20:02:06 <cwickert> #startmeeting EMEA ambassadors meeting
20:02:06 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Mar 23 20:02:06 2011 UTC.  The chair is cwickert. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:02:06 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
20:03:04 <liknus> #meetingname emea_ambassadors
20:03:04 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'emea_ambassadors'
20:03:15 <cwickert> liknus: ppft
20:03:20 <cwickert> welcome everybody to the EMEA ambassadors meeting
20:03:22 <liknus> cwickert: :)
20:03:26 <jsmith> Thanks cwickert
20:03:34 <cwickert> #chair liknus
20:03:34 <zodbot> Current chairs: cwickert liknus
20:03:53 <cwickert> #topic roll call
20:03:57 <GeroldKa> .fas geroldka
20:03:58 <zodbot> GeroldKa: geroldka 'Gerold Kassube' <gerold@lugd.org>
20:04:00 <liknus> .fas ppapadeas
20:04:02 <zodbot> liknus: ppapadeas 'Papadeas Pierros' <ppapadeas@gmail.com>
20:04:03 <cwickert> Please say your name so we know you are here
20:04:03 <jsmith> .fas jsmith
20:04:06 <zodbot> jsmith: jsmith 'Jared Smith' <jsmith.fedora@gmail.com> - mikejsmith11 'Mike J. Smith ' <mikejsmith11@gmail.com>
20:04:09 <cwickert> .fas cwickert
20:04:10 <zodbot> cwickert: cwickert 'Christoph Wickert' <christoph.wickert@googlemail.com>
20:04:15 <ardian> .fas ardian
20:04:17 <zodbot> ardian: ardian 'Ardian Haxha' <ardian.haxha@gmail.com> - gunma 'Mardian Gunawan' <gunawanmardian@gmail.com> - guardian 'Stephan Kürpick' <guard@gmx.net> - rmsc 'Renato Caldas' <seventhguardian@gmail.com> - dansguardian 'Dansguardian' <dansguardian@linuxmail.org>
20:04:19 <dmaphy> .fas dmaphy
20:04:19 <zoltanh7211> .fas zoltanh721
20:04:21 <zodbot> dmaphy: dmaphy 'Dominic Hopf' <dmaphy@gmail.com>
20:04:25 <zodbot> zoltanh7211: zoltanh721 'Hoppár Zoltán' <hopparz@gmail.com>
20:04:36 <gentth> .fas gentth
20:04:36 <zodbot> gentth: gent 'Gent Thaci' <gentthaqi@gmail.com>
20:05:05 <t2hot> .fas t2hot
20:05:06 <zodbot> t2hot: twohot 'Onyeibo Oku' <twohotis@gmail.com>
20:05:23 <cwickert> ok, thanks everybody for coming
20:05:40 <cwickert> the agenda for todays meeting is at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:EMEA_Ambassadors_2011-03-23
20:06:16 <cwickert> I#d like to remind everybody of the meeting protocol, see https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/IRCHowTo#Protocol
20:06:30 <cwickert> #topic Announcements
20:06:44 <cwickert> ok, here is a quick update on the EMEA media distribution
20:06:54 <cwickert> we had a total of 3118 media
20:07:02 <cwickert> which were delivered last week
20:07:21 <cwickert> we have managed to distribute most of the media
20:07:34 <GeroldKa> ?!
20:07:40 <cwickert> the packages are either on their way or already packaged waiting to be shipped
20:07:45 <cwickert> hold on, GeroldKa
20:07:59 <cwickert> in fact we are running out of media a little
20:08:09 <cwickert> but I will make sure everybody gets what they need
20:08:27 <cwickert> zoltanh7211: you can only get 400 you asked for but not 600
20:08:34 <cwickert> t2hot: you will get 400 as well
20:08:49 <cwickert> liknus: 400 are estimated for Greece too
20:09:10 <cwickert> all upcoming events till mid april have media shipped
20:09:11 <liknus> ok nice :)
20:09:37 <cwickert> and I like to keep 300 media with me for Linuxtag because I guess F15 will be delayed
20:09:45 <cwickert> ok, time for questions
20:09:51 <zoltanh7211> thank you chris
20:09:52 <cwickert> GeroldKa: your turn
20:09:59 <GeroldKa> just a thought, this time very late providing (producing) and shortly before the next release. Imho we need Medias shortly AFTER the release and not shortly before next release; but as I said just my opinion
20:10:02 <GeroldKa> eof
20:10:46 <cwickert> GeroldKa: did you follow the process?
20:10:57 <GeroldKa> what do you mean?
20:11:11 <cwickert> are you aware of the difficulties we had?
20:11:22 <GeroldKa> yes, I am
20:12:25 <cwickert> ok, we all agree on that, so what is the use in stating the obvious here?
20:12:25 <GeroldKa> my idea is in that case
20:12:25 <cwickert> as long as the people in charge are not here
20:12:26 <GeroldKa> as I said
20:12:26 <GeroldKa> it was my personal opinion
20:12:26 <GeroldKa> and i want to say that
20:12:26 <cwickert> ok, what is your idea
20:12:26 <cwickert> ?
