16:30:45 <nirik> #startmeeting IRC Support SIG (2010-01-21)
16:30:45 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Jan 21 16:30:45 2010 UTC.  The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:30:45 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:30:46 <nirik> #meetingname irc-support-sig
16:30:46 <nirik> #topic init process
16:30:46 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'irc-support-sig'
16:31:01 <nirik> who all is around for meeting?
16:31:06 * hiemanshu 
16:31:08 * EvilBob 
16:32:48 * nirik will wait a minute or two more for folks to wander in.
16:35:01 <nirik> ok, I guess we should go ahead and get starteed.
16:35:05 <nirik> started even.
16:35:40 <nirik> #topic registration and spam
16:35:56 <nirik> so, the big news this last week has been the spammers/floodbots on freenode.
16:36:04 * thomasj here
16:36:11 <nirik> we have setup a redirect for any unregistered user to #fedora-unregistered
16:36:33 <nirik> along with a number of ways to tell people there that they should register.
16:36:59 <nirik> The thought was that we keep this setup until the freenode ircd move and try going back to the old setup then.
16:37:18 <nirik> any thoughts on things we should change now or other ideas moving ahead?
16:37:31 <EvilBob> I am not aware of the changes the newbring IRCd will
16:37:41 <EvilBob> I am not aware of the changes the new IRCd will bring
16:38:06 <nirik> I have heard from a number of staffers that the new ircd should help block floodbots like we were seeing this last week.
16:38:13 <nirik> but I have no details on how it would.
16:38:28 <EvilBob> This is working, keeping some of the part/join noise down even
16:38:51 <nirik> from the freenode blog: "This new ircd provides a number of exciting new capabilities including improved capability to deal with spam of all kinds, including this most recent type which is entirely mitigated by improvements in seven"
16:38:57 <fenris02> the existint ircd is quite hackable
16:39:15 <thomasj> Works very well. Not just the spam bots are out, even most of the trolls.
16:39:20 <fenris02> also provides ircs
16:39:22 <EvilBob> The users "stuck" in -unregistered are not participants in the channel anyhow
16:39:26 <thomasj> Speaking of #fedora now
16:39:43 <nirik> yeah, it's caught a few of those for sure.
16:39:57 <fenris02> very few trolls remain in #fedora after +rR
16:40:21 <EvilBob> again with the +rR
16:40:29 <hiemanshu> I think the current setup is good, and probably even continue after the new IRCd
16:40:32 * fenris02 guesses that the number of kbans has gone down considerably since
16:41:03 <nirik> we don't have +R set. ;)
16:41:06 <nirik> but yeah...
16:41:11 <thomasj> No kick/ban from my side since we changed it.
16:41:23 <EvilBob> The current policy is different than the old policy
16:41:23 <nirik> so, sounds like folks are wanting to keep the current setup moving forward?
16:41:34 <thomasj> +1
16:41:37 <hiemanshu> +1
16:41:41 <Dan_NH> +1
16:41:44 <fenris02> EvilBob, what was the old policy?
16:41:51 <fenris02> +1 nirik
16:41:55 <EvilBob> the current sends unregistered users to a channel where communication is not prevented
16:42:08 * fenris02 nods
16:42:13 <EvilBob> the old policy sent them in to a muted channel
16:42:27 <EvilBob> +1 keep the current
16:42:32 <nirik> well, not sure we need to decide right now...
16:43:10 <fenris02> EvilBob, did the old policy work better, worse, or about the same as the current one?
16:43:21 * Dan_NH can see benefit of old policy.
16:43:31 <EvilBob> fenris02: does not matter it is not allowed
16:43:45 <nirik> EvilBob: ?
16:43:57 <fenris02> EvilBob, oic.  i'd asked about doing that a bit earlier
16:43:59 <EvilBob> fenris02: ;^) this is by far better
16:44:30 <EvilBob> fenris02: sending unknowing/uneducated users in to a block hole really sucked
16:44:50 <fenris02> ok, fair enough
16:45:11 <EvilBob> fenris02: with -unregistered not muted they can at least ask for help registering
16:45:13 <nirik> I think if we are going to go this long term we need: board buyin, and docs updated (to note about registering, etc).
16:45:55 <EvilBob> see "the board" when reading my "not allowed" comment
16:46:01 <thomasj> What docs need updating?
16:46:15 <nirik> thomasj: the communicate ones on the wiki most likely?
16:46:28 <nirik> and/or any of the install/release notes that talk about where to get help
16:46:44 <fenris02> the irc page on fp.o already mentions registering.  that's how i knew.  it does need updates - but only to add the newer channels (-uk, 398, freeipa, etc..)
16:46:45 <thomasj> nirik, good point
16:46:47 <nirik> EvilBob: sure, but I think we can get buyin if we approach with clear advantages, etc.
