16:30:01 <nirik> #startmeeting IRC Support SIG
16:30:01 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Sep 24 16:30:01 2009 UTC.  The chair is nirik. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:30:01 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:30:07 <nirik> #topic Init process
16:30:13 * Sonar_Guy is here
16:30:50 * VileGent 
16:30:54 * mock 
16:31:16 <thomasj> me
16:31:18 <thomasj> ops
16:31:20 * thomasj 
16:31:26 * zcat ☢
16:31:27 <Sonar_Guy> Sonar_Guy
16:31:36 * mock hands thomasj a box of /
16:31:39 <thomasj> zcat, heh, nice one
16:31:46 <thomasj> mock, thanks my friend :D
16:31:52 <mock> thomasj: np
16:32:13 <nirik> ok, I guess we can go ahead and get started... I didn't have much on the agenda today.
16:32:17 <nirik> #topic weekly stats
16:32:27 <nirik> http://theglaserfamily.org/ircstats/fedora-weekly.html as always
16:32:39 <nirik> a pretty quiet week overall.
16:32:56 <thomasj> indeed :)
16:33:00 <nirik> we had/have the nautilus prefs crashing bug, and the X server update killing compiz.
16:33:07 * hiemanshu is here
16:33:11 <nirik> I think both those are fixed now in updates happily.
16:34:15 <nirik> anyone have anything they would like to bring up on the weekly stats?
16:34:54 <VileGent> as you see this week i am around much, i have family issues i have been dealing with
16:36:14 <hiemanshu> I have been trying to help as much as possible
16:36:14 <nirik> VileGent: if there is anything we can do to help, let us know...
16:36:40 <VileGent> hiemanshu,  yep i have noticed you have been helping more
16:36:48 <nirik> #topic fpaste / smolt
16:36:48 <VileGent> thats the whole idea
16:37:19 <nirik> I thought I would bring up again that we should look at using 'fpaste --sysinfo' and smolt more if we can.
16:37:39 <nirik> will gather handy info for us, and reduce the amount of things we need to ask for when starting to help someone.
16:38:13 * thomasj has to try that out once
16:38:26 <nirik> http://fpaste.org/36gq/ is output for my laptop for example.
16:38:56 <mock> nirik: should there be a note in the topic about yum install fpaste until f12?
16:39:09 <nirik> also using fpaste more instead of asking people to paste things could be usefull
16:39:21 <nirik> mock: well, the topic is already pretty full and no one reads it anyhow. ;)
16:39:28 <VileGent> exactly
16:39:37 <mock> nirik: what?  no one checks /topic?
16:39:37 <VileGent> fpaste is in f11 and f10 i think
16:39:39 <nirik> we just need to tell people: 'yum install fpaste; fpaste --sysinfo' and tell us the link it gives you.
16:39:54 <Sonar_Guy> nirik: that rocks!!
16:40:16 <thomasj> Nice output
16:40:21 <VileGent> http://fpaste.org/xs07/
16:41:00 <nirik> the package list is a bit long, but it could be handy sometimes.
16:41:30 <hiemanshu> http://fpaste.org/N6h5/
16:41:36 <mock> nirik: is it in the wiki yet?
16:41:39 <zcat> a bit long, yes. (won't fit on dpaste.com)
16:41:43 <mock> nirik: the yum install fpaste?
16:42:12 <mock> nirik: in the "how to ask smart irc questions" sections?
16:42:13 <nirik> mock: in the wiki where? the page listed in the topic?
16:42:29 <Sonar_Guy> Sonar_Guy: from a terminal window as root, enter 'yum install fpaste; fpaste --sysinfo' and please tell us the link it gives you.
16:42:33 <nirik> not that I know of. We could add it to the wiki...
16:42:40 <fenris02> is fpaste in the released repo now?  no longer in -testing?
16:42:48 <nirik> fenris02: I think so, let me check.
16:43:00 <mock> i got it from the stables
16:43:06 <nirik> yeah, it's in normal updates now.
16:44:00 <nirik> Sonar_Guy: might make that 'open a terminal window (under foo->bar->whateveritisingnome), and do 'su', enter your root password, then run 'yum install fpaste' say 'y' and then run 'fpaste --sysinfo' and give us the link it gives you.
16:44:04 <nirik> or something like that. ;)
16:44:29 <fenris02> su -c "yum install fpaste; fpaste --sysinfo"
16:44:42 <hiemanshu> yum -y install fpaste would be better
16:44:43 <fenris02> short, sweet and should work for about everyone that can paste
16:44:54 <fenris02> hiemanshu, -y is not really advisable imho
16:45:07 <fenris02> hiemanshu, in fact, i wish that option were not even published
16:45:26 <hiemanshu> fenris02, oddly i use it most of the times
16:45:31 <zcat> hmm. too bad xchat redirects stderr to stdout... otherwise /exec -o would work too without being verbose
16:45:45 <zcat> /exec -o fpaste /etc/fedora-release
16:45:47 <zcat> Uploading (0.1K)...
16:45:47 <zcat> http://fpaste.org/ywpT/
16:46:12 <hiemanshu> Uploading (0.1K)...
16:46:14 <hiemanshu> http://fpaste.org/JexZ/
16:46:35 <nirik> hiemanshu: we have had people doing 'yum -y remove foobar' and trashing their machines... or 'yum -y install something' and complain that it pulled in 200 packages.
16:47:28 <hiemanshu> nirik, ah ok
16:48:04 <nirik> so, it's best to avoid telling people to use it, just to be sure.
16:48:09 <VileGent> hiemanshu,  recommending -y gets you in trouble
16:48:18 <nirik> anyhow, anyone have anything further on fpaste or smolt use?
