famna
LOGS
01:01:47 <lcafiero> #startmeeting FAmNA Meeting 4-19-11
01:01:47 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Apr 20 01:01:47 2011 UTC.  The chair is lcafiero. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
01:01:47 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
01:02:02 <lcafiero> No, I should probably be pounded, is more like it.
01:02:09 <lcafiero> Anyway, greetings everyone.
01:02:33 <lcafiero> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:NA_Ambassadors_2011-04-19
01:02:35 <VileGent> #meeting-name FAmNA
01:02:43 <lcafiero> There's your agenda
01:03:00 <lcafiero> doesn't startmeeting do that, VileGent?
01:03:06 <VileGent> nope
01:03:24 * rbergeron takes the - out of meeting name
01:03:43 <VileGent> #meetingname FAmNA
01:03:43 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famna'
01:04:11 <lcafiero> #topic Announcements
01:04:24 <lcafiero> Before we take up Scott's nomination, any announcements?
01:05:10 * lcafiero drops a pin
01:05:53 <lcafiero> No other announcements?
01:06:35 * inode0 wishes he had one but doesn't
01:06:41 <lcafiero> Well, OK then
01:07:19 <lcafiero> On to Scott Williams (vwbusguy) then
01:07:33 <mock> oh, that scott
01:07:41 <lcafiero> Indeed.
01:07:59 <lcafiero> Anyway, Scott is my mentee and for the last few years he's been an outstanding ambassador
01:08:09 <VileGent> +1
01:08:48 <lcafiero> He has spoken on many occasions in the Los Angeles area on behalf of Fedora and he has also taken SCALE ownership for the last two years, in conjunction with me.
01:09:13 <lcafiero> I spoke with him at SCALE about whether he'd be interested in being a mentor, and he said he would be.
01:09:37 <lcafiero> So I am proud to propose to FAmSCo that he be made an Ambassador in NA.
01:09:54 <lcafiero> It's FAmSCo's decision, but I'd like an approval from
01:10:00 <VileGent> ???
01:10:01 <inode0> a mentor you mean?
01:10:10 <lcafiero> FAmNA going forward to show that he has the support
01:10:34 <lcafiero> A mentor -- in this case me -- can propose it, but it's FAmSCo's decision, according to kital.
01:10:48 <rbergeron> I thought you wanted to propose that he becomes a mentor
01:10:51 <rbergeron> not an ambassador :)
01:10:54 <inode0> you are proposing to famsco that he be made a mentor
01:10:58 * VileGent makes to motion to support vwbusguy as a NA Mentor
01:11:08 <lcafiero> inode0: correct
01:11:12 <StabbyMc> second
01:11:17 <rbergeron> 18:09 < lcafiero> So I am proud to propose to FAmSCo that he be made an Ambassador in NA.
01:11:23 <rbergeron> ^^ i think that's where we got confused
01:11:25 <rbergeron> :)
01:11:34 <lcafiero> Oh.
01:11:40 <lcafiero> Sorry if I didn't word that right.
01:11:47 * maxamillion is here .... late but here
01:11:48 * VileGent makes to motion to support vwbusguy as a NA Mentor
01:12:01 <lcafiero> For those of you keeping score at home, I'm vwbusguy's mentor AND a FAmSCo member
01:12:13 <lcafiero> I think we have a motion and a second
01:12:19 <jsandys> +1
01:12:27 <VileGent> +1
01:12:28 * inode0 is very confused about what we are doing
01:12:54 <rbergeron> we're motioning that we agree that we like the idea and to send it to famsco for approval
01:13:01 <lcafiero> we're sending a message to FAmSCo that we think that vwbusguy should be a mentor
01:13:03 <rbergeron> I think.
01:13:08 <mock> do only mentors vote?
01:13:10 <lcafiero> that is correct, rb
01:13:23 <lcafiero> No, FAmSCo votes
01:13:48 <mock> well, fwiw, +1
01:13:51 <VileGent> nope all FAmNA ambassadors vote on this motion
01:14:08 <lcafiero> And if there was a quorum at the last meeting, it would have passed, but I was asked to bring it back this week.
01:14:11 * inode0 approves completely of scott becoming a mentor but doesn't think a public vote is needed and in other cases could be awkward
01:14:20 <VileGent> +1
01:14:33 <rbergeron> +1
01:14:35 <lcafiero> Actually, we're not voting on scott's mentorship here, inode0
01:14:45 <inode0> I know
01:15:00 <lcafiero> OK
01:15:01 <VileGent> we are voteing on supporting his nomination
01:15:01 <rbergeron> so if everyone here said -1 it would still go to famsco? :)
01:15:01 <inode0> I don't think we should be voting on anything related to his nomination here is my point
01:15:09 <StabbyMc> So what are we doing then?
01:15:11 <inode0> but I support him and hope famsco does too
01:15:15 <lcafiero> Hypothetically, rbergeron, yes
01:15:54 * lcafiero takes the floor
01:15:54 <jsandys> I'm sure our endorsement helps
01:16:03 <rbergeron> sure.
01:16:09 <rbergeron> I think we're all +1 here, from what I can see.
01:16:47 <maxamillion> I'm with inode0 on this one, I don't understand the point
01:16:56 <lcafiero> OK, this is what we're doing here. We are sending a vote of support for scott williams to become a mentor to FAmSCo, who will vote on it the next time the get a quorum
01:17:26 <VileGent> lcafiero,  it carrys move on
01:17:42 <VileGent> we have alot to cover tonight
01:17:47 <VileGent> I want to welcome SGS  and jrobb  to the meeting
01:17:55 <lcafiero> I'd like to make sure everyone is clear on this, VileGent -- is everyone clear on this?
01:18:23 <lcafiero> Or let me rephrase: Is anyone unclear?
01:18:27 <maxamillion> yeah, I get it
01:18:46 <maxamillion> just don't see the point but please move on because that's not entirely important
01:19:08 <lcafiero> Right. Next time, I think we'll just skip this step and have mentors go directly to FAmSCo.
01:19:10 <lcafiero> Thanks, all.
