00:03:52 <stickster> #startmeeting 00:03:52 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Mar 4 00:03:52 2010 UTC. The chair is stickster. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 00:03:54 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 00:03:55 <stickster> #meetingname Docs 00:03:55 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'docs' 00:04:37 <stickster> #topic Roll call! 00:04:41 * jjmcd . 00:04:42 * stickster 00:04:44 * rudi is here (kinda) 00:04:49 * threethirty 00:05:27 * stickster holds the roll call open for 20 more sec 00:05:40 <jjmcd> Emad78, chime in! 00:06:27 <Emad78> Im here, Im here 00:06:38 <stickster> #topic Alpha announcement 00:06:46 <stickster> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_announcements 00:07:11 <stickster> OK, we have a page (link above) that gives instructions for how to do this 00:07:32 <stickster> What we need now is someone who is willing to write up a draft, send the wiki URL to the docs team for editing, and then collect the results 00:08:16 <stickster> The draft should be done by... let's say Saturday 2010-03-06 00:08:16 <jjmcd> When is it due? Isn't mchua_afk supposed to be engaged? 00:08:42 <stickster> jjmcd: We can't expect mchua_afk to do everything y'know! :-) 00:08:53 <stickster> I think threethirty, you had put up a hand to help here, right? 00:09:02 <threethirty> yeah 00:09:05 <stickster> Yay! 00:09:08 <jjmcd> Yeah, I just thought she was supposed to provide the marketing spin 00:09:33 <jjmcd> threethirty, I'll be around the next few days (unlike the past few) if you need a shoulder to cry on 00:09:35 <stickster> jjmcd: I think threethirty is handling that 00:09:40 <stickster> OK 00:09:55 <stickster> #action threethirty to draft release announcement based on link instructions 00:10:16 <stickster> threethirty: If you find problems in that page of instructions -- things that don't make sense or don't match up with other things people have told you -- don't be afraid to cry foul! 00:10:27 <threethirty> alrighty 00:10:37 <jjmcd> Most of us are idling in the docs channel most of the time 00:10:51 <stickster> threethirty: I'm going to quickly find the F-11 and F-12 announcements and add them to the list of links at the bottom of that page 00:11:13 <threethirty> that would be a great help, ty, this is my first release 00:11:37 <jjmcd> threethirty, plenty of folks around to help, happy to see a new contributor be successful 00:11:38 <stickster> Done 00:11:46 <stickster> jjmcd: +10! 00:11:50 <stickster> OK, anything more on this? 00:12:05 <stickster> threethirty: When you're done, send email to Docs and Marketing and we'll pore over your work and help you polish it 00:12:16 <threethirty> can do 00:12:19 <stickster> threethirty: Don't be afraid to be creative, you'll see that in other announcements in the past 00:12:39 <stickster> Oh wait 00:12:46 <stickster> threethirty: I linked the wrong stuff, hang on 00:12:49 * stickster apologizes 00:12:56 <stickster> What he provided was the final announcement links, sorry threethirty 00:13:08 <threethirty> lol thats ok 00:13:55 <stickster> #undo 00:13:56 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x2b6f94e63b10> 00:13:57 <stickster> #undo 00:13:57 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Link object at 0x27d7ed90> 00:14:06 <stickster> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Alpha_Announcement -- example from F12 Alpha 00:14:13 <stickster> threethirty: I'm going to quickly find the F-11 and F-12 announcements and add them to the list of links at the bottom of that page 00:14:19 <stickster> oops, wrong line :-) 00:14:26 <stickster> #action threethirty to draft release announcement based on link instructions 00:14:30 <stickster> There we go :-) 00:14:52 <stickster> threethirty: Your job is even easier now. Some of that example text can be copied to the new page 00:15:15 <stickster> threethirty: Anything else you could use, or are you good now? 00:15:24 <threethirty> stickster: i think i have it 00:15:28 <stickster> threethirty: Awesome. 00:15:30 <stickster> Moving on! 00:15:44 <stickster> #topic F13 Alpha release notes 00:15:52 <stickster> jjmcd: Sock it to me! 00:16:17 <jjmcd> joebebus has started some work on this, I have to admit, I haven't had a look at how far he has gotten 00:16:57 <jjmcd> Looking at the history he seems to have done a bunch 00:17:30 <stickster> jjmcd: link? 00:17:46 <jjmcd> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_13_Alpha_release_notes 00:18:28 <stickster> jjmcd: Thanks! 