17:18:22 <nirik> #startmeeting
17:18:23 <sdziallas> nirik: not really, just kidding...
17:18:31 <nirik> #meetingtopic Spins Sig
17:18:37 <nirik> #topic Meeting Time
17:18:49 <brunowolff> We should discuss meeting times and leadership first.
17:18:56 <nirik> So, when are people available to meet?
17:19:04 * nirik is around most all the time.
17:19:28 * biertie is around most of the time, except these summer months
17:19:34 * huff huff too
17:19:40 * sdziallas for the next three weeks basically any time which isn't 3 AM in the morning in CEST
17:19:44 <brunowolff> I think we should give the wrangler's availability extra consideration.
17:20:16 <sdziallas> +1
17:20:18 <maxamillion> I'm available but not consistently ... $dayjob has a tendancy to schedule meetings the morning of and $dayjob $boss doesn't like the response "Can't be there because I have a meeting pertaining to my hobby"
17:20:46 <nirik> brunowolff: +1
17:20:48 <onekopaka> maxamillion: I'd imagine $boss wouldn't.
17:20:48 <biertie> hmm yes, maybe an hour later?
17:21:42 <brunowolff> Kanarip had responded saying ~21:30 UTC? would be better for him.
17:21:57 <brunowolff> But he didn't commit to that time.
17:22:04 <kanarip> boo
17:22:06 <kanarip> i'm here
17:22:11 <biertie> thats 23:30 CET summer time?
17:22:14 <nirik> hey. Welcome kanarip! :)
17:22:16 * sdziallas waves to kanarip...
17:22:33 <maxamillion> maybe 21:00 UTC would be better?
17:22:41 <kanarip> i'm glad you mentioned my nick *while* i was sitting behind my laptop
17:22:52 <kanarip> 21:00 UTC would work for me
17:23:08 <maxamillion> +1
17:23:09 <maxamillion> :)
17:23:22 * nirik is fine with that.
17:23:26 <biertie> well, I'm not sure for the next couple of weeks, but from mid august, it would be ok for me too :)
17:23:27 <brunowolff> I would normally be able to make that.
17:23:37 <maxamillion> it ends up being 1600 local time for me and *most* days I can clear that time slot
17:23:47 <nirik> I'd also suggest weekly meetings personally.
17:23:55 <maxamillion> nirik: what day of the week?
17:23:55 * sdziallas usually too, probably need to drop out at the end early...
17:24:07 <brunowolff> At least for the run up to F13 as we have had stuff stacking up.
17:24:20 <kanarip> nirik, let's see what the schedule for other meetings looks like and maybe we want to move to #fedora-spins if there's a conflict?
17:24:51 <nirik> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting_channel
17:25:04 <brunowolff> 2100 looks pretty clear.
17:25:07 <nirik> mondays at 21:00 are fine.
17:25:10 <kanarip> 21:00 UTC slot is open, right?
17:25:19 <nirik> only friday is taken by EPEL.
17:25:29 <kanarip> are we going weekly then?
17:25:40 <brunowolff> +1 for weekly
17:25:54 <maxamillion> +1 for weekly
17:26:00 <maxamillion> +1 for Monday
17:26:02 <nirik> I find that biweekly causes confusion on when you are meeting, and it's not a big deal to meet weekly and if you don't have much just finish early.
17:26:06 <sdziallas> +1 & +1
17:26:38 <biertie> +1 for monday, weekly
17:26:49 * nirik is good with those.
17:26:51 <kanarip> +1, weekly
17:27:42 <nirik> ok, sounds like we are all good with that.
17:27:46 <nirik> should we meet later today then?
17:27:58 <brunowolff> +1 Monday (Thursday is the only day with a regular conflict at 2100)
17:28:04 <kanarip> i'm fine with meeting now for a change
17:28:35 <kanarip> usually it's $dayjob that gets in the way
17:28:37 <nirik> #chair kanarip
17:28:54 <kanarip> nirik, you be chair i don't know how zodbot works
17:28:56 <nirik> cool. So, meet now, but after this move to 21:00 UTC on monday.
