15:00:32 <poelcat> #startmeeting Zikula Meeting
15:00:48 * poelcat sees Sparks and stickster
15:00:51 <poelcat> who else is here?
15:00:56 * stickster 
15:00:59 * ke4qqq 
15:01:48 <poelcat> ianweller: wakeywakey
15:02:11 * stickster notes ianweller is at POSSE with mchua_afk and may be severely distracted or afk
15:02:25 <poelcat> oh, that's right
15:02:28 * Sparks 
15:02:29 * stickster attended Marketing meeting yesterday and may be able to fill in some gap
15:02:31 <poelcat> should we wait for anyone else?
15:02:58 <stickster> I thought that someone from News might come by, but I may be mistaken
15:03:03 <Sparks> Someone from infra...  maybe ricky ?
15:03:12 * laubersm 
15:03:14 <ke4qqq> pcalarco is still on vacation technically
15:03:19 <stickster> Hi laubersm, nice to see you!
15:03:39 <poelcat> alrighty, lets get started
15:03:52 <stickster> poelcat: Thanks for running the meeting today.
15:03:53 <poelcat> #info 28 Days until "Go Live" (2009-08-18)
15:04:37 * stickster wonders if there is a Zikula upstream person online
15:04:46 <poelcat> #topic Follow up to last meeting action items https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:Zikula_IRC_log_20090715
15:04:59 * Sparks notes itbegins is not online
15:05:06 <ke4qqq> he's still moving iirc
15:05:08 <ianweller> i am severely distracted since i'm teaching packaging reviews :(
15:05:15 <stickster> ianweller: np
15:05:16 <poelcat> checking in on packaging status https://bugzilla.redhat.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=504066&hide_resolved=1
15:05:27 <stickster> ke4qqq: Didn't he delegate someone for the interim?
15:05:42 <ke4qqq> he did delegate drak, let me see if he is around
15:06:15 <ke4qqq> stickster: he isn't, but I'll ask him to attend all future meetings
15:06:22 <stickster> ke4qqq: OK, thanks for doing that
15:06:25 <stickster> poelcat: Sorry for the digression
15:06:28 <poelcat> we were Targeting 2009-07-23 for finishing packaging
15:06:31 <stickster> So, packaging status
15:06:37 <poelcat> stickster: np
15:06:53 <stickster> ke4qqq: How would you indicate our status as a simple percentage?
15:07:04 <stickster> I know we're blocked on a couple licensing problems that need to be untangled upstream
15:07:11 <ke4qqq> virtually 100% in progress - but blocked on licensing largely
15:07:47 <ke4qqq> it may be that we need to quit relying solely on upstream and excise some stuff ourselves and contribute that back up - esp the easy stuff.
15:07:49 <poelcat> are there any remaining things we can do or 100% waiting for itbegins, etc?
15:08:34 <stickster> How much of the basic content modules can we simply install and go with?
15:08:35 <ke4qqq> poelcat: we have a few things that are still under our control to do from a packaging standpoint, but very little - most is in a wait state
15:08:56 * stickster notes that post-installing zikula modules via RPM and then turning them on in the Zikula instance is pretty easy
15:09:19 <ke4qqq> stickster: last Sparks checked there were only 2 modules built, though I think I saw one of yours hit CVS last night
15:09:34 <stickster> Yup, should be available soon
15:09:40 <Sparks> yeah, 2 modules + the core
15:09:44 * stickster is going to push that to stable
15:10:11 <ke4qqq> core was just updated by upstream btw, so a new version will likely happen when I close the bug that's outstanding there as well
15:12:26 <poelcat> are are specific "next actions" we should capture and track?
15:12:43 <stickster> ke4qqq: When does Simon return from moving?
15:13:00 * poelcat thought it was ~2 weeks... around right now
15:13:09 <stickster> as did I
15:14:25 <Sparks> ke4qqq: Are you going to have time today to go over some of my packages to see what we can weed out?
15:15:44 <stickster> We're moving a little slowly here, guys.
15:16:01 <Sparks> poelcat: I guess we need to get everything packaged...  get a test instance up...  get art/websites to make sure everything looks pretty...
15:16:14 <Sparks> poelcat: After that, everything should be gravy.
