14:09:12 <jreznik> #startmeeting kde-sig -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2010-04-27
14:09:12 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Apr 27 14:09:12 2010 UTC.  The chair is jreznik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
14:09:14 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
14:09:29 <jreznik> #meetingname kde-sig
14:09:30 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'kde-sig'
14:10:10 <jreznik> #chair Kevin_Kofler than ltinkl rdieter SMParrish
14:10:11 <zodbot> Current chairs: Kevin_Kofler SMParrish jreznik ltinkl rdieter than
14:10:22 <jreznik> #topic roll call
14:10:27 <Kevin_Kofler> Present.
14:10:30 <jreznik> Who's present?
14:10:39 <ltinkl> present
14:10:50 <rdieter> here
14:10:54 * thomasj present
14:11:17 * than present
14:11:44 <jreznik> #info Kevin_Kofler ltinkl rdieter than thomasj present
14:12:02 <jreznik> #topic agenda
14:12:23 <jreznik> any other topics to be added to %subj%?
14:13:28 <jreznik> ok, nothing? let's start
14:13:37 <jreznik> #topic kde-4.4.3 update task (than)
14:14:25 <jreznik> than: what's the current state?
14:14:26 <than> KDE-4.4.3 will be available soon. we need someone who can work on the 4.4.3 update
14:14:37 <ltinkl> I am ready :)
14:14:43 <than> ltinkl: great
14:14:46 <ltinkl> move on
14:14:50 <ltinkl> that was quick
14:14:56 <jreznik> as usual I can help ltinkl
14:15:13 <ltinkl> yup, I will ask for some help if needed, mainly with tagging and stuff
14:15:14 <than> ltinkl: do you want to take care for F11/F12/F13?
14:15:31 <ltinkl> than: I will do rawhide first and then we will see
14:15:38 <thomasj> 4.4.3 for F-11?
14:15:41 <than> ltinkl: of course
14:15:43 <ltinkl> than: yup
14:15:48 <ltinkl> thomasj: ^^
14:15:48 <rdieter> we could ask rel-eng for a build tag again, worked out well for 4.4.1 and 4.4.2 I think
14:16:00 <than> thomasj: it's the question if we want to do update for f11
14:16:00 <jreznik> #info ltinkl to work on 4.4.3 update
14:16:13 <jreznik> than: it's minor update
14:16:20 <Kevin_Kofler> We should do F11 too.
14:16:24 <rdieter> how soon is 4.4.3 tagged?  a matter of days?
14:16:39 <Kevin_Kofler> It has more than 1 month left to live.
14:16:40 <jreznik> rdieter: good point with build tag
14:16:54 <Kevin_Kofler> And this is a bugfix release.
14:17:20 <than> ok we do kde-4.4.3update for f11  too
14:17:28 <rdieter> ok, I'll ask about a tag soonish, for f11-f13
14:17:29 <jreznik> yes, bugfix release and more than one month to F11 eol
14:18:01 <jreznik> #action rdieter to ask rel-eng for 4.4.3 build tag
14:18:19 <than> ltinkl: if you need help for 4.4.3 , just let us know
14:18:20 <ltinkl> this will be the last update for F11 right?
14:18:27 <jreznik> ltinkl: yes
14:18:27 <than> ltinkl: yes
14:19:15 <jreznik> ok, so we agreed, we can move
14:19:27 <jreznik> #topic F13 blocker bugs (than)
14:19:47 <than> are there any blocker bugs for F13?
14:19:51 * SMParrish here better late than never
14:20:03 <rdieter> last i checked, f13blocker-kde was clear
14:20:28 <than> rdieter: great, no blocker bug :)
14:20:37 <rdieter> the kdm/plymouth/initscripts thing was added though, just yesterday I think
14:20:45 <rdieter> it's an easyfix
14:20:49 <Kevin_Kofler> Yes, I added that, it's really part of the previous catchall blocker.
14:20:58 <jreznik> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=F13Blocker-kde
14:21:18 <Kevin_Kofler> I hope it will get sorted out quickly. I could use my provenpackager privileges to fix it, but I'd rather the initscripts maintainers do it!
14:21:39 <thomasj> ltinkl, sorry. Yeah, it's an bugfix update, so it should go to F-11 as well. My bad.
14:21:45 <rdieter> Kevin_Kofler: just ping notting beforehand, I'm sure it won't be a problem (or I can do it too)
14:21:47 <Kevin_Kofler> This seems to be a new Plymouth "feature" in F13, it wasn't like that in F12.
14:22:01 <rdieter> I think f12 was the same actually
14:22:07 <Kevin_Kofler> But I think F12 updates has it too now.
