23:00:28 <jjmcd> #startmeeting - Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Wednesday_11_August_2010
23:00:28 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Aug 11 23:00:28 2010 UTC.  The chair is jjmcd. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
23:00:28 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
23:00:40 <jjmcd> #topic Roll #topic Roll Call
23:00:42 * jjmcd 
23:00:55 * Gearoid 
23:01:02 * nb 
23:02:01 * jjmcd wonders if nathant is awake, and where is rudi?
23:02:20 * nathant is awake!
23:02:36 <jjmcd> #topic Follow up on last week's action items
23:02:52 <jjmcd> OK, no progress to report on d-p-r
23:03:12 <jjmcd> rrix agreed to work with nathant on the release announcement
23:03:20 <nathant> cool
23:03:26 <jjmcd> nathant, did he contact you?
23:03:29 <nb> jjmcd, what help do you need with d-p-r
23:03:37 <nathant> jjmcd: nope
23:03:51 <jjmcd> OK, I know he saw your draft
23:04:09 <jjmcd> He was away over the weekend
23:04:27 <nathant> Ok cool - there's one or two bits missing, but most of the content is there
23:04:52 <jjmcd> nb, I think I need to do a little polish before calling it soup, but I'm not gonna stress over any of the issues I was concerned with
23:05:13 <jjmcd> I need to review my to-do list on it -- been tied up on other stuff lately
23:05:31 <jjmcd> OK, anything else on last week's action items
23:06:33 <jjmcd> #topic Alpha Release Readiness Meeting tomorrow
23:06:36 <jjmcd> OK
23:06:47 <jjmcd> Does anyone know of anything that will prevent Alpha?
23:07:09 <jjmcd> (We are rarely if ever the blocker but it doesn't hurt to ask)
23:07:52 <jjmcd> OK
23:08:13 <jjmcd> #topic F14 Release Announcement
23:08:26 <jjmcd> This looks like it is going to be a quick meeting
23:08:45 <Gearoid> haha yeah
23:08:53 <jjmcd> nathant, sorry about not getting to you.  I think it was Monday I finally got with rrix
23:09:10 <jjmcd> He was gone over the weekend
23:09:18 <jjmcd> Do you need anything else?
23:09:29 <nathant> np - there's a lot I was able to copy and paste from previous release announcements
23:09:38 <nathant> I think the only thing...
23:09:55 <nathant> is if anyone knows of any other features we could write about!
23:10:24 <jjmcd> I think marketing was supposed to do the talking points last night, so you might take a peek there
23:10:37 <quaid> Marketing is having a similar situation with the talking points ... it 'seems' there aren't as many flashy and interesting things to talk about
23:10:47 <nathant> There may be stuff in the updates to common applications that is missing from the feature list
23:10:47 <quaid> maybe Marketing and Docs could collaborate a bit to dig up some gems?
23:11:01 <jjmcd> quaid, that might make some sense
23:11:06 <quaid> nathant: exactly!
23:11:14 <nathant> quaid: in the meeting last week stickster had an interesting suggestion
23:11:25 <jjmcd> nathant should be hooking up with rrix soon anyway
23:11:38 <jjmcd> We did get a heads-up on a biggie, but not flashy
23:11:38 <nathant> he was thinking that maybe F14 was going to be more about under-the-hood stuff
23:11:59 <jjmcd> Well, and that is worth talking about too, laying the foundation
23:13:08 <jjmcd> I was shocked to hear about man going away - knife through my heart
23:13:21 <jjmcd> But I trust the replacement will be better
23:13:36 <nathant> jjmcd: sorry???
23:13:53 <jjmcd> Well, we'll see if we need to be sorry or not
23:14:02 <nathant> man is being replaced in F14?
23:14:12 <jjmcd> That is what I understand
23:15:00 <nathant> That could be interesting...
23:15:06 <jjmcd> bah - the developer was going to write about it but I don't see anything
23:15:16 <nathant> but perhaps confusing for a few folks
23:16:45 <jjmcd> #action jjmcd and nathant to discuss with marketing other possible talking points
23:17:27 <jjmcd> I would go through the changes but with the alpha RNs dure Friday I can't see squeezing that in
23:17:40 <jjmcd> Anything else on the announcement?
