Note - these logs have been slightly redacted due to spam. The originals are available to the infrastructure team if required

02:00:21 <StabbyMc> #startmeeting
02:00:21 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Dec  2 02:00:21 2009 UTC.  The chair is StabbyMc. Information about MeetBot at
02:00:21 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
02:00:34 <StabbyMc> #topic Fedora Ambassadors NA - Rollcall
02:00:48 <VileGent> .fasinfo jbwillia
02:00:49 <zodbot> VileGent: User: jbwillia, Name: Ben Williams, email:, Creation: 2006-04-17, IRC Nick: Southern_Gentleman, Timezone: US/Eastern, Locale: en, Extension: 5100572, GPG key ID: 295A4FBC, Status: active
02:00:53 <StabbyMc> .fas smcbrien
02:00:53 <zodbot> VileGent: Approved Groups: cla_done ambassadors freemedia cla_fedora gitcourses irc-support-operators
02:00:56 <djf_jeff> .fas jfsaucier
02:00:57 <zodbot> VileGent: Unapproved Groups: None
02:00:59 <mock> .fasinfo mock
02:01:01 <zodbot> StabbyMc: smcbrien '' <>
02:01:05 <zodbot> djf_jeff: jfsaucier 'Jean-Francois Saucier' <>
02:01:08 <zodbot> mock: User: mock, Name: None, email:, Creation: 2008-07-25, IRC Nick: mock, Timezone: None, Locale: None, Extension: 5111336, GPG key ID: None, Status: active
02:01:11 <etank> .fasinfo etank
02:01:12 <zodbot> mock: Approved Groups: cla_done cla_fedora
02:01:16 <zodbot> mock: Unapproved Groups: fedorabugs ambassadors
02:01:19 <ke4qqq> .fas ke4qqq
02:01:25 <zodbot> etank: User: etank, Name: Eric Lake, email:, Creation: 2009-11-22, IRC Nick: etank, Timezone: America/New_York, Locale: en, Extension: 5140933, GPG key ID: 5A5151D6, Status: active
02:01:28 <dnhodgson> .fas dnhodgson
02:01:28 <zodbot> etank: Approved Groups: cla_done ambassadors cla_fedora
02:01:32 <zodbot> etank: Unapproved Groups: None
02:01:36 <zodbot> ke4qqq: ke4qqq 'David Nalley' <>
02:01:40 <zodbot> dnhodgson: dnhodgson 'Darcy Hodgson' <>
02:02:04 <Will_> Hi, sorry if I am late
02:02:10 <Ac-town> .fas actown
02:02:14 <StabbyMc> no worries, just doing roll call
02:02:15 <zodbot> Ac-town: actown 'Derrick Dymock' <> - acactown 'Acac Town' <>
02:03:13 <StabbyMc> Any more roll call?
02:03:20 <Will_> .fas wmorri
02:03:21 <zodbot> Will_: gwmorris 'Gary W. Morris' <> - wmorri 'William Morris' <>
02:03:44 <Will_> I am the second one
02:04:23 <StabbyMc> #topic Fedora Ambassadors NA - Announcements
02:04:47 <StabbyMc> The only announcement I've got is that I recieved my twill Fedora buttonup.
02:05:04 <StabbyMc> I'll be posting pictures later; let the oohs and aahs commence :-)
02:05:30 <StabbyMc> Anyone else have announcements?
02:05:47 <dnhodgson> FUDcon is this weekend
02:05:53 <inode0> still one board and one fesco town hall this week
02:06:19 <inode0>
02:07:30 <StabbyMc> #topic Fedora Ambassadors NA - Events
02:07:58 <StabbyMc> So as dnhodgson pointed out, FUDcon this weekend.
02:08:31 <StabbyMc> I don't know if you all saw lcafiero's e-mail about Scale
02:08:41 <StabbyMc> But vwbusguy is the owner of that event now.
02:09:10 <StabbyMc> So probably next meeting we'll be syncing up on what has to be shipped from to where and whatnot for that in January
02:09:18 * inode0 applauds vwbusguy
02:09:38 <inode0> if we have anything to ship :)
02:10:08 <StabbyMc> inode0: lets  discuss that in "Budget Review"
02:10:09 <VileGent> the V banners are wanted to scale
02:10:53 <StabbyMc> who has them now?
02:11:09 <StabbyMc> the west coast crew from SLC?
02:11:25 <inode0> they are going to FUDCon
02:11:55 <VileGent> jds2001, has them
02:12:32 <StabbyMc> has them being shipped to FUDCon?
02:12:43 <VileGent> jds2001, has them
02:13:01 <VileGent> and will be carrying them to the bus to fudcon
02:13:33 <StabbyMc> OK.  who's going to be at FUDCon and will ship them to vwbusguy?
02:13:49 <jds2001> VileGent: I will be there
02:14:00 <jds2001> VileGent: i will be personally carrying them
02:14:03 * ke4qqq imagines it'd be cheapest to bring them back across the border and ship them ups
02:14:32 <StabbyMc> jds2001: can you bring them back and ship 'em?
02:14:35 * inode0 thinks jds2001 should hold on to them in case something else pops up first
02:14:37 <jds2001> probably, when does vwbusguy need em?
02:14:45 <VileGent> feb
02:15:04 <jds2001> oh, yeah, I'll hang on to em til like jan 15 in that case?