15:16:14 <stickster> Sparks: That's not specific enough for "next action" I think :-)
15:16:24 <poelcat> Sparks: can we be more specific than "get everything packaged up?"
15:16:31 <Sparks> Well...  fixing the licensing issues
15:16:36 <poelcat> which packages?
15:16:38 <stickster> poelcat: ACTION: stickster <-- push zikula-module-News to stable
15:17:10 <poelcat> #action stickster: push zikula-module-News to stable
15:17:22 * stickster looks up bugzilla to try and give poelcat some specifics
15:17:27 * Sparks too
15:17:51 <stickster> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=FE-ZIKULA
15:17:52 <buggbot> Bug FE: was not found.
15:17:54 <Sparks> .bug 506056
15:17:56 <buggbot> Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=506056 medium, medium, ---, a.badger, ASSIGNED, Review Request: zikula-module-scribite - The scribite! module for Zikula allows integration of various text editors
15:17:57 * poelcat notes it will easier to follow up on something specfic vs. "did everythig get done" :)
15:17:58 <buggbot> Bug 506056: medium, medium, ---, a.badger, ASSIGNED, Review Request: zikula-module-scribite - The scribite! module for Zikula allows integration of various text editors
15:18:12 <Sparks> .bug 505982
15:18:13 <buggbot> Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=505982 medium, medium, ---, ian, ON_QA, Review Request: zikula-module-MultiHook - MultiHook is a simple replacement for the old AutoLinks module for Zikula
15:18:15 <buggbot> Bug 505982: medium, medium, ---, ian, ON_QA, Review Request: zikula-module-MultiHook - MultiHook is a simple replacement for the old AutoLinks module for Zikula
15:18:23 <stickster> poelcat: Absolutely.
15:18:30 <Sparks> I know those two packages have licensing issues.
15:18:49 <Sparks> Oppps... not MultiHook
15:18:56 <stickster> poelcat: phpSmug is blocked on a package naming issue.
15:19:00 <stickster> suggestion:
15:19:14 <stickster> #action stickster: resolve phpSmug naming, build and push.
15:20:03 * Sparks wonders why we need buggbot when we have zodbot
15:20:23 <poelcat> for the licensing issues... who is alerting upsream that these are blockers?
15:20:32 <stickster> Sparks: And what are those modules?
15:20:37 <abadger1999> stickster: If you name it php-phpSmug, no one will object :-)
15:20:46 <stickster> abadger1999: Correct, I'm going to do just that
15:20:53 * stickster taking the road of least resistance
15:20:56 <Sparks> poelcat: Myself and ke4qqq are sending those reports upstream
15:20:56 <abadger1999> <nod>
15:21:36 <Sparks> stickster: scribite! provides the hooks for integrating various text editors
15:21:36 * stickster runs afk for 90 sec, brb
15:21:57 <poelcat> okay, so we have 2 bugs, stickster pushing news module, and phpSmug naming
15:22:07 <poelcat> anything else?
15:22:26 <poelcat> is closing all these bugs still necessary for "go live" ? https://bugzilla.redhat.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=504066&hide_resolved=1
15:23:08 <Sparks> I think so.
15:23:14 <Sparks> ke4qqq: Who is working all those bugs?
15:23:17 <stickster> Sparks: Are you sure?
15:23:29 <stickster> Aren't we able to add modules as we go?
15:23:30 <ke4qqq> yeah we probably also need to rename phpFlickr and one other
15:23:43 <poelcat> and we still think this is all  doable in 28 days?
15:23:47 <stickster> Or are some of these able to be added in after the fact?
15:24:06 <Sparks> stickster: I THOUGHT that all the tickets that were blocking FE-ZIKULA were needed to stand up the CMS
15:24:08 <stickster> abadger1999: To rename phpFlickr and phpLightweightPicasaAPI -- how? Obsoletes?
15:24:14 <ke4qqq> Sparks: Lukas, you, me stickster, and ianweller
15:24:18 <abadger1999> Content and scribite are both reviewed and ready for everything except the licensing issues.
15:24:30 <abadger1999> stickster: Yep.  let me find the page that explains it.
15:24:44 * stickster thinks catching this early was good.
15:24:54 <stickster> Not early enough, but technically those are my fault anyway.
