22:00:55 <rbergeron> #startmeeting Fedora 15 Alpha Go/No-Go Meeting
22:00:55 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Mar  2 22:00:55 2011 UTC.  The chair is rbergeron. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
22:00:55 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
22:01:10 <rbergeron> #meetingname Fedora 15 Alpha Go/No-Go Meeting
22:01:10 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_15_alpha_go/no-go_meeting'
22:01:36 <jsmith> Howdy all!
22:01:46 <rbergeron> jsmith, jlaska, dgilmore, anyone else interested: meeting time :)
22:02:02 * Viking-Rawhide *
22:02:16 * jsmith is here
22:02:21 * nb 
22:02:29 * red_alert 
22:02:34 <dgilmore> rbergeron: hola
22:02:42 <Viking-Rawhide> rbergeron arent you supposed to be home sick :|
22:02:44 <adamw> yo
22:03:13 <rbergeron> viking-rawhide: I work from home.
22:03:18 <rbergeron> So, well, that's how that goes.
22:03:23 * heffer 
22:03:31 <rbergeron> Even when I feel like a butt, like I do now, I'm still here.
22:03:36 <rbergeron> Anyway.
22:03:47 <rbergeron> #chair jsmith
22:03:47 <zodbot> Current chairs: jsmith rbergeron
22:03:53 <rbergeron> #chair adamw dgilmore
22:03:53 <zodbot> Current chairs: adamw dgilmore jsmith rbergeron
22:04:13 <rbergeron> #topic To Go, or not To Go.
22:04:20 <rbergeron> We're trying it again this week, folks. :)
22:04:26 <rbergeron> We're deciding if Alpha is ready to go.
22:04:29 <rbergeron> Criteria are:
22:04:37 <rbergeron> 1) Have all the tests been run
22:04:46 <rbergeron> 2) Are there open F15 Alpha bugs
22:05:00 <rbergeron> Questions or comments before we proceed? :)
22:05:14 * dgilmore votes for go
22:05:16 <dgilmore> :)
22:05:20 <rbergeron> #topic Have the tests been run?
22:05:25 <rbergeron> Hey now, I'm just following protocol ;)
22:05:46 <jsmith> adamw, jlaska: Status update on testing?
22:05:51 * nirik arrives late.
22:05:58 <rbergeron> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_15_Alpha_RC2_Desktop
22:06:10 <adamw> yo
22:06:14 <adamw> matrices look pretty good
22:06:43 <rbergeron> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Test_Results:Fedora_15_Alpha_RC2_Install
22:06:45 <rbergeron> They do.
22:06:49 * jsmith is happy
22:06:58 <adamw> my live install fail is hardware-specific
22:07:03 <adamw> not big enough to make alpha
22:07:14 <dgilmore> adamw: we dont support your hardware :)
22:07:26 <adamw> we have fails for cmdline and serial_console, tests which are marked as alpha, but we'll talk about that as we hit the bug list
22:07:43 * jlaska here now
22:07:47 <jsmith> OK, sounds good
22:07:51 <rbergeron> #chair jlaska
22:07:51 <zodbot> Current chairs: adamw dgilmore jlaska jsmith rbergeron
22:07:59 <rbergeron> Okay.
22:08:12 <rbergeron> So: We're agreed that the tests have been run, and things look good.
22:08:28 <rbergeron> #agreed Tests matrices look good, Alpha is ready to go on that front.
22:08:38 <rbergeron> #topic Open Blocker Bugs
22:09:16 <rbergeron> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=f15alpha
22:09:43 <rbergeron> adamw or jlaska: take us through the two bugs on this list?
22:09:50 <adamw> sure
22:10:06 * jlaska notes ... adam has the mic
22:10:10 <adamw> #topic https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=681167
22:10:27 <adamw> sooo...if you do a serial console install, you can't log into it. pretty straightforward issue.
22:10:42 <adamw> i am -1 on this on the basis that we really don't give a crap about serial install at alpha stage.
