15:03:14 <quaid> #startmeeting Summer Coding SIG :: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Summer_Coding_SIG#Agenda
15:03:14 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed May 19 15:03:14 2010 UTC.  The chair is quaid. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:03:14 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:03:34 <quaid> howdy folks
15:03:51 <Shrink> hey
15:05:05 <quaid> ok, I'm going to quickly check back on the tasks, then move on to the important stuff
15:05:24 <quaid> #topic Task round-up -- adding tasks from last week(s) review on list
15:05:29 <quaid> #link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/summer-coding/2010-May/000089.html
15:05:51 <quaid> #task Build a stand-alone site that is a single entrance page, more
15:05:55 <adimania> sorry for being late
15:06:06 <quaid> #task Build a stand-alone site that is a single entrance page, more professional, at fedoraproject.org/summer-coding.
15:06:22 <quaid> oh, wait
15:06:24 <quaid> it's action!
15:06:26 * quaid fixes
15:06:35 <quaid> #action Build a stand-alone site that is a single entrance page, more professional, at fedoraproject.org/summer-coding.
15:06:50 <quaid> #action Close idea wiki pages (somehow)
15:07:49 <quaid> #action Ask for help from websites and design teams on the stand-alone page.
15:07:59 <quaid> #action quaid Write-up status of sponsorship search for summer-coding
15:08:22 <quaid> #action quaid Fill private mentor list with currently known potential mentors so we can begin discussions
15:08:49 <quaid> #action Remind everyone about how the public side of proposal discussions is going to go
15:09:08 <quaid> #action quaid Get confirmation from RHT Brno that they are going ahead with running their local internships through FSC2010
15:09:16 <quaid> ok, that's all from the list last week
15:09:53 <quaid> not going to keep diving in since we have active stuff to do that is important and timely.
15:10:08 <quaid> #topic Who are the mentors who need to be on the mentor list?
15:10:30 <quaid> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Summer_Coding_2010_proposals
15:10:52 <quaid> last night I just started to go through those to find mentor names to include, but haven't found any
15:11:11 <quaid> is there anyone here who has is a mentor on a proposal who is not on the private discussion list for mentors?
15:11:22 <Shrink> me
15:11:41 <abadger1999> Maybe me
15:11:50 <quaid> abadger1999: I think you are on
15:11:55 <quaid> Shrink: which proposal?
15:12:02 <Shrink> Shreyank Gupta, <shreyankg@gmail.com>, FSoC and Dorrie
15:12:06 <abadger1999> I remember applying but lost track after that.
15:13:08 <quaid> Shrink: ok, adding you right now ...
15:13:24 <Shrink> alrigh
15:14:21 <quaid> current people on the list are: abadger1999, ke4qqq, pilhuhn, jreznik, me, pwbarnes_away, sankarshan_away, Shrink, and wesleyhales
15:14:34 <adimania> I think rrix is missing.
15:14:46 <quaid> so we had a nearly 90% reduction on the new list from the redhat-summer-mentors ...
15:14:51 <quaid> adimania: good point, adding
15:14:55 <quaid> .fasinfo rrix
15:14:56 <zodbot> quaid: User: rrix, Name: Ryan Rix, email: ry@n.rix.si, Creation: 2009-08-05, IRC Nick: PhrkOnLsh, Timezone: US/Arizona, Locale: en, Extension: 5135425, GPG key ID: 0xA9BA939B3A78D8E1, Status: active
15:14:59 <zodbot> quaid: Approved Groups: @gitidentigator +campusambassadors sysadmin-test web @gitfedora-tour marketing freemedia packager ambassadors fedorabugs cla_done cla_fedora
15:15:16 <quaid> rrix added
15:15:43 <quaid> we'll maybe see others when we go through the proposals
15:19:36 <quaid> ok, let's move on for now
15:19:59 <quaid> #topic Proposal review - pre-deadline status/quality/etc. check
15:20:21 <quaid> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Summer_Coding_2010_proposals
15:20:35 <quaid> ideally we might have had some discussion on these already
15:20:49 <quaid> but the next week after the student deadline is going to be review of those
15:20:55 <quaid> today I thought we'd do a few things:
15:21:07 <quaid> 1. Look over all the proposals for status and completeness
15:21:16 <quaid> 2. Post any questions to the Talk: page, as per the process
15:21:32 <quaid> 3. Glean any mentors from the pages and get them on the list
15:21:54 <quaid> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_comment_on_Summer_Coding_2010_proposals
15:22:10 <quaid> mentors: any questions about that process?
