23:00:11 <Sparks> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings
23:00:11 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Sep  1 23:00:11 2010 UTC.  The chair is Sparks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
23:00:11 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
23:00:11 <Sparks> #meetingname Fedora Docs
23:00:11 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_docs'
23:00:11 <Sparks> #topic Roll Call
23:00:16 * Sparks is here
23:00:39 * jjmcd 
23:01:12 * gomix waves
23:01:56 * rudi is here
23:03:13 * jjmcd wonders how many headed to NC to watch the waves
23:03:55 <rbergeron> i am!
23:03:56 <Sparks> jjmcd: Well, Hatteras Island is closed unless you are a resident and Ocracoke Island is closed, period...  so you probably won't get to see any good waves.
23:04:03 <rbergeron> oh, wait, too far :)
23:04:17 * Sparks gives everyone some time to get here.
23:06:00 <Sparks> Okay, lets get started...
23:06:07 <Sparks> #topic Follow up on last week's action items
23:06:22 <Sparks> frostbite will help Gearoid with screen readers and the Accessibility Guide
23:06:41 <Sparks> There was a message on the Docs list from frostbite saying that he was working with him on this.
23:06:54 <Sparks> jjmcd to check on/update/expand process page that bethlynn worked on
23:06:58 <Sparks> jjmcd: Did you work on that?
23:07:04 <jjmcd> yes
23:07:13 <jjmcd> Still coiuld use more feedback\.
23:07:21 <jjmcd> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_workflow_-_beat_writing
23:07:27 <jjmcd> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_workflow_-_beat_writing
23:07:27 <Sparks> Okay.  Care to put that out on the list?
23:07:34 <jjmcd> Already did
23:07:42 <jjmcd> and got a little feedback
23:07:45 * Sparks must have missed it
23:07:52 <jjmcd> But I suspect most haven't had a look
23:08:44 <Sparks> Okay
23:08:54 <Sparks> Sparks to talk with rbergeron and mo about who will handle the Release Announcements
23:09:06 <MostafaDaneshvar> O/ docs-men
23:09:29 <Sparks> And I haven't done that, yet.
23:09:34 <Sparks> #action Sparks to talk with rbergeron and mo about who will handle the Release Announcements
23:09:56 <Sparks> #topic Release Notes
23:10:09 <jjmcd> Not much to report
23:10:12 <Sparks> jjmcd: Okay, what's happening with the Release Notes
23:10:15 <Sparks> No?
23:10:19 <jjmcd> I have begun filling in unclaimed beats
23:10:33 <jjmcd> Certainly welcome anyone to grab anything unclaimed
23:11:00 <jjmcd> The situation isn't all that bad.  Most of the unclaimed beats seem to have little interesting happening
23:11:12 <jjmcd> This week we need to get working on the conversion
23:11:23 <jjmcd> but with mw-render that isn't a big deal
23:11:40 <jjmcd> Proably the toughest part is simply doing the branch
23:11:47 <jjmcd> So that's about that
23:12:29 <jjmcd> questions/comments?
23:12:33 <rudi> jjmcd -- I'll take care of the TN branching --
23:12:39 <jjmcd> thanks rudi
23:12:41 <rudi> I have some ideas to make L10N easier
23:12:59 <jjmcd> cool - I just responded to your spanish post
23:13:00 <rudi> I can also hold your hand for RN branching, but won't do it :)
23:13:17 <rudi> (better that these skills get spread around some!)
23:13:18 <jjmcd> uitstekend
23:13:40 <Sparks> Okay, anything else?
23:13:53 <jjmcd> If anyone wants some experience with mw-render
23:14:01 <jjmcd> I would be happy to teach
23:15:14 <Sparks> heh
23:15:32 <Sparks> Okay, thanks for the update.
23:15:49 <Sparks> #topic Working with non-English sources
23:16:08 <Sparks> This came up this morning on IRC.
23:16:44 <Sparks> I wrote up a process and sent it to the Docs list.
23:16:59 <jjmcd> My main question is what are the odds that the Polish translators are fluent in Spanish
23:17:25 <jjmcd> Requires a whole new skillset of L10N
23:17:30 <gomix> !
23:17:33 <rudi> jjmcd -- they don't need to be; as long as they can refer to an English translation
23:17:55 <Sparks> Which is what my process had in it.
23:17:56 <rudi> remember that the strings are 1:1 in every language
23:18:01 <jjmcd> So Sparks' more complex process is a little closer to reality than yours
23:18:23 <rudi> Except that my suggested process keeps a single source for the doc
23:18:49 <Sparks> But the translator doesn't see the English text to be translated
23:18:54 <jjmcd> Yes, probably no point in a second source
23:18:55 <rudi> The other way, we have two sources that can easily slip out of sync
23:19:14 <jjmcd> Just that probably the English needs to be mostly done for many of the others to progress
23:19:20 <rudi> jjmcd -- indeed
23:19:42 <Sparks> jjmcd: Can you write up the process and include the pretty pictures?
23:19:58 <jjmcd> Sparks!  You haven't mastered dot yet?
23:20:12 <Sparks> jjmcd: I haven't and I also haven't found the time!
23:20:13 <jjmcd> Yes,we can put something together
23:20:30 <jjmcd> Not a lot to learn, really.  Your email is about 90% of it
23:21:18 <Sparks> #action jjmcd to document the process of translating non-English source guides
23:21:39 <Sparks> Okay, anything else?