14:22:11 <Kevin_Kofler> I think it wasn't like that in F12 GA.
14:22:14 <than> bz585250  is assigned to Bill
14:22:19 <than> it's not fixed yer
14:22:26 <rdieter> but we can confirm that with halfline k, would explain why it seemed to stop working for me at some point
14:22:26 <Kevin_Kofler> But it's broken now in F12 updates and it's the same issue.
14:22:48 <Kevin_Kofler> It definitely used to work in F12!
14:22:55 <Kevin_Kofler> We'll need an initscripts update for F12 too.
14:22:57 <rdieter> (it only affects folks who have DISPLAYMANAGER set in /etc/sysconfig/desktop
14:23:12 <rdieter> without DISPLAYMANAGER and only kdm installed, the logic works right
14:23:32 <rdieter> right, let''s fix/test for f13 first, then we can think about f12 too
14:24:42 <halfline> hi
14:24:46 <halfline> what's the question?
14:25:14 <jreznik> halfline: hi, https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=585250
14:25:19 * halfline loads
14:26:02 <thomasj> I dont want to be the complete idiot today, but i have DISPLAYMANAGER set in F-12 and i have X on vt1
14:26:03 <rdieter> ie, is --retain-splash option in /etc/X11/prefdm needed on f12 too?
14:26:41 <halfline> the --retain-splash is needed if you want to keep kdm on the same vt as plymouth and want to do a smooth cross fade transition
14:26:53 <rdieter> ok, that's that then.  thanks
14:27:16 <halfline> it means "Keep the boot splash on screen after plymouth quits"
14:27:39 <rdieter> and that's what triggers creation of /var/spool/gdm/... ?
14:27:45 <halfline> yup
14:28:24 <rdieter> thomasj: interesting. :)  not sure how that can happen now, given the logic of /etc/X11/prefdm . ??
14:28:58 <rdieter> if "$DISPLAYMANAGER" = KDE , quit_arg shouldn't get set
14:29:47 <Kevin_Kofler> He might still have ServerVT=1 hardcoded.
14:30:01 <Kevin_Kofler> The config file is noreplace, so if you edited it, the setting will stay.
14:30:11 <rdieter> well, mystery is solved, we can explore testing details after meeting
14:30:30 <thomasj> ah ok, that might be it
14:30:35 <halfline> hopefully this whole mess can get cleaned up for f14 when we switch initscripts over to the new style transition
14:32:05 <rdieter> looking forward to it, move on?
14:32:07 <Kevin_Kofler> Yeah, we already have code to support that in KDM, thanks to Kubuntu.
14:32:24 <Kevin_Kofler> BTW, why are we not using the new-style transition yet?
14:32:34 <Kevin_Kofler> Ubuntu appears to be already using it, judging from the Kubuntu patch.
14:32:52 <Kevin_Kofler> Though maybe that's only in their next release which will be out about at the same time as F14.
14:33:08 <halfline> notting was having some issues with the initscript changes with an older version of upstart i think
14:33:34 <halfline> those aren't a problem now, so i think i'ts just a combination of not enough round tuits and lateness in the cycle
14:34:31 <halfline> anyway we'll get it all square for f14
14:34:52 <Kevin_Kofler> OK, thanks.
14:34:58 <jreznik> so f-14 topic
14:35:42 <Kevin_Kofler> rdieter: BTW, I think we should clean up our KDM patches, now we have a patch which supports the old-style method only (used up to F12) and a patch which supports both methods, which you did merging the 2 patches and which we're using on F13 and Rawhide.
14:36:03 <rdieter> Kevin_Kofler: sure
14:36:10 <Kevin_Kofler> Either we should use the merged patch everywhere or we should apply the old-style patch on F13 and the new-style patch (not the merged one) on Rawhide.
14:36:46 <rdieter> I just didn't want to introduce anything untested into our < f13 kde-4.4.2 updates
14:37:16 <jreznik> I don't like backporting new patch to older releases too
14:37:26 <Kevin_Kofler> So separate the patches again?
14:37:39 <Kevin_Kofler> I think in the long run we don't want to carry the code for the old hack around.
14:38:04 <Kevin_Kofler> And for F12 we only need the much smaller and well-tested "hack" patch.
14:38:13 <Kevin_Kofler> (and for F13 too(
14:38:14 <Kevin_Kofler> )
14:40:29 <rdieter> agreed, though we can hammer out the details after meeting
14:40:45 <jreznik> ok, let's finnish details after meeting
14:41:13 <jreznik> #topic kde-redhat readyness for F13 (Sho_)
14:41:44 <rdieter> short answer: kde-redhat is f13 ready and enabled already
14:42:11 <rdieter> gave myself the motivation to do so, by upgrading to f13 myself.
