14:03:05 <Kevin_Kofler> #startmeeting KDE SIG Meeting - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-08-04
14:03:13 <Kevin_Kofler> Who's present?
14:03:17 * jreznik is here
14:03:26 <svahl> present
14:03:38 <rdieter> 1/2 here
14:03:47 <than> 1/2 here
14:04:33 <than> ltink is on vacation
14:04:45 <Kevin_Kofler> #chair jreznik svahl rdieter than
14:04:50 * jreznik is here 3/4
14:05:31 <Kevin_Kofler> #topic Agenda
14:05:43 <Kevin_Kofler> The agenda for today looks a bit incomplete... https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2009-08-04#Agenda
14:06:03 <Kevin_Kofler> I'll add the /etc/kde4 stuff I posted about to the ML. Anything else?
14:07:54 <than> KDE-4.3 update status
14:08:05 <than> for F12F11/F10
14:08:25 * SMParrish here
14:08:52 <Kevin_Kofler> #chair SMParrish
14:09:24 <Kevin_Kofler> OK, let's start with the most interesting.
14:09:28 <Kevin_Kofler> #topic KDE 4.3 update status
14:09:44 * muep__ 
14:10:18 <Kevin_Kofler> So how far are we?
14:10:35 <than> 4.3.0 is already built in rawhide
14:10:42 <than> who will take care of the 4.3 build for F11/F10?
14:11:19 * jreznik can help tomorrow...
14:11:49 <rdieter> I can help too
14:11:55 <than> jreznik, it's great if you could take care of the build for f10
14:12:16 <svahl> what's the status of the extragear packages for kde 4.3. are they built, too?
14:12:19 <than> and Rex probably for F11?
14:12:29 <than> svahl, not yet
14:12:36 <than> i will take care of them
14:13:04 <rdieter> jreznik and I can coordinate, it's easier to just to F-10/F-11 at the same time (approx), to minimize buildroot tagging, etc...
14:13:04 <svahl> thx
14:13:30 <jreznik> I agree with rdieter
14:13:38 <Kevin_Kofler> I agree too.
14:14:09 <Kevin_Kofler> svahl: The problem with extragear stuff is that it always gets tagged later than the core stuff.
14:14:33 <Kevin_Kofler> So when we start importing the new releases, it isn't there yet.
14:14:36 <svahl> Kevin_Kofler, thx. Didn't know that
14:15:12 <rdieter> and those doing the tarballs, often don't notify kde-packagers list
14:15:12 <than> Kevin_Kofler, extragears are now on ktown
14:16:31 <than> i will commit extragears in CVS today
14:16:40 <than> still downloading
14:17:21 <rdieter> yay
14:17:30 <than> move on!
14:18:08 <rdieter> fyi, I'll push the 4.3.0 builds I have to kde-redhat/testing shortly after the meeting
14:18:27 <Kevin_Kofler> rdieter: OK, great!
14:18:29 <than> rdieter, great
14:18:48 <Kevin_Kofler> #topic New wiki pages (mainly their contents)
14:19:22 <Kevin_Kofler> So this one has been put up by MathStuf. Unfortunately, he can't attend the meetings lately due to work, so if we want to discuss with him, we'll have to do it in #fedora-kde in the evening/night.
14:19:36 <Kevin_Kofler> The pages we should look at:
14:19:37 <Kevin_Kofler> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Testing
14:19:40 <Kevin_Kofler> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Packaging/Cleanup
14:19:43 <Kevin_Kofler> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Packaging/Guidelines
14:20:13 <Kevin_Kofler> I don't think we should have a page named Packaging/Guidelines.
14:20:29 <Kevin_Kofler> We shouldn't call something "guidelines" if it hasn't been passed by FPC and FESCo.
14:20:55 <rdieter> Best Practices maybe
14:22:06 <rdieter> for now, in the meantime, could work to put some form of it into the Guidelines proper, similar to existing specialized ones for perl, python, php, etc...
14:22:09 <svahl> Or "Packaging Drafts" to match the naming from the packaging group?
14:22:34 <jreznik> rdieter: +1 for proper guidelines
14:22:35 <rdieter> even better, in the form of a formal draft, would be easier to be reviewed by FPC
14:24:06 <Kevin_Kofler> How does the Testing page look?
14:24:36 <rdieter> a bit sparse, but a good start surely.
14:24:40 <Kevin_Kofler> I think we should add some information on how to best become an official tester.