20:12:26 <GeroldKa> that's all
20:12:26 <GeroldKa> from my POV
20:12:26 <GeroldKa> I would have another process in generell
20:12:31 <cwickert> tell us more
20:12:46 <GeroldKa> I guess Media are still important everywhere
20:13:01 <biertie> cwickert: is mine on it's way or not? because I have an event this weekend :)
20:13:03 <GeroldKa> not the media itself, but the "professional" look and production
20:13:27 <GeroldKa> we must have the media at the same time, release is announced
20:13:32 <GeroldKa> so maybe it makes sense
20:13:36 <biertie> GeroldKa: +!
20:13:38 <biertie> 1
20:13:38 <cwickert> biertie: please follow the meeting protocol and the guidelines for events, I'll get back to you in a minute
20:13:53 <GeroldKa> to maybe reschedule
20:13:59 <GeroldKa> first media
20:14:04 <GeroldKa> and then announce release
20:14:17 <GeroldKa> and give public FTP free for everyone
20:14:21 <t2hot> !
20:14:35 <GeroldKa> so that you can hand out media to that persons who NEED really a media
20:14:40 <cwickert> GeroldKa: you are aware of the fact that this will slow down development?
20:14:43 <GeroldKa> that's my idea in short
20:14:52 <GeroldKa> why?
20:14:55 <t2hot> ??
20:15:03 <cwickert> the development cycle is 26 weeks
20:15:04 <GeroldKa> nothing is slowed down in that case
20:15:19 <cwickert> media production takes at least 9 days
20:15:29 <cwickert> with shipping two weeks
20:15:54 <cwickert> this means the ISOs must be ready 2 weeks before Fedora can be released
20:16:05 <cwickert> and during this time nothing can happen
20:16:12 <cwickert> not even bugfixes
20:16:23 <GeroldKa> why?
20:16:29 <GeroldKa> if I install it now
20:16:40 <GeroldKa> I have to download tons of updates
20:16:47 <GeroldKa> why not the same here?
20:16:55 * t2hot wonders why we're having this discussion
20:16:58 <cwickert> right, and with the delay of 2 weeks it will even be more updates
20:17:01 <GeroldKa> RC1 will be produced and shiped out
20:17:07 <liknus> GeroldKa: I think that this is not a meeting to discuss releng
20:17:46 <GeroldKa> I'm not discussing releng
20:17:47 <cwickert> ok, lets take a look at the schedule
20:17:48 <GeroldKa> I'm start discussing processes to get SWAG and/or media
20:17:52 <GeroldKa> sorry
20:17:55 <GeroldKa> eof
20:17:55 <cwickert> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Schedule
20:18:09 <cwickert> the final RC is composed on May 3rd
20:18:14 <cwickert> then it is tested
20:18:23 <cwickert> and then we have a go/nogo meeting
20:18:35 <cwickert> only after this has happened we know the release date
20:18:45 <cwickert> and if we can use the ISOs or not
20:18:52 <cwickert> understood?
20:19:24 <cwickert> we also need to prepare for release, this means mirrors must get populated and so on
20:19:29 <cwickert> this takes another 3 days
20:19:42 <GeroldKa> there is nothing more to add from my side; thanks
20:20:07 <cwickert> so from May 3rd till release on 17th is effectively only 5 days or something
20:20:16 <cwickert> not enough to produce media
20:20:44 <cwickert> GeroldKa: I agree we need to start media production earlier, for example with the artwork
20:20:48 <inode0> !
20:20:55 <cwickert> but we cannot delay a release just because of the media
20:21:08 <cwickert> ok, t2hot, then inode0
20:21:21 <t2hot> nothing much to add
20:21:27 <cwickert> ok, inode0
20:21:40 <t2hot> not done sir
20:21:44 <cwickert> sorry
20:21:49 <inode0> we can get the images to the vendor before release if we are really well prepared to get the media as soon as possible
20:22:12 <inode0> that requires cooperation on several levels
20:22:15 <inode0> eof
20:22:53 * t2hot is now done ...eof
20:23:03 <cwickert> ok
20:23:09 <cwickert> so lets summarize
20:23:19 <cwickert> we all agree we'd like the media ASAP
20:23:36 <cwickert> we can start with artwork and try to get the images from rel-eng
20:23:50 <cwickert> but we cannot delay a release for the media
20:23:55 <cwickert> does everybody agree?
20:23:59 <inode0> +1
20:24:03 <zoltanh7211> +1
20:24:04 <ardian> +1
20:24:06 <liknus> before that we also need budget approval and tickets in RH EMEA ready
20:24:06 <GeroldKa> -1
20:24:12 <liknus> +1 for me on the rest
20:24:18 <jsmith> +1 from me
20:24:23 <jsmith> !
20:24:23 <dmaphy> +1
20:24:39 <gentth> +1
20:24:39 <cwickert> liknus: yes, max said he will approve it earlier
20:24:46 <cwickert> jsmith please
20:24:47 <liknus> cwickert: nice
20:25:00 <jsmith> If I have to drive to Raleigh and beat Max over the head, I'll make sure we have the PO in place for media before GA
20:25:06 <jsmith> eof
20:25:29 <cwickert> jsmith: thanks for the offer, but I guess nobody wants max to be beaten
20:25:37 <liknus> jsmith:  well before GA
20:25:42 <liknus> we have a schedule for that
20:26:08 <GeroldKa> !