02:15:46 <StabbyMc> Should be good unless something else crops up.
02:16:24 <djf_jeff> if we talk about events, I will go to a local radio show about free software on Dec 16th to present Fedora, podcast will be available for french speaking people
02:16:38 <djf_jeff> ;)
02:16:39 <StabbyMc> Other event news?  The Events page is looking pretty slim.
02:16:45 <StabbyMc> djf_jeff: Nice!
02:17:16 <ke4qqq> djf_jeff: awesome - lets make sure you blog that in advance and after the fact!
02:18:14 <djf_jeff> ke4qqq: sure, I will also promote F12 release party that take place Dec 17th in Quebec, good free publicity ;)
02:20:49 <StabbyMc> #topic Fedora Ambassadors NA - Budget Review.
02:21:31 <StabbyMc> inode0: so you were saying about having no stuff?
02:22:16 <StabbyMc> is spevack here tonight?
02:23:11 <StabbyMc> inode0: you were saying about having no stuff to ship?
02:23:35 * ke4qqq notes we just started a new fiscal quarter and thus new budget cycle
02:23:59 <ke4qqq> and we essentially reserved enough for the balance of media costs, tshirts, case badges and a few other things
02:24:29 <StabbyMc> So now it's just a matter of doing the ordering?
02:24:48 <inode0> sorry, distracted and here we go again
02:24:56 <ke4qqq> that's my understanding
02:25:09 <ke4qqq> make sure inode concurs with my memory of things though
02:25:38 <spevack> i'm here
02:25:41 <StabbyMc> So do we tag the original orderers to re-order again?
02:25:44 <spevack> a bit late, but I'm here.  sorry!
02:25:52 <StabbyMc> spevack: just in time.
02:26:28 * spevack reads backward
02:26:44 <spevack> bottom line -- we need to buy more swag?
02:26:49 <StabbyMc> Yep
02:27:01 <ke4qqq> spevack: yeah we talked about what we needed to order a month or two back
02:27:14 <ObamasTheMan> CummyFarts: Why don't you?
02:27:27 <ke4qqq> VileGent: can you address this?
02:27:52 <VileGent> not in here i cant
02:28:16 <spevack> well we just started the new quarter, so now's the time to buy everything we need
02:28:31 <spevack> CDs are already taken care of
02:28:39 <ke4qqq> spend early and spend often :)
02:29:02 <spevack> what is going on?  :P
02:29:04 <StabbyMc> spevack: what are we looking at for budget?
02:29:14 <jds2001> spevack: we have first rate trolls.
02:29:16 <StabbyMc> Tabmow: little help?
02:29:21 <nirik> Tabmow: can you help us out here? we are trying to have a meeting.
02:29:23 <jds2001> spevack: they infested #rhel a few seconds ago
02:29:36 <VileGent> guys /ignore them
02:29:44 <jds2001> Tabmow: thx, you're the best
02:29:54 <Tabmow> No problems.
02:30:03 <spevack> jds2001: this is by no means first-rate trolling
02:30:04 <nirik> Tabmow: thank you very much.
02:30:12 <spevack> I give it at best a B-
02:30:43 <skvidal> hi
02:30:47 <skvidal> whay am I needed?
02:30:55 <spevack> StabbyMc: setting aside the money we've already spent on media, I'd like to figure out how much of what we need $3,500 or so gets us, and then maybe we'll add more budget after Jan 1 when I see how other regions' needs start to shape up.
02:30:57 <jds2001> skvidal: Tabmow took care of it.
02:31:11 <spevack> so do we have a wishlist of stuff we're ready to buy?
02:31:19 <spevack> $3,500 tends to go a pretty long way on our swag needs.
02:31:29 <ObamasTheMan> Tabmow: Why did you do that?
02:31:29 <StabbyMc> replacement case badges
02:31:47 <StabbyMc> inode0: what else was on the list?
02:31:50 <ke4qqq> tshirts, and casebadges
02:32:00 <etank> <newb question> where does the budget come from? donataions? red hat? etc.
02:32:06 <ObamasTheMan> Can I help?
02:32:11 <spevack> etank: i can answer that
02:32:15 <ke4qqq> etank: RHT gives to commarch, and commarch gives to us
02:32:20 <ObamasTheMan> If you give me some of the swag, I can get you donations.
02:32:42 <spevack> etank: Red Hat's Community Architecture team has a bunch of budget for building communities that are important to Red Hat.  Fedora is obviously at the top of that list.
02:32:52 <StabbyMc> ObamasTheMan: thanks for the offer, I'll chat with you after the meeting, k?
02:33:27 <spevack> I'm the manager of that team, and one of the things I do each quarter is set aside a chunk of the CommArch budget for big Fedora events -- like FUDCons and Fedora Activity Days -- and another chunk for general regional support worldwide.
02:33:32 <spevack> That's what we're discussing now,
02:33:36 <spevack> for some history and context, see here:
02:33:42 <ObamasTheMan> I have to go now, sorry. There's a Pakistani trying to kill me.
02:33:56 <spevack> etank:
02:34:09 <etank> thanks for filling me in spevack. it helps me understand whats going on some.
02:34:44 <djf_jeff> I want to know if there could be some discussion about budget for a Canadian EventBox in the near future?