01:19:13 <lcafiero> OK then.
01:19:57 <lcafiero> #topic Events
01:20:35 <lcafiero> Linux Fest Northwest
01:20:40 <lcafiero> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/LinuxFest_Northwest_%28LFNW%29_2011
01:20:48 <lcafiero> jsandys: want to take this one?
01:21:20 <jsandys> I think we are set, send the box and I'll meet you at the train station
01:21:56 <jsandys> Do you want to pick out some of the SXSW materials for printing?
01:22:14 <lcafiero> Yes, that is on my list of things to do.
01:22:43 <lcafiero> Also, I think we have more booth folks enlisted -- Adam Williamson has signed in since the last meeting.
01:22:52 <lcafiero> I don't think there's much else to report.
01:23:16 <lcafiero> So we can move on to the GNU South
01:23:24 <jsandys> yea to Adam, Tom and Jesse's help
01:23:51 <lcafiero> Yep, I think we can kidnap spot when he gets there :-)
01:24:00 <lcafiero> Anything else, jsandys?
01:24:09 <jsandys> nothing else
01:24:23 <lcafiero> OK great. Thanks, jsandys, for all your help up there in the great northwest
01:24:33 <lcafiero> Meanwhile in Spartanburg . . . .
01:24:38 <lcafiero> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SELF_2011
01:24:51 <lcafiero> rbergeron: is this yours?
01:24:54 <nb> oh we have meeting
01:24:57 <rbergeron> apparently.
01:25:03 <rbergeron> Just a few notes on this one:
01:25:18 <rbergeron> can i get a chair so i can #info a few things?
01:25:20 * lcafiero is glad nb is here
01:25:24 * rbergeron doesn't know if she needs a chair for tha tor not
01:25:37 <lcafiero> I don't think you do, but let me check
01:25:54 <VileGent> lcafiero,  #chair rbergeron please
01:26:09 <nb> I believe info can be done by anyone
01:26:13 <lcafiero> #chair rbergeron
01:26:13 <zodbot> Current chairs: lcafiero rbergeron
01:26:16 <nb> only #agreed and maybe #action require chair
01:26:21 <lcafiero> whew. that was a guess
01:26:39 <rbergeron> #info SELF 2011 planning is just starting. If you are planning on attending, please add your name to the page.
01:26:57 <rbergeron> #info We also have space available for FAD activities on Friday, Saturday, AND Sunday, but we need to reserve that stuff ASAP.
01:27:18 <rbergeron> #info If you have any FAD ideas, please communicate them, I guess either via email on amb-list or on the wiki page.
01:27:22 <VileGent> ke4qqq,  was looking into the sponoring stuff
01:27:35 * rbergeron nods
01:27:36 <rbergeron> hang on
01:27:41 <rbergeron> well, nm
01:27:43 <rbergeron> Ummmmmmmm.
01:27:50 <rbergeron> I have a FAD idea that I'll be proposing.
01:28:02 <rbergeron> But I think we want to avoid the "smorgasboard FAD" that we had last year.
01:28:17 <rbergeron> But we will have a number of fedora speakers there, and spot is keynoting.
01:28:42 <rbergeron> And I need to note that we need all the event box and banner stuff, unless someone wants to file that ticket and such for me.
01:28:54 <rbergeron> But, last year the hotel sold out fairly quickly.
01:28:59 <VileGent> rbergeron,  that has already been taken cared of
01:29:08 <rbergeron> #info Hotel last year sold out quickly - please plan accordingly
01:29:25 <rbergeron> I'd like to get it all settled out by the next meeting - sponsorships for people and so forth.
01:29:42 <VileGent> SGS monk and I will be at SELF
01:29:45 * rbergeron is inquiring quickly about the sponsorship status
01:29:56 <VileGent> SGS mock and I
01:30:29 <rbergeron> well, I'll hear back on that shortly.
01:30:31 * mock chants a fedora chant
01:30:58 <rbergeron> And we likely won't have media, so we'll probably be doing a burn party, I'd expect.
01:31:21 <rbergeron> southern_gentlem: would you like to organize that part? I know you've mentioned it in the past and I have no idea what's required as far as organization / materials / etc.
01:31:30 <rbergeron> err, vilegent ;)
01:31:46 <VileGent> herlo is planning on bringing media with him if ready if not we will have a burn party
01:31:58 <rbergeron> note that booths aren't open Friday, but they are on saturday and sunday, but there are talks on Friday, including jsmith and stickster.
01:32:09 <rbergeron> And talks extend through sunday.
01:32:21 <mock> f15 media won't be available by then?
01:32:23 <rbergeron> So it's a bit longer than last year.
01:32:26 <lcafiero> You might want to set up a machine to make usb keys and have people give you their thumb drives for F15
01:32:34 <VileGent> always do
01:32:39 <rbergeron> Release is 5/24, SELF is june 11thish
01:32:43 <lcafiero> We did that kind of thing one year at OSCON when we were without media.
01:32:52 <rbergeron> mock: so it may be pretty close.
01:33:00 <mock> ok
01:33:24 <rbergeron> #info Media may or may not be available (f15 that is) - herlo will bring some with if it's done, if not, will have a burn party, time/date TBD.
01:33:53 <mock> bring extra laptops for the burn party then?
01:33:53 <rbergeron> That's all I have. I don't know if spevack had anything else he wanted to add, but he's rescuing his broken computer, and if he has anything else he can fill us in.
01:35:16 <VileGent> burn party will start as soon as we know media will not be there
01:35:21 <rbergeron> mock: we shall see :)
01:35:23 <lcafiero> OK, then. This is something that can be discussed on list between now and May 3, correct?
01:35:32 <lcafiero> May 3 = next meeting
01:35:50 <rbergeron> Yes.
01:36:00 <lcafiero> OK then.
01:36:09 * rbergeron notes that there is one more event to discuss briefly
01:36:12 <inode0> ! before we move on
01:36:14 <rbergeron> that's not agendaized
01:36:18 * rbergeron points at inode0
01:36:38 <lcafiero> inode0 - go ahead
01:36:47 <inode0> The Red Hat Summit is in two weeks, so I just wanted to check on where things stand for that now?