00:18:50 <stickster> That is looking pretty good 00:18:50 <jjmcd> Gotta get those new folks doing fun things 00:19:02 <stickster> Wish joebebus was here to thank 00:19:15 <stickster> What's our next action here? Who is going to do a final review and approval on this document? 00:19:15 <jjmcd> Yeah, I thought I mentioned the meeting to him 00:19:42 <jjmcd> We need it by the weekend, is that correct? 00:19:46 <stickster> Let me back up... 00:19:51 <stickster> Yeah, thanks jjmcd, I was about to go there :-) 00:19:59 <stickster> Yes, approx. same date as announcement 00:20:22 <jjmcd> I'll contact joebebus, review it, and perhaps send Mel the link to look over and get the marketing spin 00:20:35 <stickster> Fantabulous! 00:20:42 <stickster> #info joebebus has been doing a great job on the draft thus far 00:20:53 <jjmcd> :-) 00:21:04 <stickster> #action jjmcd to contact joebebus, review the wiki page, and notify Docs/Marketing to review/finalize 00:21:33 <stickster> jjmcd: OK, anything else you think we need to do on this item? 00:21:43 <jjmcd> No, I think we're good 00:21:55 <stickster> Moving on then 00:22:03 <stickster> jjmcd: I'm going to inject a related topic now which is.... 00:22:07 <stickster> #topic F13 Beta release notes 00:22:30 <stickster> The Beta release is only a few weeks out, for which Docs team produces a full-on set of relnotes 00:22:44 <jjmcd> Pretty much waiting to hear how tfx is turning out 00:22:54 <stickster> jjmcd: Are there milestone points to let developers know what (if any) time they have left to put information in the beats? 00:23:03 <jjmcd> Yes 00:23:10 <stickster> AWESOME! 00:23:22 <jjmcd> I need to raise the volume there, tho 00:23:40 <stickster> I'd recommend a blog entry and something to devel-announce@ 00:23:49 <stickster> as well as devel@ and other places you're considering 00:23:56 <stickster> Does that sound workable? 00:23:57 <jjmcd> Yeah, I did something to dev a while back, but nothing on planer 00:24:01 <jjmcd> Yep 00:24:11 <jjmcd> planet grrrr 00:24:22 <stickster> #action jjmcd to post to devel@, devel-announce@, and planet re: devs need to get their changes into beats *pronto* 00:24:55 <stickster> jjmcd: Wrt. transifex... 00:25:08 <stickster> It should be ready to go when the infrastructure freeze lifts after F13 Alpha release 00:25:16 <stickster> Around 2010-03-10 I believe 00:25:17 <jjmcd> good deal 00:25:48 <stickster> #info Transifex 0.7.4 should be ready to go when infrastructure freeze lifts after F13 Alpha 00:26:05 <stickster> jjmcd: I did see a message on the trans@ list that made me prick up my ears 00:26:15 <stickster> Someone was suggesting "Why don't we upgrade to 0.8?" 00:26:36 <jjmcd> I caught that, one of the few things I caught this past couple weeks 00:26:42 <stickster> I don't object to that -- *except* that it may mean we have to go back two steps, and *any* backing up at this point is going to be really hard on translators. 00:26:50 <stickster> They already have a reduced window.s 00:27:06 <jjmcd> Yeah, and they got a tough job anyway 00:27:25 <stickster> 0.7.4 fixes a ton of problems, and 0.8 may be better but it's not so much better that translators should have to wait yet again to have their first set of problems fixed 00:27:43 <stickster> ricky and others have worked really hard to get 0.7.4 working and I don't fancy undoing that work. 00:27:50 <stickster> or rather, not "undoing" but "adding to" 00:28:03 <jjmcd> Also on my to-do 00:28:30 <jjmcd> We are suggesting automated builds for all the docs during xlation. I promised ke4qqq I'd write up something on how to do that 00:28:51 <stickster> Yeah, if we can find a place/method to do that I'm all for it. 00:29:00 <jjmcd> We did it for F12 but I had to use some non-fedora space. ricky has made a spot for this 00:29:08 <stickster> cool! 00:29:11 <stickster> OK, anything else on this? 00:29:15 * stickster notes he has a hard stop at the hours 00:29:15 <jjmcd> nope 00:29:16 <stickster> *hour 00:29:20 <stickster> This meeting will conclude on time. 00:29:42 <stickster> #topic Desktop Help Summit 00:30:04 <stickster> What's the topic here? Is there work left for us to do wrt. the Summit? 00:30:21 <jjmcd> I don't see shaunm, but last meeting looks like he has most of what he needs, still questions about audio, tho 00:30:59 <stickster> jjmcd: What were those questions? 