20:00:27 <mchua> #startmeeting
20:00:36 * mchua <3 zodbot. Ok, who's here?
20:00:38 * ianweller 
20:01:36 <mchua> rharrison, I see you're around as well ;)
20:02:19 <mchua> themayor: we'll be talking about Fedora Insight today, and I know you had some thoughts on that to share
20:02:32 <mchua> Ok, let's get started.
20:02:35 <mchua> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_meetings#Meeting_details
20:02:43 <mchua> As you can see (or read on the list) we're doing things a little differently today.
20:03:02 <mchua> Instead of spending most of the meeting on tasks and very little on discussion, we're trying an experiment to flip that.
20:03:07 <mchua> So, I just went through all our tasks.
20:03:24 <mchua> We're on track for our pre-Alpha tasks. There's some fuzziness around Fedora Insight plans, but I'll be putting out an overall schedule for that tonight that should help clear things up. The other area of slippage is in selecting the F12 talking points, which we need to do this week.
20:03:57 <themayor> sounds good
20:04:13 <mchua> There will be calls for volunteers and such sent to the mailing list, but in general, "we're doing great, no panic needed, feel free to imagine more cool/interesting projects that you'd like to do."
20:04:21 <mchua> (though the last one is always true.)
20:04:59 <mchua> (Secret goal: Try to see if we can have a <40min meeting. ;)
20:05:26 <mchua> so, discussion topics:
20:05:29 <mchua> *  Feedback on our new roadmap/ticket "what are we doing?" system (Mel Chua)
20:05:32 <mchua> * Fedora Insight as a ticket tracker: a helpful concept? (Jack Aboutboul)
20:05:35 <mchua> * New Marketing participants: how can we engage them? (Mel Chua)
20:05:37 <mchua> * If you have a question you'd like to bring up, a topic you'd like to discuss, or something you'd like to do, please add it to this list.
20:05:58 <mchua> The first one's pretty quick. most of you have probably noticed that we have a frozen schedule now
20:06:13 <mchua> and a task queue (like design and infrastructure do, in trac) thanks to mizmo's awesome idea.
20:06:17 <mchua> https://fedorahosted.org/marketing-team/report/3
20:06:19 <mchua> is trac.
20:06:20 <mizmo> woo
20:06:37 <mchua> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_F12_schedule has schedule. It'll be prettier when poelcat is through with it. ;)
20:07:03 <mchua> And I wanted to leave the floor open for a bit in case anyone had any thoughts/concerns/comments/cheers about either.
20:07:26 * ianweller cheers lightly
20:07:33 <mchua> It seems like folks here are already familiar with Trac as a ticketing system, but it's a workflow that we'll need to document and teach newcomers who may be less familiar at some point.
20:07:39 <mchua> But I figure that's a bridge we can cross when we get to it.
20:07:49 * mchua opens the floor to comments, like ianweller's cheering
20:08:28 <mchua> ...ok then!
20:08:43 <mchua> Next topic: Fedora Insight features. themayor ?
20:08:48 <themayor> yeah
20:08:58 <themayor> okay so i wanted to talk about the workflow of stuff
20:09:16 <themayor> since we are redoing things, it pays to try and maybe make some changes
20:09:24 <themayor> which will ultimately benefit everyone
20:10:15 * mchua nods
20:10:26 <themayor> first of all, who has the technical lead for the FI zikula?
20:10:39 <themayor> i thought it was jonrob and/or ian, was it not?
20:11:07 * ianweller could volunteer for that.
20:11:24 <mchua> ianweller and stickster have been Marketing liasons to the logistics list (JonRob is on vacation right now) but no "I will get the infrastructure of this instance up" person has been assigned.
20:11:46 <mchua> I'm going to be stepping up as FI project lead, which means it's now my job to find a tech lead. ;)
20:12:40 <ianweller> mokay.
20:12:46 <mchua> themayor: were there specific things you wanted to see in the FI workflow-to-be?
20:12:54 <mchua> ianweller: (correct me if I'm wrong, btw...)