14:24:50 <muep__> The role of kde-redhat could be explained a bit
14:24:52 <Kevin_Kofler> i.e. the process to get wiki access, QA group membership etc.
14:25:08 <rdieter> fleshed out, and cross-linked, it would be a good resource
14:26:25 <rdieter> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Packaging/Cleanup    seems to be a bit overkill to me, macro'izing everything, what do others' think?
14:27:06 <Kevin_Kofler> Well, I like the added macros.
14:27:29 <SMParrish> It looks like overkill to me as well.
14:27:32 <Kevin_Kofler> It's quite non-obvious why e.g. %{_kde4_datadir}/kde4/services has to be spelled out.
14:29:12 <SMParrish> I like the idea of cleaning up our specs but dont think we need a macro for everything
14:29:21 <rdieter> I think I'm ok with most items marked high urgency in the list, I guess, maybe we can start with those anyway
14:29:54 <Kevin_Kofler> If anything is actually using %{_kde4_configdir}.kcfg, that really needs fixing.
14:30:04 <mcepl> sorry for being so late
14:30:24 <rdieter> %_kde4_validatedesktop is a noble idea too, but is bad as-is, needs fixing
14:30:31 <Kevin_Kofler> That's a broken hack, it turns /usr/share/config into /usr/share/config.kcfg.
14:31:11 <rdieter> a little history here.... the existing macros match exactly those set/used by cmake and kde's buildsystem.
14:31:34 <rdieter> the proposal here extends things beyond that original idea.
14:32:07 <Kevin_Kofler> Hmmm, I think KDE's CMake files define more variables than kde-filesystem currently does.
14:32:23 <rdieter> oh?  well, they matched at one time. :)
14:32:57 <Kevin_Kofler> For example, they define set(PLUGIN_INSTALL_DIR       "lib${LIB_SUFFIX}/kde4"   )
14:32:59 <rdieter> I'd propose that these be reviewed then, and see how things match up with cmake/kde variables
14:33:16 <Kevin_Kofler> We don't define a %_kde4_plugindir yet, it's in MathStuf's list.
14:33:40 <rdieter> exactly, that's def initely a worthy addition then
14:33:41 <Kevin_Kofler> They also have KCFG_INSTALL_DIR, SERVICES_INSTALL_DIR etc.
14:34:01 <rdieter> I'm 100% in favor of additions of that nature.
14:34:39 <Kevin_Kofler> I agree that we shouldn't define stuff like the directory for legacy KDE 3 mimetype definitions.
14:34:49 <Kevin_Kofler> Most KDE 4 apps won't and shouldn't define those.
14:34:58 <rdieter> agreed.
14:35:49 <Kevin_Kofler> I think we also need a better way to handle the kde-filesystem macros API versioning.
14:36:18 <Kevin_Kofler> Adding those macros is an API addition, it doesn't require rebuilding any existing packages, but it makes sense to be able to BR the new API.
14:36:50 <rdieter> prob need major/minor api
14:37:05 <Kevin_Kofler> With the current system, I'd suggest just adding the macros and not bumping the API, and if anyone is worried about not getting a new enough kde-filesystem they should BR kde-filesystem >= 4-29 or something like that.
14:37:14 <rdieter> or not change api at all
14:37:22 <rdieter> yeah
14:40:48 * rdieter nominates mathstuff for the job or reviewing rpm macros vs cmake variables. :)
14:42:01 <Kevin_Kofler> #nick MathStuf
14:42:26 <Kevin_Kofler> #action MathStuf to review the variables defined by KDE4Internal.cmake and compare with his proposed kde-filesystem RPM macros
14:44:19 <Kevin_Kofler> #topic Why does kde-filesystem own /etc/kde4?
14:44:28 <Kevin_Kofler> See also my message to the mailing list: http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/fedora-kde/2009-August/003426.html
14:45:52 <rdieter> it's empty here, and not used.  seems to be old cruft that we can get rid of
14:46:07 <Kevin_Kofler> rdieter: Anne Wilson says GPG is apparently installing stuff to /etc/kde4.
14:46:13 <rdieter> she's wrong. :)
14:46:29 <rdieter> if there's stuff in there, it's because she put it in there herself
14:46:55 <Kevin_Kofler> That kinda proves my point that those directories are confusing local admins. :-)
14:46:56 <than> Kevin_Kofler, i agree with you tto remove it
14:47:05 <than> if it's not used
14:47:19 <rdieter> I can take care of removing it after meeting
14:47:34 <Kevin_Kofler> Can we also put that into the KDE 4.3.0 updates for F10/F11?