02:34:44 <spevack> etank: more specifically --
02:35:13 <spevack> djf_jeff: I've got no problem with that.
02:35:22 <ke4qqq> djf_jeff: can we get that ordered during fudcon?
02:35:44 <spevack> StabbyMc: I'd like to spend around $8k total in NA this quarter.
02:35:50 <spevack> at least as a starting point
02:35:51 <ke4qqq> lots of commarch plastic should be close at hand to help you
02:35:57 <spevack> :)
02:36:05 <etank> there was some talk on the mailing list about not doing install DVDs. how does that get decided? what is the cost associated with the DVD creation and where would the money be spent if not on their creation?
02:36:06 <djf_jeff> ke4qqq: that would be nice for me!
02:36:25 <spevack> etank: these decisions are discussed and made at this very meeting, or on the fedora-ambassadors-list
02:36:39 <ke4qqq> etank: media is made regionally, so each region decides that
02:36:41 <spevack> some of it has to do with demand -- what sorts of media people ask for
02:36:46 <StabbyMc> spevack: and by this quarter you mean Q4FY10 which started today?
02:36:51 <spevack> StabbyMc: that's right.
02:37:20 * spevack wants to start building up that budget page for this quarter.
02:37:26 * spevack looks up the cost of the media
02:37:45 <StabbyMc> media wasn't paid Q3?
02:37:52 <inode0> May I interject one comment about case badges?
02:37:54 <StabbyMc> or out of Q3 budget?
02:38:03 <ke4qqq> inode0: please
02:38:33 <inode0> There is a horrific startup cost on those with a tipping point at around $1000
02:38:50 <inode0> then the price gets cheap and constant
02:38:51 <spevack> StabbyMc: it was not.  Q3 was filled up with other regions, so media is being done in this quarter.  It won't be a problem though, I assure you.
02:39:20 <StabbyMc> spevack: no worries, just a little confused :-)
02:39:24 <inode0> so basically they work out to about $1 each for the first 1000 and then about 10 cents each after that
02:39:37 <etank> inode0: could the budget for case badges be shared amongst the other regions to get the numbers up and the price down?
02:39:59 * spevack looks at the previous years
02:40:04 <inode0> so I would encourage us to try to plan case badge purchases in higher volume less regularly
02:40:14 <spevack> last year we split the Fedora 10 media costs across Q4 and Q1!
02:40:17 <Ac-town> inode0: Are those case badges high quality?
02:40:24 <inode0> very high
02:40:29 <StabbyMc> Ac-town: they're nice.
02:40:39 <Ac-town> Like ones you get with your mobo?
02:40:42 <spevack> so we've spent about $4k on media.  Which means we should put together a shopping list in order of desire, and spend up to another $4k, then take stock of where we are in relation to other regions.
02:40:48 <spevack> the case badges are REALLY NICE
02:40:49 <StabbyMc> Ac-town: yes.
02:40:50 <spevack> i was blown away
02:40:52 <Ac-town> +1
02:40:59 <etank> the case badges are the "powered by Fedora" one inch badges right?
02:41:12 <StabbyMc> etank: yes
02:41:13 <djf_jeff> inode0: +1
02:41:43 <jds2001> i still have some case badges around.
02:41:50 <jds2001> im gonna bring what ive got to fudcon
02:42:01 <ke4qqq> jds2001: don't tell anyone, virtually none are left :)
02:42:06 <StabbyMc> inode0: so are you wanting to go heavy into case badges this quarter, add a couple of tees, and then order other new swag items in following quarters to round out supply?
02:42:07 <jds2001> minus the f11 media that's fairly useless :)
02:42:09 <inode0> spevack: etank asked a great question
02:42:31 <inode0> would other regions like to piggy-bag on a case badge order you think?
02:42:40 <inode0> piggy-back
02:42:42 <spevack> There's an EMEA ambassadors meeting tomorrow -- if someone posts a digital picture of the badges we can recommend making a Giant Amount and sharing the cost.  just as etank suggested
02:42:48 <spevack> my guess is there would be no objection at all
02:43:04 <etank> inode0: you have some pics of them right?
02:43:17 <ke4qqq> spevack: and we'd just withhold their amount from the quarterly payment to fedora emea?
02:43:22 <inode0> I'm getting a 403 now
02:43:27 <ke4qqq> s/we'd/you'd/
02:43:47 <spevack> ke4qqq: yeah, I'd just tag some amount of that total cost w/ EMEA and that would show up when I add up the totals per region
02:44:20 <VileGent> and would latam be interested as well
02:44:43 * spevack emails ambassadors-list with this question.
02:44:50 <ke4qqq> +1
02:45:10 <spevack> Can we get a price quote for something like 5,000?
02:45:26 <inode0> we want more than that actually
02:45:32 <spevack> well, whatever :)
02:45:38 <spevack> it helps that they are light and thus cheap to ship
02:45:47 <StabbyMc> So that turns us back to my earlier question about replenishment.
02:45:59 <inode0> iirc they are about $1000 for the first 1000, the next 3000 cost about $300 more
02:46:12 <StabbyMc> Do we get davidunc to do the order again, or does someone else take care of it or what?
