15:20:32 <adamw> #startmeeting Bugzappers 2010-02-02 15:20:32 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Feb 2 15:20:32 2010 UTC. The chair is adamw. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:20:34 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 15:20:41 <adamw> #topic sekrit meeting 15:20:50 <adamw> for the logs, we've been having a not-a-meeting-meeting for 20 minutes now 15:20:55 <adamw> so we're making it formal 15:21:15 <adamw> the only person with an agenda item who's here is me, so: 15:21:21 <iarlyy> adamw, akia is not able to write on channel 15:21:23 <adamw> #topic bugs filed on orphans 15:21:30 <adamw> I've done nothing! 15:21:36 <adamw> #info he's done nothing 15:21:37 <iarlyy> his told me now 15:21:44 <adamw> #topic open floor 15:21:49 <adamw> alrighty, there we go 15:21:55 <adamw> iarlyy: he needs to register with nickserv 15:22:08 <adamw> iarlyy: unregistered nicks can't post to public channels currently (to deal with the bot crap) 15:22:35 <azneita> i love the sekrit meeting 15:22:44 <adamw> :) 15:23:06 <adamw> #topic open floor - serega's abrt proposal 15:23:10 <adamw> serega: take it away 15:23:19 <iarlyy> adamw, thats the problem, thanks = ) 15:24:04 <serega> ok. recently I have started to triage bugs for the empathy components. Initially (well, and still) the bug list was almost 100% abrt crash reports 15:24:37 <adamw> what kind of numbers are we talking here? in reports-per-day terms? 15:25:02 <serega> the backtrace abrt provides is quite hard to read due to the function argument expansion, so quickly I went to a python script which cleans the backtrace up, leaving only the function names stack 15:25:39 <serega> adamw: when I got to the triage there was 84 bugs already filed 15:26:21 <adamw> serega: can you provide a link for an example of that (script)? 15:26:51 <serega> adamw: sec, I'll find the bugreport with result 15:27:00 <serega> *a bugreport 15:27:08 <adamw> thanks 15:28:33 <serega> ah, here: bug #558883 15:28:49 <adamw> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=558883 15:28:58 <adamw> #info example of serega's script 15:29:00 <adamw> carry on! 15:29:11 <serega> see the "cleaned backtrace" attachment 15:30:18 <iarlyy> serega, is other attachment the original? 15:30:29 <serega> the clean up backtraces are much easier to memorize, because you can look over the whole trace. Memorizing is dead critical for detecting dupes among abrt reports 15:30:42 <serega> let's move on 15:32:09 <adamw> ok 15:32:32 <serega> Finally, after 25 reports I got a feeling I can't hold all different things in my head. Now I'm thinking about the script which could compare two stack traces and compute their _similarity_ 15:32:40 <serega> like... 90% similar 15:33:15 <serega> that's useful for reports that are different due to some symbol absense, but naturally the same 15:33:21 <mcepl> serega: I would suggest filing a bug against abrt... they may incorporate your script directly into abrt 15:34:26 <serega> mcepl: good point, but that is not the end 15:34:49 <mcepl> sure 15:35:51 * adamw waits with bated breath :) 15:36:08 <serega> finally, I keep the local copies of bug report backtraces I have triaged and search trough them with grep. Not very efficient and not multiuser either, heh :) I would like to have an ability to find similar bureports via bugzilla 15:36:25 <serega> adamw: breathe, please 15:37:10 * adamw turning blue 15:37:15 <adamw> hi akiase - working yet? 15:37:59 <adamw> serega: that would probably work best as some kinda jetpack thing 15:38:12 <mcepl> serega: there are plans to move all abrt backtraces to separate server, so as not to overload bugzilla (and bug triagers). Something similar to http://crash-stats.mozilla.com/ 15:38:53 <serega> also, abrt when it files a report could add comments to the bugs which are seems to be similar 15:39:57 * serega apologies for his english :( 15:40:16 <adamw> mcepl: when you say 'there are plans' 15:40:30 <serega> how can I move on the idea? Wiki page? 15:40:41 <adamw> mcepl: is anyone actually working on it yet? :) 15:41:02 <adamw> serega: I would say, thread on the mailing list, wiki page in your personal space, code in one of the qa git repos 15:41:27 <serega> ok 15:41:44 <serega> I think I'm set 15:41:46 <adamw> if you mention it in your mailing list post jlaska or someone will probably help you set up a git repo on one of the qa trac spaces or smth 15:41:48 <akiase> (test) 15:41:51 <adamw> yay akiase! 