23:18:23 <nathant> nothing from me
23:18:29 <jjmcd> #topic Release Notes
23:18:42 <jjmcd> OK, one-page release notes are up on Friday
23:19:08 <jjmcd> We have some good material in the beats.  Between that and the feature pages, it should be not much more than some editing
23:19:37 <jjmcd> Does anyone have some time tomorrow and Friday to work on these?
23:20:18 <jjmcd> If I could get someone to take point here, it would free me up to perhaps get the change list that we could mine for talking points
23:20:38 <jjmcd> Otherwise I assume I'll do this.  Like the announcement, it is only a single wiki pag
23:21:31 <nathant> jjmcd: what will the release notes page have that the announcement doesn't?
23:21:48 <jjmcd> nathant, probably a little less flash, a little more detail
23:21:56 <Gearoid> i might possibly be free, not sure exactly what is required though so would have to be pointed in the right direction
23:21:59 <jjmcd> But they really are very similar
23:22:42 <jjmcd> nathant - what times of day are you around the channel?
23:23:11 <jjmcd> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_13_Alpha_release_notes
23:23:24 <nathant> Tomorrow I'll probably be online from 1400 UTC ish
23:24:22 <jjmcd> that is actually pretty good I think
23:24:34 <nathant> ok looks like mainly a copy and paste job
23:25:13 <jjmcd> Yeah, it really isn't a biggie
23:25:18 <nathant> does anyone know what kernel F14 is using?
23:25:26 <GadgetWisdomGuru> I think I came in a bit late.
23:25:26 <nathant> it's not mentioned in the feature list
23:25:29 <GadgetWisdomGuru> Where on the agenda are we?
23:25:31 <jjmcd> I think I will be around about the same time you are
23:25:40 <jjmcd> GadgetWisdomGuru, release notes
23:25:58 <jjmcd> We can find out pretty easy, just look in the RC3 ISO
23:26:27 <GadgetWisdomGuru> Okay. I started assembling my Overview part.
23:26:41 <nathant> Ok I can pull the content together
23:26:50 <GadgetWisdomGuru> I'm not 100% sure if how I prioritize the overview portion is how others might
23:27:03 <nathant> I just need someone to go through it and make sure I haven't missed anything
23:27:17 <jjmcd> GadgetWisdomGuru, overview of?  Sorry, not following
23:27:25 <nathant> GadgetWisdomGuru: the alpha release notes are just a single page
23:27:52 <nathant> they're a lot briefer than the final release notes
23:28:11 <jjmcd> OK then.  Tomorrow I'll work on getting a change list but I'll stay nearby in case you need help
23:28:23 <GadgetWisdomGuru> Oh...I misunderstood
23:28:28 <nathant> jjmcd: ok
23:28:32 <GadgetWisdomGuru> I thought it was an 'alpha' version of the release notes.
23:28:41 <jjmcd> No, it is kind of strange
23:28:50 <jjmcd> The Alpha release notes are a single page
23:28:59 <jjmcd> We prepare something close to final for beta
23:29:01 <GadgetWisdomGuru> Understood
23:29:15 <jjmcd> Generally, we don't get all the translations done by beta
23:29:33 <jjmcd> so the difference between beta release notes and final are bug fixes and translations
23:30:15 <jjmcd> That's right, GadgetWisdomGuru you were working on the overview section.  Yes, that is pretty brief for alpha
23:30:33 <jjmcd> In fact, most of it is copied from the previous release ;-)
23:30:50 <GadgetWisdomGuru> I'm new, and just started building the wiki page.
23:31:11 <jjmcd> GadgetWisdomGuru, understood.  Sorry I wasn't connecting the dots quite quickly enough
23:31:44 <GadgetWisdomGuru> No problem.
