05:00:06 <juhp> #startmeeting i18n
05:00:06 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Sep  1 05:00:06 2009 UTC.  The chair is juhp. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
05:00:06 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
05:00:31 <dychen> hi juhp
05:00:33 <tagoh3> hi
05:00:35 <pravins> hi juhp
05:00:37 <fujiwarat> hi
05:01:21 <juhp> hi guys
05:01:34 <juhp> welcome to our biweekly i18n meeting
05:02:30 <phuang_> hi
05:03:01 <juhp> #topic https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/I18N/Meetings/2009-09-01
05:04:17 <juhp> oops
05:04:23 <juhp> #topic F12
05:04:48 <juhp> beta freeze is at the end of this month - so about 4 hours of devel left
05:04:57 <juhp> ugh 4 months, lol
05:05:08 <juhp> this getting silly - 4 WEEKS
05:05:48 <juhp> any concerns about f12 schedule?
05:06:39 <dychen> juhp: What's our features in F-12?
05:08:07 <juhp> I guess there are still various work/features we might hope to land this month - various some ibus improvements, yum plugin, xkb maps for indic inscript?
05:08:36 <juhp> any others I am forgetting?
05:09:28 <juhp> dychen: hmm might be good to list then for f13 on the wiki beyond official fedora features
05:09:57 <juhp> if no comments then let's move on
05:10:13 <juhp> #topic rawhide bugs
05:10:25 <juhp> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?product=Fedora&version=rawhide&bug_status=__open__&emailassigned_to2=1&emailcc2=1&emailtype2=exact&email2=fedora-i18n-bugs@redhat.com
05:10:45 <juhp> 76 open rawhide bugs we own or are tracking
05:11:30 <juhp> anyone have any particular issues they want to discuss?
05:12:30 <juhp> bug 518395
05:12:31 <buggbot> Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=518395 medium, low, ---, anaconda-maint-list, NEW, add @input-methods to Package Selection screen
05:12:43 <juhp> looking increasingly unlikely
05:14:27 <dychen> juhp: So we still install every im by default? :-P
05:14:46 <juhp> that is what we are still doing for now
05:15:15 <juhp> I don't really want to make any change until we have a reliable easy way of doing post-install
05:15:36 <juhp> perhaps we should just add a uninstall script to ibus ;-P
05:16:30 <tagoh3> heh
05:17:10 <juhp> I noticed that ubuntu actually does something like that on their live spins: removing unwanted packages at the end
05:17:17 <juhp> of installation
05:17:27 <juhp> but anyway
05:17:52 <juhp> might make sense to uninstall IMEs for other langs at that time but that is another issue
05:18:52 <juhp> tagoh3: do you think it is worth the pain to turn off @input-methods for f12?
05:19:02 <dychen> juhp: But users have to specify want/unwant at some point anyway.
05:19:09 <juhp> indeed
05:19:38 <juhp> dychen: they can still do going down into the package customization menu
05:20:05 <tagoh3> juhp: hmm, dunno. it may depends on how many people uses IM on non-CIJK languages.
05:20:21 <juhp> of course appearing on the top-level would be much easier - though it doesn't solve the I only want one IME problem
05:21:03 <juhp> tagoh3: enough to make their questions common anyway iirc
05:22:16 <dychen> juhp: Not sure it is appropriate to specify the IM on regional setting.
05:22:41 <dychen> Kaio: What does  Window 7/Vista do about this issue?
05:22:48 <phuang_> dychen, it is a solution
05:23:03 <juhp> dychen: yeah perhaps better not to install and auto-install on login?  though it is a bit annoying
05:23:16 <juhp> dychen: region setting?
05:23:44 <dychen> phuang_: Yeah , I think Win XP (and 2000 maybe) do in that way.
05:23:49 <juhp> anyway I am proposing to postpone this to f13...
05:23:50 <phuang_> dychen, I think Window has different localization versions. And each version will install default IME for the location
05:24:04 <juhp> right
05:24:07 <tagoh3> juhp: yeah.. and that requires restarting desktop..