15:25:05 <ke4qqq> and mine
15:25:08 <stickster> Sparks: What is your definition of "stand up"?
15:25:23 <Sparks> To get a functioning CMS solution for docs.fp.o
15:25:26 <stickster> OK
15:25:29 <Sparks> up and running
15:25:49 <Sparks> I know that there will be other uses for Zikula that we can provide for later.
15:25:51 <abadger1999> stickster: This got kicked up to FESCo who said renames require a re-review.
15:25:53 <stickster> Sparks: So what you are saying is that it's not worthwhile to put up a partially completed instance that people can log into.
15:26:05 <abadger1999> stickster: So the proceedure is basically this https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackagingDrafts/RenamingPackages
15:26:09 <stickster> abadger1999: I can get the re-review from David I think -- correct, ke4qqq?
15:26:15 <stickster> Thanks abadger1999
15:26:16 <ke4qqq> yep
15:26:17 <Sparks> Well...  I can log in but I can't do anything...  I hate that
15:26:20 <abadger1999> stickster: with the change of "new review" instead of comments on fedora-devel list.
15:26:33 <abadger1999> yep.
15:26:57 <poelcat> what is the bug # for the package that needs to be renamed?
15:27:13 <stickster> abadger1999: So no list post required, just re-review and follow the rest of the procedures, incl. EOL for old package.
15:27:30 <abadger1999> stickster: right.
15:27:37 <stickster> poelcat: I think the bug for the original pkg is closed, and a new bug may not exist yet
15:28:21 * stickster still waiting for closure on what "next actions" exist other than his own ;-)
15:28:55 <poelcat> who is creating the new bug?
15:29:03 <stickster> poelcat: I think you can add #action stickster: complete renaming of phpFlickr and phpLightweightPicasaAPI
15:29:09 <Sparks> #ACTION Sparks to review license problems in scribite! to determine if he can just remove the "broken" pieces.
15:29:20 <abadger1999> The current package owner should start the rename-review.
15:29:21 <stickster> and #action ke4qqq: review stickster's renamed packages
15:29:41 <ke4qqq> so I'll restart phpFlickr (think I own that)
15:29:45 <stickster> poelcat: The package renaming process requires that I file those bugs
15:29:56 <ke4qqq> and think the other two are sticksters
15:29:59 <poelcat> abadger1999: does the current owner know the urgency of the rename?
15:30:11 <ke4qqq> the current owners are here poelcat
15:30:11 <stickster> ke4qqq: OK, phpSmug and phpLightweightPicasaAPI are mine
15:30:16 <abadger1999> Are the current owners all here?
15:30:18 <stickster> yup
15:30:21 <stickster> <--
15:30:26 <abadger1999> Then I think we're covered.
15:30:30 <stickster> This can be done fairly quickly.
15:30:37 <poelcat> okay
15:30:46 * stickster notes we're halfway through meeting at this point.
15:30:47 <abadger1999> Also note that FPC does allow grandfathering in this case.
15:30:54 <poelcat> anything else on packaging?
15:30:59 <abadger1999> But if nothings been built it's best to rename.
15:31:22 <stickster> abadger1999: phpSmug hasn't been built yet, the others have.
15:31:33 <abadger1999> Up to you then.
15:31:40 <ke4qqq> abadger1999: is grandfathering easier/less work
15:31:43 <ke4qqq> is there a page on that?
15:31:56 <stickster> Let's continue this discussion after the meeting.
15:32:03 <ke4qqq> ok
15:32:08 <poelcat> last week we said that we were "Targeting 2009-07-23 for finishing packaging"
15:32:10 <abadger1999> ke4qqq: grandfathering would just mean, leave the package names as is -- no further work needed.
15:32:17 <poelcat> does this date need to be adjusted?
15:32:35 <stickster> poelcat: I think so, given that we are waiting for Zikula upstream to respond on some issues
15:32:44 <ke4qqq> I see no choice
15:32:50 <stickster> Sparks: ke4qqq: Which of you is responsible for getting answers from Zikula upstream?