23:31:49 <GadgetWisdomGuru> i'll learn
23:32:02 <jjmcd> I've been immersed in other stuff and just not 100% on my game.  Plus I'm an old guy.  Yeah, that's it  - senility.  Good an excuse as any
23:32:26 <jjmcd> OK so
23:32:46 <jjmcd> #action jjmcd to work on getting change list up to date so we can mine for talking points
23:33:06 <jjmcd> #action nathant will work on alpha release notes with jjmcd standing by to help as needed
23:33:22 <jjmcd> Does that work for everyone?
23:33:31 <GadgetWisdomGuru> Fine with me
23:33:56 <jjmcd> nathant, are you good with that?
23:34:58 <nathant> works for me
23:35:18 * jjmcd has the release readiness meeting at I think 1300 so I'll be away for that
23:35:26 <nathant> ok
23:36:10 <jjmcd> OK, in rudi's absence, I see no need to visit Publican unless someone has some issue or question
23:37:14 <GadgetWisdomGuru> Only curious about the status of my RFE, but I'll look into that separately
23:37:31 <jjmcd> OK, good.  Because I don't think I can help
23:38:06 * jjmcd wonders whether its a holiday or something in Brisbane.  I noticed ryanlerch is been pretty busy on twitter today
23:38:07 <GadgetWisdomGuru> If it goes through, I think it'll be good for docs.
23:38:16 <jjmcd> cool
23:38:21 <GadgetWisdomGuru> This is the one....
23:38:36 <GadgetWisdomGuru> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=615831
23:39:27 <jjmcd> That does look interesting
23:39:27 <GadgetWisdomGuru> But, moving on...
23:39:43 <jjmcd> #topic Guide Status
23:40:06 <jjmcd> OK, anything to report on Guides?  Anyone need any help?  Any issues?
23:40:13 <Gearoid> yip!
23:40:31 <jjmcd> Gearoid, go
23:40:40 <Gearoid> I think I have almost done all I can do on the accessibility guide
23:40:58 <Gearoid> i need some help though
23:41:04 <frostbite> i will help
23:41:32 * nb thinks the website is ok for the release
23:41:41 <nb> aside from any guide updates that we will publish before then
23:41:49 <jjmcd> cool.  Gearoid, what kind of help?  Can frostbite provide what you need?
23:42:57 <Gearoid> it's mainly with publican and git I need help i think
23:43:19 <jjmcd> Gearoid, OK, that is easy to come by
23:43:19 <frostbite> I'm a blind user so if you need help with orca screen reader i can help
23:43:47 <jjmcd> frostbite, .  We can use that definitely
23:43:50 <GadgetWisdomGuru> Frostbite, are you the guy who does that TWIF program, or is that a different Frostbite?
23:43:58 <Gearoid> ok frostbite, have you ever used kttsmgr? maybe you can help me with that
23:43:58 <frostbite> yes that is me
23:44:06 <GadgetWisdomGuru> Good to know.
23:44:13 <frostbite> is that in kde
23:44:17 <jjmcd> outstanding
23:44:36 <Gearoid> yeah that's in kde
23:44:48 <frostbite> i can give it a try and let you know
23:44:57 <Gearoid> also, I'm not sure whether I should include something about the sugar platform in there
23:45:09 <jjmcd> #action frostbite will help Gearoid with screen readers
23:45:09 <frostbite> i can also check that out
23:45:25 <jjmcd> Wow, I imagine sugar would be real challenging
23:45:38 <frostbite> i've never tried it out but we will see
23:46:05 <Gearoid> with sugar, i don't see a lot of accessibility options yet, but i'm talking about the fact that it makes computing more accessible for children
23:46:16 <Gearoid> who are learning basic skills, etc
23:46:18 <jjmcd> frostbite, I would be interested in how that turns out.  Mostly curious, but it seems to me it would be tough
23:46:27 <nathant> Gearoid: maybe mchua can help you out with sugar
23:46:29 <frostbite> for surgar
23:47:28 <jjmcd> nb, a question I had is whether we will publish the translation drafts to fedorapeople like we did for F13 or to the drafts section of docs.fp.o
23:47:41 <Gearoid> nathant, is mchua in the on the docs project?