17:29:10 <biertie> ok :)
17:29:11 <kanarip> +1
17:29:14 <nirik> kanarip: it's pretty easy. http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot
17:29:25 * sdziallas will have to run for ten minutes, but will hurry to join then again
17:29:28 <nirik> #agreed move meeting times to weekly at 21:00 UTC on monday.
17:29:36 * kanarip changed the Spin_SIG page
17:29:40 <nirik> ok, whats the next topic? do we have an agenda?
17:30:18 <maxamillion> can we touch on the Xfce Spin real quick, I have to leave soon
17:30:29 <kanarip> i think we have an agenda of last meeting
17:30:37 <kanarip> some of the things i was required to agree with?
17:30:46 <nirik> brunowolff: was that on a wiki page?
17:30:48 <brunowolff> bruno changed the fedora meeting page
17:30:55 <kanarip> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Spins_SIG_Meeting_2009-07-06 < some of these
17:31:09 * nirik looks
17:31:25 <brunowolff> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Spins_SIG_Meeting_2009-07-06
17:31:32 <nirik> can we talk Xfce for a sec since maxamillion has to head out?
17:31:38 <nirik> #topic Xfce Spin
17:32:02 <nirik> I'm low on time (as are many of us) and maxamillion would like to head up the Xfce spin for this cycle...
17:32:17 <kanarip> sure, maxamillion, take it away
17:32:33 <nirik> kanarip: can you add him to the git group to make changes there?
17:32:35 <maxamillion> I've started doing weekly builds against rawhide for testing purposes
17:32:44 <maxamillion> nirik: already in the git group
17:32:53 <nirik> oh, cool. ;)
17:33:14 <kanarip> nirik, done
17:33:18 <maxamillion> nirik: kanarip was nice enough to add me last week, I made an edit already as bluez-gnome is being phased out in favor of gnome-bluetooth
17:33:21 <maxamillion> kanarip: :P
17:33:29 <nirik> maxamillion: cool.
17:33:37 <maxamillion> and because bluez-gnome was breaking the build
17:33:47 <nirik> ok, so I guess that was it, just a heads up here. ;)
17:34:09 <maxamillion> anyhoo, I've also been in contact with Adam W. and the rest of the testing/QA team about getting some help for testing
17:34:29 <maxamillion> just trying to stay on top of any bugs that might plague the spin :)
17:34:38 <maxamillion> ok, I have to run ... very sorry all!
17:34:40 <kanarip> awesome
17:34:43 <kanarip> maxamillion, thanks
17:34:45 <nirik> thanks maxamillion and welcome.
17:34:57 <maxamillion> thank you, and I'm very happy to be aboard
17:35:03 <maxamillion> laters!
17:35:13 <nirik> #topic Generic Spin Process
17:35:24 <brunowolff> (I further updated the Spins page to note meetings are weekly in addition to the previously changed time.)
17:35:39 <nirik> ok, so was this to update the wiki on the process? or ?
17:36:04 <kanarip> well, we wanted to review how things have gone last dev. cycle, didn't we?
17:36:31 <nirik> yeah, perhaps so.
17:36:39 <kanarip> i think overall a lot, and i mean *a lot* of progress has been made in making the spins have an actual process
17:36:59 <kanarip> but then there's certain things to improve
17:37:04 <kanarip> that's what we're after
17:37:46 <brunowolff> We need process for continuing spins and discontinued spins.
17:37:47 <kanarip> recurring spins is one thing we have to address in https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Spins_Process
17:38:07 * nirik nods
17:38:21 <kanarip> for discontinued spins as well, +1
17:38:27 <kanarip> "how do we detect someone is slacking off"
17:38:51 * sdziallas is back, reads log
17:38:59 <nirik> so, where do we go here? Someone needs to write up a draft recurring spins page for us to approve?
17:38:59 <biertie> well, we monitor the time between 2 changes ? :)
17:39:42 <brunowolff> I still need to figure out the test case documentation process. Getting test cases for the F13 version of the Games Spin is the
17:39:47 <brunowolff> main task I have.
17:39:49 <huff> is there a doc that describes what need to happen to update form one release to next, ie F-11 to F-12
17:39:54 <kanarip> nirik, the recurring spins thing is pretty obvious in my mind, so if the rest agrees i'll take that
17:40:12 <kanarip> huff, we're just talking about that ;-)
17:40:19 <nirik> kanarip: that would be great.