01:37:09 <inode0> just anything ambassadors need to help with ...
01:37:49 <rbergeron> inode0: I'd really suggest that maybe we bring that up on the summit-planning list - since jsmith isn't here to help answer.
01:37:56 <rbergeron> I think we need some immediate answers for some folks.
01:38:01 <rbergeron> Including:
01:38:14 <inode0> well, if someone wants an event box and such they better be getting it arranged if they haven't :)
01:38:18 <rbergeron> Do we have anyone needing community-type access badges
01:38:23 <rbergeron> inode0: i have already filed the ticket for that
01:38:34 <rbergeron> vilegent should have that on his list :)
01:38:40 <inode0> ok, good
01:38:42 <VileGent> event box is here at my house tablecloth with get bathed this week and box shipped to boston the first of the week
01:38:52 <inode0> thanks VileGent
01:39:03 <rbergeron> and I think we're going to have some leftover fliers from sxsw on hand.
01:39:04 <inode0> always dependable and on top of things
01:39:10 <rbergeron> since they're already there.
01:39:19 <rbergeron> We have a full-blown booth, and not a table.
01:39:36 <rbergeron> But I'd really like to start seriously talking logistics, if we want to have a fedora dinner or anything like that, etc.
01:39:37 <VileGent> so do you want the v-banners or not
01:39:39 <rbergeron> Since it's *really* soon.
01:39:43 <rbergeron> vilegent: yes please.
01:39:53 <VileGent> added to event page
01:39:55 <rbergeron> Good for a BoF session, as inode0 pointed out to me ;)
01:40:26 <inode0> -1 to dinner unless it is late Monday night :)
01:40:29 <rbergeron> And of course, keeping our fingers crossed for peter. :)
01:40:40 <rbergeron> inode0: you're getting in monday?
01:40:44 <inode0> yes
01:40:53 <lcafiero> OK, can we continue, folks?
01:40:59 <rbergeron> Sure.
01:41:07 <lcafiero> Great
01:41:13 <lcafiero> #topic Discussion of Bids for FUDCon NA (at the request of the FPL)
01:41:44 <lcafiero> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Bid_for_Olin_2012
01:42:08 <lcafiero> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Blacksburg_2012
01:42:18 * inode0 would like to ask jsmith-away what sort of feedback he wants from us on this? anyone know?
01:42:30 <mchua> Consensus-recommendation, I believe.
01:42:41 <lcafiero> #link https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AhtE3PhGXQCndFFhNmtEWEZYY1hQNEZuV05ZTEh3aGc&hl=en&authkey=CLuUobYF#gid=0
01:42:51 <mchua> I think the plan was that it would be discussed here, and then at FAmSCo, and then jsmith would make the decision based on that.
01:43:00 <mchua> ...but I also don't speak for jsmith. :)
01:43:00 * VileGent stepping back but still here if questions need to be answered
01:43:31 <mchua> lcafiero: whoa, nifty. Where do the criteria come from?
01:43:59 <rbergeron> I added the webpage, since someone else recommended using it.
01:44:00 * lcafiero points to rbergeron and says that she made this database.
01:44:10 <rbergeron> Not sure who added that recommendation, but I redid it for NA instead of LATAM.
01:44:14 <lcafiero> I believe jsmith-away recommended the database
01:45:00 <lcafiero> If I am reading the wiki history correctly for the agenda page
01:45:20 <mchua> So, for those reading the logs of the meeting, the spreadsheet is a grid with spaces for points
01:45:24 <mchua> the criteria are:
01:45:30 * VileGent still playing hotels off each other at the moment highest price is $99 per night
01:45:43 <mchua> located in NA, travel costs, local transport, accomodation, venue, safety, cost-transparency, thorough planning.
01:45:54 <mchua> Do we just go through the list?
01:46:01 * inode0 gives both 100 points for being located in NA
01:46:16 <rbergeron> inode0: I think the scale was 1-5 for LATAM.
01:46:23 <rbergeron> And some actually got like, 3 points.
01:46:28 <lcafiero> +1 inode0
01:46:31 <rbergeron> I think it was more about convenience of location.
01:47:03 <rbergeron> And in fact, since we know NA stuff is in NA, maybe it should be "convenience of location", if that's even applicable.
01:47:19 * rbergeron doesn't really know, and didn't really know about the spreadsheet until like an hour ago or so.
01:48:04 * inode0 thinks both sound about equally inconvenient in terms of proximity to airports and facilities for the events - judges that about a wash
01:48:04 <rbergeron> So we can do one of two things here I think:
01:48:05 <mchua> Okay, travel costs?
01:48:28 <lcafiero> One at a time.
01:48:30 <rbergeron> WE can go through the spreadsheet first, and then talk about other points of interest here
01:48:30 <lcafiero> rbergeron:
01:48:52 <rbergeron> lcafiero: okay
01:49:22 <lcafiero> Is that OK with everyone?
01:49:33 * mchua nods, has both bids open here and can throw in reference links
01:49:49 <SGS> +1
01:50:10 <lcafiero> Good. rbergeron do you mind taking the reins on this one?
01:50:20 <rbergeron> Sure.
01:50:33 <lcafiero> Thanks. Go ahead
01:51:19 <rbergeron> Do we all think that the "located in NA" thing is relevant?
01:51:31 <rbergeron> Or do we want to change that to "convenience of location"
01:51:36 <inode0> convenience is relevant
01:51:39 <mchua> convenience to what?
01:51:39 * rbergeron wonders if they meant "location in LATAM"
01:51:56 <mchua> and how does it differ from "travel costs" (since inconvenient places usually cost more to get to)?
01:52:00 <inode0> convenience for those going to great effort to attend by traveling across the country?
01:52:09 <Sparks> convenience to multiple mass transportation options
01:52:31 <rbergeron> Or we can just say "we think all aspects of locatoin are covered"
01:52:44 <mchua> ok, so there's "convenience to get there" and then "cost to get there" - just trying to make sure we're all actually measuring the same thing :)
01:52:46 <rbergeron> and skip that one.