15:33:12 * Sparks points at ke4qqq
15:33:18 <ke4qqq> we've both been communicating, both on the lists, both taking the thrown vegetables when we complain about licensing
15:33:21 <ke4qqq> :)
15:33:39 <ke4qqq> but I'll say I am responsible
15:33:48 <Sparks> rotten vegetables at that
15:34:10 * stickster was under the impression they were happy we were giving them a free licensing review
15:34:25 <Sparks> They == "Management" yes
15:34:26 <ke4qqq> they are
15:34:27 <stickster> Can we set a date for packaging completion?
15:34:33 <Sparks> They == "Worker bees" Sometimes
15:34:34 <poelcat> so what should our new target package review date be and will this impact the "go live" date?
15:34:38 <ke4qqq> but they are also groaning at the amount of work
15:34:48 <stickster> ke4qqq: Are we capable of proceeding in the absence of a timely response?
15:34:53 <poelcat> s/package review/packaging
15:34:57 <ke4qqq> stickster: in most cases I think so -
15:35:10 <ke4qqq> I think for instance, scribite, we can just purge that stuff that is offensive
15:35:21 <stickster> And the module will still function?
15:35:26 <ke4qqq> I can't swear to it as I haven't tried it, but think it just eliminates some skins
15:35:36 * Sparks can churn that out today
15:35:39 <ke4qqq> I believe yes
15:35:48 <ke4qqq> and I think that's perhaps what we should do
15:35:56 <ke4qqq> and submit that back upstream
15:36:09 <stickster> Then let's call it here, and do it, or not.
15:36:35 <ke4qqq> lets do it provided it doesn't break the module
15:36:38 <stickster> What do we do in cases where we can't purge out bits with licensing problems?
15:36:56 <ke4qqq> offer help upstream I suppose
15:37:07 <abadger1999> the -Content module has CC licensed javascript... that might actually break the modue.
15:37:34 <ke4qqq> we could also contact some of the authors of stuff - just as the above js and see if they will add a license
15:37:45 <ke4qqq> perhaps the @fp.o email address will garner some love
15:38:17 * stickster makes a note without trying to be snide
15:38:26 <stickster> We *could* do many things. What are we going to do?
15:38:31 <poelcat> What should our new target package review date be and will this impact the "go live" date?
15:38:55 * poelcat notes it is okay to say "we don't know now"
15:38:57 * stickster moves that we change the target package review date back by one week, and the go live date as well
15:39:08 <ke4qqq> I wil contact the upstream authors of the cc-licensed javascript by end of week and see if relicensing works.
15:39:13 <poelcat> and "go live" date is at risk/unclear/not happening/<insert yours>
15:39:40 <ke4qqq> #action ke4qqq will contact upstream authoers of cc-licensed js by eow and see if relicensing can happen.
15:39:47 <stickster> ke4qqq: awesome!
15:40:00 <ke4qqq> +1 for a one week slip
15:40:28 <poelcat> does anyone else present believe a one week slip is the wrong thing to do?
15:40:45 <Sparks> no... I just hate to do it.
15:40:50 <ke4qqq> same here
15:41:10 <poelcat> it is far better to slip now than hope/pray and miss it later
15:41:43 <abadger1999> poelcat: How is the go-live date in relation to the Fedora12 release?
15:42:10 <abadger1999> We still giving plenty of time to have it deployed/load tested in Infra before the release?
15:42:14 <poelcat> abadger1999: we were targeting alpha http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-key-tasks.html
15:43:20 <abadger1999> poelcat: Okay, that should be fine.  infra will have a one week freeze for alpha (barring slips) but alpha freeze is reasonably easy to get change requests through.
15:43:35 <stickster> abadger1999: Including running a whole new application?
15:43:48 <abadger1999> stickster: We did it for transifex.
15:43:56 <stickster> I suppose it's a + that someone from Infra is here, informed, and helping :-)
15:44:09 <poelcat> #topic status of test instance
15:44:27 <abadger1999> We'll need to deploy in staging and maybe we'll end up just using staging temporarily/copying the database to production after alpha
15:45:17 <poelcat> ke4qqq: were you tracking test instance?
15:45:42 <poelcat> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:Zikula_IRC_log_20090715#Test_Instance
15:46:01 <ke4qqq> I am one of the people slotted to work on it
15:46:13 <ke4qqq> though honestly I haven't recently
15:46:57 <poelcat> ke4qqq: do we have any milestones we need to hit to know we are still on schedule w/ the test instance?