15:22:20 <quaid> I think we got the kinks worked out from abadger1999's questions before ...
15:26:18 <abadger1999> Question: when/do coding tests come into the picture?
15:27:34 <quaid> I think ideally that would be done by now
15:27:38 <quaid> since it's a pre-qual
15:27:47 <quaid> but I haven't been tracking or enforcing that
15:28:09 <quaid> ultimately, it's supposed to be a tool for the individual mentor to know if the student is up to the task or not.
15:28:30 <quaid> if a mentor wants to pass on a proposal without doing a coding test, they can choose to do that.
15:28:45 <quaid> should we do some work on that over the next few days?
15:29:24 * glezos waves to quaid
15:29:30 <Shrink> I had asked my students to fork the project and start hacking on it. I guess that would suffice as my coding test.
15:29:32 <quaid> howdy glezos, we are just doing a pre-review of proposals :)
15:29:42 <quaid> Shrink: sounds like it :)
15:29:50 <jreznik> we already to ask few people to do a real world work instead of coding test
15:30:09 <jreznik> where we can put it for all people interested in projects?
15:30:42 <quaid> for anyone?  we could start a new wiki page for it.
15:31:07 <quaid> [[Summer Coding pre-qualifying tests]]?
15:31:11 <abadger1999> quaid: i don't know -- I have a simple test for anyone wanting to be involved with coprs.
15:31:44 <abadger1999> But that's as far as I've thought it out :-)
15:32:55 <adimania> jreznik: I wasn't asked to do anything formally for KDE netbook spin. rrix just asked me try out packaging. was that it? or there is more?
15:33:02 <Shrink> quaid, And what would that page contain ?
15:33:32 <jreznik> adimania: yes, it wasn't formally - that's why I'd like to see it somewhere more formally
15:34:40 <quaid> adimania: that sounds like the right thing to have done
15:34:48 <jreznik> with rrix we'd like to see more practical test to see if people understand packaging, fedora guidelines - so the task is package or review some package
15:34:58 <quaid> the mentor just needs to know that the student has the right base to work from.
15:35:18 <jreznik> yes and this "real work" is better prove for us
15:35:27 <quaid> Shrink: I think the page would be different ideas and examples of what mentors have done.
15:35:37 <Shrink> ok
15:35:53 <quaid> jreznik: I really like that idea, make the test also a contribution (real work), it tests more than just coding ability :)
15:38:29 <Shrink> http://github.com/shreyankg/fsoc/network : A student forked FSoC. Added some pretty cool features. I'm soon going to merge them with my branch.
15:38:52 <quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Summer_Coding_pre-qualifying_ideas
15:39:13 <quaid> anyone with specific ideas, such as said here, please put them in a == new section == so we can share with each other.
15:39:44 <pilhuhn> Yeah, I think the test should be "real world work" -- some projects (especially RHQ and jboss.org) will not need packaging that much as Fedora proper does, while for Fedora proper "package up ruby 1.9 so it can be installed next to 1.8" needs package skills and perhaps less programming
15:39:55 <pilhuhn> There is no one size fits all here
15:40:08 <quaid> +1
15:40:31 <dgilmore> -1
15:40:32 <quaid> ok, I'm going to start going through the proposals in reverse-alpha order (from that last backward toward the first, sorted by alpha)
15:40:43 <quaid> dgilmore: can you explain?