20:26:17 <cwickert> GeroldKa: go ahead
20:26:39 <GeroldKa> sometimes it makes sense to rethink about a process or a schedule if it's a proper way
20:26:56 <GeroldKa> eof and nothing more from myself to that issue
20:27:04 <jsmith> !
20:27:07 <t2hot> !
20:27:32 <cwickert> GeroldKa: so what is your proposal? you want the release to wait for a call from mediabit in munich? what about the other regions?
20:28:33 <cwickert> ok, jsmith, then t2hot
20:28:35 <GeroldKa> Christoph, to be honest to everybody and the meeting
20:28:45 <GeroldKa> let's maybe discuss this later in open floor
20:28:50 <cwickert> ok, agreed
20:28:59 <GeroldKa> and go forward with the 2important scheduled" issues
20:29:15 <jsmith> Just a heads up -- FESCo approved an exception for NM 0.9 today, which means the schedule will slip at least one more week.
20:29:27 <jsmith> Please keep that in mind as we're discussing schedules
20:29:28 <jsmith> eof
20:29:44 <cwickert> jsmith: thanks for the info, this means that F15 will not be ready for LinuxTag Berlin
20:30:03 <cwickert> #info F15 will slip one more week, this means that F15 will not be ready for LinuxTag Berlin
20:30:08 <jsmith> cwickert: Unfortuantely, that's correct :-(
20:30:11 * jsmith is not very happy about it
20:30:34 <cwickert> #agreed media production needs to start earlier and we'll try to get the images from rel-eng, but we cannot hold up the release until media are ready
20:30:45 <cwickert> t2hot: you also on media? otherwise we go on...
20:31:19 <t2hot> I wait for Geroldka  case @ open floor eof
20:31:25 <cwickert> ok
20:31:33 <cwickert> #topic F15 media production
20:31:42 <cwickert> so we should plan early for F15
20:31:56 <cwickert> I hope we'll have the multi-desktop DVD for F15
20:32:02 <liknus> we should already push POC of media
20:32:12 <cwickert> liknus: ?
20:32:32 <liknus> http://rbergero.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-15/f-15-ambassadors-tasks.html
20:32:50 <liknus> We need to push 3 things until next week
20:32:52 <cwickert> can we follow the meeting agenda?
20:33:04 <liknus> cwickert: it is in the topic
20:33:19 <cwickert> well, schedule is another topic on the agenda
20:33:45 <liknus> F15 media is controlled by it cwickert :)
20:33:57 <cwickert> liknus: what exactly do you mean by "POC for media"?
20:34:49 <liknus> production coordinator
20:34:52 <liknus> media wrangler
20:34:53 <cwickert> I see
20:34:59 <cwickert> ok
20:35:23 <cwickert> does anybody volunteer for doing the media wrangler? otherwise I'll do it for a second time
20:36:11 <cwickert> ok, let me put it different
20:36:17 <liknus> you were excellent on that :) I am +1 for cwickert :)
20:36:21 <cwickert> is everybody happy with me as the media wrangler?
20:36:26 * t2hot ... a rhetoric, heheh
20:36:26 <gentth> +1
20:36:35 <cwickert> t2hot: ;)
20:36:36 <zoltanh7211> cwickert: ++++1
20:36:39 <ardian> ++1
20:36:49 <cwickert> zoltanh7211: ok, you get 500 media now ;)
20:36:50 <GeroldKa> yes, you all get again one who "get shit done" :-)
20:37:13 <cwickert> #agreed cwickert will be the F15 media wrangler
20:37:19 <t2hot> what's your problem GeroldKa???
20:37:26 <cwickert> ok, back to the actual media production
20:38:03 <zoltanh7211> !
20:38:03 <cwickert> we need to vote on quantities of media so I can request the budget from FAmSCo
20:38:11 <cwickert> zoltanh7211: go ahead
20:38:40 <zoltanh7211> just a suggestion: not only media wrangler - else swag too if possible
20:39:18 <GeroldKa> rofl
20:39:28 <GeroldKa> but also +1
20:39:37 <GeroldKa> one wrangler to fit all
20:39:45 <cwickert> zoltanh7211: this will become a part time job then
20:39:52 <cwickert> but I'll do what I can
20:39:56 <cwickert> back to the toic
20:39:59 <cwickert> topic
20:40:17 <cwickert> for F14 we have 3000 media
20:40:39 * t2hot thinks cwickert is taking on too much
20:40:51 <cwickert> and paid ~ 2376 EUR
20:41:00 * cwickert diggs the numbers for F13
20:41:19 <jlaska> win10
20:41:24 <jlaska> oops :(
20:41:32 <cwickert> for F13 we paid 3857 EUR
20:41:58 <zoltanh7211> !
20:42:09 <cwickert> for 5000 media
20:42:14 <cwickert> ok, these are the numbers
20:42:32 <cwickert> we generally have a budget of up to 5000 EUR
20:42:42 <cwickert> and this time we want to try something new
20:42:51 <cwickert> the multi-desktop dual arch DVD
20:43:06 <cwickert> in fact we wanted to try this already for F14, but it was blocked by the board
20:43:22 <cwickert> if we do it, we only need ONE media to rule them all
20:43:26 <cwickert> and can save money
20:44:14 <cwickert> I don't have the quotes yet
20:44:32 <cwickert> but I wanted to ask you if we want to do try the multi desktop media a 2nd time
20:44:41 <GeroldKa> ?
