14:04:29 <rdieter> #startmeeting kde-sig -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2010-06-22
14:04:29 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Jun 22 14:04:29 2010 UTC.  The chair is rdieter. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:04:29 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:04:40 <rdieter> #topic roll call
14:04:50 <rdieter> #info thomasj_ rdieter present (so far)
14:04:55 <SMParrish> here
14:05:08 * ltinkl is here
14:05:24 <Kevin_Kofler> Present.
14:05:30 <rdieter> #chair thomasj_ SMParrish ltinkl Kevin_Kofler than_
14:05:30 <zodbot> Current chairs: Kevin_Kofler SMParrish ltinkl rdieter than_ thomasj_
14:05:40 * than_ is present
14:05:47 <rdieter> #info SMParrish ltinkl Kevin_Kofler than_ present
14:06:00 <rdieter> #topic agenda
14:06:01 * jreznik is here too
14:06:10 <rdieter> #info jreznik here too
14:06:16 <rdieter> #chair jreznik
14:06:16 <zodbot> Current chairs: Kevin_Kofler SMParrish jreznik ltinkl rdieter than_ thomasj_
14:06:29 <rdieter> so, not much of an agenda yet for today, topic ideas?
14:06:49 <thomasj_> kftpgrabber dewad upstream, remove from Fedora?
14:06:53 <thomasj_> dead*
14:08:04 <rdieter> thomasj_: makes sense
14:08:12 <rdieter> can eol for f14 at least
14:08:25 <thomasj_> Yeah, what i thought as well
14:09:07 <Kevin_Kofler> I'm always against removing stuff that works just fine.
14:09:11 <than_> it seems we don't have any topic for today`
14:09:15 <rdieter> if we have nothing better to do, can discuss removing the legacy QTDIR-setting scripts from qt3 packaging.  heliocastro asked about that a bit earlier in #fedora-kde
14:09:17 <thomasj_> I tried to clean up abrt bugs.
14:09:37 <than_> Kevin_Kofler: +1
14:09:45 <thomasj_> Kevin_Kofler, problem is it crashes and abrt catches it. there are lots of bugreports with no response of upstream since a long time.
14:09:45 <Kevin_Kofler> But if it crashes all the time, that'd be a reason to drop it. ;-)
14:09:51 <rdieter> kudos to thomasj_ and SMParrish for the bz triaging
14:09:59 <rdieter> #info kudos to thomasj_ and SMParrish for the bz triaging
14:10:13 <ltinkl> indeed, great work :)
14:10:20 <SMParrish> Thanks meant to warn you when I did the mass bug update.
14:11:03 <than_> is there any reason why  we remove QTDIR-setting scripts ?
14:11:29 <than_> we still need it for qt3
14:12:03 <Kevin_Kofler> than_: +1
14:12:06 <Kevin_Kofler> It just breaks things.
14:12:24 <Kevin_Kofler> (Removing the stuff just breaks things, I mean.)
14:12:43 <Kevin_Kofler> I don't see what we have to gain from removing QTDIR.
14:13:16 <Kevin_Kofler> Stuff which looks for Qt 4 in QTDIR is really broken and has always been broken. But I don't see anything important doing that anyway.
14:13:33 <Kevin_Kofler> QTDIR is Qt 3 and will always be Qt 3.
14:14:25 <than_> i'm against removing it
14:14:56 <rdieter> than_: some qt4 apps/scripts expect QTDIR to point to qt4, that's why this came up
14:15:27 <rdieter> I figured we consider removing it for qt3, since it's crufty, legacy stuff
14:15:48 <rdieter> the main reason we set QTDIR, is due to our use of non-standard /usr/lib(64)/qt-3.3
14:16:12 <rdieter> if we dropped QTDIR, and moved stuff to /usr/lib(64)/qt3 , most/everything should continue to work
14:16:27 <rdieter> s/work/build/
14:16:44 <Kevin_Kofler> rdieter: Those apps are fixed and need to be broken.
14:16:50 <Kevin_Kofler> QTDIR has never been Qt 4 and will never be Qt 4.