20:13:13 <ianweller> you're not (yet ;) )
20:13:21 * ianweller ducks
20:13:29 <themayor> okay
20:13:32 * rharrison apologizes for being distracted by a last min phone call
20:13:33 <themayor> so i said like this
20:13:58 <themayor> we have a few things we want FI to do
20:14:14 <themayor> well for any marketing content there are a few things in that workflow
20:14:19 <themayor> we have a piece of content
20:14:32 <themayor> we want it reviewed, translated, distributed
20:14:35 <themayor> so i figured
20:14:47 <themayor> maybe we can build in something to zikula to track that
20:15:00 <ianweller> "translated" means we need to have dedicated translation teams who can get stuff out fast...
20:15:17 <ianweller> so some of the larger translation groups for the larger languages, mainly
20:15:34 <ianweller> we'll have stuff to tie into transifex for zikula already i think
20:15:45 <moixs> maybe not a feature we absolutely need/can do for the F12 timeframe?
20:16:04 <ianweller> are we wanting to get FI done by F12 release?
20:16:05 <themayor> yeah i was going to suggest transifex
20:16:15 <ianweller> or are we focusing post-F12
20:16:47 <moixs> I was hoping pre-F12 for the english version at least...F11 was such a mess.
20:16:48 <mchua> We're discussing F12 right now, but if we want things we can't get done by F12 we can always look at it for future cycles.
20:17:01 <themayor> yeah
20:17:07 <themayor> im not talking in time frame
20:17:11 <themayor> im talking bigger picture
20:17:15 <mchua> pre-F12 launch for English, for sure. I'm aiming for FI going rock-solid live for NDN by the Beta release.
20:18:09 <mchua> (And this will be in the FI roadmap, which will be on the Marketing mailing list tonight.)
20:18:17 <ianweller> mizmo: is that enough time to do the html/css for FI?
20:18:27 <ianweller> ah yeah we can discuss on the list
20:18:31 <mizmo> hmm
20:18:39 <mchua> themayor: so, bigger-picture consideration #1 is translation tracking, possibly with transifex?
20:18:44 <rharrison> So should we be concentrating on the workflow for translations as that should be universal even though it'll take some time to line up the actual translators?
20:18:47 <mizmo> well one project thats way high-priority right now is the get-fedora redesign
20:18:59 * lcafiero slips into the back of the room and sits down
20:19:04 <mchua> hey, lcafiero!
20:19:09 <lcafiero> shhhh!
20:19:12 <lcafiero> hey, mchua
20:19:20 <mizmo> so, im not sure if its enough time given that workload as well
20:19:25 <mchua> lcafiero: I should catch up with you at some point - sorry we missed each other last week. I'll... take that to email.
20:19:25 <ianweller> mizmo: and keep in mind we're not requiring you and you alone to work on it
20:19:51 <lcafiero> +1 mchua
20:20:43 <themayor> anyway
20:20:51 <mchua> ianweller+1 - mizmo, tell you what, let me get the FI roadmap out tonight, then we can pop onto the design channel/list/something and see what'll work for Design giving that roadmap.
20:20:55 * mchua listens to themayor
20:20:57 <themayor> for now, stickster and i have spoken previously to people who work on red hat global PR
20:21:03 <themayor> to help with distribution as well
20:21:11 <themayor> so i dont know if thats a model we want to incorporate
20:21:14 <mchua> #action mchua publish Fedora Insight project roadmap for F12 cycle
20:21:14 <mizmo> kk
20:21:26 <mizmo> ianweller: yeh im not good at scaling unfortunately
20:21:35 <ianweller> mizmo: we need to be able to clone you
20:21:39 <ianweller> high availability
20:22:11 <mchua> #action mchua bring F12 roadmap to Design (mizmo, ianweller) to discuss FI design schedule
20:22:25 <mchua> themayor: Yep, that's in the roadmap - actually, coming up quite rapidly.
20:22:48 <mchua> Meet with RH Brand to discuss additional/supplemental RH-provided marketing materials that may be coming out (video, press blog, etc)2009-08-192009-08-26
20:22:57 * mchua winces at cut-and-paste formatting. But there it is.