23:22:05 <Sparks> #topic Guide Status
23:22:23 <Sparks> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_guide_goals_for_F14
23:22:37 <Sparks> Anyone have anything, guide-related, to discuss?
23:22:52 <rudi> All quiet here
23:23:46 <Sparks> heh
23:23:55 <Sparks> Okay, moving on, then!
23:24:08 <Sparks> #topic Outstanding BZ Tickets
23:24:17 <Sparks> #link http://tinyurl.com/lbrq84
23:24:54 <Sparks> #info 93 open bugs
23:24:57 * nb 
23:25:31 <Sparks> nb: Got anything for us?
23:25:45 * nb has something for the end
23:25:49 <Sparks> ok
23:25:53 * nb just got online :)
23:26:13 <Sparks> Anyone have anything regarding bugs?
23:26:35 <rudi> Just a reminder that now is stomping time
23:26:41 <Sparks> Yes!
23:26:46 <rudi> With F14 branching a week away...
23:27:16 <Sparks> Okay, moving on.
23:27:23 <Sparks> #topic Open floor discussion
23:27:29 <Sparks> Okay, anyone have anything?
23:28:13 <Sparks> nb: ?
23:28:26 * nb notes the addition in FAS of an invite only option
23:28:41 * nb proposes making docs-writers and docs-publishers invite only (this just means they need to ask a sponsor for membership)
23:28:50 <Sparks> nb: Yes...
23:28:52 <nb> that it won't make a big queue to clean out of people applying that we've never heard of
23:28:54 <Sparks> I was just going to ask that.
23:29:02 * nb would also go for making docs invite only, but not sure if we want to, but im in favor
23:29:36 <jjmcd> Dunno
23:29:44 <nb> I can set up a message that will show up saying email docs@lists.fedoraproject.org if you want to join
23:29:58 <jjmcd> We've gotten some good folks who applied to docs, then got an email explaining the self-intro thing
23:30:05 <nb> hmm, true
23:30:05 <Sparks> Definitely the docs-writers and docs-publishers
23:30:23 <nb> jjmcd, how about leaving docs normal, and making -writers and -publishers invite only?
23:30:25 <nb> that was my first thought
23:30:31 <jjmcd> Sparks, yes, absolutely, although not as big a win on the mainetntnace side as docs
23:30:40 <nb> yeah
23:30:44 <jjmcd> Yes definitely those 2
23:30:46 <nb> a lot of projects are making invite only
23:30:53 <jjmcd> I'm flop-flopping on docs, tho
23:31:02 <nb> gitfedora-web is invite only, but we are leaving web normal for now, all sysadmin and sysadmin-* are invite only
23:31:05 <jjmcd> I can see both sides
23:31:08 <nb> packager and provenpackager are invite only now
23:31:22 <nb> jjmcd, true
23:31:26 <Sparks> nb: Can you send an email to the Docs list discussing the invite-only for Docs?
23:31:40 <nb> PROPOSAL: Make docs-writers and docs-publishers invite only, discuss the status of docs on the list
23:31:48 <nb> Sparks, true
23:32:07 <nb> Sparks, sure i mean :)
23:32:12 <Sparks> +1 to invite-only for docs-writers and docs-publishers
23:32:35 <Sparks> #action nb to send an email to the Docs list discussing invite-only status on Docs.
23:32:43 <Sparks> Anyone else going to vote?
23:32:57 * nb is +1 of course since he proposed it :)
23:33:01 <rudi> Not sure where I stand on this -- is the queue a problem?
23:33:21 <jjmcd> rudi,  sometimes
23:33:48 <nb> rudi, not really, i just go through it every once in a while and remove everyone who is pending, but then i usually get a few emails because the email that fas sends is badly worded and says that "their membership has been removed"
23:34:04 <nb> and they want to know why, and then i have to email back and say well, you were never approved in the first place, please send us an introduction, etc
23:34:09 <rudi> Ah OK
23:34:26 <rudi> +1 in that case; also because we're moving towards writers=ability to package
23:34:38 <rudi> and this brings us in line with packaging
23:34:52 <nb> jjmcd, i take it that you are +1 to -writers and -publishers invite only from your comments earlier?
23:35:07 <nb> if so, i think its unanimous (unless someone else wants to speak)
23:35:27 <jjmcd> correct
23:35:54 <Sparks> #agreed docs-writers and docs-publishers groups will be set to "invite only"
23:36:10 <nb> they will also have a note on the group page about to email the list if you want membership
23:36:17 <Sparks> #action nb to set docs-writers and docs-publishers groups to invite-only.
23:36:18 <nb> or to email docs-writers-sponsors
23:36:19 <nb> whivhever
23:36:29 <nb> whichever i mean
23:36:43 <Sparks> probably the list
23:36:50 <nb> yeah, that way it goes in the archives
23:37:34 <Sparks> Okay, anything else?
23:37:41 <nb> not from me
23:37:54 <Sparks> Okay, anything else from anyone else?
23:38:34 <Sparks> Well....  that's all I have.
23:38:40 <Sparks> Thanks everyone for coming tonight.
23:38:49 <nb> oh, i need to get with rudi about the website still, a staging branch or something
23:39:07 <Sparks> nb: in -docs after the meeting?
23:39:13 <nb> yeah
23:39:16 <Sparks> rudi:
23:39:24 <rudi> ack
23:39:28 <Sparks> excellent
23:39:38 <Sparks> If there's nothing else...
23:40:12 <Sparks> #endmeeting