01:53:23 * rbergeron will take a suggestion at any time, and really suggests skipping it since we don't know the implied meaning here.
01:53:38 * inode0 still thinks as a distant traveler that convenience it a wash pretty much
01:53:56 * mchua agrees
01:54:04 * mchua suggests looking at travel costs, where we can actually look at hard numbers
01:54:06 * rbergeron would like to get through this beforethe actual fudcon occurs :)
01:54:09 <rbergeron> okay.
01:54:27 <rbergeron> Travel costs.
01:55:03 <rbergeron> Can we define this as "cost to get to major airport" since we also have local transportation costs, etc.?
01:55:36 <mchua> rbergeron: +1
01:55:46 <mchua> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Bid_for_Olin_2012#Transportation_to_Event
01:56:00 <mchua> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Blacksburg_2012#Travel
01:56:07 <rbergeron> mchua; thanks.
01:56:09 <lcafiero> Thanks, mchua
01:56:26 <mchua> For both of the locations listed by both (from LAX and RDU)
01:56:45 <VileGent> and blacksburg has boston
01:56:45 <mchua> LAX: Olin - $289, Blacksburg - $441
01:56:58 <mchua> VileGent: d'oh, yes, sorry - that's right, each location will have transit to the other.
01:57:24 <mchua> RDU to Olin is $109 and BOS to Blacksburg is $299
01:57:44 <mchua> Mostly because BOS is a bigger airport, I'm guessing.
01:57:48 <VileGent> yes
01:58:22 <inode0> how far is boston to blacksburg compared to boston to toronto?
01:58:27 <mchua> BOS is also potentially more convenient for folks coming from EMEA since there are plenty of direct flights in from major EU airports.
01:58:41 <mchua> inode0: BOS to YYZ was a 12-hour busride
01:58:48 <mchua> BOS to Blacksburg is... mapping...
01:59:07 <mchua> ...12 hours.
01:59:10 <VileGent> about the same
01:59:12 <inode0> I am wondering if a bus could again help save cost and build comradery
01:59:14 <mchua> inode0: equidistant, approximately, in terms of drive time.
01:59:31 <mchua> Depends on how folks felt about the bus last time. :)
01:59:38 <inode0> without that clearly boston is net cheaper for travel costs
01:59:46 <inode0> everyone I talked to enjoyed it
01:59:50 <mchua> there was a Raleigh-to-Boston van for FUDCon 2009
01:59:53 <herlo> RDU is pretty close for international folks, methinks
02:00:02 <herlo> I would suspect a FUDBUS event could happen from RDU
02:00:04 <rbergeron> herlo: yes, it is
02:00:06 <VileGent> and or washington
02:00:11 <VileGent> dc
02:00:17 <herlo> yeah
02:00:50 <mchua> Well, the bus can run in either direction, really - so the fact that busing is possible doesn't change the weighting of either location.
02:00:57 <mchua> But it's an option to keep in mind, certainly.
02:01:09 <herlo> fud bus routes -- (BOS - DC - RDU - Blacksburg) vs (RDU - DC - BOS)
02:01:09 <inode0> no need to bus 60 people from blacksburg
02:01:19 <mchua> well, RDU.
02:01:25 <inode0> or there either
02:01:41 <inode0> it is the westford crowd that makes the bus possible
02:02:13 <herlo> one thing to consider is exposure, VT is a much larger school than olin iirc
02:02:24 <mchua> Almost any school is going to be larger than Olin :)
02:02:28 <herlo> I suspect the CS depts are similarly comparable?
02:02:33 <nb> rbergeron, i'm going to try my best to get media for SELF
02:02:37 <herlo> mchua: indeed, just saying...
02:02:40 <inode0> ok, here is all I want to point out
02:02:40 * nb has a few things to note during open floor
02:02:54 <rbergeron> nb: thanks
02:02:56 <lcafiero> OK, nb, so noted. We're not there yet
02:02:57 <VileGent> well we will proable be sponosred for the space by the MAthematics Dept
02:02:58 <mchua> herlo: although, to even that out, the vast majority of TOS professors we're working with next school year are within a 2-hour drive of Olin.
02:03:02 <jsandys> Other Comment, I would like to see a performance of LLORK at Blacksburg
02:03:04 <inode0> clearly if everyone travels by air or car boston will be significantly cheaper
02:03:22 <rbergeron> Yes, let's stick to just the travel costs atm.
02:03:24 <lcafiero> or train
02:03:30 <rbergeron> Will someone propose some scores for each?
02:03:35 <rbergeron> 5 being best and 1 being worst.
02:03:40 <inode0> a bus from boston to blacksburg would lessen that disparity and might have other good features
02:03:42 <mchua> herlo: so I'd say there may be a larger number of already-ready-to-be activated profs in Boston, although I don't know much about the situation in VA.
02:04:02 <VileGent> i think both get 3s
02:04:24 <mchua> I'm biased, but Boston is nearly half as cheap for airfare.
02:04:31 <herlo> I say this is going to be a toss up and a preference debate anyway
02:05:12 <mchua> And yeah, we could bus everyone from Westford, or we could save even more money by not needing to bus all the Westfordians.
02:05:14 * inode0 thinks it is fair to give boston the nod here on this point - cost of travel is only one factor to consider
02:05:22 <herlo> I'm not a fan of the harsh December / January in Boston. At least with VT, I'd have a chance of warm weather :) (I note this is completely arbitrary)
02:05:34 <sdziallas> Can we please take it one at a time?
02:05:34 <rbergeron> herlo: I think that's for end commentary ;)
02:05:41 <jsandys> We should look at total cost to fedora
02:05:53 <rbergeron> so I'd like to propose that we give blacksburg a 3 and boston a 4.
02:05:55 <rbergeron> And move on.
02:05:57 <herlo> oh, sorry rbergeron
02:06:10 <herlo> jsandys: vs total benefit
02:06:13 <mchua> +1 to rbergeron - that seems fair to me.