20:23:14 <themayor> awesome
20:24:48 <mchua> #info FI workflow consideration: translation tracking with transifex
20:24:57 * mchua doesn't always take notes in chronological order. ;)
20:25:07 <themayor> i just think it would make things overall awesome, neater and more flowing if we at some point were able to build all this into FI with maybe some type of task tracking so we can track metrics too
20:25:26 <themayor> like % translated, # translated and distributed
20:25:40 <themayor> you get the picture
20:25:49 <themayor> that would be the ultimate workflow management
20:25:53 <moixs> For the review process, can't we just do it like in wordpress? With groups.
20:25:55 <mchua> themayor: those would be great metrics. any particular designs or tools you had in mind for that? (like transifex for translation?)
20:26:28 * ianweller could always write stuff to tie into the fedora community stats application i'm working on
20:26:37 <mchua> #info FI feature request: stats for % and # items translated and distributed
20:27:01 <mchua> ianweller: That'd rock. Want to look into ways to do that in zikula this week?
20:27:16 <mchua> ianweller: since you were raising you hand to be tech lead for FI anyway ;)
20:27:24 <themayor> mchua: idk, depends on what we can tie into zikula
20:27:36 <themayor> im sure there are content management task tracking modules for other cms
20:27:38 <ianweller> if i could throw that specific task at somebody else taht'd be great, i'm not awesome at looking for solutions, just implementing them :)
20:28:04 <themayor> because usually any information that a larger place publishes has a workflow around it, i.e. spell check, editorial review, etc
20:29:02 <ianweller> and we can always talk with upstream and ask "hey do you have something for this"
20:29:23 <ianweller> if it were more clear in my head what exactly we were looking for i'd be able to ask upstream ;)
20:29:50 <mchua> ianweller: noted - I'll try to make the feature as clear as possible in tonight's roadmap (which will include a spec) and we can go from there.
20:30:02 <mchua> But I'll put down..
20:30:09 <themayor> ianweller: you could ask if there were any modules to assign and track workflow surrounding content that is created
20:30:50 <mchua> #task ianweller to gather options from upstream-zikula for impementing desired FI features from spec (blocks on mchua getting spec out)
20:30:54 <ianweller> (we're at the 30 minute mark)
20:30:59 * mchua nods
20:31:23 <themayor> like Mr. A creates an article, it goes into que. In que, B is responsible for reviewing it and C for translating it, then when thats done, it gets pushed to the site and D can go ahead and start doing his NDN role
20:31:49 <mizmo> how many translations required for publishing?
20:31:50 <mchua> themayor: Do you think this might be easier to do on the wiki or by email? It sounds like you've got a vision for some features you'd like to see FI have, and we should capture that somewhere on [[Fedora Insight]].
20:31:58 <mizmo> is it unrealistic to expect full translations on a rolling basis for all langs?
20:32:13 <ianweller> i'd say publish to the respective FI language site when it's translated.
20:32:21 <themayor> we dont need full translation
20:32:42 <themayor> we might not require a trans to publish something
20:32:50 <themayor> but if we have that capability built in
20:32:51 <ianweller> i don't think we should.
20:32:53 <themayor> its  win for us
20:32:56 <moixs> +1
20:33:13 <mchua> mizmo: Yeah, my first reaction is to say "yes, that's unrealistic." My second reaction is "let's put that down as an ideal-but-we-probably-won't-get-it" feature on the spec, and figure out how close we can come and how much work it'll take.
20:33:23 <themayor> so that the process of doing that isnt separate if we now have something published which we want translated and distribvuted
20:34:04 <mchua> #info FI spec ideal: full translations of all items on all FI language sites. (Need to see how close we realistically can get to this.)
20:34:07 <ianweller> what i think would be sane is "finalizing" an article/whatever so that it can be translated, and then setting a publish date
20:34:09 <mizmo> maybe have a concept of when the article would be stale so someone doesn't go translating some article about fedora 9 in the fedora 11 timeframe
20:34:10 <moixs> mchua: an intermediate goal could be to translate to the same languages the NDN is targeted at, we already chose a couple of "mos used" languages based on some stats
20:34:36 <mchua> Ok, this is all really good discussion
20:34:56 <mchua> It sounds like *lots* of people have feature/spec/wishlist-for-FI ideas
20:35:09 <moixs> But I'm in favor of Jack's proposition...let's just have this possibility, then we'll see
20:35:23 * mchua also likes Jack's proposition
20:36:03 <mchua> themayor: can you put your thoughts on the [[Fedora Insight]] page, in the https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Insight#Platform_specs.2Frequirements section?