14:47:51 <Kevin_Kofler> I think those directories are confusing and kde-filesystem is not a huge package, so updating it for a minor thing is not a big issue.
14:48:43 <Kevin_Kofler> #agreed kde-filesystem should not own/create the unused /etc/kde4 and subdirectories.
14:48:57 <Kevin_Kofler> #action rdieter to remove /etc/kde4 stuff from kde-filesystem.
14:49:36 <than> Kevin_Kofler, we shouldl keep it for F10/F11 and just remove it for F12
14:49:47 <Kevin_Kofler> than: I disagree.
14:49:51 <Kevin_Kofler> There's nothing in those directories.
14:49:55 <Kevin_Kofler> And they confuse people.
14:49:56 <than> Kevin_Kofler, are you sure?
14:49:59 <Kevin_Kofler> Why would we want to keep them?
14:50:13 <Kevin_Kofler> It was a mistake to create them in the first place.
14:50:15 <than> it will break stuff which need kde4 dir
14:50:27 <Kevin_Kofler> The point is, nothing needs it.
14:50:33 <Kevin_Kofler> KDE 4 doesn't even look in it.
14:50:50 <than> if you are 100% sure, it's fine with me
14:51:14 <Kevin_Kofler> It could be called /asdfgh/foobar rather than /etc/kde4 and it'd be just as effective. ;-)
14:52:16 * than is checking...
14:53:57 <rdieter> yeah, for env/ shutdown anyway, /usr/bin/startkde only looks in /etc/kde
14:54:22 <Kevin_Kofler> rdieter: For config files as well (I know because I patched that in in the first place ;-) ).
14:54:37 <Kevin_Kofler> Just query kde4-config --path config if you don't believe me. :-)
14:54:46 <than> Kevin_Kofler, ok :)
14:54:48 <Kevin_Kofler> than: OK, please tell us after the meeting if you found anything actually using /etc/kde4 (but I doubt you will).
14:55:04 <Kevin_Kofler> #topic Open Discussion
14:55:11 <Kevin_Kofler> That was it for the agenda. Anything else?
14:55:51 <nirik> I have a quick item
14:56:04 <Kevin_Kofler> nirik: Go ahead!
14:56:30 <nirik> I'm working on getting nightly composes running for live media on spin1.fedoraproject.org.
14:56:51 <nirik> I was going to do the kde live as well... but wanted to make sure that was good for you guys, and let you know about it.
14:57:17 <Kevin_Kofler> That actually sounds great to me. :-)
14:57:19 <Kevin_Kofler> svahl?
14:57:32 <svahl> fo me too :)
14:57:44 <jreznik> nirik: we talked about snapshot for testing purposes today with svahl, looks great!!!!!
14:57:46 <nirik> cool. If I see problems I should ping you svahl ?
14:58:06 * nirik notes he hasn't seen any in the last few days of test composes. ;)
14:58:07 <svahl> yes, please (or better by mail)
14:58:31 <nirik> will do. ;) Just wanted to make sure you guys knew and everything...
14:59:20 <jreznik> last thing - answer from artwork people - Select default wallpaper theme — Tue 2009-08-11
14:59:57 <rdieter> ugh, ok.  that's still tight.
15:00:43 <Kevin_Kofler> The alpha will just ship with Leonidas (assuming we can get the fixed Leonidas theme in).
15:01:18 <rdieter> unfortunate, but ok.
15:01:21 <Kevin_Kofler> jreznik, rdieter: Can we please make sure the fixed Leonidas and Solar themes get built in Rawhide ASAP and at least Leonidas makes it into the alpha?
15:01:41 <Kevin_Kofler> It's not the first time we ship an alpha/beta release with the old theme.
15:01:45 <rdieter> yeah, we discussed that before meeting in #fedora-kde
15:01:59 <rdieter> jreznik: can you, or you want me to?
15:02:46 <jreznik> rdieter: only package is missing, isn't it?
15:03:34 <rdieter> just need to spin a new/updated leonidas-kde-theme tarball with lateset svn fixes, and update the rpm
15:04:02 <Kevin_Kofler> The alpha freeze is today though.
15:04:07 <Kevin_Kofler> So we need to make sure it makes it in.
15:04:18 <adamw> can you wrap up soon, guys?
15:04:41 <rdieter> yes, we're over time.
15:04:51 <jreznik> -> #fedora-kde
15:05:12 <adamw> thanks
15:05:28 <Kevin_Kofler> #endmeeting