00:31:14 * stickster notes... it's much easier to run these meetings on topic if the agenda contains the specific issue or question to be answered 00:31:42 <jjmcd> No phone line, can someone with unlimited minutes call in. He was going to talk to someone with a portable hotspot 00:32:10 <jjmcd> I don't think we can add much here tonite, why not move on 00:32:11 <stickster> jjmcd: Yes, there is a local call-in number in Chicago. 00:32:26 <stickster> Anyone with a cell phone can call into the conference line through that number. It's on http://talk.fedoraproject.org 00:32:37 <jjmcd> Yep, it's in my phone 00:32:44 <stickster> #info There is a local Chicago dialin for Fedora Talk on http://talk.fedoraproject.org 00:32:49 <stickster> Moving on 00:33:24 <stickster> #topic Release Notes 00:33:32 <stickster> Didn't we cover that? 00:33:33 <jjmcd> we just did that, basically 00:33:38 <stickster> My fault probably :-)( 00:33:42 <stickster> ha, double chin 00:34:04 <stickster> #info covered above 00:34:18 <stickster> Do we need a topic for new guides at every meeting? 00:34:39 <stickster> #topic New guides 00:34:41 <jjmcd> Well, Eric likes that, it always seems to have the same result, tho 00:34:55 <stickster> Then we should strike it. Keeping an item that no one cares about is silly. 00:35:08 <stickster> #info stickster motions to strike this if it's not generating any actual action items or work. 00:35:27 * jjmcd suspects it is as much an invite as anything else 00:35:48 <stickster> If anyone wants to propose a new guide now's your chance! (waiting 20 sec) 00:36:10 <stickster> Moving on 00:36:12 <stickster> #topic Guide status 00:36:36 <jjmcd> Still no guide owners have updated their schedules. 00:36:42 <stickster> I think I saw some lurkers here... rudi, Tsagadai, anyone -- have you checked schedules? 00:36:47 <stickster> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_F13_schedule 00:36:57 <stickster> Not sure who else here owns a guide. 00:37:13 <rudi> stickster -- done :) 00:37:21 <rudi> I'll prod the other RHatters 00:37:25 <stickster> Disco! 00:37:28 <stickster> Nice work rudi, thanks 00:37:45 <stickster> rudi: I'd like to talk about one other thing if you have 5 min or so 00:37:50 <rudi> Sure 00:37:57 <stickster> What can we do to better attract people to help you guys with guides? 00:38:08 <Tsagadai> checked but little more than that 00:38:09 * stickster sets topic clock 00:38:49 * stickster suspects this is not untread ground, but would like to get a contemporary opinion 00:39:05 <rudi> Basically what we discussed a couple of weeks ago; guide owners need to become proactive in marking some easyfixes 00:39:32 <stickster> rudi: We're having that bugstomp coming up this weekend. 00:39:49 <rudi> Those of us inside the collective are running pretty ragged right now, so our eyes have been elsewhere for a few weeks now 00:39:50 <stickster> rudi: If maintainers mark any applicable BZs with EasyFix we may be able to wrangle some help 00:40:32 <rudi> Yeah, that would be awesome 00:40:42 * stickster notes that sparks did not follow up with his action item to start conversation about bugstomp this coming weekend 00:41:08 <stickster> I know he's sick now so unlikely to take care of that in the next day or two. 00:41:13 * stickster will take that on 00:41:24 <stickster> #action stickster to take up sparks action item for bug stomping conversation 00:41:34 <rudi> Because of the complications of docs where the RH and Fedora versions share code, the easiest ones for new writers to sink their teeth into are the exclusively Fedora docs 00:41:53 <stickster> rudi: OK, I'll see if we can't drum up help. It's coming up this weekend IIRC so I regret the short deadline on the EasyFix stuff 00:41:58 <rudi> In particular, the User Guide springs to mind as one that needs a lot of love 00:42:14 <stickster> Is that User Guide or Deployment Guide? 00:42:21 <rudi> I'll try to create some specific Easy fixes for the weekend 00:42:24 <rudi> User Guide 00:42:24 <jjmcd> rudi, won't that be hard until we see beta? 00:42:43 <jjmcd> Oh, you're looking at F12 fixes, sorry 00:43:03 <rudi> jjmcd -- in a way, but the UG has a lot of general content for new users that could do with some work 00:43:18 <stickster> Yup, and it's pretty accessible by everyone in terms of technical knowledge needed 00:43:19 <rudi> And "conceptual" stuff won't change 00:43:30 <stickster> OK, the 5-min clock just beeped at me 00:43:38 <rudi> And in its (relatively) simple XML structure 00:43:41 <jjmcd> Perhaps Emad78 would like to look into that 00:44:05 <Emad78> If I can get some direction I'd be glad to jump in head first. 