02:46:32 <inode0> I'd like to pay that initial $1000 a lot less often
02:46:43 <spevack> inode0: haha
02:46:48 <spevack> yeah, we should buy a LOT
02:46:54 <etank> it would be nice if the company that they are ordered from would split the shippment up into each region and ship directly to a contact there
02:47:00 * spevack is laughing at the mental graph of that pricing structure
02:47:13 <spevack> etank: if we give them the right addresses, I'm sure they will
02:47:27 <etank> that could save more costs at least
02:47:27 <ke4qqq> etank: that has historically ended badly for us
02:47:32 <Ac-town> Yeah, the initial $1000 is painful.
02:47:44 <spevack> So in theory we can about 10k badges for $2k, inode?
02:47:44 <ke4qqq> etank: we end up paying either way - they charge us shipping or we absorb it later
02:47:50 <etank> ke4qqq: yeah i could see some room for error and headaches
02:48:09 <spevack> inode0: more or less...
02:48:11 <inode0> I think so, if we get the same arrangement as last time
02:48:14 <VileGent> so for 3k we would have about 21K
02:48:15 <ke4qqq> and those badges have been INCREDIBLY popular
02:48:27 <spevack> well, then we should basically buy a year's supply for the whole world.
02:48:40 <spevack> right?
02:48:42 <ke4qqq> +1 to a year of case badges for THE WORLD
02:48:48 <etank> +1
02:48:53 <djf_jeff> +1 ;)
02:49:06 <StabbyMc> So who's owning case badge pricing, ordering, shipping, etc. ?
02:49:07 <Ac-town> +1
02:49:34 <ke4qqq> I'd prefer david duncan, or someone new, but failing either of those I will.
02:49:45 <spevack> who did it the first time?  It should be that person and me working together
02:49:57 <ke4qqq> davdunc
02:50:53 <StabbyMc> davdunc who is not here tonight.
02:50:55 <spevack> ok, give me the action items of (1) getting a +1 from the rest of the ambassadors, which is pretty much a formality, (2) finding davdunc and either (3) working with him or (4) calling the company myself and seeing if they still have our specs
02:51:23 <StabbyMc> spevack: davdunc is on the Events page with an event in January, so he's still around.
02:51:47 <spevack> cool -- I'll try to make most of this happen before heading to toronto, otherwise I'll do it at FUDCon
02:51:54 <ke4qqq> email is best contact for him, he's pretty responsive, just not on irc because of $dayjob net restrictions
02:52:13 <spevack> sounds good
02:52:15 <spevack> easy as pie
02:52:37 <inode0> slight correction
02:52:38 <etank> he was Last seen  : Nov 11 06:27:11 2009 (2 weeks, 6 days, 20:24:52 ago)
02:53:00 <StabbyMc> #action spevack works on case badges (1) conglomerating world wide ordering for badges (2) working with davdunc for ordering (3) ordering
02:53:09 <inode0> I think they were $180/1000 after the first 1000 but the same idea
02:53:38 <spevack> #link
02:53:43 * spevack starts a list on that page
02:53:51 <StabbyMc> Tee shirts?
02:53:55 <inode0> we got those from New Mexico,  davdunc was the tattoo man who we don't need to bother again yet
02:54:28 * ke4qqq thought StabbyMc was the tats man - ohhh well what do I know
02:54:30 <inode0> personally I could wait for Q1 for case badges if that enables a bigger order
02:54:35 <StabbyMc> inode0: ok the casebadge person nick started with a t?
02:54:50 <StabbyMc> ke4qqq: I'm the pen guy.
02:54:52 <inode0> dthomasdigital iirc was his nick
02:55:00 <spevack> inode0: especially sharing the cost across regions, I don't think there's any need to wait.
02:55:01 <StabbyMc> ayah.
02:55:11 <inode0> ok
02:55:11 <StabbyMc> .fas dthomasdigital
02:55:12 <zodbot> StabbyMc: dthomasdigital '' <>
02:55:15 * spevack is getting a phone call that he needs to take.  Will read backwards in a bit.
02:55:23 <inode0> assuming he can do it again
02:55:36 <StabbyMc> yep, but spevack said he'd look him up.
02:55:47 <StabbyMc> Are we putting tees on the wishlist too?
02:55:48 <ke4qqq> anyone new want to take up the tshirt replenishment?
02:56:17 <inode0> does DemonJester want to relinquish doing that?
02:56:48 <ke4qqq> just thinking we should share the tasklist around a bit.
02:56:49 <dnhodgson> There is a company up here in Canada i have worked with on clothing. i can look into pricing
02:56:59 * maxamillion is ultra late ... very sorry, just got home
02:57:16 <StabbyMc> maxamillion: we're still talking budget
02:57:33 <jds2001> maxamillion: YOU have all the action items :D
02:57:50 <maxamillion> jds2001: oh noes!
02:57:57 <maxamillion> StabbyMc: wow, nice
02:58:15 <maxamillion> StabbyMc: where was that on the list of topics for the meeting?
02:58:29 <StabbyMc> maxamillion Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See for meeting schedule
02:58:36 <StabbyMc> damn, I fail
02:58:52 <maxamillion> yes .. yes you do
02:58:56 <ke4qqq> I am sure maxamillion needed to know that
02:58:57 <StabbyMc>
02:59:16 * StabbyMc blames paste buffer
02:59:59 <StabbyMc> dnhodgson: I wouldn't mind seeing pricing; though in the past the international shipping has killed the budget.