05:24:18 <juhp> hmm
05:24:45 <dychen> phuang_: They do, and for english version, you can also set IM in region setting.
05:24:53 <juhp> tagoh3: can't we starting ibus after that?
05:25:17 <juhp> and imsettings
05:25:44 <tagoh3> juhp: we can if we don't care of xim
05:25:52 <juhp> ah yeah
05:26:03 <juhp> well maybe for first session it is ok
05:26:42 <phuang_> dychen, yeah. But it does't install IMEs in install-time. Or maybe installed some, but does not enable any ime
05:26:45 <tagoh3> juhp: or we can't - guess imsettings won't be installed without IM deps, so far at least.
05:28:01 <dychen> phuang_: Yes they do. You can tick the Asian language support during the installation.
05:28:43 <juhp> tagoh3: perhaps we could install imsettings by default?
05:29:08 <juhp> anyway
05:29:21 <tagoh3> juhp: yep
05:29:30 <dychen> phuang_: http://pcsupport.about.com/od/operatingsystems/ss/installxpnew2_3.htm
05:29:57 <phuang_> dychen, right
05:30:28 <juhp> how is rawhide fontconfig?
05:30:53 <paragan> we got new fontconfig-2.7.2 in rawhide now
05:30:56 <juhp> bug 518161
05:30:57 <buggbot> Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=518161 medium, low, ---, besfahbo, NEW, "contains" expression seems not working on the fontconfig rule
05:31:07 <paragan> will be testing it with new lohit-fonts-2.4.2
05:31:16 * juhp notes it is being pushed to f11 too
05:31:24 <juhp> paragan: cool
05:31:29 <paragan> yes
05:31:40 <juhp> (should be interesting;)
05:32:41 <paragan> we also plan to split lohit-fonts in per font tarball release
05:32:43 <juhp> hmm guess devel might have been enough for now ;)
05:32:51 <juhp> paragan: aha
05:33:05 <paragan> yes devel is enough for now
05:33:19 <juhp> (I meant fontconfig:)
05:33:47 <juhp> anyway hope there is time to test fontconfig in rawhide before f11 gets pushed...
05:34:07 <paragan> yes
05:34:32 <juhp> wonder if that is the only change
05:34:52 <pravins> splitting lohit-fonts will be really good for maintenance as well
05:35:09 <juhp> pravins: ok - sounds good then :)
05:35:37 <paragan> juhp, I see changelog which shows 10 commits since 2.7.1
05:35:46 <juhp> aha
05:36:17 <paragan> 3 of them for Windows
05:36:26 <juhp> hm
05:40:44 <pravins> next topic ^^
05:40:46 <juhp> phuang_: the new ibus icon looks different!
05:41:13 <phuang_> juhp, You saw the new icon?
05:41:19 <juhp> yeah :)
05:41:27 <phuang_> juhp, I have built the new ibus include the new icons
05:41:30 <juhp> different to the old one I mean :)
05:41:35 <juhp> thanks
05:41:43 <juhp> just getting used to it :)
05:41:44 <phuang_> No
05:41:50 <juhp> ?
05:42:15 <phuang_> Just installed a set of icons in different size
05:42:24 <juhp> aha
05:42:50 <phuang_> The last ibus uses 48x48, so the it looks not good
05:42:56 <juhp> ok
05:43:08 <juhp> any other topics to discuss today?
05:43:28 <pravins> harfbuzz indic test suit
05:44:01 <pravins> there are some discussion goind on harfbuzz list for making harfbuzz rendering engine compatible to new OT SPec
05:44:07 <juhp> recent rawhide seems ok to me mostly - though I had to install from a old-ish image to avoid anaconda backtraces
05:44:17 <pravins> same as Uniscribe
05:44:21 <juhp> pravins: I see - interesting
05:44:37 <juhp> does pango look ok?