20:44:50 <t2hot> +1
20:44:52 <cwickert> zoltanh7211, then GeroldKa
20:45:21 <gentth> +1
20:45:36 <zoltanh7211> so the the money what we have left - we will have multi desktop DVD's?
20:45:50 <ardian> +1
20:46:12 <cwickert> zoltanh7211: there is no money left, we cannot use money from one budget for something else
20:46:28 <cwickert> because we only have one purchase order
20:46:50 <zoltanh7211> ok, eof
20:46:51 <cwickert> and this was last year because the financial year ends Feb 28th
20:47:00 <cwickert> GeroldKa: your turn
20:47:05 <GeroldKa> can we verify that every people who will get that media will be able to use it? Or what is the intension for that multi-desktop dual arch DvD? Is that the need and request of our target audience? Sorry if it looks like I have a bad day and request everything?!
20:47:24 <GeroldKa> and before you start asking; yes I had a very bad day 8at work) :-P
20:47:50 <cwickert> GeroldKa: it's not a problem that you ask, but we discussed all these things already back in october last year
20:47:56 <cwickert> long story short
20:48:08 <cwickert> we don't need to ship different media through EMEA
20:48:18 <cwickert> we don't need to worry about the architecture
20:48:23 <cwickert> we save money
20:48:31 <cwickert> we do something new and innovative
20:49:17 <dmaphy> i like this idea
20:49:25 <cwickert> GeroldKa: imagine you are in Graz and you only have GNOME left but people want KDE. what do you do?
20:49:38 <t2hot> +1 again (are we still first in this area?)
20:49:55 <dmaphy> as long the media will work with "usual" dvd-rom drives
20:50:48 <cwickert> dmaphy: there are a few disc creators that cannot burn Dual Layer, but practically every DVD drive can read them
20:51:10 <cwickert> but we are not talking about burning media here, we are distributing them
20:51:12 <dmaphy> well.. then, why not? :)
20:51:15 <cwickert> ok
20:51:29 <cwickert> if soembody still has questions, please read
20:51:31 <cwickert> #lin http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Cwickert/MultiDesktopDVD
20:51:38 <cwickert> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Cwickert/MultiDesktopDVD
20:51:53 * cwickert gives people 2 minutes to read....
20:51:56 <cwickert> then we vote
20:53:03 <t2hot> my browser is still trying to open it .... 2mins unrealistic :)
20:54:07 <cwickert> ok, question number one: do we want to try the dual layer dvd?
20:54:13 <cwickert> and question number 2
20:54:26 <cwickert> do we still want install dvds
20:54:37 <cwickert> I think yes, but first lets vote on one
20:54:48 <cwickert> should we do the multi desktop spin?
20:54:53 <zoltanh7211> +1
20:54:55 <underscores> +1
20:54:56 <dmaphy> +1
20:54:58 <cwickert> +1 (obviously)
20:55:04 <gentth> +1
20:55:06 <ardian> +1 for the first question
20:55:10 <jsmith> +1
20:55:25 <liknus> +1
20:55:40 <cwickert> #agreed we want the Multi-Desktop Spin for F15
20:56:06 <cwickert> ok, do we still want traditional install DVDs or only livemedia?
20:56:11 <cwickert> +1 for install DVDs
20:56:17 <jsmith> +1 for install DVDs
20:56:23 <gentth> +1 for install DVDs
20:56:37 <cwickert> because the livemedia have some problems, they don't allow custom installs
20:56:38 <jsmith> (as the multi-desktop DVD contains essentially live images)
20:56:40 <liknus> +1 for DVD installs
20:56:47 <dmaphy> +1
20:56:48 <ardian> +1 for install DVDs
20:56:49 <GeroldKa> +1 for install DvDs
20:56:54 <zoltanh7211> +1 but bit lower amount
20:57:13 <cwickert> #agreed we also want traditional install DVDs and not only the livemedia
20:57:25 <cwickert> zoltanh7211: ok, good point
20:57:38 <cwickert> media are usually made in batches of 1000
20:58:18 <cwickert> how about 1000 install DVD 32 bit, 1000 install DVD 64 bit and the rest is multi-desktop spins, say 3000
20:58:35 <ardian> sounds good
20:58:38 <underscores> sounds good to me
20:58:42 <cwickert> just a rough guess, I still need to get the exact numbers
20:59:16 <gentth> exact number for the another 1000 multi-desktop spins!?
20:59:41 <cwickert> gentth: I suggested 3000, but this is open to discussion
20:59:48 <gentth> ok
20:59:55 <zoltanh7211> +1 if we'll know the correct amount, but 1:1:3 sounds great
20:59:55 <gentth> sounds good to me
21:00:01 <cwickert> #action cwickert to get quotes for 1000 install media in 32 and 64 bit and the Multi-Desktop Spin from mediabit company
21:00:25 <cwickert> perhaps we can also combine the install DVDs, 32 and 64 bit on one disc
21:00:50 <zoltanh7211> possibly
21:00:52 <cwickert> because we have an exiting new feature: isolinux will automatically pick the right arch depending on your computer
21:00:53 <t2hot> sounds good
21:01:11 <cwickert> and you can still select 32 or 64 manually
21:01:13 <GeroldKa> how much is the price for such a media?