17:40:26 <huff> yea
17:40:47 <brunowolff> kanarip, I updated the Games spin page according to what i think I was supposed to do for that part of the process.
17:40:52 <kanarip> nirik, let the notes reflect it'll be sent to the mailing list for review and taken for vote next week?
17:40:58 <huff> my concern is with repos and such, ie when do you move form dev to release
17:41:00 <nirik> kanarip: sounds good.
17:41:17 <nirik> #action kanarip will make a draft re-occuring spin page for review and voting next week.
17:41:28 <nirik> #topic Renaming the incomplete-spins category?
17:41:36 <brunowolff> That may make a good sample case to look at for good and bad ways to update spin pages for continuing spins.
17:41:36 <nirik> did we want to do this? I am ok with it.
17:41:42 <kanarip> huff, it's my responsibility to move what is released to F-N gets the correct repos
17:42:06 <huff> kanarip: ok
17:42:18 <brunowolff> We had decided last time that a name change was fine, but wanted to have kanarip make the final choice of the new name.
17:42:19 <kanarip> i agree with making "Incomplete_Spins" something similar to "Spins_in_Development"
17:43:05 <biertie> kanarip: +1 (for spins in devel)
17:43:23 <kanarip> could we take a simple vote on this? "spins in devel" instead of "incomplete spins" ?
17:43:27 <nirik> +1
17:43:30 <brunowolff> +1
17:43:44 <biertie> +1
17:44:00 <sdziallas> +1
17:44:26 <kanarip> #agreed rename category Incomplete_Spins to Spins_in_Development (biertie, kanarip)
17:44:46 <brunowolff> Action?
17:45:17 <nirik> yeah, you can do action as well if you want it to appear as an action item. ;)
17:45:22 <kanarip> yes, biertie and me ;-)
17:45:30 <kanarip> ohw
17:45:40 <nirik> #action kanarip and biertie will rename the category Incomplete_Spins to Spins_in_Development
17:45:50 <kanarip> #action biertie and kanarip to rename category Incomplete_Spins to Spins_in_Development
17:45:55 <nirik> #topic Packaging (fedora-spins vs. custom-spins vs. spin-kickstarts as it is now)
17:45:55 <kanarip> ;-)
17:45:58 <brunowolff> I was asking who was going to do it. I haven't created or deleted whole categories before and didn't want to volunteer.
17:46:24 <nirik> so, what do we want to do here? the thought was to split things up/
17:46:37 <kanarip> ok so we get requests from people to have their kickstart to be put in our git repo
17:47:18 * sdziallas mentions a possible resurrected sugar spin as an example
17:47:27 <kanarip> and then to be shipped as a package, but not participate in the actual release cycle (as in, no .iso to be released officially)
17:47:32 <brunowolff> The way I view "custom", I wouldn't expect any custom spin ks files in git.
17:47:35 <kanarip> my thinking is:
17:47:40 <kanarip> 1) they'll need to go through the process
17:47:46 <nirik> ah. Perhaps that should be in a -extras subpackage?
17:47:51 <kanarip> 2) they'll not be composed/released by fp.o
17:48:22 <kanarip> 3) we split the packages so that the name of the package reflects the kickstart's status
17:48:34 <nirik> is there a reason they don't want a composed image?
17:48:35 <kanarip> nirik, something like an -extras subpackage, yeah
17:48:58 <kanarip> one of the proposals is the Haskell spin
17:49:06 <brunowolff> It may be that Fedora is limiting the iso, not the spin creator.
17:49:37 <nirik> perhaps if they don't want to go through the process we could just have a wiki page on the spins sig with 'contributed kickstarts' or something?
17:49:41 <kanarip> i think the maintainers/proposers say it's a niche and doesn't necessarily require the consumation of resources on fp.o's end
17:50:20 <kanarip> well obviously they do like some form of revision control, and they'd also like their kickstart to be distributed to as many people as possible
17:50:31 <kanarip> it just doesn't have to be an actual spin perse
17:51:20 <kanarip> it makes sense to me how about you?
17:51:39 <kanarip> it == the non-necessity if being an actual release
17:51:44 <nirik> I'd be ok with that proposal... I bet many of them will not want to follow the process tho... they will find it too much trouble.