14:42:16 <jreznik> ok, great, thanks rdieter for quick answer
14:42:42 <jreznik> #info kde-redhat is f13 ready and enabled already
14:42:58 <jreznik> anything else for kde-redhat & f13?
14:43:34 <jreznik> #topic open discussion
14:44:28 <jreznik> anything else?
14:44:52 <Kevin_Kofler> Yes, let me check something.
14:45:11 <jreznik> ok, I'll wait
14:45:52 <Kevin_Kofler> rdieter: About kdelibs-4.4.2-4.
14:46:04 <Kevin_Kofler> So far this was pushed only to F13.
14:46:18 <Kevin_Kofler> F11 and F12 still only have 4.4.2-2 which is missing the webkit Obsoletes fix.
14:46:52 <jreznik> #topic kdelibs-4.4.2-4 to F11 & F12
14:46:54 <Kevin_Kofler> -4 also has additional 2 fixes (kidletime, input methods).
14:47:36 <rdieter> with 4.4.3 coming so soon, I'm not sure those items mentioned are worth rushing out a separate update honestly
14:47:37 <Kevin_Kofler> That said, Sho_ warned us that the kidletime fix seems to cause big trouble with NX.
14:47:54 <Kevin_Kofler> 4.4.3 will need to spend at least a week in testing too.
14:48:37 <rdieter> so, I'd rather just roll and wait for 4.4.3
14:48:59 <Kevin_Kofler> It's going to be at least 2 weeks until that can go out.
14:49:43 <rdieter> the webkit Obsoletes is largely cosmetic (the real Conflicts problem is fixed)
14:49:51 <rdieter> kidletime is still questionable
14:50:11 <rdieter> the input method thing... well, not sure how to rate it's impact
14:50:27 <rdieter> though that's probably been around for a long time already, so ...
14:50:36 <Kevin_Kofler> IIUC, you can't enter any East Asian text into the KatePart.
14:50:40 <Kevin_Kofler> That's quite bad.
14:51:16 <rdieter> if others feel it's seriousness warrants it, go for it I guess.
14:51:22 <than> we should disable patches which cause trobles
14:51:50 <than> kidletime and input method thing
14:52:17 <Kevin_Kofler> The input method thing doesn't cause trouble, it fixes it. :-)
14:52:21 <than> are both included in latest kdelibs?
14:52:21 <jreznik> than: but then there's no need to push it
14:52:33 <Kevin_Kofler> But I don't know how bad the trouble really is.
14:52:35 <than> Kevin_Kofler: ah ok
14:52:45 <jreznik> what is the problem with kidletiem?
14:53:17 <Kevin_Kofler> It seems that without the patch, the KatePart doesn't accept Japanese text in some cases, I don't know under what conditions (always? very rarely?).
14:54:07 <Kevin_Kofler> jreznik: This one: <Sho_> rdieter: It seems OK in regular X, but in NX Konvi with KIdleTime support (i.e. git master + -DUSE_KIDLETIME=true) hasn't exactly improved, rather it's getting killed immediately now
14:54:12 <than> Kevin_Kofler: ok i will try to ask someone to test it
14:54:35 <Kevin_Kofler> So with the patch, KIdleTime is fixed for common X11 usage, but it seems it's even more broken under NX.
14:55:06 <Kevin_Kofler> I don't know whether that's a bug in the patch or a bug in NX.
14:55:22 <than> Kevin_Kofler: is the fix included in 4.4.3 branch?
14:55:32 <Kevin_Kofler> Which one?
14:55:53 <than> the kidletiem
14:56:35 <Kevin_Kofler> It comes from the 4.4 branch indeed.
14:56:57 <Kevin_Kofler> So it's going to be in 4.4.3 unless it gets reverted or changed.
14:57:13 <Kevin_Kofler> I don't know how much stuff actually uses KIdleTime.
14:57:16 <than> it introduces new regression here
14:57:36 <Kevin_Kofler> Sho_ wanted to use it in future versions of Konversation.
14:57:46 <jreznik> it should be reported upstream that it breaks nx
14:58:10 <than> i think we should rather disable this pathc
14:58:19 <Kevin_Kofler> than: What regression?
14:58:41 <jreznik> than: as it's going to be in 4.4.3...
14:58:54 <than> Kevin_Kofler: that it breaks under NX
14:58:55 <jreznik> would be nice to ask upstream - report problems
14:59:25 <rdieter> if folks want an update with input method fix, then I guess just do another build sans the kidletime patch then?
15:01:16 <jreznik> we are out of time - let solve it in #fedora-kde
15:01:32 <jreznik> thanks
15:01:34 <jreznik> #endmeeting