21:01:21 <GeroldKa> do you have any glue?
21:01:53 * t2hot ... exiting then glue ... funny day
21:01:54 <cwickert> GeroldKa: slightly higher than for the normal DVD, but because of the larger number, it is roughly the same
21:02:15 <cwickert> I'll get the quotes and we discuss the details next week, ok?
21:02:59 <cwickert> ok, on we go
21:03:12 <cwickert> #topic Ambassadors schedule
21:03:16 <cwickert> #link http://rbergero.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-15/f-15-ambassadors-tasks.html
21:03:33 <cwickert> as you can see we are just in time
21:03:46 <cwickert> "Regional Team Meetings and Select POC for Swag/Media production" - done
21:04:05 <cwickert> "Regional Teams Submit Funding Request For Swag/Media Production" - I'll do this after this meeting
21:04:16 <liknus> excellent :)
21:04:21 <cwickert> #action cwickert to file a budget request for the media production
21:04:25 <zoltanh7211> cool
21:04:51 <cwickert> liknus: any news from FAmSCo? how about "FAmSCo heads Ambassador Wide Meetings Preparing For Fedora 15" and "FAmSCo and Regional teams call for Preparation of Media/SWAG"?
21:05:19 * cwickert notes that we'll come to swag later
21:05:30 <liknus> the first one is already underway
21:05:51 <liknus> media was today a topic (and will be on regional meetings this or next weeks worldwide)
21:06:06 <liknus> and swag for EMEA is a bit stalled (waiting for credit cards)
21:06:08 <liknus> eof
21:06:16 <cwickert> yes, I'll get to that
21:06:32 <cwickert> #topic Events
21:06:43 <cwickert> last weekend there was CLT
21:06:49 <cwickert> nice event, yada yada yada
21:07:00 <dmaphy> yep, indeed :)
21:07:00 <cwickert> you can ready about it on the planet
21:07:28 <cwickert> and we have LinuxTag coming up
21:07:45 <cwickert> I've written an invitation and it caused some confusion about funding
21:07:53 <cwickert> if somebody has questions, please ask
21:08:41 <cwickert> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/LinuxTag_2011
21:09:12 <jsmith> !
21:09:19 <cwickert> #info if you want to attend LinuxTag, please add yourself in the wiki. if you need funding, file a ticket and add "cwickert" as CC. for more info ask cwickert
21:09:25 <cwickert> jsmith: yes please
21:09:50 <jsmith> I've received yet another email from the LinuxTag organizers, asking for someone to speak on Fedora in the distributions track.  Any volunteers?
21:09:53 <jsmith> eof
21:10:09 <cwickert> jsmith: I have already volunteered :)
21:10:18 <jsmith> cwickert: Awesome, thanks :-)
21:10:41 <cwickert> #info if you file a ticket for funding, you only need to request funding for travel. hotel is handled by the linuxtag organizational team
21:10:53 <ardian> that's awesome
21:10:59 <cwickert> jsmith: I might have to talk about gnome-shell then :( uuuhaaaa
21:11:08 <cwickert> anyway, lets go on
21:11:25 <cwickert> #topic Fudcon Bids
21:11:47 <cwickert> the bidding peroid is closed and we have 3
21:11:58 <cwickert> Dublin (Gerold Kassube and Fabian Affolter)
21:11:59 <jsmith> !
21:12:07 <cwickert> Budapest (Zoltan Hoppar and Jörg Simon
21:12:24 <cwickert> Milan (Francesco Crippa plus other italian Ambassadors)
21:12:37 <cwickert> jsmith: go ahead
21:12:48 <jsmith> Didn't we also receive a bid from Zurich again?
21:13:10 <jsmith> #info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Bid_for_Zurich_2011
21:13:35 <cwickert> interesting
21:13:40 <GeroldKa> ?
21:13:43 * jsmith would love to schedule a meeting to pick the location
21:13:43 <cwickert> has this been announced?
21:13:44 <jsmith> eof
21:13:57 <jsmith> cwickert: It was announced on the fudcon-planning list on March 10th
21:14:07 <GeroldKa> Wasn't it standing policy that no country get it twice?
21:14:20 <cwickert> GeroldKa: right, twice in a row seems odd
21:14:24 <jsmith> Not that I know of
21:14:32 <jsmith> It does seem a bit odd, but I don't know of any rule against it
21:14:59 <cwickert> well, in the past we even had a rule to not do the same country again
21:15:02 <cwickert> at least in EMEA
21:15:23 <inode0> !
21:15:32 <cwickert> #info Fudcon bidding period is closed and we have 4 biddy: Budapest, Dublin, Milan, Zurich
21:15:37 <cwickert> inode0: yes please
21:15:40 <inode0> wasn't it in Berlin 3 years in a row?
21:15:50 <GeroldKa> one time
21:15:55 <GeroldKa> and not a second
21:16:07 <GeroldKa> please don't mix FUDCon and FAD
21:16:07 <inode0> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon <- is wrong?
