficult concept to express :-)
20:26:48 <asrob> I am trying.... ;)
20:26:57 <stickster> Let me try again, it's my fault asrob :-)
20:28:49 <stickster> Am I correct that there are only two possible states for the Feature module, "Default" (meaning the current site matches the Feature module's value for an exportable), or "Overridden" (meaning the site doesn't match the Feature module) ?
20:29:17 <asrob> yeah, you are right
20:29:39 <stickster> Oh I see
20:29:44 * stickster is referring to API.txt
20:30:40 <stickster> In terms of real exportables, there's actually a *third* state called "Needs review" -- which means that both the Features module on disk, and the current site status, have changed from the old code state
20:30:58 <stickster> Which hopefully we should be able to avoid
20:31:53 <asrob> stickster: http://drupal.org/node/582680 ;)
20:31:53 <stickster> asrob, I get it -- and therefore my original question was meaningless. If the states are different we simply have to re-export the change into the Feature module code and then commit, push, etc.
20:32:13 <stickster> yup yup
20:32:57 <asrob> or if the modified state is useful and we have to get that, we just re-create features
20:32:57 <stickster> asrob, So what I've been doing as I make site changes, is to re-export into a new tarball, commit that to git (and push when appropriate)
20:33:07 <stickster> asrob, RIGHT! Yay, I understand then :-)
20:33:12 <asrob> ;)
20:33:14 <asrob> \o/
20:33:22 <stickster> It's a big deal, believe me :-D
20:33:27 <asrob> :D
20:34:01 <stickster> asrob, So given that... what I would also think we should do is to use 'git tag' for our various Features when we're ready to declare a Feature ready to go
20:34:20 <asrob> absolutely
20:34:56 <asrob> where do we tag our features? in the devel branch?
20:34:58 <stickster> asrob, One concern I just thought of... this repo will have many directories, each one a Feature module containing changes for that particular Feature. Correct so far?
20:35:25 <asrob> yeah
20:35:48 <stickster> OK. Imagine you and I are both working on separate Feature modules, and you finish before me.
20:36:04 <stickster> You tag the git repo with "asrob-cool-stuff-0.3"
20:36:23 <stickster> That would actually contain any of the incomplete stuff I've already pushed
20:37:10 <stickster> Should we think about developing each module in separate working branches? That way you could merge that branch into 'devel' without worrying about whether I was done or not.
20:37:23 <stickster> 'devel' branch would feed --> insight01.dev
20:37:46 <asrob> hmm, it is great
20:38:00 <stickster> And if all's well, we could merge 'devel' to 'master' (or something else) which would feed --> insight.fp.o (production)
20:38:24 <asrob> got it
20:38:27 <stickster> But never merge 'stickster-not-finished-work' to 'master' directly
20:38:28 <asrob> +1 from me ;)
20:39:10 <stickster> Because it would have to go to 'devel' branch --> insight01.dev for people to see, and provide +1 votes in the ticket (remember my proposal?) to say the fix is good and ready to go out
20:39:29 <stickster> Does that seem too complicated, or just right?
20:39:50 <asrob> I think it does not, it will be good
20:39:55 <stickster> \o/
20:40:38 <stickster> #action stickster to add the branch/merge proposal we just discussed above to the wiki page Peter wrote
20:41:04 <stickster> I think that means we will be ready to start fixing tickets just about any time after that :-)
20:41:19 <asrob> yeah ;)
20:41:39 <stickster> asrob, Here's a question, should we provide fixes as changes against the insight_basic_features module then?
20:42:16 <stickster> Then we can divide all future work/enhancements into separate chunks as their own Feature modules (like a podcast feed, or whatever)
20:42:31 <stickster> The Phase 1 stuff we'll consider as its own single module
20:43:38 <asrob> hm hm, I can re-create insight_basic_features module if it is needed
20:44:23 <stickster> asrob, do you mean renaming? I don't think that's needed -- I just got the name wrong :-)
20:44:36 <stickster> basic_insight_features seems fine for nwo
20:44:37 <stickster> *now
20:46:30 <asrob> ahhh, I completely missed... :)
20:46:37 <asrob> let us start again
20:47:02 <asrob> so, we provide some fixes
20:47:46 <asrob> Features module show us that our insight_basic_features module is overriden, am I right?
20:48:04 <stickster> Yes. If they're fixes to the current Phase 1 bits -- the things in the basic_insight_features directory now -- we'll simply do by recreating, exporting, committing, pushing, and note the ticket number
20:48:18 <stickster> in the git log
20:48:38 <asrob> yeah :)
20:48:48 <stickster> Cool, I think you and I are completely together :-)
20:48:53 <asrob> :)
20:48:57 <stickster> It's harder to write about this than it is to do it :-D
20:49:04 <asrob> ++ ;)
20:49:20 <stickster> OK, let's go for it then
20:49:28 <stickster> Moving on before our hour is up...
20:49:36 <stickster> Any other questions on this?
20:49:41 <asrob> nothing
20:49:43 <stickster> ideas?
20:49:57 <stickster> gripes?
20:50:00 <stickster> :-)
20:50:22 <asrob> negative :)
20:50:49 <stickster> #topic Phase 2 status
20:51:01 <stickster> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Insight_project_plan#Phase_2 <-- current list
20:51:32 <stickster> rbergeron added something for us, a great idea I think. We can discuss next week after the inputs are all done.
20:51:49 <asrob> okay
20:51:51 <stickster> If anyone's got other ideas, we can add them to the list for consideration tool;
20:51:55 <rbergeron> stickster: thanks!
20:51:55 <stickster> argh... *too
20:52:06 <stickster> rock on with your bad self rbergeron
20:52:39 <stickster> #info Any other great ideas for content functions we should consider? Add them to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Insight_project_plan#Phase_2
20:52:44 * jsmith has lots of ideas
20:53:01 <jsmith> stickster: You want them now, or on the wiki, or both?
20:53:12 <stickster> jsmith, On the wiki please :-)
20:53:59 <stickster> Anything else on this topic before we close up then? asrob? bueller?
20:54:06 <asrob> nothing
20:54:16 <stickster> Okey dokey, holding open for 60 sec
20:54:19 <stickster> #topic Open floor
20:55:01 <stickster> #action stickster Make sure next week's agenda includes a brief rundown on Phase 2 ideas, and invite the writers to the meeting to discuss.
20:56:02 <stickster> All right everyone, thanks for coming!
20:56:04 <stickster> #endmeeting