23:48:25 <jjmcd> Gearoid, she hangs around the channel a lot, but mostly she does translation, ambassador
23:48:39 <nb> idk
23:48:40 <Gearoid> ok thanks jjmcd
23:48:51 <nathant> Gearoid: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Mchua
23:48:52 <nb> i'd ask rudi
23:49:13 <jjmcd> nb, I'm thinking L10N would prefer the less public space, but yeah, rudi would be the one to make that call
23:49:25 <jjmcd> OK, anything else on guides?
23:49:47 <nathant> (I think she works a lot with sugar)
23:50:16 <frostbite> where should i go to check out the accessiblility stuff that is written so far
23:50:31 <jjmcd> nathant, I seem to have a vague recollection
23:50:45 <jjmcd> Gearoid, do you have a draft on fedorapeople?
23:51:20 <Gearoid> no, i haven't got a fedorapeople acc yet, also not 100% sure on what to do with git
23:51:46 <Gearoid> so haven't submitted any of my changes
23:52:00 <jjmcd> OK, we will need to work with you on that.  It isn't hard.  Probably you want to get the fedorapeople account first
23:52:12 <jjmcd> It gets real handy for this sort of thing
23:52:45 <Gearoid> hmm ok
23:53:05 <jjmcd> e.g. once you build the doc you can put the built version on fedorapeople and then frostbite could check it out.  Whether or not it is checked into git
23:53:32 <Gearoid> ok
23:53:56 <jjmcd> Plus, it's just kind of cool to have your space on fedora
23:54:03 <jjmcd> OK, anything else on guides?
23:54:08 <Gearoid> :)
23:54:36 <nathant> jjmcd: you were saying?
23:55:03 <jjmcd> Oh, back there .. I was referring to mchua / sugar
23:55:09 <nathant> oh ok
23:55:20 <jjmcd> #topic Outstanding BZ Tickets
23:55:39 <jjmcd> We're managing to run the clock down, anyone need any help on bugs?
23:56:11 <jjmcd> #topic Open floor discussion
23:56:47 <jjmcd> Our fearless leader is in the wilds of Maine, FWIW.  He has been kind enough to carry a tracker so we can see where he is
23:56:48 <jsmith> Rock on!  Doc On!
23:56:58 <jjmcd> there ya go jsmith
23:57:16 <jsmith> I don't think I need to say anything else.
23:57:34 <jjmcd> Anyone have anything else for the good of the knights here assembled?
23:57:49 <GadgetWisdomGuru> We shouldn't go to Camelot, it would be too silly?
23:57:56 <jjmcd> jsmith, shouldn't you have some sage words at this point?
23:58:18 <jsmith> Let's see...
23:58:29 <jsmith> My job as leader is to push continual improvement
23:58:41 <jsmith> One vital way to continually improve the project is to improve the people that make up the project
23:58:54 <jsmith> And docs plays a vital role in that personal development
23:58:59 <jsmith> So keep up the good work!
23:59:08 * jsmith wonders if that was sage enough for jjmcd
23:59:18 <GadgetWisdomGuru> Jsmith, I've been looking to upgrade myself. How can you improve me?
23:59:28 <jjmcd> I am personally pleased to see so many new folks coming in and helping
23:59:28 * adamw taps foot, looks at watch
23:59:48 <jsmith> GadgetWisdomGuru: I can't improve you.  Only you can improve you.  I can only encourage you to accept change.  It's you that has to *do* the change.
23:59:56 <jjmcd> Don't forget, OLF in Sep and FUDcon in Jan, opportunities to learn and meet
23:59:58 <jsmith> adamw: You too, eh?
00:00:00 <adamw> or...change the do
00:00:04 <jjmcd> OK< we need to get hustling
00:00:09 <jsmith> jjmcd: Aye!
00:00:11 <jjmcd> Thanks everyone for showing up
00:00:14 <jjmcd> Good meeting
00:00:23 <jjmcd> #endmeeting