03:00:36 <Will_> there is also a couple of companies up where I live that I could talk to about prices
03:00:39 <ke4qqq> dnhodgson: and even if we produce in US, doesn't mean you can't do it - our traditional supplier just bills max
03:01:24 <inode0> for shirts here is the thing from my perspective
03:02:01 <inode0> I think it is more efficient with a lot less duplicated effort if once we have a supplier and process identified that works and that we are happy with we stick with it
03:02:12 <maxamillion> inode0: +1
03:02:14 * spevack agrees
03:02:18 <ke4qqq> +1 - unless there is a significant advantage to moving away
03:02:20 <StabbyMc> the shirt supplier is on the wiki *somewhere*
03:02:30 <spevack> stick with people until we become unhappy for an unfixable reason
03:02:35 <StabbyMc> however, with the current economic conditions, there are deals to be had.
03:02:35 <inode0> So unless someone can beat the current prices we pay I think we are better off staying with the same supplier
03:02:37 <maxamillion> is there possibly an online retailer that would be more cost effective than a local one?
03:02:50 <ke4qqq>
03:03:07 <ke4qqq> ian-shirts or older white shirt with logo?
03:03:30 <ianweller> *erhemm*
03:03:34 <ianweller> the correct name is "splatter">
03:03:43 <ianweller> ;)
03:03:44 * inode0 doesn't mind others investigating options if they want to
03:03:58 <StabbyMc> I like the splatter shirts, but I know they're much more expensive to produce.
03:04:24 <inode0> I also have a slight preference to go back to the white shirts this time around because we can get a lot more for the same price
03:04:26 * ke4qqq <3 my ian-shirt
03:04:56 <inode0> the splatter shirts are the coolest Fedora shirts ever
03:05:06 <maxamillion> is the price difference because of the shirt color or because of the screen print cost?
03:05:13 <VileGent> but they are also the most expensive
03:05:15 <StabbyMc> inode0: I actually wear my splatter shirt.  The white ones I gave them all away.
03:05:29 <inode0> 6 times through the machine as opposed to 3 as I recall
03:05:37 <StabbyMc> maxamillion: splatter has more screened colors
03:06:03 <etank> anyone have a pic of the shirts being discussed?
03:06:13 <inode0> think about it from the perspective of random conference attendee
03:06:22 <inode0> does that person care as much as we do?
03:06:47 <maxamillion> StabbyMc: gotchya
03:07:05 <StabbyMc> etank:
03:07:06 <Will_> inode0: I agree they won't care as much
03:07:26 <maxamillion> I keep my white one and wear it when i give talks, but every shirt I own is a dark color because I seem to stain white shirts like crazy
03:07:32 <maxamillion> (well almost every shirt I own)
03:07:38 <etank> StabbyMc: that is a nice one
03:07:40 <VileGent> i can tell you that they rather have a shirt than no shirt
03:08:03 <inode0>
03:08:04 <etank> i think i remember seeing the white ones at OLF in 2008 (they didnt give me one though)
03:08:08 <VileGent> from my experience at Ohio Linuxfest last year
03:08:09 <mock> i need to go. will catch up on meeting notes later.
03:08:20 <maxamillion> StabbyMc: ooo the splatter t-shirt is awesome
03:08:22 * inode0 doesn't think that is supposed to be the url but it is what works at the moment
03:08:47 <etank> VileGent: i think that getting shirts is one of the main reason that some people go to OLF
03:09:01 <maxamillion> inode0: I do really like the idea of case badges ... did I miss the convo on those due to my tardiness?
03:09:12 <VileGent> yes
03:09:23 <ke4qqq> maxamillion: we are ordering case badges for the ENTIRE WORLD
03:09:23 <inode0> <- better url
03:09:25 <maxamillion> fail ... ok, I'll read the logs then
03:09:31 <maxamillion> ke4qqq: +1 :)
03:09:49 <VileGent> etank we didnt have any in 2009 and still had lots of traffic
03:10:07 <inode0> what about other swag?
03:10:18 <inode0> we probably have 1000 pens
03:10:30 <inode0> should we order more buttons?
03:10:34 <ke4qqq> cost?
03:10:36 <maxamillion> oh love my pen, actually sparked a convo with someone in one of my graduate comp sci courses
03:10:37 * StabbyMc is meh about buttons
03:10:42 <maxamillion> because of the pen*
03:10:56 <VileGent> StabbyMc,  but they seem popular
03:10:57 * StabbyMc would like a nice vynl sticker
03:11:01 <ke4qqq> my pens keep getting stolen by IT colleagues.
03:11:08 * ke4qqq would like a cling
03:11:09 <maxamillion> I like my buttons, they are crowd pleasers for talks and easily attach to backpacks and other forms of book bag
03:11:14 * etank would like to have a mousepad
03:11:27 <maxamillion> mousepads would be nice, but I imagine they would be expensive
03:11:28 <jds2001> arent mousepads expensive?
03:11:32 <etank> prolly too expensive
03:11:32 <VileGent> yes
03:11:45 <inode0> ok, what we would like is one thing. What is popular at a booth?
03:11:46 <etank> still would be cool to have
03:12:03 <VileGent> case badges
03:12:26 <inode0> we have those covered
03:12:26 <dnhodgson> how about patches? like ones that can be sewed to backpacks.