22:10:45 <jlaska> and there is an element of "sometimes" to this
22:10:53 <Viking-Rawhide> -1
22:10:57 <jlaska> or rather ... not all the time.
22:11:04 <heffer> -1
22:11:08 <adamw> i believe we previously had 'serial' and 'telnet' as supported methods at alpha and that's why the tests are marked as alpha level, but we changed it...jlaska, do you remember the same?
22:11:17 <jlaska> Agreed ... and this is consistent with our prevous ... yes :)
22:11:19 <adamw> or am i screwing up again
22:11:38 <adamw> jlaska: side note - we should raise a ticket for adjusting the install test matrix
22:11:45 <jlaska> I don't recall if we adjusted the test priority ... I'll make a note to review that
22:12:02 <jlaska> #action jlaska - review serial install test priority (should it be alpha, beta)?
22:12:13 <jlaska> I know that telnet is gone, and resting comfortably
22:12:19 * jlaska gets back on target
22:12:22 <dgilmore> i dont see this as a alpha blocker
22:12:29 <rbergeron> me either.
22:12:40 <adamw> there's a similar issue here we should probably consider together with it, btw
22:12:43 <dgilmore> jlaska: we added ssh right
22:12:45 <jlaska> it's annoying, and halfline has identified the problem and we expect to have something in updates-testing soon
22:12:51 <adamw> the cmdline install fail, which is a similarly 'marked alpha' test
22:12:57 <jlaska> dgilmore: we did not, but should
22:12:58 <fenrus02> vast majority of users do not do a serial install.  this should not really be a blocking item yet imho.
22:13:16 <jlaska> adamw: I think we have enough votes on this one then?
22:13:23 <adamw> yeah, i think so
22:13:29 * nirik doesn't see it as a blocker for alpha either.
22:13:30 <dgilmore> jlaska: ok, anaconda does do ssh now though right?
22:13:32 <rbergeron> yup.
22:13:37 <dgilmore> replacing telnet?
22:13:42 <fenrus02> dgilmore, when passed 'ssh' param, yes
22:13:43 <adamw> for cmdline install - which is a non-interactive install method which just prints info as it installs - we have a couple of issues too
22:13:44 <jlaska> dgilmore: doesn't replace telnet no
22:13:51 <adamw> again, jlaska and i don't think that should be an alpha blocker
22:14:05 <adamw> we're working on a criterion explicitly covering kickstart and non-interactive installs atm
22:14:12 <dgilmore> adamw: ok
22:14:14 <jlaska> dgilmore: it's slightly different ... you don't drive the install over the ssh session, you can just ssh in and gather debugging info
22:14:18 <adamw> soo, i think we're #agreed not a blocker on this?
22:14:26 <jlaska> agreed
22:14:28 <rbergeron> Yes.
22:14:30 <dgilmore> adamw: correct
22:14:36 <red_alert> agreed
22:14:53 <rbergeron> #agreed BZ 681187 is NOT a blocker
22:15:01 * adamw will update bug
22:15:08 <rbergeron> #action adamw to update bug
22:15:16 <rbergeron> I was about to ask. Youre awesome. ;)
22:15:21 <rbergeron> adamw is da maz
22:15:23 <rbergeron> man, even
22:15:25 <rbergeron> Okay.
22:15:41 <rbergeron> Next bug is: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=681290
22:15:57 <adamw> #topic https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=681290
22:16:16 <jlaska> rbergeron: I think we should use #agreed for that (re: adamw is da maz) :)
22:16:17 <adamw> so, if you encrypt a partition using non-ASCII characters, you can't decrypt it on boot.