15:42:06 <mcepl> adamw: I don't know, I am talking about it with jmoskovc on the internal IRC... and yes, there is a lot of work done there 15:42:16 <akiase> finally! :D It took the whole meeting... 15:42:37 <serega> well, open floor :) 15:43:18 <adamw> serega: this script of yours seems neat too 15:43:30 <adamw> mcepl: could it be incorporated into the jetpack and made into an idiot button? 15:43:35 <adamw> (click it and it works) 15:44:07 <serega> adamw: thanks 15:44:26 <mcepl> what? serega's script ... depends on what exactly it is. I do something similar myself (well, not similar, but I do parse abrt backtraces). 15:44:31 <serega> ah, I'm working on the chromium BugZapper plugin though 15:45:53 <serega> mcepl: it just strips out function arguments with regexp 15:45:54 <iarlyy> serega, good, let me know when alpha/beta version is available heh 15:46:09 <mcepl> serega: this https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=543875#c2 is automatically generated 15:46:13 <serega> iarlyy: yup, I'll announce it on the test list 15:47:00 <mcepl> serega: well, I am not sure about it ... it seems to leaving too much stuff behind, which may improve (already pretty bad) misassignments of bugs to other components. 15:47:23 <serega> mcepl: looks like a plain cite of the original backtrace. what was changed? 15:48:12 <mcepl> serega: well, calling of functions like IA__g_type_check_instance_is_a (or almost any IA___g* function) is useless without parameters 15:48:16 <serega> mcepl: I don't propose to cut the abrt reports. Just provide an additional more human-readable form 15:48:52 <serega> sure, the arguments can be critical for bug resolution by maintainers 15:48:56 <mcepl> serega: still I hear some grumbling from developers about misassigned bug reports making more work for them. 15:49:23 <mcepl> and I am afraid that this wouldn't improve our understanding of backtraces. 15:50:19 <serega> matching similar backtraces would solve the problem of misassignment to a certain degree. with a reasonable similarity threshold. 15:50:52 <iarlyy> I guess the main problem with abrt reports is the dup, isn't? 15:51:02 <serega> in particular, triage of 60 more empathy abrt reports looks like a hell :) 15:51:37 <serega> iarlyy: yes, there are quite many dupes with different checksums 15:52:36 <serega> finally, reasonable fraction of empathy crash reports seem to be gtk2 bugs 15:53:27 <adamw> serega: anything you do that could sensibly become part of abrt, jmoskovc will be interested in 15:53:44 <adamw> he's very keen to get more accurate reports coming out of abrt 15:54:28 <serega> adamw: I'll try to sort the ideas carefully and then contact him. Thanks Adam 15:54:40 <mcepl> serega: please, keep me in the loop 15:54:47 <adamw> yup mcepl too 15:54:54 <adamw> mcepl: is there an abrt ml that you're on? 15:55:03 <mcepl> adamw: unfortunately, not 15:55:08 <adamw> maybe there should be... 15:58:58 <adamw> ok, so are you happy about having somewhere to go with this for now, serega? 15:59:12 <mcepl> adamw, serega: https://fedorahosted.org/abrt/wiki 15:59:35 <mcepl> https://fedorahosted.org/mailman/listinfo/crash-catcher 16:01:10 <adamw> #link https://fedorahosted.org/mailman/listinfo/crash-catcher 16:01:20 <adamw> looks like the place 16:02:06 <adamw> #info serega working on scripts to process backtraces for dupe detection and easy reading, will work with mcepl and abrt team to take it further 16:02:20 <adamw> #topic open floor 16:02:29 <adamw> did anyone have something else to discuss? 16:02:58 <iarlyy> adamw, no from me 16:03:24 <azneita> none from me either 16:03:25 <akiase> not for now from me... 16:04:08 <adamw> mcepl, anything? 16:04:21 <mcepl> nope 16:05:42 <adamw> alrighty 16:05:43 <adamw> #endmeeting