02:06:16 <lcafiero> Is that OK with everyone?
02:06:21 <Sparks> +1
02:06:24 <inode0> total cost to Fedora is the FUDCon budget wherever it is :)
02:06:39 <rbergeron> #agreed Transport costs (as in airport to airport): Olin 4, Blacksburg 3.
02:06:42 <herlo> sure, +1 on rbergeron's vote for costs/budget
02:06:48 <rbergeron> Next up: Local transportation costs.
02:06:59 <rbergeron> (if someone can update the spreadsheet forme that would be awesome)
02:07:08 <rbergeron> (since my kids want me to make them spaghettios wihle I type)
02:07:24 <mchua> Ok, so this is "how much does it cost to get from the airport to FUDCon"?
02:07:48 <VileGent> $3 on the smartway bus
02:07:54 <inode0> and any other travel necessary - to fudpub and/or sites used for events
02:08:55 <lcafiero> yes, mchua
02:08:56 * inode0 thinks this spreadsheet is really missing a lot of important stuff
02:09:05 <rbergeron> inode0: i totally agree
02:09:14 <mchua> $10 for an airport shuttle.
02:09:15 <inode0> like what would make location X really great for Fedora's premier event
02:09:28 <rbergeron> inode0: i think we can at least discuss those things at the end
02:09:31 <inode0> which matter more to me that $10 for this or $5 for that
02:09:35 * rbergeron nods
02:09:45 <rbergeron> I don't think the adding it up is the defining decision maker.
02:09:52 <mchua> $2 on the MBTA if we set up ride-sharing (train stop is about 7 miles from campus)
02:10:00 <mchua> inode0: +1
02:10:05 <mchua> Let's try to move quickly through the numbers, then?
02:10:08 <VileGent> i have links for where fudpub will be with links to the catering
02:10:13 * rbergeron is trying ot herd as much as she can
02:10:25 <mchua> (Are we trying to end within the next 50min, btw?)
02:10:37 <dmaxel> lol fudpub :P
02:10:43 <VileGent> mchua,  actually 10 minutes ago
02:10:43 <lcafiero> hahahahaha yes, mchua.
02:10:53 <lcafiero> In fact, we should have ended 10 minutes ago.
02:10:54 <mchua> VileGent: Yeah, I know, just saying. :)
02:11:11 <mchua> Just wondering how long we want to go on, for this.
02:11:36 <lcafiero> I would like to propose that we not go on with this and that a special meeting be set up to take this up.
02:11:41 * rbergeron honestly isn't opposed to proposing having a special meeting
02:11:47 <herlo> I think maybe a mailing list convo
02:11:48 <rbergeron> and work out this spreadsheet business
02:11:48 <VileGent> +1
02:11:53 <herlo> or +1 to rbergeron
02:12:06 <rbergeron> decide if it's even relevant or if we need to revise things
02:12:12 <mchua> Can we set a date by which jsmith will get a FAmNA recommendation?
02:12:17 <rbergeron> Because I think w'ere mostly confused about hte process here.
02:12:37 <mchua> I feel like the decision process has been slipping later and later, and dragging out, and to some extent, we... need to talk about it and make some calls.
02:12:40 <rbergeron> I'm happy to lead a discussion on fudcon-planning about the decision-making stuff.
02:13:18 <lcafiero> could we move this over there, then, as a separate meeting and finish up here?
02:13:28 <lcafiero> move to #fudcon-planning?
02:13:29 <rbergeron> I meant the mailing list.
02:13:35 <lcafiero> Oh.
02:13:48 <rbergeron> or we can go to fudcon-planning and discuss some of the criteria on IRC
02:13:52 <lcafiero> Well, does anyone know when a decision needs to be made, as far as we're concerned.
02:13:59 <lcafiero> ?
02:14:02 <jsandys> Holiday Inn @Blacksburg $126, @Boston Garden $195
02:14:24 <sdziallas> jsandys: ?
02:14:32 <mchua> lcafiero: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_organization_process says "10 months before FUDCon"
02:14:38 <mchua> lcafiero: which, uh, obviously isn't happening this time :)
02:14:43 <jsandys> just some cost info
02:15:05 * inode0 is fine with talking through things - that has to happen sometime and he is sitting here right now :)
02:15:10 <sdziallas> jsandys: the boston garden holiday inn is several tens of miles away from Olin's campus.
02:15:17 <mchua> I'm fine with talking through things.
02:15:20 <jsandys> opps
02:15:37 <mchua> At least those who can talk through things - even if we can't make a recommendation/decision/etc, can lay out info/options for those who do, later.
02:15:39 <rbergeron> lcafiero: I'm happy to take the reins if you need to run.
02:15:48 <dmaxel> just wondering, are there any larger events during the summer when i have time? :)
02:15:50 <lcafiero> I do, actually, rbergeron
02:15:58 * rbergeron really wishes we had had some extra advance planning for this meeting.
02:16:00 <lcafiero> If you would take over, that would be great.
02:16:16 <lcafiero> +1 to extra advance planning, to say the least
02:16:18 <VileGent> jsandys i have room bids of most $99 per nite at THe Inn @ Virginia Tech
02:16:21 <rbergeron> lcafiero: will do.
02:16:26 <lcafiero> thank you.
02:17:00 <lcafiero> rbergeron: not to complicate things but once this is over, there will be an open floor. VileGent knows what to do.
02:17:06 <lcafiero> Elvis has left the building
02:17:14 <rbergeron> So are we agreeing to scrap the spreadsheet and just talk through it?
02:17:16 <rbergeron> For the record?
02:17:19 <sdziallas> +1.
02:17:23 <VileGent> +1
02:17:27 <inode0> yes please
02:17:29 <mchua> +1
02:17:30 <rbergeron> #agreed We are going to talk through the bids and have a reasonable discussion and scrap the spreadsheet.
02:17:38 <rbergeron> Okay.
02:17:44 <jsandys> talk now spreadsheet later
02:17:54 <mchua> I'm taking notes on http://openetherpad.org/fudcon-f16-bid-comparison for the record.