22:16:21 <rbergeron> lol
22:16:45 <adamw> well, slightly more complex than that
22:16:51 <adamw> it affects characters which have to be composed using dead keys
22:16:51 <dgilmore> adamw: it sounds like its just one character
22:16:58 <adamw> dgilmore: i think it's ^^^
22:17:02 <Viking-Rawhide> -1
22:17:06 <jlaska> yeah, it may be
22:17:16 <adamw> so, my thinking on this
22:17:25 <dgilmore> adamw: ok  he said that some worked and just the one triggerd the bug
22:17:28 <adamw> we only just accepted a much more obnoxious key layout issue as a blocker (the one we slipped for)
22:17:39 <brunowolff> This one seems to have a work around and could be listed as a common bug.
22:17:40 <dgilmore> but i dont know enough about the layout he is using
22:17:41 <adamw> dgilmore: yeah, i think he said the ones that work are 'typed directly' (i.e. not composed)
22:17:51 <adamw> this one is a lot less icky than that one
22:17:55 <adamw> you have to encrypt, in the first place
22:18:06 <dgilmore> adamw: right
22:18:14 <dgilmore> i think commonbugs it and move on
22:18:15 <adamw> so i'm -1 on this, we can document it
22:18:21 <dgilmore> maybe make a test for beta
22:18:24 <heffer> -1
22:18:24 <adamw> don't encrypt, or use ASCII characters to encrypt
22:18:27 * rbergeron nods
22:18:31 * jsmith is OK w/ that
22:18:32 <jlaska> adamw: basically, we don't have complete criteria around keymap/lang issues yet ... so this doesn't necesarily break any alpha criteria?
22:19:30 <adamw> sorta
22:19:37 <adamw> we don't really explicitly deal with keymap issues at all
22:19:46 <adamw> so we're always in a grey area when dealing with them currently
22:19:59 <adamw> the criterion here is "The installer must be able to complete an installation using the entire disk, existing free space, or existing Linux partitions methods, with or without encryption enabled "
22:20:00 * jlaska nods
22:20:19 <adamw> the problem is, we don't have any definition of how we deal with the intersection between such criteria and keymaps
22:20:31 <adamw> we can make this much better if we think a bit about it and adjust the criteria appropriately
22:20:49 <adamw> it may be a slightly different change than just adding a new criterion, we may want to change something else...but we can discuss that async
22:20:52 <jlaska> we have the "in most cases" wild card clause to fall back to for this, no?
22:21:06 * Viking-Rawhide thinks we should not deal with any keymap breakage in alpha but in beta instead...
22:21:10 <adamw> that criterion doesn't actually say 'in most cases'. so really it's just a case of the criteria being inadequately drafted in the face of reality.
22:21:13 <dgilmore> jlaska: in most cases you can decrypt
22:21:25 <adamw> i think we'll wind up adding a general statement about keymap issues or something, rather than actually touching the criteria.
22:21:39 <jlaska> adamw: nm ... I'm talking about a different criteria
22:21:45 <jlaska> yeah
22:21:50 <adamw> yeah, the 'must boot to a' blahblah one.
22:21:59 <jlaska> you got it
22:22:09 <jlaska> Viking-Rawhide: that may be what we end up with
22:22:09 <adamw> i can see a few places where i could rewrite criteria a bit to require less interpretation, i should get on that.
22:22:11 <adamw> anyhoo
22:22:18 <adamw> everyone's -1 on this, right?
22:22:23 <dgilmore> yes
22:22:28 <rbergeron> yes
22:22:32 <red_alert> yes
22:22:35 <Viking-Rawhide> yes
22:22:37 <adamw> #agreed 681290 is not a blocker, impact is too limited and easy workarounds available
22:22:52 <rbergeron> Note in common_15_bugs?
22:22:57 <jlaska> yes!
22:22:59 <dgilmore> yes
22:23:00 <Viking-Rawhide> yup
22:23:07 <jlaska> I think I added CommonBugs already ...
22:23:16 <rbergeron> Thank you.
22:23:23 <rbergeron> Okay.
22:23:26 <jlaska> ...confirmed
22:23:37 <rbergeron> #topic Are we a go? :)
22:23:43 <rbergeron> Blocker list is clean, test matrices look good.