16:47:19 <nb> is anyone in #fedora-unregistered to help people register?
16:47:26 <EvilBob> nb: yes
16:47:29 <nirik> nb: yep. A number of us ops are.
16:47:34 <EvilBob> nb: most of the ops hang out there
16:47:35 <nb> oh ok
16:47:38 * nb will idle in there too
16:47:55 <nirik> we also have: a welcome message with a link, a topic with a link, a bot that spews every 15min with a note/link.
16:48:24 <nb> nice
16:48:28 <nirik> I think since freenode is now not +R, we could also point folks there to help get registered.
16:48:32 <EvilBob> nirik: I think we are doing everything "right" this time
16:48:35 <nirik> if we can't figure it out.
16:49:06 <nirik> yeah, I think it's working not too bad...
16:49:20 * EvilBob waits for the next item
16:49:22 <nirik> anything further on this topic? or shall we move along?
16:49:38 <nirik> #topic Stats
16:49:48 <nirik> weekly stats over at http://fedora.theglaserfamily.org/ircstats/fedora-weekly.html as usual.
16:50:18 <fenris02> woot!  not #1 for a change!
16:50:21 <nirik> been a lighter than normal week I think...
16:50:29 <nirik> yikes. I am.
16:51:20 <EvilBob> Looks like a few kicks, not a list of bans?
16:51:34 <nirik> sadly, one of the spammer links is in there. ;(
16:51:43 <nirik> (please don't click on it :)
16:51:48 <hiemanshu> at the top
16:51:54 <fenris02> 94x sheesh
16:52:28 <hiemanshu> I am sure imageshack does not have 527 img servers
16:52:30 <fenris02> the host looks down anyhow
16:52:35 <EvilBob> In -social we had no kicks and one ban
16:52:38 <nirik> EvilBob: I think the second part talking about kicks was really bans.
16:53:00 <EvilBob> user posted a link to a porn banners site
16:53:05 <nirik> but I can only think of one ban in fedora recently.
16:53:17 * Southern_Gentlem 
16:53:23 <EvilBob> I set a 1 weekban using the bot so it should autoexpire
16:53:28 <nirik> ok, anything further on stats? Perhaps we could ask to get stats on unregistered as well...
16:53:48 <nirik> EvilBob: you may need to check that, the bot might have been restarted since then... and it forgets it's timer then. ;(
16:53:50 <fenris02> EvilBob, unless the bot restarts somewhere between when you set +1w and 1w later.
16:54:08 <EvilBob> THe Sonars are out of town on Family business
16:54:20 * nirik restarted the bot on the 18th.
16:54:28 <EvilBob> nirik fenris02: I have a note here somewhere
16:54:40 <nirik> ok, anything else on stats?
16:54:47 <EvilBob> if I never find it or forget it will get cleaned up someday
16:55:28 <nirik> #topic Open Floor
16:55:40 <nirik> ok, I had nothing else off hand... anyone have any items for open floor?
16:55:52 <fenris02> the new -uk channel
16:55:58 <nullsys> :)
16:56:00 <Southern_Gentlem> nirik,  fedbot in -uk??
16:56:04 <Southern_Gentlem> nirik,  fedbot in -uk??
16:56:12 <nirik> ah yes, there is a new #fedora-uk channel starting up.
16:56:13 <EvilBob> the point of -uk?
16:56:19 <nb> do we want zodbot in therE?
16:56:23 * nb can join it
16:56:26 <nullsys> My and MooDoo set it up
16:56:35 <nirik> nullsys: care to talk about the channel a bit?
16:56:40 <nirik> #topic #fedora-uk
16:56:41 <nullsys> Sure
16:56:46 <nb> .join #fedora-uk
16:56:52 <MooDoo> nirik: it's just a channel i thought we'd setup for uk users.
16:56:55 <EvilBob> Most #fedora-XX channels are for specific language support
16:57:10 <MooDoo> nothing special but it seems the people of the uk did want somewhere to go other than #fedora
16:57:13 <EvilBob> Last I checked those in the UK used English...
16:57:36 <Southern_Gentlem> basic to help organize UK people
16:57:36 <fenris02> MooDoo, purely out of curiosity - what reasons to they mention ?
16:57:45 <nirik> EvilBob: if we see someone type 'colour' we can send them there?
16:57:56 <nullsys> Myself and MooDoo are UK ambassadors. After I joined the ambassador group we had a discussion about the lack of response Fedora is seeing in the UK. So after speaking to rsc and a few other ambasadors we felt it would be a great idea to start a specific UK group were events, ideas and discussions could acumulate to a positive Fedora community for the UK
16:58:11 <EvilBob> nirik: or #fedora-Kanehdah
16:58:17 <nullsys> The positive response from the past 48 hours of it being active has been impressive.