17:51:45 <brunowolff> Do we need to handle the local variants of Spins specially/
17:52:14 <kanarip> nirik, it'll basically be a sub-dir in the git repo to reflect just that
17:52:31 <kanarip> brunowolff, those would probably go to a subdir as well
17:52:35 <brunowolff> For example there are several locale specific versions of the games spin that I don't test.
17:53:02 <nirik> yeah, it would also need a README... noting that they aren't composed, etc.
17:53:07 <kanarip> brunowolff, and that's ok they fall under the maintenance responsibility of someone else
17:53:28 <kanarip> yups
17:53:41 <nirik> so, this requires all of them in the package to go thru the process right?
17:53:55 <kanarip> and in the package they'd also end up in a sub-dir; something like contrib/, localized/, foo/, bar/, baz/
17:54:23 <kanarip> nirik, sorry, that doesn't parse very well on this end
17:54:25 <brunowolff> I would expect locale specific variants wouldn't be too hard to get through the spins process.
17:54:41 <nirik> sorry... I meant:
17:55:00 <nirik> all ks files in the spins-kickstarts package must follow the spins process.
17:55:02 <nirik> correct?
17:55:11 <nirik> or the ones in contrib/whatever don't need to?
17:55:17 <kanarip> yes
17:55:19 <brunowolff> I think they all should.
17:55:23 <kanarip> no.
17:55:32 <kanarip> trademark approval applies or they rebrand
17:55:40 <brunowolff> If they don't want to go through the spins process they can just post the ks file somewhere.
17:55:47 <kanarip> technical viability applies or they are not in the git repo for starters
17:55:56 <nirik> right. I just wanted to clarify that... sounds fine to me.
17:56:07 <kanarip> we as the spin sig at the very least have to agree on a given .ks
17:56:27 <kanarip> ok, let's see what we can do there and come back with an actual proposal next week how does that sound?
17:56:45 <kanarip> meanwhile, the result of the proposal can go to rawhide since it eats babies anyway
17:56:54 <kanarip> *for breakfast
17:57:21 <nirik> ok, so you will mod the package to have the readme and contrib dir or whatever ?
17:57:28 <kanarip> yes
17:57:37 <kanarip> agreed? (can i get some +1's?)
17:57:44 <biertie> +1
17:58:05 <huff> +1
17:58:13 <nirik> +1
17:58:25 <brunowolff> +1 to base proposal and +1 to someone writing up details for review next time.
17:58:36 <kanarip> #agreed explore splitting the spin-kickstarts package
17:58:56 <kanarip> #action kanarip to split up the spin-kickstarts package, release to rawhide, revisit next week
17:59:27 <nirik> ok, we are coming to the end of the hour... should we go on? or wrap up for now?
17:59:43 * huff also submitted an new spin for F12 and would like comments: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ovirt_Node_Spin
17:59:43 <kanarip> ok, we need a few more action items before we're done
17:59:51 <huff> It is still not complete, as it has a lot issues, spicificly missing a couple rpms however they are currently under review, and the post needs to be cleaned up, however I wanted to start the discussion
17:59:51 <kanarip> recurring spins process draft is mine
17:59:53 <biertie> well, I have to leave actualy..
18:00:04 <kanarip> but then there's the discontinued spins process
18:00:08 <biertie> I'm sorry, but I'll read the logs, and catch up with you guys next week
18:00:28 <nirik> thanks biertie!
18:00:32 <kanarip> biertie, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ovirt_Node_Spin is in your queue ;-)
18:00:35 <nirik> huff: cool. Looks interesting...
18:01:05 <biertie> since 5minutes ago?
18:01:06 <kanarip> huff, could you link the review bz # from the wiki page?
18:01:15 <biertie> I checked the que like 2hours ago =)
18:01:18 <huff> kanarip: will do
18:01:21 <brunowolff> I think the discontinued spin process needs to clarify how a discontinued spin is identified, how to adjust the web page, and removal from
18:01:22 <biertie> but I will be for temorow :)
18:01:26 <brunowolff> spin-kickstarts
18:01:33 <huff> biertie: i just snuck it in
18:01:45 <nirik> we also have https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/LXDE_Spin ready for sig.