21:16:10 <GeroldKa> :-)
21:16:19 <cwickert> inode0: nope, this was Linuxtag, this has nothing to do with FUDCon. there only was one FUDCon attached to LinuxTag
21:18:03 <cwickert> inode0: well, 2 of the events were just Fedora tracks as part of LinuxTag. we had a devroom there and called it FUDCon, but just for getting more visitors
21:18:04 <inode0> that page tells me FUDCon Berlin in 2007-2009 - if that is incorrect please fix it for the record
21:18:04 <cwickert> take a look at the individual pages and the schedules
21:18:05 <cwickert> one room, 6 talks, you can hardly call this a FUDCon
21:18:39 <inode0> Ok, I wasn't there and I hope you can see why I thought it was in Berlin 3 years in a row
21:18:53 <cwickert> yes, I do
21:18:59 <jsmith> ?
21:19:12 <cwickert> but it was just marketing and only 1 real fudcon
21:19:20 <cwickert> jsmith: go
21:19:47 * t2hot is worried ... laptop will be out of juice in 10mins (no power here)
21:20:02 <jsmith> I hate to make this meeting longer, but can we pick a time that EMEA Ambassadors + liknus + FPL + FESCo representative can meet to decide winning location for FUDCon EMEA 2011?
21:20:35 <cwickert> jsmith: I think this is famsco business
21:20:49 <cwickert> they will do an evaluation
21:20:55 <cwickert> so this is not on us to decide
21:21:02 <cwickert> so lets move on, ok?
21:21:06 <jsmith> cwickert: In times past, it's been FAMSCo + FPL + Max
21:21:27 <cwickert> ok, but nothing for us today
21:21:32 <jsmith> cwickert: This time, Max asked to be taken out of the loop, and some of the ambassadors suggested that FESCo be involved as well
21:21:40 <cwickert> #topic Swag
21:21:49 <jsmith> Since I have many of the EMEA ambassadors here, I'd like to at least schedule a meeting
21:21:52 <jsmith> eog
21:21:55 <jsmith> eof (sorry)
21:22:29 <liknus> I am sorry all, I have to leave
21:22:40 <cwickert> again, FAmSCo has experience with this, they did it in the past, so I suggest to let them schedule the meeting
21:22:50 <cwickert> back to swag: the overall swag situation is bad in EMEA
21:22:51 <liknus> I will do
21:22:56 <cwickert> we hardly have any swag left
21:23:09 <liknus> #action liknus arranges the FUDCon EMEA bid pick meeting
21:23:09 <cwickert> and have no money to produce new
21:23:10 <liknus> ok?
21:23:12 <cwickert> ok
21:23:17 <liknus> thanks all
21:23:22 <liknus> i will go through the logs
21:23:28 <liknus> thanks cwickert for chairing this
21:23:32 <cwickert> we need credit cards in order to produce swag
21:23:56 <cwickert> otherwise we'll have to pay in advance and wait for reimbursement
21:24:02 <cwickert> and this takes quite some time
21:24:28 <cwickert> any ideas here?
21:25:01 <jsmith> Short of having Max open purchase orders, I know of no other simple solution
21:25:36 <cwickert> purchase orders suck, we've seen that with the media and now again with the sponsoring of CLT
21:25:50 <cwickert> but there was at least some progress with the credit cards
21:26:06 <cwickert> I know that kital has been sent the documents
21:26:29 <cwickert> #info some progress on credit cards, but we still need a bank account
21:26:49 <ardian> We don't have a bank account ?
21:26:52 <jsmith> cwickert: From everything I've learned, having access to a bank account is going to be impossible
21:26:59 <ardian> yup
21:27:11 <cwickert> ardian: not the ambassadors because we don't have a legal entity
21:27:22 <jsmith> cwickert: I'll continue to push for it, but I don't expect any change
21:27:36 <cwickert> jsmith: I know, lets not discuss this here now
21:27:42 <cwickert> one more thing on swag
21:27:43 <jsmith> cwickert: +1
21:27:43 * t2hot is leaving ... low battery.  This is embarrasing. Be good Gerold, lets move forward.
21:27:56 <ardian> Is the problem that we don't have enough money ?
21:27:57 <cwickert> I need help with the swag tracker
21:28:13 <cwickert> ardian: we can get money but need to wait to long
21:28:48 <cwickert> #info cwickert needs help with the swag tracker, please help him by going through the tickets and pick the ones you can serve
21:29:00 <cwickert> and there is a page for new swag ideas now
21:29:10 <cwickert> #lin https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors:Swag
21:29:18 <ardian> ok
21:29:25 <cwickert> please do not yet add content, this is still work in progress
21:29:45 <cwickert> for the future, we gather all swag there: who has it and so on
21:30:06 <cwickert> #topic Budget
21:30:15 <cwickert> there is a few budget items we need to approve
21:30:21 <cwickert> one is GeroldKa's CheatCubes
21:30:27 <cwickert> GeroldKa: still with us?