02:18:11 <rbergeron> Do you each want to give a brief statement, or do we have particular points we'd like to discuss?
02:18:27 <VileGent> mchua,  isnt meeting bot good enough for the record
02:19:32 <VileGent> I have been organizing conventions for the last 20 years and i know Blacksburg would be a great location for Fudcon
02:20:43 <rbergeron> mchua, szdiallas?
02:20:55 * rbergeron looks for the points we'd like to discuss, merits of locations, etc, anything
02:20:57 <mchua> VileGent: Meetbot's awesome - I'm taking these notes in a format that's easier for me to read 'em (and they're editable inline, too) and if they're useful to others afterwards, that's great too. :)
02:21:20 * inode0 would like to hear from mchua a bit about how she sees student engagement at Olin benefit FUDCon
02:21:27 <mchua> Okay, I can do that. :)
02:21:36 * inode0 sees how it can benefit Fedora longer term easily
02:21:41 <mchua> Olin as a location has several opportunities I think make it a great FUDCon location.
02:21:52 <mchua> Aside from "hurrah, it's in Boston and Westford people don't have to travel as much."
02:22:20 * inode0 isn't persuaded by proximity to westford :)
02:22:59 <mchua> So, we've been working - for the past... nearly 3 years now - with a group of professors at teachingopensource.org
02:23:14 <mchua> getting their students involved in FOSS, getting them involved in FOSS - basically, how do we clone ctyler and Seneca?
02:23:31 <mchua> A good deal of the active profs are within very close proximity to Boston
02:23:41 <mchua> their students contribute to GNOME, etc.
02:23:51 <VileGent> mchua,  sorry so the rest of the communty should travel because it is closer for redhat employees and get stuck in boston with a Northeaster?
02:24:17 <mchua> and it's at the point where they kinda sorta know what they're doing but it hasn't really caught fire yet, they're excited and they're learning things but they haven't been able to meet anyone, connect up with others doing this sort of work.
02:24:52 <mchua> If we had FUDCon in Boston, all these professors and their students would have it as a *big* milestone during the next school year - you'd see blogging, Fedora activity, students pouring into meetings to get ready, learn about what's going on
02:25:05 <mchua> We've even got a journalism class this year, so there'd be tons of coverage and PR people can take back home
02:25:20 <mchua> VileGent: I'm going to ignore that comment for now. :)
02:25:57 <mchua> A Boston FUDCon wouldn't just ignite the FUDCon - it'd let us tap that energy for the whole 2011-2012 school year, and hopefully these schools would continue their activity past the school year.
02:26:18 * herlo feels some politickin' going on :)
02:26:51 <mchua> Olin as an institution also has a lot of ties to local industry, tech businesses, and the education world, despite its youth and tiny tiny size.
02:27:08 <mchua> herlo: Stop me if I sound too soapboxy. :)
02:27:25 <rbergeron> mchua: so who would be handling al the students and professors?
02:27:33 <inode0> mchua: I understand your enthusiasm for this, I have concern that it might be a disruptive thing to FUDCon business though so if you can help me see the nexus between this and *FUDCon* I'd be happy
02:27:35 <rbergeron> and students pouring into classes and so forth?
02:28:02 <mchua> rbergeron: re: students pouring into classes - it's scheduled right before the spring term resumes, so that's a non-issue
02:28:15 <rbergeron> err
02:28:19 <rbergeron> sorry, students pouring into meetings
02:28:28 <herlo> mchua: what if they *all* show up?
02:28:31 * rbergeron can't type. this is the 14th hour of me working
02:28:39 <mchua> rbergeron: re: handling the students and professors - it's not a massive untrained group that's getting dumped on us at FUDCon
02:29:13 <mchua> these are professors - there aren't an *unthinkable* number of them, say half a dozen schools
02:29:42 <mchua> and a good chunk of them have been watching and/or participating in FOSS for over a year already
02:30:00 <mchua> and we're working with them - workshops, coaching, etc - through the summer and through the school year
02:30:03 <inode0> injecting 50-100 non-Fedora people into FUDCon will cause issues won't it?
02:30:17 <mchua> to make sure they *don't* disrupt the communities they're getting into
02:30:26 <mchua> inode0: that's the thing - they wouldn't be non-Fedora people.
02:30:47 <mchua> they'd be fairly new contributors, but they'll all have been active and around for 3-4 months or more beforehand
02:31:14 <jsandys> will play secretary and update the meeting page on the wiki, once meeting is over
02:31:14 <rbergeron> Are they getting involved *because* there would be a fudcon?
02:31:23 <rbergeron> Or are they getting involved regardless?
02:31:47 <rbergeron> (And are we going to actually be prepping people to deal with a sudden influx of students?)
02:31:50 <mchua> rbergeron: they'll get involved regardless, but I'd predict the level of enthusiasm would be higher if there's a FUDCon.
02:31:52 <VileGent> academic calendar for VT http://www.registrar.vt.edu/registration/11-12_calendar.php
02:32:00 <rbergeron> (/me is haivng flashbacks to allegheny?)
02:32:21 <mchua> rbergeron: Don't think of it as a sudden influx of students, think of it as new contributors who will also happen to be students.
02:32:24 <mchua> rbergeron: Yeah, we learned a lot from that one.
02:32:49 <mchua> Anyway, I don't want to focus overly on the student argument here, but I've spent most of my day today working on professor-stuff so that's where my brain is atm.
02:33:27 <mchua> There are a lot of Fedora contributors in the Boston area, so having other locals around would be a plus.
02:33:34 * sdziallas points out that the Olin Community has already successfully organized the Etherpad FAD, so there's definitely some local to be leveraged here. :)
02:33:45 <sdziallas> and by local, I mean local community.
02:34:03 <mchua> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Etherpad_FAD
02:34:22 * mchua notes that spevack said it was the best FAD page & reporting he'd seen yet
02:34:23 * herlo thinks maybe VileGent could give his stump speech now, for contrast
02:34:31 <mchua> Yeah, I'd like to hear the contrast.