00:44:08 <stickster> Emad78: Are you on the docs list? 00:44:26 <Emad78> I dont know. Ive been waiting for some approval I think. 00:44:38 <jjmcd> I can fix that if you applied 00:44:39 <stickster> Emad78: I think the list signup is open, there's no approval needed 00:44:58 <stickster> #link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/docs <-- open signup here for Docs list 00:45:04 <jjmcd> And I can help when the sun is on this side of the planet, rudi on the other 00:45:11 * stickster changes the topic to better reflect this conversation 00:45:20 <stickster> #topic Bug stomping session -- 2010-03-06 00:45:37 <stickster> #undo 00:45:38 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0x2b6f96274850> 00:45:43 <stickster> #undo 00:45:44 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Link object at 0x2b6f95041190> 00:45:48 <stickster> #undo 00:45:48 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x2843bc90> 00:45:52 <rudi> stickster - when does the bugstomp start? (in Zulu time?) 00:45:58 <stickster> #topic Bug stomping session -- 2010-03-06 00:46:05 <stickster> #link https://lists.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/docs <-- open signup here for Docs list 00:46:10 <stickster> #action stickster to take up sparks action item for bug stomping conversation 00:46:24 <stickster> rudi: Let me check the logs from last week. 00:46:46 <rudi> (I need deadlines! :) ) 00:47:07 <stickster> Looks like 1500-2100 UTC right now 00:47:13 <stickster> That's not so good for you is it? 00:47:37 <stickster> Oh wait, it's not as bad as it seems 00:47:51 <stickster> rudi: That's... 6am to 12 noon BNE time, right? 00:47:57 <stickster> (sunday) 00:48:25 <stickster> Obviously not perfect. But at least the latter half isn't nightmarish 00:48:34 <rudi> Yep -- that's good 00:48:35 * stickster notes we can extend past 2100 UTC as needed 00:48:40 <stickster> That was just a jumping off place. 00:48:51 <stickster> OK 00:49:02 <rudi> I don't know whether I can be involved, but I can certainly have a couple of easyfixes set up by then 00:49:10 <stickster> #info Reminder -- bug stomping session to be held Saturday 2010-03-06, UTC 1500-2100 00:49:25 <rudi> Nothing like learning XML at the pointy end, Emad78 :) 00:49:29 <stickster> #action rudi to set up some EasyFixes, including in the User Guide where new folks might be able to lend a hand 00:49:35 <stickster> Thanks for your help rudi 00:49:38 <rudi> NP 00:49:44 <rudi> Sorry I've been so scarce lately :) 00:50:09 <stickster> rudi: I know how busy you must be :-) 00:50:15 <stickster> Thanks for taking some time with us :-) 00:50:21 * stickster is moving on 00:50:40 <stickster> #topic Bugzilla status 00:50:48 <stickster> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&classification=Fedora&product=Fedora%20Documentation&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED 00:50:55 <stickster> #topic All other business 00:51:09 <stickster> OK, we have 10 minutes left. Anything we haven't covered that we need to! 00:51:24 <jjmcd> I have one small thing 00:51:51 <jjmcd> If anyone hasn't had a chance to watch Max Spevack's awseome talk on governance, well worth the 45 minutes 00:51:54 <jjmcd> http://meetings-archive.debian.net/pub/debian-meetings/2010/fosdem10/low/Fedora_Governance.ogv 00:52:28 <jjmcd> Sonds like a dull subject but Max can make anything fun 00:52:32 * spevack blushes 00:52:52 <stickster> I have it on my Desktop and had literally no time to open it this week... sorry spevack :-( 00:53:05 <stickster> It keeps glaring at me with disapproving eyes 00:53:09 <stickster> Much like spevack actually 00:53:43 <spevack> stickster: i only look at you with puppy dog eyes 00:53:46 <stickster> jjmcd: Thanks for that link -- Max's speeches are always fun to watch 00:53:48 <stickster> awwww 00:53:54 <stickster> spevack: I prefer pony eyes 00:54:14 <stickster> http://img27.imageshack.us/i/ponies.jpg/ 00:54:40 <stickster> OK, that's it from here at Fedora Moonbase Alpha then. 00:54:43 <jjmcd> That looks like mo's artwork 00:55:00 <stickster> jjmcd: rudi: Tsagadai: threethirty: Thanks for being here and helping out 00:55:18 <stickster> jjmcd: I think rbergeron did it, but I could be wrong 00:55:25 <stickster> That's a wrap folks! 00:55:28 <stickster> #endmeeting