16:00:47 <sesivany> #startmeeting FAmSCo 2014-09-30
16:00:47 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Sep 30 16:00:47 2014 UTC.  The chair is sesivany. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
16:00:47 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
16:00:50 <sesivany> #meetingname famsco
16:00:50 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famsco'
16:00:54 <sesivany> #topic Roll Call
16:00:59 <sesivany> .fas eischmann
16:01:01 <zodbot> sesivany: eischmann 'Jiri Eischmann' <eischmann@redhat.com>
16:01:03 <cwickert> .fas cwickert
16:01:06 <zodbot> cwickert: cwickert 'Christoph Wickert' <christoph.wickert@gmail.com>
16:01:35 <sesivany> #info robyduck and tuanta sent regrets, won't attend today's meeting.
16:02:37 <sesivany> yn1v, ping
16:05:18 <sesivany> cwickert: looks like it's just me and you today... two sent regrets, two are not online, one is not responding.
16:07:24 <cwickert> sesivany: too bad
16:07:53 <sesivany> cwickert: I wanted to discuss mainly the f21 media, we will have to make a decision soon.
16:07:53 <cwickert> I am still at work and frankly speaking I was waiting for this meeting
16:08:15 <cwickert> I need to push this through the workstation WG
16:08:34 <cwickert> #topic F21 medie for ambassadors
16:08:35 <sesivany> cwickert: I haven't heard a strong demand from anyone else than the workstation WG for Fedora Workstation media.
16:08:39 <cwickert> #topic F21 media for ambassadors
16:08:47 <sesivany> #chair cwickert
16:08:47 <zodbot> Current chairs: cwickert sesivany
16:08:56 <cwickert> #topic F21 media for ambassadors
16:08:59 <cwickert> thanks
16:09:06 <cwickert> then only the workstation?
16:09:13 <cwickert> that would be easy then
16:09:23 <sesivany> cwickert: I guess so.
16:09:31 <cwickert> they are targeting 2 GB, so we could go for dual-arch on a normal dvd
16:09:42 <cwickert> did you get any quotes for the other media?
16:09:43 <sesivany> the server guys don't seem to be sure if they want something like this or not...
16:09:58 <cwickert> like the smaller ones or the webkeys (?)
16:10:49 <sesivany> cwickert: not yet, the guy hasn't responded, I will have to remind him or call the default contact, maybe he doesn't work for the company any more.
16:11:01 <sesivany> or it ended up in spam.
16:11:33 <sesivany> but the price for DVDs should be similar to the last price no matter if it's dual or single layer.
16:11:41 <sesivany> the price differences are not high.
16:11:48 <cwickert> I don't think that the smaller ones will be much cheaper
16:12:07 <cwickert> while we save shipping costs, we also loose space on the sleeves
16:12:21 <cwickert> how much capacity do the small dvds have?
16:12:32 * cwickert probably already asked that before, sorry
16:12:35 <sesivany> cwickert: they won't, their advantage is that they are lighter for shipping, disadvantage is the space on sleeves.
16:13:15 <sesivany> cwickert: I think it's 2.6GB for dual layer, I will have to look it up to be sure.
16:13:43 <sesivany> yes, 2.66GB
16:15:29 <cwickert> that is 1,3 something for a single
16:15:40 <cwickert> we will have to go DL anyway
16:15:53 <cwickert> do we still want i686?
16:15:57 <sesivany> cwickert: btw gnokii asked me to produce media for APAC, too.
16:16:19 <cwickert> and he is going to take them on the plane? ;)
16:16:54 <sesivany> cwickert: well, he wants me to ship it there, I told him it means a lot of problems with customs, and shipping won't be cheap either.
16:17:03 <yn1v> sorry, I was looking something else
16:17:17 <yn1v> I will scroll up to read the begining
16:19:05 <sesivany> cwickert: I told him someone he would have to send it from Germany because DHL only offers premium services here. It'd be a couple of thousand dollars with DHL Airmail. And if I send it with Czech Post I will not be able to track the package all the way because they hand it over to an international mail provider who hands it over to a local postal service.