02:34:41 <VileGent> VT is close to raliegh and a REDHAT customer
02:34:59 <VileGent> we have plenty of wireless coverage
02:35:00 <jsandys> two of the best Unix programmers I ever hired came from VTech
02:35:44 <VileGent> all locations are from .1 mile for my proposed fudcon location
02:36:10 <VileGent> we have a local luug who is willing to help
02:36:16 <jsandys> VTech has an active linux group and did I mention L2ORK
02:36:25 <VileGent> we have a dept backing us as well
02:38:07 <VileGent> and of course the people who came out of the NorthEast are the ones where held up in Tempe, where as i was able to fly right home
02:38:37 * inode0 was also stuck in Tempe
02:38:52 <inode0> as he was coming back from Toronto as well
02:38:52 <VileGent> the downside to blacksburg is that it is more remote than Boston
02:39:24 * herlo sees that as a possible plus, personally
02:39:31 <mchua> how's that, herlo ?
02:39:32 <jsandys> +1
02:39:46 * mchua is curious
02:39:50 <herlo> less traffic, hotel costs are lower generally.
02:39:57 <jsandys> focus on conference instead of the sights
02:40:09 <herlo> jsandys: I am, trust me
02:40:15 * inode0 sees advantages too
02:40:36 <herlo> jsandys: haha, I get what you meant now
02:40:36 <jsandys> Is this still the FAmNA meeting, or did it end when Larry left?
02:40:42 <inode0> holding FUDCon in new geographic areas is just good - it spreads the brand and event around to new people
02:40:46 <VileGent> Fubpub is planned for the gaming area like tempe was
02:40:48 <herlo> jsandys: still meeting afaik
02:40:55 <rbergeron> i don't know that needham is really like a sightseeing area :)
02:41:07 <sdziallas> rbergeron: granted :)
02:41:17 * inode0 doesn't go to FUDCon to sightsee though
02:41:28 <rbergeron> I think it's about as smalltownish / less traffic as blacksburg is.
02:42:06 <VileGent> blacksburg is about 60K when classes are in
02:42:07 <rbergeron> szdiallas/mchua: am i right? I'm thinking that they both feel about the same, just that we're flying into a major airport and then driving away from it to get to needham.
02:42:09 <mchua> It's nice to be able to have a bigger campus to wander around in, and draw a campus population from.
02:42:36 <sdziallas> rbergeron: I think you pretty much hit it, yep.
02:42:47 <inode0> Toronto and Tempe I think were both exciting because they weren't the same place we always have FUDCon
02:42:52 <inode0> On the other hand ...
02:42:54 <mchua> rbergeron: Not having seen Blacksburg myself, I'd agree... Needham's not really "in Boston" - it's a few miles from the farthest train stop out.
02:42:55 <VileGent> mchua,  neither is the case for either location the students will be gone (starting to return that weekend)
02:43:19 <inode0> Boston shouldn't be rejected because it was there many times in the past as it does have some builtin advantages
02:43:30 <mchua> VileGent: Okay, so bigger campus then. :)
02:43:33 <inode0> and there might be a unique opportunity this year
02:44:57 <VileGent> link to campus webcams http://www.vtnews.vt.edu/webcams/index.html
02:45:04 <mchua> So, I think it's cool that VT has an active LUG on campus.
02:45:19 <mchua> I don't know if the students from that LUG would be willing to come back early to attend, but that might be a nifty option if so.
02:45:42 <mchua> (Olin doesn't really have much of a LUG - there are FOSS people who know who to swap notes with - but there are lots of local groups in the city.)
02:46:10 <sdziallas> mchua: then again, the FAD was run by Olin folks almost exclusively, with some Fedora folks dropping by.
02:46:22 <VileGent> mchua,  luug members said they would help (they are mainly arch users)
02:46:44 <mchua> Both IT depts (VT and Olin) are RHEL customers, but VT's definitely a bigger one :)
02:46:51 * sdziallas will have to run in 15, has been punting on his paper for way too long already.
02:47:40 <mchua> The Olin laptops all students got used to come dual-booted with Windows and Fedora (now they come with Windows and an empty partition, iirc) - our Linux IT guy made a campus-specific remix every year
02:47:43 <VileGent> and VT is National Known because of our sports teams and would be an advertising plus for RH
02:48:38 <VileGent> top 30 engineering school
02:48:53 * mchua wonders if VT could potentially provide more advertising coverage - on-campus there's a larger population to reach.
02:49:12 <mchua> Off-campus I'm not sure - VileGent, how's VT with national press outreach?
02:49:15 <VileGent> mchua,  that is my plan to use the luug
02:49:58 <VileGent> advertise on campus before the break
02:50:21 <mchua> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_W._Olin_College_of_Engineering#Rankings, fwiw
02:51:04 <jsandys> final topic: I wanted to talk about the SXSW materials.
02:51:17 <jsandys> Please review and comment, I like these but is not well rounded imho
02:51:17 <mchua> Olin's going to not be very effective for on-campus advertising. :) By virtue of showing up on campus, the entire school will already know FUDCon is there, because the campus has... 5 buildings.
02:51:49 <mchua> We do have a killer PR dept, though - http://www.olin.edu/about_olin/media_coverage/ recently.
02:52:19 <mchua> Boston Globe, Wired Magazine, New York Times, Chronicle of Higher Ed, Wall Street Journal, IEEE, USA Today...
02:52:23 <mchua> ...recently.
02:52:24 <inode0> do you have a vision of what these folks will be doing at FUDCon?
02:52:37 <inode0> what will they be working on?
02:52:56 <mchua> inode0: er... was that referring to the LUG at VT?
02:53:01 <inode0> will there be specific things defined later?
02:53:10 <inode0> I'm talking about the Olin group
02:53:17 <inode0> well, and others in that area
02:53:47 <mchua> A bit. Event-specific, there's https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Bid_for_Olin_2012#Special_features
02:54:38 <mchua> In terms of projects for the semester, the journalism class is going to do things like developer interviews, etc. and other classes will be helping with features, bugs, testing... the same sorts of things any other Fedora contributor would do.