16:48:30 <hiemanshu> VileGent, i havent done it yet, and wont do it as well
16:50:15 <nirik> #topic Open Floor
16:50:27 <nirik> ok, anyone have anything else for open floor?
16:50:35 <nirik> how have we been doing? what can we do to improve?
16:50:53 <hiemanshu> nirik, the only way we can improve is to make people ask better questions
16:51:01 <hiemanshu> and have atleast one person on
16:51:12 <hiemanshu> every time
16:51:42 <VileGent> hiemanshu,  the only thing we can do in that case is point them to the irc help page
16:51:46 <VileGent> hiemanshu please read http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/IRC/Maximizing_Support_from_IRC
16:52:01 <nirik> yeah, some people you just can't reach. ;)
16:52:17 <nirik> but we should do the best we can, and stay professional.
16:52:33 <PsychoAdmin> perhaps the fedora community portal can have a link to the user's smolt page?
16:52:58 <VileGent> PsychoAdmin,  alot of users do not want that
16:53:07 <PsychoAdmin> True
16:53:10 <VileGent> they do not even allow smolt to report
16:53:13 <PsychoAdmin> perhaps an option to turn it on or off?
16:53:21 <PsychoAdmin> off by default for security
16:53:34 <VileGent> and what do you do for multiple machines
16:53:39 <PsychoAdmin> hmmm
16:53:43 <PsychoAdmin> good point
16:53:54 <nirik> smolt can be handy to help debug hardware issues... but we should ask the user if they are willing to provide that info.
16:53:55 <thomasj> I think we're doing good. And to have anytime one on, doesn't help us with getting new helpers. I shut up often and just watch the channel to see who steps up.
16:54:56 <hiemanshu> thomasj, but well you cant let people suffer who come here expecting for help
16:55:00 <nirik> yeah, although sometimes that leads to no one answering, or someone providing a bad answer. :) but you can step in then
16:55:29 <thomasj> If i'm around i step of course in if bad help is given.
16:56:19 <thomasj> hiemanshu, look, nobody of us is paid to help in #fedora. We do it because we like it to help. So soemtimes people have to be patient ;)
16:56:28 <thomasj> *sometimes
16:56:43 <hiemanshu> thomasj, but being quite and waiting for someone to answer is not very helpful :)
16:56:58 <hiemanshu> I aint paid to attend this meeting either, i am here because i want to :)
16:57:47 <thomasj> hiemanshu, you understand it wrong. I shut up and see who's stepping up. Means others are helping and i watch what they do.
16:57:48 <nirik> hiemanshu: I suspect he means he's busy doing something else and watching the channel every once in a while for problems.
16:58:38 <thomasj> And that case as well, yes
16:58:40 <hiemanshu> thomasj, I mean to say if no one answers em for a while we can :)
16:59:06 <thomasj> hiemanshu, you're one of them being watched ;P
16:59:24 <hiemanshu> thomasj, oh, i dint know that :)
16:59:24 <thomasj> hiemanshu, so yes, help them as much as you like and can ;)
16:59:44 <nirik> ok, anyone have anything further, or shall we call it a meeting?
17:00:15 <hiemanshu> thomasj, doing so, being second on the stats is not really all that bad :D
17:00:23 <VileGent> hiemanshu,  some of us have helping for years, and do have some burn out, so yes we love new people stepping up to help
17:00:26 <thomasj> hiemanshu, it's pretty good :)
17:01:20 <hiemanshu> VileGent, I agree to you
17:01:30 <fenris02> neat.  i was gone all week and made 9th
17:02:06 <VileGent> fenris02,  i really havent been in the channel but a couple of hours here and there
17:02:34 * nirik was really busy this week, but still was in channel a bit.
17:02:54 <PsychoAdmin> we need an irc-ticker
17:03:03 <PsychoAdmin> for #fedora channels
17:03:05 * nirik will close out the meeting in a few when he gets back from getting more coffee unless something comes up. ;)
17:03:10 <PsychoAdmin> it would be a good addition ;)
17:03:25 <VileGent> PsychoAdmin,  explain
17:03:27 <fenris02> PsychoAdmin, a ticker?
17:04:02 <PsychoAdmin> like when you watch the news
17:04:15 <PsychoAdmin> text scrolls in
17:04:20 <PsychoAdmin> that would be good for desktop users
17:04:26 <PsychoAdmin> on KDE, gnome, xfce etc
17:04:38 <PsychoAdmin> as an optional package perhaps
17:04:49 <PsychoAdmin> and also for irc helpers
17:05:10 <PsychoAdmin> so they can work + read irc at the same time
17:05:21 <zcat> PsychoAdmin, i just leave a small sliver of xchat showing on the bottom of my screen. helps to have a large monitor. (but i think a 'ticker' would be a flast flowing sewer :)
17:05:56 <PsychoAdmin> which is why it would be an optional package
17:05:58 <PsychoAdmin> :)
17:06:05 <PsychoAdmin> a quick python-script would probably do the job well
17:06:58 * zcat has nothing more to add... except that the RED MARS pics in australia are nice: http://www.flickr.com/photos/plasticbag/galleries/72157622310168099/
17:07:16 <mock> zcat: agreed
17:07:25 <nirik> PsychoAdmin: you could pipe an irc stream to notify-send. ;)
17:07:32 <nirik> ok, thanks for coming everyone!
17:07:44 <PsychoAdmin> nirik: hah! forgot about that nifty command
17:07:46 <mock> nirik: thanks for the cookies
17:07:50 <nirik> #endmeeting