05:44:37 <pravins> so behdad requested test cases for indic
05:44:42 <juhp> aha
05:44:55 <pravins> he want o/p as >OUTPUT: <1,0,0>,<5,10,30>
05:44:56 <pravins> >>Where the output tuples are glyph id, X and Y.
05:45:23 <juhp> hm
05:45:38 <pravins> anyone knows whats this glyph id and x, y??
05:45:53 <pravins> i was trying to prepare first draft for same
05:46:09 <juhp> maybe better to ask?
05:46:13 <pravins> hmm
05:46:54 <pravins> but new OT specs 1.6 has lots of changes
05:47:06 <pravins> many new feature tags are introduces in it
05:47:17 <pravins> for indic script
05:47:51 <pravins> might we will need to update lohit-fonts as well with this new feature may be
05:48:28 <pravins> http://www.microsoft.com/typography/SpecificationsOverview.mspx
05:48:59 <juhp> tagoh3: will we rename knm_new-fonts?
05:49:30 <juhp> pravins: hmm dunno - guess it might be a lot of work?
05:50:11 <tagoh3> juhp: hmm, sure - I'm not still fully understanding though.
05:50:28 <pravins> yeah, but firstly rendering engine need update w.r.t OT spec
05:50:35 <juhp> ah yeah
05:50:53 <juhp> pravins: not sure if/when that might happen?
05:51:32 <pravins> this work is going on for harfbuzz
05:52:03 <juhp> tagoh3: sounds like underscore breaks fontspackages, so might be easiest or as you mentioned do a workaround in package?
05:52:08 <juhp> aha
05:52:31 <tagoh3> juhp: right
05:52:45 <juhp> hope mailhot can fix droid issue before beta...
05:53:06 <tagoh3> juhp: well, that makes sense if we do get rid of any exceptions from the policy though.
05:53:24 <juhp> tagoh3: aha - so there are already other exceptions?
05:53:59 <tagoh3> there are some - not font specific but in the package naming policy.
05:54:08 <juhp> ok sure
05:54:23 <juhp> tagoh3: is knm_new installed by default for ja now?
05:54:43 <tagoh3> juhp: I don't think so
05:54:46 <juhp> ok
05:55:52 <juhp> paragan: do FTBFS have to be priority/severity high??
05:56:17 <paragan> I guess no
05:56:43 <paragan> cause we are having source but just its upstream verification can not be done as upstream url is down
05:56:58 <juhp> paragan: for fonts-ISO8859-2 ?
05:57:17 <paragan> oh! is it set to high?
05:57:41 <juhp> all (3) of them, yes
05:58:02 <juhp> dychen: any idea about UnihanDb?
05:58:11 <paragan> then reporter considered it as High priority
05:58:26 <juhp> paragan: they are filed by ftbfs :)
05:58:51 <juhp> bug 511680
05:58:52 <buggbot> Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=511680 high, high, ---, pnemade, ASSIGNED, FTBFS fonts-ISO8859-2-1.0-20.fc11
05:59:01 <juhp> bug 511482
05:59:02 <buggbot> Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=511482 high, high, ---, dchen, ASSIGNED, FTBFS UnihanDb-5.1.0-7.fc11.1
05:59:07 <paragan> and that is nirik I guess
05:59:08 <dychen> juhp: That's because it tooks too long to build.
05:59:09 <juhp> please have a look anyway
05:59:17 <juhp> dychen: haha
05:59:19 <juhp> hmm
05:59:32 <dychen> So I was profiling it.
05:59:36 <juhp> ok
05:59:41 <juhp> I see
05:59:53 <juhp> please add a comment anyway
06:00:34 <juhp> anyway let's stop the meeting here if noone has anything else needing attention?
06:01:40 <fujiwarat> phuang_: tagoh3: Do you know any background of ibus-anthy icon?
06:01:53 <juhp> fujiwarat: scim-anthy?