14:16:59 <Kevin_Kofler> Qt 4 doesn't need an environment variable at all.
14:17:03 <rdieter> qt docs still reference QTDIR, fwiw
14:17:15 <rdieter> both qt3 and qt4 ones, though
14:17:19 <than_> rdieter: it looks like a bug in such qt4 apps/scripts!
14:17:59 <rdieter> I could argue the same about the qt3 apps that will ftbfs without QTDIR being set, they have a bug too
14:18:05 <Kevin_Kofler> Uh, I mean "Those apps are broken and need to be fixed", of course. ;-)
14:18:34 <rdieter> but if y'all feel it's too much work, and not worth the pain of fixing the possible fallout, fine
14:18:35 <Kevin_Kofler> rdieter: What else should they use?
14:18:40 <Kevin_Kofler> Qt 4 supports pkg-config.
14:18:48 <Kevin_Kofler> In Qt 3, QTDIR was the documented way to find Qt.
14:18:52 <Kevin_Kofler> Otherwise you can just guess.
14:19:02 <than_> i did not see any4 qt apps which needs the QTDIR so far
14:19:23 <rdieter> heliocastro mentioned hitting at least one earlier in #fedora-kde
14:19:41 <rdieter> that QTDIR pointing to qt3 made it fail to build/run
14:19:59 <rdieter> but I also agree with Kevin_Kofler that's a bug in the app
14:20:25 <than_> yes it's a bug in the qt4 apps
14:20:37 <rdieter> I would just like the qt3 scripts in /etc/profile.d/ to go away in the foreseeable future, but maybe that's not possible (esp with the $PATH munging going on there)
14:21:35 <rdieter> #topic qt3 legacy /etc/profile.d scripts
14:22:02 <rdieter> seems I'm in tne minority, so let's just leave it alone then
14:22:03 <than_> rdieter: qt3 is old and will be removed sometime in the future.
14:22:37 <Kevin_Kofler> Removing the PATH munging will also break Qt 3 builds.
14:22:54 <Kevin_Kofler> than_: I think it's going to stay there for a long time, like gtk+ 1.
14:22:59 <than_> it doesn't make sense to fix thing which  already works
14:23:02 <rdieter> than_: my recent repoquery still showed ~50 pkgs that BR: qt3-devel
14:23:15 <rdieter> sometime in the future... 1 year?  2 years?  more?
14:23:26 <Kevin_Kofler> Indeed, it doesn't make sense to fix something that's not broken.
14:23:58 <thomasj_> ~50 apps, WOW
14:24:09 <than_> i would say qt3 will be obsoleted in 3 years
14:24:17 <Kevin_Kofler> I don't think it will.
14:24:20 <rdieter> ok, ugh.
14:24:33 <rdieter> #agreed qt3 is old/legacy, leave it alone (as is possible) until which time it can be removed from the distro (~3 yrs?)
14:24:42 <Kevin_Kofler> gtk+ 1 is still there and it has been obsolete for what, 5 years? 10 years?
14:24:49 <rdieter> #topic open discussion
14:25:33 <than_> Kevin_Kofler: maybe in 10 year ;-)
14:26:48 <rdieter> oh, rumor has it that kde-4.5-rc1 gets tagged tomorrow, who wants to be the tarball/rpm bot tomorrow? :)
14:26:59 <than_> i think we can remove it if there's nothing depends on qt3 in fedora
14:28:09 <than_> i have not seen any announce on the KDE maiiling list yet
14:28:31 <jreznik> rdieter: I'll see tmrw, I'm busy but I'll try to help
14:28:40 <rdieter> the release schedule has it for tomorrow, but we'll see.
14:28:48 <rdieter> otherwise, I can help with bot-duties as well
14:29:20 <rdieter> #info kde-4.5-rc1 tagging scheduled for Jun 23
14:29:44 <rdieter> anything else?  if not, I'll close meeting here in a minute or 2
14:31:51 <rdieter> sounds like not, thanks everyone
14:31:54 <thomasj_> Looks like, call it a meeting :) Everyone watches France losing the last game ;)
14:31:54 <rdieter> #endmeeting