03:12:26 <ke4qqq> +1 case badges and shirts
03:12:26 <StabbyMc> pens
03:12:26 <StabbyMc> tees
03:12:26 <StabbyMc> stickers
03:12:45 <maxamillion> StabbyMc: +1, +1, +1
03:13:06 <etank> shirts are huge imo. those plus the case badges would be a big hit.
03:13:12 <VileGent> case badges, tshirts, 3" voice label , rectangle Fedora sticker, tats
03:13:14 <StabbyMc> dnhodgson: those are spendy unless ordered in super huge bulk.
03:13:28 <ke4qqq> dnhodgson: etank: work up proposals for what you'd like to see, hard to make a decision without knowing the cost.
03:13:34 <VileGent> thats what i see as popular from the 2 shows i help with
03:13:59 <ke4qqq> fedora cookies too :)
03:14:06 <StabbyMc> I was working on clings, but put it on hold until I got the button-up shirt done
03:14:12 <StabbyMc> So I'll start up on clings again.
03:14:27 <etank> ke4qqq: more than what i said a sec ago?
03:14:29 <maxamillion> etank: i think case badges would be quite good as well
03:14:35 <StabbyMc> #action dnhodgson works up pricing on replenishment tee shirts
03:14:46 <inode0> can we stop talking about case badges now?
03:14:49 <StabbyMc> #action StabbyMc gets pricing for window clings
03:15:04 <ke4qqq> etank: uhhh yeah - get us varying quantities and prices, preferably from at least two artwork for the design.
03:15:20 <StabbyMc> artwork for tees we have
03:15:24 <ke4qqq> etank: you should act like you are coming to us asking for the money to do it.....
03:15:30 <ke4qqq> because you are
03:15:33 <StabbyMc> clings I've got the Finity
03:16:00 <ke4qqq> ideas are great - but someone actually has to do the legwork.
03:16:24 <StabbyMc> It's been an hour + 15 and we still haven't gotten to the big topic, or at least big topic IMO.
03:16:25 <ke4qqq> and then place the order
03:16:38 <ke4qqq> +1 for moving to the topic
03:16:48 <maxamillion> StabbyMc: what's a window cling?
03:17:47 <StabbyMc> #topic Fedora Ambassadors NA - Discussion Item Media Production
03:17:55 <ke4qqq> maxamillion:
03:18:05 <maxamillion> ke4qqq: yeah yeah, already there ... but thanks :)
03:18:12 <ke4qqq> :)
03:18:35 <ke4qqq> StabbyMc: are we looking for a decision on this tonight?
03:18:50 <StabbyMc> ke4qqq: I'd like one
03:19:07 <StabbyMc> ke4qqq: though I'd be ok with tabling until next meeting too since it's getting so late.
03:19:13 <StabbyMc> But the topic keeps coming back.
03:19:21 <StabbyMc> So I'd like to finally put a nail in it and be done.
03:19:33 <inode0> Well we can't really put a nail in it
03:19:43 <jds2001> why not?
03:19:49 <inode0> What if F13 only has DVDs + netinst?
03:20:04 <jds2001> it will have livecd's
03:20:09 <jds2001> that's the point :)
03:20:18 <ke4qqq> will it have livedvds?
03:20:29 <jds2001> ke4qqq: it may, i see what you mean
03:20:30 <ke4qqq> ie - more content on the live media we produce
03:20:40 <ke4qqq> bah s/ie/eg/
03:20:45 <inode0> I don't know what it will have but in a nutshell
03:20:47 * jds2001 was thinking more "live media"
03:21:00 <inode0> I favor producing only live media for distribution at shows
03:21:01 <jds2001> i am +1 for creating only live media, be that CD or DVD.
03:21:24 <ke4qqq> me thinks we should decide livemedia vs cd vs dvd and then ask fesco or releng to decide livecd vs livedvd
03:21:29 <StabbyMc> I'd like a media that can be either
03:21:47 <jds2001> StabbyMc: that would be great, huh? :)
03:21:48 <ke4qqq> StabbyMc: livedvd + netinst?
03:22:01 <jds2001> actually not a bad idea.
03:22:20 <VileGent> i think untill we know what exactly is going to happen we really cant tell
03:22:20 <inode0> I suspect he meant live+install DVD
03:22:29 <poelcat> there was discussion on desktop list that led me to believe live CD is dead and that install image will be > 1G, most likely targetting a 2 G USB drive
03:22:30 <jds2001> two different boot targets to either boot into the livedvd or netinst
03:22:42 <maxamillion> ooo, I do like the liveCD + netinstall idea
03:22:58 <poelcat> i raised the livecd issue and a few people said it would be a live dvd instead
03:23:02 <inode0> can't one netinst from a liveCD now?
03:23:04 <djf_jeff> why would you do a netinst when you have the complete dvd with you?
03:23:11 <maxamillion> I wonder how much space that would take up from the livecd
03:23:12 <jds2001> we would actually have room to do that on a dvd, we just need releng to tell us how feasible that is.