20:36:20 <themayor> yes sure
20:36:45 <mchua> themayor: write out a list of all the features you'd like to see considered, holler to the list, and we'll discuss
20:36:59 <mchua> themayor: alternatively, you could file enhancement tickets against the FI component in our trac. ;) your call.
20:37:22 <mchua> themayor: thanks! if you finish that before I do the roadmap (late tonight, probably around 9-10pm EST) I'll make sure to roll those in
20:38:04 <mchua> #action themayor to publish a list of FI feature requests to either wiki or trac
20:38:11 <mchua> OK, so FI discussion will resumethen
20:38:16 <mchua> er, resume <spacebar> then
20:38:45 <mchua> Anything else on FI beyond "specs we'll be dumping to Trac/wiki in the next 48 hours"?
20:39:01 <mchua> ianweller, you and I will catch up about the infra/tech-lead part of FI after the roadmap's up tonight
20:39:11 <ianweller> noted
20:39:36 <mchua> ianweller: it'll be your job to push back and say "no, Mel, the flying unicorn feature would take 4,000 man-hours and we can't have it ready for F12" and that kind of thing ;)
20:40:07 <moixs> I added a possible content category to the page this week, "interviews with companies/people which use Fedora (aka. success stories)". Does it sound like it belongs on there or not? It was something we had on the old wiki.
20:40:17 <mchua> if I start wanting to do things that zikula can't possibly do, and all.
20:40:19 <mchua> moixs: for FI?
20:40:23 <moixs> yes
20:40:36 * ianweller creates a badge for himself emblazoned with the words "SANITY OFFICER"
20:40:51 <mchua> moixs: sounds great to me, now we just need someone to write those stories ;)
20:40:57 <mchua> ianweller: That, sir, is *exactly* right. :D
20:41:04 <moixs> That's another question, it's a draft full of ideas :p
20:41:33 <mchua> moixs: Ok - if you can make sure that suggestion is on or linked from [[Fedora Insight]], it'll get rolled into the roadmap tonight.
20:42:05 <mchua> Any other FI stuff, aside from "can we do X with FI?" things that should go to the wiki?
20:42:27 <mchua> Ok, we'll take this to the list if anything else does.
20:42:42 <mchua> Last thing I wanted to bring up was #
20:42:42 <mchua> # New Marketing participants: how can we engage them? (Mel Chua)
20:43:04 <mchua> ...but since we don't have any new people in here, that discussion is probably best left for next week with a "let's try to get new people into the meeting" push.
20:43:22 <mchua> I'll take care of that, since I'm writing individual welcome emails for folks who've joined in the past month anyhow.
20:43:39 <mchua> #action mchua writing welcome emails for all new Marketing participants, invite to next week's meeting
20:43:48 <mchua> ...so that means my list is done.
20:43:53 <mchua> Anyone else had anything they wanted to bring up?
20:44:00 * mchua opens floor
20:44:16 * ianweller falls through it
20:44:19 <mchua> #action mchua to email lcafiero about Ambassadors <--> Marketing coordination for F12
20:44:23 <mchua> (so I don't forget)
20:44:28 <mchua> Ok, we're wrapping up in 5...
20:44:31 <mchua> ianweller: jetpacks!
20:44:33 <mchua> 4...
20:44:35 * mchua dons jetpack
20:44:36 <mchua> 3...
20:44:38 * mchua dons helmet
20:44:40 <mizmo> ponies!
20:44:40 <mchua> 2...
20:44:42 <mizmo> pandas!
20:44:54 <mchua> 1...
20:45:00 * mchua jets off to join flying crowd of ponies and pandas
20:45:03 <mizmo> <cute animal here>
20:45:04 <mchua> #endmeeting