06:02:09 * paragan closed bug 511680
06:02:11 <buggbot> Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=511680 high, high, ---, pnemade, CLOSED RAWHIDE, FTBFS fonts-ISO8859-2-1.0-20.fc11
06:02:11 <phuang_> yeah
06:02:13 * juhp wishes we could change it to something more meaningful
06:02:34 <fujiwarat> It's crown icon.
06:02:38 <phuang_> ifrom scim-anthy
06:02:43 <tagoh3> from scim-anthy
06:02:43 <juhp> fujiwarat: or you mean the upstream story?
06:02:47 <phuang_> I don't know why crown
06:03:07 <fujiwarat> I checked anthy home page but there is no icon.
06:03:15 <juhp> fujiwarat: translating, ashie-san wrote "don't ask... ever" iirc
06:03:23 <juhp> in his blog long ago
06:03:37 <juhp> or maybe on the mailing list?
06:03:44 <fujiwarat> Personally I don't like the icon :)
06:03:51 <juhp> fujiwarat: me neither
06:04:06 <juhp> I encouraged tagoh3 to change it for fedora for scim-anthy ;-P
06:04:08 <dychen> fujiwarat: You can "borrow" gcin's jp icon. :-P
06:04:09 <tagoh3> it should be a user contribution - just a hope to becomes a king of japanese IM IIRC
06:04:15 <fujiwarat> tagoh3: thx
06:04:44 <juhp> fujiwarat: how about stealing an icon from uim say?
06:05:04 <tagoh3> juhp: what's the icon?
06:05:04 <juhp> like あ
06:05:16 <fujiwarat> It's ok if it was suitable from scim-anthy.
06:05:52 <fujiwarat> If it can be changed, I'd like to consider the design.
06:05:55 <tagoh3> juhp: it's not for IM icon but to indicate the input mode. they use the same crown for IME icon though.
06:05:57 <juhp> anyway my "secret" disruptive plan is to try to get rid of the ibus IME icons completely if possible ;o)
06:06:15 <juhp> do they?  hmm
06:06:55 <juhp> maybe I hid it or misremember perhaps
06:07:08 <juhp> haven't played with uim in a while anyway
06:07:22 <juhp> fujiwarat: anyway I support changing the ibus-anthy icon
06:07:22 <tagoh3> need to create new one from scratch if we want to replace
06:07:38 <juhp> tagoh3: why?
06:07:52 <juhp> fujiwarat: any ideas for a replacement?
06:08:12 <tagoh3> juhp: no better icons for _anthy_ I meant :)
06:08:28 <juhp> I think あ icon would be an improvement
06:08:48 <tagoh3> juhp: aha - thought you don't like a crown anyway
06:08:52 <juhp> I don't see a strong need for something anthy specific
06:08:57 <juhp> tagoh3: I don't
06:09:21 <fujiwarat> Yes, right. I just thought alphabet 'A' with red pen ;)
06:09:22 <juhp> it is completely meaningless IMHO
06:09:47 <juhp> fujiwarat: A for anthy?  hmm I dunno
06:09:59 <juhp> (the crown I meant)
06:10:26 <juhp> maybe we just need a different UI anyway
06:10:40 <juhp> at least the new ibus icon made me think so :-/
06:11:09 <tagoh3> juhp: just imagine from "improvement" you are about to work on it which is based on a crown icon, but anyway.
06:11:31 <fujiwarat> Probably we may discuss this later. I just wanted to know the background.
06:12:32 <juhp> tagoh3: better crown? :)
06:12:54 <tagoh3> juhp: heh. you said you don't like a crown :)
06:12:54 <juhp> fujiwarat: I agree if anthy adopted some meaningful icon that would be better
06:13:11 <juhp> tagoh3: I just trying to parse :)
06:13:46 <tagoh3> sure
06:14:46 <juhp> dunno I only suggested using something like uim's ja_hiragana.svg
06:15:17 <juhp> fujiwarat: sure - hope we can ship something better that makes sense
06:15:53 <fujiwarat> OK, I see.
06:16:47 <juhp> thanks for bringing it up :)
06:17:08 <juhp> #endmeeting