03:23:12 * ke4qqq suggests we tell fesco that we are considering only doing livemedia and that livemedia+netinst on a single iso would be cool, or livedvd and to figure out what the future will be for f13 and make a decision after they respond
03:23:17 <VileGent> +1 livemedia only for distrubuteing at shows
03:23:19 <jds2001> maxamillion: about 200mb
03:23:36 <maxamillion> jds2001: oh ... damn
03:23:49 <jds2001> maxamillion: unacceptable for a livecd, but when you have dvd space to play with, it's fine
03:23:55 <inode0> liveDVD is fine, it costs more but the point is to not produce 3 difference sorts of media really
03:23:56 <maxamillion> jds2001: true
03:24:04 <maxamillion> inode0: +1
03:24:05 <inode0> and to produce what is most useful at shows
03:24:14 <maxamillion> inode0: next decide on 32-bit vs. 64-bit
03:24:16 <maxamillion> :)
03:24:20 <StabbyMc> my big complaint with live only is that I like to install, with all my options; if I've gone to the trouble of getting media at a show, I should be able to have a nifty install, not just live distro copied to my disk.
03:24:42 <jds2001> StabbyMc: that would be the netinst boot option
03:24:48 <ke4qqq> StabbyMc: does netinst solve that for you?
03:24:48 <maxamillion> StabbyMc: that's what the netinst is for
03:24:48 <inode0> now 32 and 64 can be merged, but I don't know if it will be
03:25:09 <maxamillion> inode0: if we go liveDVD I think we should be able to
03:25:11 <VileGent> motions to table
03:25:12 <ke4qqq> jds2001: is that a decision we'd ask fesco to make or releng?
03:25:22 <jds2001> ke4qqq: both :)
03:25:30 <maxamillion> ke4qqq: might even include the desktop team
03:25:32 * ke4qqq seconds VileGent's motion but referring the 'what will happen question' to fesco
03:25:33 <StabbyMc> i suppose netinst would solve that, unless I could install off of a local disk based repo *hint* *hint*
03:25:38 <inode0> they have a different target audience
03:25:49 <jds2001> StabbyMc: why couldnt you with netinst?
03:25:53 <inode0> we can explain our audience, but don't expect ours to carry the day
03:26:01 <maxamillion> inode0: rgr that
03:26:06 <jds2001> require some boot incantations, but i think it'd work.
03:26:33 <StabbyMc> jds2001: netinst requires net to inst.
03:26:49 * ke4qqq also suggests we consider offering kde livemedia since we are dropping one form of media with this proposal.
03:26:55 <jds2001> i think you can pass repo= to anaconda
03:27:02 <jds2001> netinst has a full stage2
03:27:14 <maxamillion> ke4qqq: but that would now make 2 forms of media ... a gnome and a kde
03:27:14 * inode0 wants to comment on KDE media
03:27:28 <ke4qqq> maxamillion: indeed
03:27:32 <maxamillion> which would be counter productive in my opinion considering the goal
03:27:55 <inode0> thinks it might be worth an experiment to try, but has seen no demand for it at conferences and has not heard of any demand from anyone else
03:28:06 <jds2001> same here
03:28:19 <ke4qqq> so we used to do x86 live and install and x86_64 live and install - we could potentially do x86 gnome livedvd+netinst and x86_64 gnome livedvd+netinst and x86 kde...... etc
03:28:39 <inode0> so I also wouldn't object to not producing KDE live media either
03:28:43 * ke4qqq thinks it is schroedingers cat
03:28:54 <StabbyMc> And yet we want to only produce one disk, yes?
03:28:58 <inode0> people ask for other things
03:29:03 <maxamillion> StabbyMc: bingo
03:29:10 <ke4qqq> I don't know - but we have a number of people who are 'doing the work' who are interested in it.
03:29:36 <inode0> well, we can decide what live media much later
03:29:38 <maxamillion> ke4qqq: doing what work?
03:29:55 <ke4qqq> maxamillion: contributing to fedora
03:29:57 <inode0> assuming we decide only live media to begin with
03:30:04 <ke4qqq> yeah lots of assumptions
03:30:12 <maxamillion> ke4qqq: ah, ok .. i thought you meant something more specific and i wasn't familiar with the scope of the work
03:30:21 <maxamillion> don't mind me
03:30:24 <StabbyMc> we could adopt the theory that we just do it for F13 and see what happens.
03:30:39 <ke4qqq> perhaps we should change just a single thing at a time
03:30:46 <inode0> people will take whatever is on the table is what will happen
03:31:05 <StabbyMc> I'm cool as long as I can get a real install off of whatever media is produced.
03:31:19 <StabbyMc> so if that works for x86 live, I vote for that.
03:31:36 <spevack> #link
03:31:36 <ke4qqq> so what's the action item from this??? can we send jds2001 to get fesco to prognosticate for us?
03:31:56 * jds2001 is not on fesco for much longer :)
03:32:08 <jds2001> though I am certaintly willing to interface with them :)
03:32:09 * StabbyMc slaps jds2001 with a lame duck!
03:32:15 <inode0> I would say x86 live and install is wildly popular at shows, x86_64 still much less
03:32:32 <ke4qqq> but hasn't fesco said we want to promote 64bit?
03:32:35 <inode0> In freemedia almost no requests for live media and few for x86_64 as well
03:32:56 <ke4qqq> recent conversations aside - isn't freemedia a different market
03:33:20 <inode0> yes, we wouldn't expect live media requests there
03:33:58 <VileGent> ke4qqq,  put isnt that the same type of market as the shows
03:34:29 <ke4qqq> VileGent: I don't think so - I don't think con attendees lack adequate bandwidth generally.