02:55:05 <mchua> inode0: but a lot of it is "to define later," right now, yeah
02:55:51 <inode0> I read that before and honestly much of it sounds disruptive to me - but it might inject excitement rather than disrupt in a bad way too
02:56:09 <mchua> I think that really, the key is to think "new contributors" rather than "undifferentiated mass of students."
02:56:29 <mchua> Not all the students are going to come to FUDCon, most likely. The most engaged ones will make the trek.
02:56:55 <herlo> mchua: but it's important to think that way, no matter the location
02:57:32 <inode0> can we formulate a plan to have this eventually end up in a timely FAmNA recommendation?
02:57:33 <mchua> So it's not "1 professor brings 20 new students" - more like "1 professor brings in 5 students to represent the class, and that professor + students have been working with a community member for several months on Fedora, and that mentor is at FUDCon too"
02:57:42 <mchua> inode0: +1
02:57:43 <inode0> I do appreciate all the discussion
02:57:58 <jsandys> inode0: +1
02:58:03 * mchua feels like she's focusing way too much on the "woo, students" stuff and apologizes for that
02:58:03 * rbergeron +1's inode0
02:58:07 <mchua> inode0: +1
02:58:30 <sdziallas> +1.
02:58:43 <herlo> +.98
02:58:47 <inode0> so our next meeting is in the middle of the Summit :(
02:59:07 <sdziallas> Can we have a recommendation w/ comms on mailing list and potentially an extra meeting in a week from now?
02:59:08 <VileGent> mchua,  alot of community members will not go back to boston, thus the reason i proposed the blacksburg bid
02:59:10 <rbergeron> I'd like to suggest athta maybe we arrange a special meeting via the fudcon planning group.
02:59:17 <jsandys> just after LFNW, move to adjourn
02:59:20 <rbergeron> Because TBH, we have what, 4 fadna folks?
02:59:39 <inode0> fadna?
02:59:43 <rbergeron> And I don't think the decision should just be famna folks.
02:59:43 <VileGent> SGS bedtime
02:59:45 <rbergeron> sorry. :)
02:59:52 <rbergeron> Or recommendation, i suppose.
03:00:02 <mchua> I'd add to rbergeron and say discussion on the list might be a good way to start, that way we can have the time to do a more thoughtful discussion
03:00:02 <rbergeron> fesco, anyone sould be able to pop in, imo
03:00:04 <inode0> well, I think famna was asked to make one
03:00:23 * sdziallas needs to run.
03:00:24 <rbergeron> well
03:00:30 <inode0> I don't completely grok why still
03:00:43 * mchua neither
03:00:45 <rbergeron> maybe some advance planning so people know that this particular topic is getting discussed would be helpful, in case they find it more important than regular meeting stuff.
03:00:52 * rbergeron three.
03:00:52 <VileGent> mchua,  how close do you live to olin?
03:00:58 <mchua> VileGent: I live in Raleigh.
03:01:10 <mchua> So, not very. :)
03:01:27 <sdziallas> (still hanging in here)
03:01:34 * inode0 would like to finish this before the end of this month - will agree to anything to do that :)
03:02:01 <VileGent> mchua,  so who do we have local in that area
03:02:06 * sdziallas +1's inode0, would like to have a *decision* from whomever by then.
03:02:12 <sdziallas> VileGent: *waves*
03:02:12 <mchua> inode0: +1
03:02:15 <jsandys> move to adjourn, and those who want more discussion can.
03:02:32 <rbergeron> jsandys: we need to do open floor real quick.
03:02:38 <mchua> Vilegent: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Etherpad_FAD#Physically_Present
03:02:39 <mchua> among others
03:02:46 <inode0> jsandys: you can duck out whenever you need to
03:03:00 <mchua> VileGent: My family lives about 7 miles from Olin's campus, so I visit once in a while.
03:03:11 <VileGent> sdziallas,  do you work at olin
03:03:25 <mchua> VileGent: He studies there. I'm an alum.
03:03:34 <jsandys> just want to publish minutes
03:03:54 <mchua> VileGent: I propose we move this convo to the ambassadors channel so jsandys can wrap :)
03:03:57 <rbergeron> jsandys: I can handle it, unless someone else can, since my whole family is going to kill me soon
03:04:00 <inode0> rbergeron: want to announce a recap, offer another meeting time in the planning channel, and schedule a vote?
03:04:03 <VileGent> yes
03:04:23 <jsandys> +1
03:04:24 <rbergeron> inode0: yes
03:04:26 * inode0 looks desperately for decisive action :)
03:04:42 <rbergeron> #agreed rbergeron to announce a recap, offer another meeting time in the planning channel, and schedule a vote
03:04:52 * sdziallas runs. thx all.
03:04:55 <rbergeron> okay.
03:05:00 * rbergeron is going to open floor real quick
03:05:04 <rbergeron> unless anyone objects
03:05:20 <rbergeron> #topic Open Floor
03:05:25 <rbergeron> anyone have anything?
03:05:34 <jsandys> final topic: I wanted to talk about the SXSW materials.
03:05:44 <herlo> rbergeron: I think everyone left
03:05:51 <herlo> execpt jsandys  :)
03:06:08 <rbergeron> jsandys: go for it
03:06:10 * mchua still here, fwiw
03:06:15 <rbergeron> #chair herlo
03:06:15 <zodbot> Current chairs: herlo lcafiero rbergeron
03:06:21 * herlo hides
03:06:25 <rbergeron> my son just dumped a bucket of sugar, brb
03:06:27 <rbergeron> #chair mchua
03:06:27 <zodbot> Current chairs: herlo lcafiero mchua rbergeron
03:06:30 <jsandys> Please review and comment for next meeting\, I like these but is not well rounded imho
03:06:47 <rbergeron> anyone, please feel free to notate whatever while I clean a disaster up
03:06:50 <rbergeron> sorry
03:08:47 <jsandys> move to adjourn, can the chair do the magic incantation?
03:09:28 <VileGent> herlo,  #endmeeting
03:09:45 <jsandys> peace out
03:10:08 <herlo> #endmeeting