21:30:39 <GeroldKa> it's not my cheatcube
21:30:50 <GeroldKa> I wanted to have that swag for CLT
21:30:54 <GeroldKa> and for Graz
21:30:54 <dmaphy> typo in the link-command above
21:30:56 <GeroldKa> and linuxtag
21:30:56 <cwickert> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_collateral#Fedora_Cheat_Cubes
21:31:01 <GeroldKa> and LinuxSolution
21:31:03 <GeroldKa> and much more
21:31:26 <cwickert> GeroldKa: it's yours because you are driving it forward
21:31:47 <cwickert> hahaha (SCNR)
21:32:27 <cwickert> GeroldKa: how much of these do you want to produce and how much budget it that?
21:33:23 <cwickert> GeroldKa: ?
21:33:31 <GeroldKa> I put the prices to the ticket for which you advised me
21:33:46 <cwickert> ok, but the quote has different numbers
21:33:56 <cwickert> 1000 for 1265 EUR
21:34:08 <cwickert> 5000 for 2025 EUR
21:34:21 <cwickert> 10.000 for 3000 EUR
21:34:28 <cwickert> I don't think we need 10.000 ;)
21:34:32 <GeroldKa> that's right
21:34:39 <cwickert> but 5000 seems reasonable to me
21:34:41 <GeroldKa> with the numbers :-)
21:34:42 <dmaphy> not yet ;)
21:35:00 <cwickert> GeroldKa: what do you suggest? 5000?
21:35:19 <GeroldKa> I have no idea yet
21:35:21 <cwickert> as you can see 1000 is very expensive
21:35:24 <GeroldKa> but I kno
21:35:32 <GeroldKa> s/kno/know
21:35:51 <GeroldKa> on every event you will go, every second will have one
21:36:11 <GeroldKa> so 5000 can be thrown away in a week at Linuxtag e.g.
21:36:21 <GeroldKa> Linuxsolution has also 10k visitors
21:36:42 <cwickert> so make a proposal please
21:36:50 <cwickert> do you suggest to do 10.000?
21:37:05 <GeroldKa> Christoph, to be honest, I have really no idea
21:37:16 <GeroldKa> but 10k seems a huge amount to produce and pay
21:37:16 <cwickert> ok, lets try a different approach
21:37:24 <GeroldKa> I guess 5k will be enough to start
21:37:40 <cwickert> people, do you like the CheatCubes? Should we produce some?
21:37:47 <cwickert> +1 to CheatCubes
21:37:53 <zoltanh7211> !
21:38:03 <cwickert> one thing I like about them is that people have something to play
21:38:10 <cwickert> and this will catch attraction
21:38:20 <cwickert> they can build them at the Fedora booth
21:38:21 <ardian> yup +1 CheatCubes
21:38:35 <cwickert> zoltanh7211: yes please
21:39:17 <zoltanh7211> I have 1k order between tickets, and liknus will cover the costs
21:39:36 <zoltanh7211> 500 german and 500 english by Ritter
21:39:50 <cwickert> sorry, I don't understand
21:39:52 <dmaphy> +1 for the cheatcubes
21:40:26 <GeroldKa> it's that easy cwickert
21:40:42 <GeroldKa> Pierros has approved that zoltanh7211 is able to produce 1k
21:40:53 <cwickert> 1k of what?
21:40:59 <GeroldKa> and guaranteed that he will be payed
21:41:04 <GeroldKa> cheatcube
21:41:05 <cwickert> wtf?
21:41:18 <cwickert> can we first vote *if* we want them and then how much and where to buy?
21:41:49 <GeroldKa> to be honest; are you FAMSCO chair?
21:42:11 <cwickert> no, but the famsco chair cannot decide this either I guess
21:42:34 <GeroldKa> as you can read, he has
21:42:38 <cwickert> so, who wants CheatCubes?
21:42:44 <GeroldKa> am i wrong zoltanh7211 ?
21:42:51 <ardian> +1 CheatCubes
21:42:59 <dmaphy> +1
21:43:21 <GeroldKa> +1
21:43:31 <cwickert> +1
21:43:39 <gentth> +1
21:43:49 <cwickert> #agreed we want Fedora CheatCubes
21:44:06 <cwickert> zoltanh7211: can you give us more details about your quote?
21:44:40 <zoltanh7211> yes - I did it, and made samples too what has been sent to liknus and to Gerold
21:44:59 <cwickert> zoltanh7211: numbers please
21:45:23 <zoltanh7211> right now the order is 1000 pcs 72 HUF/ sheet, with VAT is 90 / sheet
21:45:31 <cwickert> in EUR?
21:45:52 <zoltanh7211> totally for 1000 is cca 350 EUR
21:46:14 <cwickert> zoltanh7211: this is way cheaper
21:46:31 <cwickert> GeroldKa: did you see zoltanh7211s? how was the quality
21:46:32 <cwickert> ?
21:47:19 <cwickert> I think our FAmSCo chair has just made us waste time and money
21:47:34 <cwickert> If zoltanh7211s are cheaper, we should have ordered more
21:47:48 <GeroldKa> it was another produktion and another qualtity and weight
21:47:56 <cwickert> but either way, two people put work into that
21:48:07 <cwickert> I feel we cannot decide this today, sorry
21:48:35 <cwickert> I'd like all parties involved, this is zoltanh7211, GeroldKa and liknus to discuss this together
21:48:58 <GeroldKa> pictures are here: http://geroldka.fedorapeople.org/cheat/
21:49:03 <cwickert> GeroldKa: we cannot approve your budget request now if we get something much cheaper
21:49:53 <GeroldKa> maybe we can produce it also in VRC much cheaper than in Hungary
21:50:05 <GeroldKa> should I ask for a quote?