03:34:36 <ke4qqq> I also think them more likely to have 64 bit hardware
03:34:51 <ke4qqq> but that's just a rough feel - inode0 actually has numbers to put with it
03:34:58 <ke4qqq> from the freemedia side
03:35:58 <inode0> I can just estimate that the requests I see in north america from free media are probably 10 or 20 x86 DVD for each other request
03:36:00 <VileGent> ke4qqq,  at OLF live media then 32bit install moved faster same at SELF
03:36:36 <inode0> that is my conference experience too
03:37:12 <VileGent> so my opinion we do 32 bit
03:37:28 * maxamillion has never been to a conference so will mostly keep quiet on this topic
03:37:34 <VileGent> and look at this again on the next release
03:37:44 <inode0> I'm against doing the install DVD because I think very few people ever use them from conferences
03:37:53 <inode0> and the few who do could download it
03:38:14 <StabbyMc> So we're positing for F13 that we only produce x86 live media
03:38:20 <StabbyMc> ?
03:38:35 <inode0> I wasn't thinking that
03:38:48 <ke4qqq> StabbyMc: /me votes to send the question as to what type of isos fedora will have - and specifically ask for livedvd + netinst for f13
03:38:50 <inode0> in fact, I hope the live media for F13 is dual arch
03:39:32 <StabbyMc> so forgive me, I am old and tired.
03:39:33 <ke4qqq> and ask for inode0's dual arch livedvds
03:39:34 <inode0> ask for dual arch too, that would save us money :)
03:39:50 <Will_> i think dual arch would be a lot of fun
03:39:53 <StabbyMc> do we have an action item out of all this?
03:39:59 <jds2001> sure
03:40:01 <StabbyMc> If so, what is it and who is going to take it?
03:40:04 <inode0> and it makes it simple for the user, they don't have to choose
03:40:10 <jds2001> ask releng about the concievability of livedvd+netinst
03:40:20 <jds2001> may require some code to livecd-tools
03:40:44 <jds2001> and i will take that action
03:40:55 <ke4qqq> jds2001: can you broach dual arch live media as well?
03:41:02 <jds2001> sure thing
03:41:11 * ke4qqq votes we table til we hear back from jds2001
03:41:21 <Will_> second
03:41:30 <inode0> if we are going to roughly 1GB DVDs dual arch should be doable :)
03:41:47 <VileGent> huh???
03:42:29 <Will_> VileGent: You seem a little lost
03:42:59 <ke4qqq> we could do 2GB squashimages each, and netinst and be ok on a single dvd - maybe
03:43:47 <maxamillion> we'll have to test it and see ... only one way to really know :)
03:43:58 <ke4qqq> so are we done?
03:44:46 <maxamillion> I vote yes :)
03:46:31 <Will_> agrees with maxamillion :)
03:46:43 <ke4qqq> StabbyMc: ?
03:48:28 <StabbyMc_> sorry, apparently my irc client went boom.
03:48:52 <StabbyMc_> so jds2001 are you the owner of taking our media idea to #releng?
03:49:30 <inode0> StabbyMc_ please purge the log of the incident :)
03:49:52 <StabbyMc_> the incident being discussing media production?
03:50:35 <inode0> no, our guests
03:50:49 <StabbyMc_> Ah, yeah, no problem.
03:50:59 <ke4qqq> StabbyMc: yes jds2001 said he'd take it fesco/releng
03:51:32 <StabbyMc_> #action jds2001 taking idea for livedvd + netinst + dual arch to fesco/releng
03:51:44 <StabbyMc_> #topic Fedora Ambassadors NA - Open floor
03:52:33 <StabbyMc_> seriously. grr.
03:52:44 * inode0 suggests closed floor
03:52:56 * ke4qqq agrees
03:52:58 <StabbyMc_> indeed, but since my nick is changed, I can't end the meeting...
03:53:05 <StabbyMc_> #endmeeting
03:53:37 <StabbyMc_> Well, I'll call it then
03:53:38 <maxamillion> StabbyMc_: might need to change your nick to do that
03:53:44 <StabbyMc_> Meeting ended
03:53:58 <StabbyMc_> When my alter ego times out, I'll end the meeting and clean up the logs.
03:54:12 <maxamillion> rgr
03:54:20 <maxamillion> laters all :)
03:54:26 <jds2001> #endmeeting
03:54:26 <Ac-town> StabbyMc_: you might be able to ghost it
03:54:40 <jds2001> i can kill a meeting, i forget how :)
03:54:42 <StabbyMc_> Thanks all, see you at the next meeting.
03:54:47 <Ac-town> like /msg nickserv ghost nick pass
03:54:49 <jds2001> .list MeetBot
03:54:49 <zodbot> jds2001: addchair, deletemeeting, listmeetings, pingall, recent, and savemeetings
03:55:07 <jds2001> .addchair #fedora-meeting jds2001
03:55:07 <zodbot> jds2001: (addchair <channel> <network> <nick>) -- Add a nick as a chair to the meeting.
03:55:12 <Will_> have a great evening all. Night
03:55:16 <jds2001> .addchair #fedora-meeting freenode jds2001
03:55:16 <zodbot> jds2001: Chair added: jds2001 on (#fedora-meeting, freenode).
03:55:22 <jds2001> #endmeeting