16:19:25 <cwickert> sesivany: for polo shirts it does make sense, because we only send one or two shirts to every ambassador
16:19:41 <cwickert> I already shipped some to LATAM, I think even to yn1v
16:19:46 <sesivany> they use a standard tracking number collaborating postal services should be compatible with, but you know how it works in the third world.
16:19:50 <cwickert> but for media it does not make sense at all
16:20:17 <yn1v> cwickert: no, I think that you sent those to aeperezt
16:20:31 <cwickert> I mean, APAC is the source of all cheap stuff, I don't think it makes any sense to ship media there
16:21:01 <sesivany> cwickert: they even produced polo shirts themselves recently.
16:22:28 <sesivany> yn1v: you're probably a better person to answer the question whether we still need i686. I haven't seen 32-bit computers in EMEA for some time, but in LATAM and APAC it might be different.
16:23:26 <yn1v> There are some telecomunication companies giving away mini-laptops when you contact services
16:24:03 <cwickert> dafuq?
16:24:12 * cwickert thinks hat is funny
16:24:22 <yn1v> so, there is need for i386 media, but I don't think they will be able to handle WS
16:24:52 <yn1v> probably we will need to porduce locally some xfce media for those
16:25:19 <sesivany> yeah, that's also a question, I think most of the 32-bit computers are 8+ years old, they are not able to run WG anyway.
16:25:29 <yn1v> But yes, most computers are 64 bits
16:26:28 <yn1v> From my point of view, I think WS should be produced only 64. and leave 32 as a custom solution to each region if needed
16:26:31 <sesivany> I think the last widely sold 32-bit computers were some netbooks in 2008-10 and they were too weak at that time.
16:27:26 <sesivany> cwickert: if we should have some lightweight option, what should it be? Xfce, LXDE,...?
16:28:16 <cwickert> Xfce
16:28:23 <cwickert> too late for LXQt
16:28:42 <cwickert> and LXDE is more or less in low-maintenance mode
16:28:43 <yn1v> I meant that each region implement a custom solution if they need 32bits media, because it will be a small amount and most likely needing for a light weight desktop
16:28:55 <cwickert> we can still do an alternative media
16:29:15 <cwickert> say with KDE, MATE, Connamon, Xfce and LXDE
16:29:29 * cwickert did not test the size for this combination yet
16:29:40 <sesivany> cwickert: yeah, LXDE is dead pretty much, I'm be bit worried about the future of Xfce either, it seems to be really slow, I don't think they are able to adjust to all the changes: systemd, wayland,... we'll see.
16:29:44 <cwickert> #action cwickert to investigate sizes for an alternative media
16:30:10 <cwickert> sesivany: I don't think it's going away any time soon.
16:30:24 <cwickert> action cwickert to bring up the topic of media in the Workstaion WG again
16:31:00 <cwickert> action tuanta to clarify if the Server WG wants media and if they still want i686
16:31:04 <sesivany> too bad Enlightenment is not packaged for Fedora, that seems to be alive enough, they already support wayland,...
16:31:18 <cwickert> yes, and there also is Maui
16:31:23 <cwickert> or Hawai, whatever
16:31:37 <cwickert> also with wayland support
16:31:55 <cwickert> for the record: both server and workstation WG want to do x86_64 by default
16:32:25 <sesivany> ah, Christopher Meng and Lubomir Rintel are behind Maui... interesting.
16:34:56 <sesivany> I think our proposal should be 64-bit WG media + some alternative regions can pick.
16:35:33 <sesivany> and we'll see what people will say about it.
16:36:07 <sesivany> because we should move it forward, there was some discussion in the mailing list, but it has died out, no one takes it as a priority.
16:37:25 <sesivany> ok, is that all for today or you want to discuss something else too?
16:37:34 * sesivany will have to leave soon...
16:37:48 <yn1v> not from me
16:38:00 <sesivany> cwickert?
16:39:08 <cwickert> no,e
16:39:09 <cwickert> nope
16:39:18 <cwickert> sorry, already back at work and busy
16:39:24 <sesivany> ok, let's end it then.
16:39:26 <cwickert> ok
16:39:34 <sesivany> thank you for coming and meet you next week!
16:39:38 <sesivany> #endmeeting