17:00:13 <sesivany> #startmeeting FAmSCo 2014-01-13
17:00:13 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Jan 13 17:00:13 2014 UTC.  The chair is sesivany. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:00:13 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:00:14 <sesivany> #meetingname famsco
17:00:14 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famsco'
17:00:27 <sesivany> #topic Roll Call
17:00:27 <sesivany> .fas eischmann
17:00:27 <zodbot> sesivany: eischmann 'Jiri Eischmann' <eischmann@redhat.com>
17:00:57 <tuanta> .fas tuanta
17:00:58 <zodbot> tuanta: tuanta 'Truong Anh Tuan' <tuanta@iwayvietnam.com>
17:01:25 <aeperezt> .fas aeperezt
17:01:27 <zodbot> aeperezt: aeperezt 'Alejandro Perez' <alejandro.perez.torres@gmail.com>
17:02:42 <sesivany> great, we've got representatives from three regions
17:02:53 <cwickert> .fas cwickert
17:02:53 <zodbot> cwickert: cwickert 'Christoph Wickert' <christoph.wickert@googlemail.com>
17:02:53 <sesivany> and maybe nb can assist with NA.
17:03:14 <robyduck> .fas robyduck
17:03:14 <zodbot> robyduck: robyduck 'Robert Mayr' <robyduck@gmail.com>
17:03:34 <sesivany> ok, let's start
17:03:41 <sesivany> #topic Announcements
17:03:52 <sesivany> cwickert: do you want to announce the elections?
17:04:02 * LoKoMurdoK here
17:04:07 * LoKoMurdoK late
17:04:13 <LoKoMurdoK> .fas lbazan
17:04:14 <zodbot> LoKoMurdoK: lbazan 'Luis Enrique Bazán De León' <bazanluis20@gmail.com>
17:04:43 <sesivany> I've got one announcement...
17:05:48 <sesivany> #info FAmSCo 2013 was the most dutiful in the history cancelling just 2 out of 52 meetings!
17:06:12 <cwickert> #info only 7 hours to go! Nominate yourself now if you want to run for FAmSco, FESCo or the board. for more info see https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Elections
17:06:55 <sesivany> cwickert: thanks!
17:07:04 <tuanta> I did it
17:07:12 <sesivany> aeperezt: you don't want to run again?
17:07:40 <cwickert> aeperezt: it would be a pity if you didn't
17:07:42 <aeperezt> sesivany, not this time I may run next period
17:08:17 <sesivany> aeperezt: no problem, I think you've raised quite a few good candidates from LATAM. You can take a rest for a while :)
17:08:25 <sesivany> aeperezt: butz we will surely miss you.
17:08:33 <aeperezt> sesivany, thanks
17:08:40 <sesivany> it's also great to see a candidate from NA.
17:09:01 <aeperezt> sesivany, I will miss be around
17:09:20 <aeperezt> sesivany, yes we havve one candidate from NA
17:09:28 <sesivany> aeperezt: yes, I saw.
17:10:08 <sesivany> BTW I'd like to thank everyone for such a great record in the last year. 50/52 meetings is great.
17:10:25 <tuanta> :)
17:10:29 <sesivany> the board has a quite opposite record, something like 2/52 :-)
17:10:30 <LoKoMurdoK> :-)
17:10:34 <tuanta> thak you too
17:11:07 <sesivany> ok, let's move on to the next topic.
17:11:26 <sesivany> #topic FY2015 budget drafts
17:11:50 <sesivany> as we agreed last time we should propose our first regional drafts.
17:12:09 <sesivany> I've made one for EMEA.
17:12:09 <aeperezt> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/LATAM/Budget_draft_2015
17:12:16 <sesivany> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/EMEA/Budget:2015
17:12:22 <aeperezt> sesivany, we have latam here https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/LATAM/Budget_draft_2015
17:12:51 <sesivany> tuanta: what about APAC?
17:13:34 <tuanta> sorry, I sent a notice out, but no one respond me up to now :(
17:14:06 <tuanta> I will raise this up again and... again
17:14:16 <sesivany> tuanta: ok, bear in mind that we should have final versions by the end of January.
17:14:30 <tuanta> ok, got it. Thanks.
17:14:52 <sesivany> tuanta: if no one is interested in planning, then be a dictator and do it by yourself. There would be no other way.
17:15:49 <tuanta> ok. I will try to do this with some other active ones
17:15:52 <aeperezt> tuanta, sometimes it has to be that way
17:16:00 <sesivany> tuanta: use this year's numbers. Countries and events who have failed to fullfil their plans should not get the same amount of money next year.
17:16:06 <tuanta> it would not be big, but I think it would be more feasible
17:16:37 <tuanta> yes, I understand
17:17:29 <sesivany> they have to learn the classic corporate lesson "If you don't spend it you'll lose it" the hard way :)
17:18:14 <sesivany> Just a bit of explanation to the EMEA draft...
17:18:25 <tuanta> actually, APAC budget should be reset. It is a truth because we have not got much done this year
17:19:12 <sesivany> last year, we asked for $32k, but we didn't include any reserves. This year, we did and we also want to support Africa more. That's why the budget is $39.9k
17:19:29 <tuanta> that's a good point
17:19:52 <sesivany> IDLELO, the biggest African event, is BTW the most expensive event in EMEA next year.
17:20:21 <tuanta> I think you should try to bring more people from Europe to events and activities in Africa
17:20:24 <sesivany> but it's the only large event there worth supporting, so we're willing to do that.