21:50:08 <zoltanh7211> GeroldKa: VRC?
21:50:13 <GeroldKa> China
21:50:13 <cwickert> #action zoltanh7211, GeroldKa and liknus to discuss the CheatCubes again to avoid confusion and frustration
21:50:41 <cwickert> does anybody think we should approve one or the other budget now?
21:51:11 <cwickert> zoltanh7211: do you have a ticket in FAmSCo's trac?
21:51:29 <dmaphy> too difficult to decide without having seen both
21:51:29 <cwickert> zoltanh7211: and did you already order or did you just ask for a quote?
21:51:40 <cwickert> dmaphy: agreed
21:51:52 <dmaphy> thus the people who have seen those should decide
21:51:53 <cwickert> -1 for making a decision tonight
21:52:30 <cwickert> #info FAmSCo chair must not approve items that have not been discussed by the regional teams yet
21:52:44 <cwickert> hope he reads this in the summary
21:53:39 <cwickert> hello people, are you still there?
21:53:46 * rbergeron can see you typing
21:53:47 * ardian is here
21:54:02 * gentth is here
21:54:09 * dmaphy also
21:54:39 <cwickert> I think it's hard to make decisions when only a few people are present
21:55:11 <cwickert> nevertheless I'll give it a try
21:55:15 <cwickert> #topic Funding for sending Gerd to YAPC::Europe
21:55:22 <ardian> yes can we make a decision next time ?
21:55:22 <dmaphy> well, we have almost two hours of meeting now... not that i'd say this is a problem ;)
21:56:00 <cwickert> dmaphy: we are almost through the agenda and if people followed the meeting protocol, we'd be faster
21:56:12 <zoltanh7211> cwickert: it has been ordered, and the company awaiting the first half amount
21:56:22 <cwickert> damn
21:56:30 <cwickert> this really sucks
21:56:43 <cwickert> anyway, lets move on
21:57:05 <cwickert> I'd like to send our parrot and rakudo maintainer to Riga to the european perl conference
21:57:31 <cwickert> and requested a budget of 600 EUR for it
21:57:44 <cwickert> I don't know why the ambassadors need to approve this
21:58:01 <cwickert> because he is not an ambassador and the event is not an ambassador's event either
21:58:14 <cwickert> but max said the ambassadors are to decide
21:58:34 <GeroldKa> who's Gerd?
21:58:37 <cwickert> so is everybody happy with granting the funding for Gerd?
21:58:53 <cwickert> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Gerd
21:59:19 <cwickert> GeroldKa: Gerd is maintainer of rakudo, parrot and rakudo star
21:59:43 <cwickert> rakudo and parrot was a feature of F12
21:59:49 <dmaphy> +1
21:59:54 <cwickert> and rakudo star was a feature of F14
22:00:04 <zoltanh7211> +1
22:00:06 <cwickert> I think he deserves a little from us
22:00:12 <ardian> ^^ +1
22:00:35 <cwickert> sending someone to this conference also shows that we care about our people and care about perl
22:00:53 <cwickert> and it gives Gerd the chance to meed with many of his developers
22:01:04 <cwickert> because he also is the release manager of rakudo
22:01:04 <zoltanh7211> ...and we could have important feedback
22:01:13 <gentth> +1
22:01:22 <cwickert> ok, +1 fro mme as well
22:01:28 <ardian> yes fedora stands for friends :D
22:01:32 <ardian> friends help each other
22:01:37 <cwickert> anybody not happy with giving money to a non-ambassador?!
22:02:37 <cwickert> I take this as a no
22:02:54 <cwickert> #agreed we'll provide funding of 600 EUR for Gerd
22:03:09 * inode0 thinks this is both a really nice thing to do and something that will benefit for Gerd and the Fedora Project
22:03:10 <cwickert> #topic Open Floor
22:03:22 <cwickert> anything for open floor?
22:03:34 <cwickert> otherwise I'll close the meeting in 3 minutes
22:04:45 <ardian> cwickert, I have a question about the funding for LinuxTag
22:05:08 <cwickert> ardian: yes please
22:05:30 <ardian> How does the procedure go
22:05:51 <cwickert> ardian: did you read the wiki pages?
22:05:56 <ardian> yes
22:06:17 <ardian> I wrote a ticket and cc you too
22:06:24 <cwickert> ardian: what exactly is your question then?
22:06:38 <cwickert> ardian: you did right, now you need to wait
22:07:20 <ardian> ok, cause if "I get" something I have to look for a visa
22:08:39 <cwickert> how long does this take?
22:09:39 <ardian> Hmm I never had to get one so I guess to 3 weeks maybe
22:09:52 <gentth> 30 days before depart
22:09:58 <gentth> for short visits visas
22:10:16 <cwickert> gentth: ok, good to know
22:10:25 <cwickert> anyway, we'll notify you in advance
22:10:35 <cwickert> I think that's all
22:10:41 <cwickert> thanks everybody for coming
22:10:42 <ardian> yes thank you
22:10:46 <cwickert> #endmeeting