16:58:22 <nirik> EvilBob: take off eh.
16:58:24 <Southern_Gentlem> ok guys the roads are getting bad so i am heading for the house
16:58:26 <MooDoo> fenris02: the ones i've spoken to, too busy, hard to get yourself heard, the odd one mentioned unhelpfulness [although i've experienced that]
16:58:33 <EvilBob> Southern_Gentlem: be safe
16:58:33 <nirik> Southern_Gentlem: drive safe.
16:58:43 <MooDoo> Southern_Gentlem: bye bye
16:58:47 <nullsys> Coupled with the website fedora-uk.org we have had new ambassador requests, new members, new irc users, new offers for freemedia distrobution and alot of requests to help with events and support
16:58:58 <fenris02> Southern_Gentlem, have a safe trip
16:59:07 <nirik> MooDoo: excellent. So we should point community folks that we notice that are in the uk your way?
16:59:09 <nullsys> THere is a specific mailing list, planet.* and hopefully a wiki/forum soon.
16:59:16 <fenris02> MooDoo, unhelpfulness = reading docs, or rudeness?
16:59:25 <EvilBob> Building Community is a great reason for the channel
16:59:26 <MooDoo> fenris02: rudeness
16:59:34 <fenris02> the fp.o page should mention -uk as well imho
16:59:41 <EvilBob> MooDoo: I resemble that remark
16:59:43 <nirik> yeah, can get it added there.
16:59:47 <nullsys> Thanks fenris02, that would be a great positive help to do that.
17:00:08 <nullsys> I have a blog on blogs.* and the room is also mentioned in two other places on the wiki
17:00:42 <EvilBob> Many people find someone pointing them to a document rude
17:00:59 <nullsys> spot is of course the owner of the channel, but we have also had help from VileGent, nirik and others. So I also just wanted to say thank you to everyone who has helped so far.
17:01:15 <fenris02> EvilBob, thats why i had to ask, to make exactly that distinction
17:01:19 <EvilBob> I have experienced this reaction from many including those from the UK
17:01:21 <nirik> excellent. If you guys need any further help, let us know!
17:01:30 <nullsys> will do, dont you worry ;)
17:01:36 <nirik> anything further on #fedora-uk ?
17:01:57 <MooDoo> nothing i can think of, approval would be good ;)
17:02:06 <EvilBob> Send those that need help to #fedora, send a chaperon if needed
17:02:29 <MooDoo> EvilBob: that's what we'd do anyway
17:02:30 <nullsys> Absolutely, we dont want to be an alternative for fedora channels, just somewhere specific for uk users.
17:02:32 <fenris02> anytime you have 500+ people, there will be some rude apples
17:03:02 <nullsys> thanks for letting us talk :)
17:03:11 <nirik> #topic Open Floor Redux
17:03:18 <nirik> ok, anything further before we close out?
17:03:35 <Dan_NH> thank you for having this meeting in the open.
17:04:13 <nullsys> I'd just like to say thanks to everyone for welcoming me to the community, im very new here but the support has been great.
17:04:26 <EvilBob> Just request to continue to be tolerant of others perhaps being more relaxed than you are or might expect
17:05:06 <nirik> Dan_NH: no problem. Thanks for coming. We really want more feedback from the community if we can get it...
17:05:11 <nirik> EvilBob: +1
17:05:21 <EvilBob> Just because someone likes to joke a bit does not mean that they should be "removed"
17:05:52 <EvilBob> Hope we have another Great week
17:06:05 <MooDoo> what about requesting ops for a channel?
17:06:06 <fenris02> that's a thin line EvilBob ... if the joke involves steering someone to breaking their system, it is not funny
17:06:06 <EvilBob> Oh and welcome hiemanshu
17:06:16 <hiemanshu> Thank you EvilBob :)
17:06:20 <fenris02> oh, we didnt welcome hiemanshu last week?  my bad
17:06:31 <nirik> MooDoo: which channel?
17:06:37 <MooDoo> #fedora-ambassadors
17:06:38 <nirik> oh yeah, welcome hiemanshu
17:06:47 <nirik> MooDoo: you would have to talk to spot about that...
17:06:48 <EvilBob> fenris02: setting the default runlevel to 6 is not breaking a system and is VERY funny... ;^)
17:06:54 <EvilBob> NOTE: Dont do this
17:06:57 <hiemanshu> EvilBob: +1
17:06:58 <MooDoo> nirik: ok thanks
17:07:05 <hiemanshu> nirik, fenris02 : Thank you :)
17:07:10 <nirik> thanks for coming everyone!
17:07:19 <EvilBob> Buhbye
17:07:21 <nirik> #endmeeting