15:41:06 * quaid isn't interested in exploiting students, should put that in the instructions ...
15:41:17 <dgilmore> quaid: I think jboss's continued refusal to work in standard linux ways hurts
15:41:32 <quaid> dgilmore: ah, ok, that's not on topic
15:41:37 <dgilmore> quaid: But really SOC should be about code not packaging
15:41:44 <quaid> this isn't SOC
15:41:56 <quaid> so we get to make the rules
15:42:03 <quaid> ideally built on the model that Google pioneered
15:42:16 <quaid> but we already have e.g. a new guide proposed (content)
15:43:01 * quaid has long been interested in "summer content" work as well, so happy to see one such idea proposed this time
15:43:02 <pilhuhn> dgilmore: While I understand your position a FSoC project could be "replace the old RHQ graph drawing code by something modern". Good packaging and lousy programming skills would not make the project a success
15:43:09 <dgilmore> i guess as long as there is clear deliverables and the work meets the reward
15:43:38 <quaid> dgilmore: +1 as well as the reward (whatever it is) being sufficient or useful.
15:44:01 <dgilmore> quaid: and someone doing icons, artwork etc is useful and needed
15:44:20 <quaid> +1*10^3
15:44:46 <quaid> I hope we get more of that this coming Sep for the "Southern Summer Coding"
15:44:51 <dgilmore> so feel free to ignore me
15:45:07 <quaid> dgilmore: it's a skill I've honed for years ;-P
15:46:07 <dgilmore> i guess it should be called "Fedora Summer of Open Souce Embracement"
15:46:19 <dgilmore> or something more encompasing than just code
15:46:43 <abadger1999> Anyone editing https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Summer_Coding_pre-qualifying_ideas right now?
15:47:45 * abadger1999 takes silence as consent :-)
15:48:06 <quaid> I just added a bit!
15:48:17 <quaid> oops, edit conflict
15:48:24 <jreznik> quaid: sorry :)
15:48:29 <abadger1999> heh.  mediawiki! :-)
15:48:32 <quaid> nope was me
15:48:39 <dgilmore> i still hate mediawiki
15:48:40 <quaid> abadger1999: go ahead and do your bit, then I'll go add mine back in
15:48:48 <abadger1999> quaid: I've added a section now.
15:48:54 <abadger1999> quaid: Add your section header.
15:49:04 <abadger1999> quaid: Then we can edit our own sections nad not conflict.
15:50:33 <abadger1999> Hmm -- I just had a student ask what time on May 20th proposals are due.
15:50:51 * quaid is done
15:51:01 <quaid> abadger1999: we did NOT set a time
15:51:20 <quaid> so let's go with "Midnight Pacific time"?
15:51:39 * adimania thinks quaid is going to surprize us
15:52:01 <pilhuhn> pacific = california?
15:52:02 <abadger1999> Pacific rather than UTC? and midnight technically meaning 23:59:59.9 ?
15:52:08 <quaid> typically I do set a time, since this comes up in a multi-TZ project all the time, but I usually pick midnight UTC ... however, that would chop 8 hours for some people, so ...
15:52:26 <quaid> that is, at this point to tell people it is UTC could be cruel :)
15:52:39 <quaid> so, yes 2359 PDT
15:52:57 <quaid> adimania: surprise!
15:53:00 <pilhuhn> and waht about guys on Hawaii? :-)
15:53:37 <quaid> heh, just this once let's do Hawaii time :)
15:54:38 <quaid> ok, that would be UTC -10
15:54:45 <abadger1999> Okay.
15:54:47 <quaid> sound ok here?
15:55:08 <quaid> I'll put a big note at the top of the [[Summer Coding 2010]] page
15:55:31 <abadger1999> I'm good with as late as we want on the day :-)
15:59:56 <quaid> ok, time to wrap up and give back the channel
16:00:12 <quaid> I'm going to continue proposal review in #fedora-summer-coding if anyone wants to help, lurk, etc.
16:00:19 <quaid> #endmeeting