22:23:47 <rbergeron> Does anyone have any objections?
22:23:49 <adamw> qa is +1 go go go.
22:23:57 <dgilmore> releng is +1 to go
22:24:03 <jsmith> FPL is +1 to a go
22:24:04 <Viking-Rawhide> get it out of here go go go ....
22:24:28 <heffer> go :)
22:24:32 <rbergeron> #agreed F15 Alpha RC2 is declared GOLD.  Woot.
22:24:41 <dgilmore> huston we have lift off
22:25:00 <red_alert> can't we declare it oil? could make us rich with the current oil prices :D
22:25:11 <rbergeron> Um... have you seen the recent gold prices? lol
22:25:16 <rbergeron> #topic Remaining Alpha Tasks
22:25:17 <red_alert> no :D
22:25:23 <dgilmore> red_alert: we would make people mad for giving oil away
22:25:49 <rbergeron> dgilmore: Are you all set to start staging to mirrors, etc?
22:25:50 <jlaska> #info adamw and jlaska will do the usual sweep of CommonBugs? items and document as needed.  Help always welcome!
22:25:56 <dgilmore> rbergeron: yep
22:25:59 <rbergeron> Yes, CommonBugs was my last question.
22:27:03 <brunowolff> Getting updates out soon would be nice, some of us need to get things into stable in order to do builds of other packages.
22:27:11 <jlaska> ++1
22:27:16 <heffer> ack
22:28:20 <nb> brunowolff, you could always file a buildroot override request
22:28:25 <dgilmore> brunowolff: that will be happening in the next hour
22:29:01 <brunowolff> Isn't that dangerous during the freeze?
22:29:11 <rbergeron> dgilmore: when are you starting the staging?
22:29:39 <brunowolff> In my case I need the gcc update for a bug fix and that could have had an impact on other builds.
22:30:38 <dgilmore> rbergeron: ill probably do it tonight
22:30:48 <rbergeron> Okay.
22:31:00 <rbergeron> #info dgilmore to likely start staging mirrors tonight
22:31:03 <rbergeron> #topic Any other business?
22:31:34 * jlaska has nothing
22:31:46 * Viking-Rawhide got nothing
22:31:52 * jsmith has nothing, except for a big thank you to everyone for participating
22:32:16 * Viking-Rawhide well that's not entirely correct I got bacon....
22:32:29 <jlaska> agreed (on the particpation, not the bacon)
22:32:33 * red_alert is looking forward to wrestle with beta blockers already ;)
22:32:47 <jlaska> red_alert: I think you've been doing that already :P
22:32:47 <rbergeron> jlaska: Beta Blocker meetings will start this Friday?
22:32:51 <dgilmore> i have nothing
22:32:53 <rbergeron> is that correct?
22:33:15 <red_alert> jlaska: right, but that's just a preview for the bugs to come ;)
22:33:28 <jlaska> rbergeron: looks like it
22:33:34 <jlaska> #link http://rbergero.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-15/f-15-quality-tasks.html
22:33:34 <Viking-Rawhide> has the release scheduled been updated for the weeks delay ?
22:33:42 <Viking-Rawhide> mean week
22:33:58 <rbergeron> It is updated.
22:34:05 <rbergeron> Just not pushed out.
22:34:12 <rbergeron> That's happening like, in a few minutes.
22:34:15 <jlaska> oh okay ... so then first beta blocker review is next week
22:34:35 <jlaska> good ... that gives us time to ... you know, test updates-testing and document
22:35:15 <rbergeron> Actually, I just hit the button, it should be going out now.
22:35:19 <rbergeron> And then I'll update the wiki.
22:35:22 <rbergeron> And we'll be awesome.
22:35:23 <rbergeron> :)
22:35:32 <rbergeron> Okay.
22:35:46 <rbergeron> Well: Thanks for coming all. Note will go out saying we're a go! :)
22:36:20 <rbergeron> #endmeeting