18:01:51 <huff> biertie: feed back is welcome i know it has issues
18:01:53 <kanarip> brunowolff, +1, but someone needs to do the actual draft
18:02:12 <brunowolff> I'll do a draft for review next week.
18:02:35 <brunowolff> It will probably need some adjustment when reviewed next week, but it's a draft.
18:02:40 <kanarip> nirik, i've seen this spin a few times before, i've composed it and ran it, just not last week ;-)
18:02:49 <kanarip> the LXDE spin gets my +1
18:03:13 <kanarip> #action brunowolff to draft a discontinued spins process for next meeting
18:03:17 <kanarip> thanks brunowolff !
18:03:29 <nirik> yeah, I haven't composed it recently, but its been fine when I have... I could say +1 here as well.
18:03:57 <kanarip> re: lxde spin, i'm also very, very sure it'll get the board's approval ;-)
18:04:18 <huff> what is the max character lenght for spin names?
18:04:43 <kanarip> huff, the fs label is 32 chars
18:05:09 <huff> k
18:05:15 <kanarip> huff, the iso filename is... seemingly endless unless you want the spin to be downloaded by FAT or NTFS users
18:05:33 <kanarip> (that's the first filename character size limit you'd hit)
18:05:43 <nirik> ok, so what else do we need to discuss today?
18:06:02 <nirik> #topic LXDE and Ovirt spins status
18:06:05 <huff> kanarip: ok i thought i rembember reading a limit some where but should not be a problem
18:06:25 <nirik> should we vote on LXDE next week? when we have had more chance to review?
18:06:33 <kanarip> nirik, did we take a vote on the LXDE spin yet?
18:06:38 <kanarip> it has my +1
18:06:43 <nirik> +1 here as well. ;)
18:06:51 <sdziallas> here too, +1
18:06:53 <kanarip> well i've looked at it regularly
18:07:19 * sdziallas has given it a try some time ago on the XO :)
18:07:44 <kanarip> brunowolff, you wanna give your opinion on the LXDE spin?
18:07:54 <brunowolff> I haven't looked at it.
18:08:10 <brunowolff> In general I don't have time to evaluate other people's spins.
18:08:11 <kanarip> give it a +0 then
18:08:24 <brunowolff> +0
18:08:32 <kanarip> fair enough, but "no opinion" == "+0"
18:08:35 <kanarip> thanks
18:08:59 <kanarip> nirik, is that a wrap?
18:09:04 <brunowolff> I'll probably do a lot of that for spin proposals unless there is an obvious negative.
18:09:18 <nirik> so, does that pass then?
18:09:29 <kanarip> yes
18:09:31 <kanarip> #agreed the LXDE spin has passed the Spins SIG review
18:09:32 <nirik> #agreed LXDE spin is approved.
18:09:35 <nirik> ha. ;)
18:09:43 <nirik> kanarip: can you ask the board about trademark?
18:09:54 <brunowolff> I'll update the meetings page to include some templates for the next few weeks and start an agenda based on the reviews we should
18:09:58 <brunowolff> be doing next time.
18:10:01 <kanarip> #action biertie to move LXDE Spins page to category Spins_Ready_for_Board
18:10:43 <nirik> #topic Open Floor
18:10:53 <nirik> any further items before we close out for today?
18:10:59 <kanarip> ok, let's also mention that for next meeting, we need to go through the queue of Incomplete_Spins (or what is by then Spins_in_Development
18:11:28 <brunowolff> #action bruno to start an agenda for next meeting
18:11:41 <kanarip> there's daily composes at http://www.kanarip.com/revisor/ with extravaganzely verbose logs (-stdout.log) including dependency resolving
18:11:53 <nirik> yeah, meetings work best when there is a known agenda to go through... ;)
18:11:55 <kanarip> it pulls the spin-kickstart git repo for every compose
18:12:23 <nirik> ok, anything else?
18:12:47 <kanarip> not from my side
18:13:13 <nirik> oh, BTW, we might get some more space soon due to XZ compression on rpms... might be of use to fit more.
18:13:36 <nirik> oh, that won't help. what am I thinking. ;)
18:13:50 <nirik> anyhow... will close out the meeting in 60sec.
18:14:50 <nirik> #endmeeting