15:47:21 <ke4qqq> so one of the blockers that I discussed in email at least that I perceive is that we need to template the conf files for puppet and create package lists, etc.
15:47:32 <ke4qqq> that probably needs a date -
15:48:01 <ke4qqq> at least the initial draft before it moves to staging, but abadger1999 can probably speak more intelligently to that
15:48:03 * poelcat wonders if a high level schedule has ever been drawn up for this project?
15:48:15 <ke4qqq> poelcat: we thought that was what you were doing :)
15:48:24 <poelcat> aahh :)
15:48:33 <Sparks> maybe a project plan
15:48:35 * stickster notes poelcat was delisted from the Mindreaders Club recently :-)
15:48:36 <abadger1999> ke4qqq: Well... moving to staging is also when we create the puppet configs.
15:48:36 * poelcat understood it to be "very simple" :)
15:48:46 <poelcat> package stuff + go live ;-)
15:49:05 <abadger1999> ke4qqq: So you can do trial and error there.
15:49:13 <ke4qqq> stickster: yeah, I find that we can't get the ESP kernel module accepted upstream.
15:49:35 <stickster> I've done something that I hope will help (needs a couple tweaks and is missing a line or two):
15:49:36 <stickster> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status
15:49:59 * stickster pushes that aside so as not to derail the discussion of a plan
15:50:10 <poelcat> ke4qqq: what dates should we set around the test instance?
15:50:10 <stickster> Let's come back to that in #fedora-docs after the meeting
15:50:20 <stickster> s/that/that wiki page/
15:50:49 <ke4qqq> poelcat: I honestly don't know
15:50:51 <ke4qqq> abadger1999: ?
15:51:48 <stickster> Will having a schedule help us complete this work more effectively?
15:52:14 <abadger1999> Infrastructure freezes for one week before the test releases so we can be sure we can deliver those.
15:52:16 <ke4qqq> it provides incentives to meet objectives
15:52:18 <Sparks> stickster: I think it will... everyone will know what needs to be done
15:52:21 <abadger1999> Two weeks before the final release.
15:52:40 <abadger1999> We can put through requests to break change freeze if it's worthwhile.
15:52:42 <abadger1999> mmcgrath: ping
15:52:44 <stickster> ke4qqq: well the *schedule* doesn't, but I think I get what you're saying, embarrassment at not meeting it does! :-)
15:52:54 <mmcgrath> abadger1999: pong
15:53:00 <ke4qqq> stickster: yep
15:53:05 <abadger1999> Mike might also want to do some load testing to make sure adding zikula doesn't destabilise/slow down other things.
15:53:18 <mmcgrath> load testing good.
15:53:26 <abadger1999> mmcgrath: Deploying zikula -- what kind of testing do we want to do/allocate time for?
15:54:02 <mmcgrath> I'd say a good week to get it integrated on staging and tested.
15:54:04 <smooge> Zikula?
15:54:15 <mmcgrath> smooge: CMS
15:54:21 <smooge> CMS got it
15:54:32 <mmcgrath> how long till it's ready?
15:54:39 <poelcat> #action poelcat to draft skeleton schedule + set followup meeting on FedoraTalk/Gobby to nail it down
15:55:31 * stickster notes he has a hard stop in 5 min
15:56:27 * poelcat notes we've basically covered the agenda... any other topics for remaining 5 min?
15:56:28 <ke4qqq> mmcgrath: at least another week
15:56:32 <ke4qqq> :)
15:56:38 <mmcgrath> <nod>
15:56:45 <abadger1999> mmcgrath: poelcat is putting together a schedule.  the optimistic date is around the alpha.
15:57:22 <mmcgrath> <nod>
15:58:08 <stickster> abadger1999: Meaning, you think we should move the go-live date?
15:58:09 * poelcat might not get to schedule until first part of next week
15:58:16 <poelcat> will try for earlier
15:58:39 <abadger1999> stickster: Let's thik about it next week.
15:59:15 <stickster> abadger1999: OK
16:00:02 * Sparks notes we are almost out of time
16:00:43 <poelcat> thanks everyone
16:00:51 <poelcat> #endmeeting