17:21:06 <aeperezt> sesivany, seems like you are on the right direction
17:21:11 <sesivany> unfortunately, we see interest and activity even in countries we can't legally cooperate with: Syria and Sudan.
17:21:29 <sesivany> it's said that politics hurt our cooperation :-/
17:21:40 <tuanta> yes
17:22:10 <aeperezt> sesivany, yea I have seen that, it is complicated
17:22:44 <sesivany> the same goes for North Korea in APAC, but I guess we don't have many contributors from there :)
17:23:00 <tuanta> It is from outside. We can not do anything
17:23:39 <aeperezt> sesivany, we have the same issue with Cuba on Latam, last year was a huge buzz about the support for Cubans on IRC channels
17:23:42 <sesivany> it's not only such countries. I wanted to send a package with swag to Libya and the Post returned it because they don't send packages to Libya due to embargo.
17:23:55 <tuanta> I think, the biggest lost case in EMEA is Iran
17:24:13 <tuanta> they do a lot of FOSS work
17:24:34 <sesivany> anyway, we've gotten a bit off topic. I just wanted to say that Africa is challenging.
17:24:53 <sesivany> aeperezt: do you have anything to say about the LATAM draft?
17:25:13 <aeperezt> sesivany, we have increase it,
17:25:39 <aeperezt> we added more support for latinoware the second largest event on latam
17:26:05 <aeperezt> and many other events on Peru, that has a very active community now
17:26:13 <aeperezt> so we need to support them better
17:26:31 <sesivany> sure
17:26:37 <tuanta> +1
17:26:55 <tuanta> more money to more active countries/regions
17:26:57 <sesivany> and I think you deserve it because we've been doing well this year in terms of budget.
17:27:00 <aeperezt> we also increase the media support as we may need to send more media for all events we want to break the media barrier now
17:27:03 <LoKoMurdoK> tuanta: +1
17:27:16 <aeperezt> that we know we can send them by regular mail with low cost
17:27:33 <sesivany> aeperezt: do you produce media in LATAM?
17:27:38 <aeperezt> sesivany, yes
17:27:48 <sesivany> aeperezt: how many and where?
17:27:52 <LoKoMurdoK> Brasil
17:28:45 <sesivany> tuanta: does APAC produce any media?
17:28:45 <aeperezt> sesivany, we have a contributor from Paraguay that has a way to produce 10000 media from china and get it on Paraguay for around 1500
17:28:56 <aeperezt> so we are going to explore that option
17:29:02 <tuanta> we do that locally in each country
17:29:13 <sesivany> aeperezt: wow, that's a good price. Make sure the media will boot :)
17:29:41 <sesivany> we pay $.30 for a dual-layer DVD which I think is quite a good price.
17:29:48 <tuanta> there are some custom barriers in each APAC country
17:30:03 <aeperezt> sesivany, right we used to work on a media factory so that we will see how it works
17:30:44 <sesivany> #info LATAM and EMEA have submitted first budget drafts. APAC will do that.
17:31:15 <sesivany> for the NA draft, I'm going to contact Ruth.
17:31:45 <tuanta> sesivany: you should mark it an action
17:31:46 <sesivany> I don't know what's their procedure to create a budget and if they have one.
17:31:57 <tuanta> for me too
17:32:17 <sesivany> last year, they created it at FUDCon NA, but there is no such event any more.
17:32:24 <tuanta> #action tuanta to prepare for APAC Budget Plan in FY2015
17:32:55 <sesivany> #action sesivany to ask rsuehle about a budget draft from NA.
17:33:22 <sesivany> anything else to discuss about budgets?
17:34:19 <sesivany> ok, I've got another big topic to discuss today...
17:34:37 <aeperezt> ok
17:34:37 <sesivany> #topic Fedora.NEXT and how it affects ambassadors
17:35:09 <sesivany> Fedora.NEXT might be the biggest change in Fedora Project since 2003.
17:35:36 <sesivany> for example, it looks like there won't be one Fedora as a product, but three different ones.
17:36:01 <sesivany> so for example the question is what are we going to distribute on DVDs?
17:36:02 <tuanta> some ambassadors has been join into Working groups so it is fine to them
17:36:16 <tuanta> other ambassadors should start learning it asap
17:37:11 <sesivany> we discussed it with cwickert and others at EMEA FAD and it was a heated discussion sometimes :)
17:37:14 <tuanta> these changes would effect the next F21 immediately
17:37:34 <robyduck> !
17:37:35 <sesivany> and another thing is that Fedora 21 won't be released before August.
17:37:50 <sesivany> robyduck: just speak, there are not many of us to follow the protocol.
17:38:05 <robyduck> I know that many things of fedora-next are still in progress
17:38:06 <tuanta> should we have an official announcement to the ambassadors list?
17:38:11 * cwickert does not think Fedora.NEXt affects ambassadors – I mean, it affects all of us, but not the ambassadors in particular
17:38:16 <robyduck> and there are many meetings actually
17:38:19 <robyduck> sesivany: I'm involved also as websites, and I think we need a better comunication about fedora.next
17:38:48 <sesivany> robyduck: the problem is that no one still knows what's going to be...
17:38:55 <robyduck> I mean, devel is involved, the single WG also, but I can't think that people can follow all the progress
17:39:00 <sesivany> I've heard so many proposals already...
17:39:09 <robyduck> sesivany: indeed
17:39:18 <robyduck> should we bring this up to FESCO?
17:39:33 <sesivany> I've started seeing some convergence, but there are still no definitive plans.
17:39:46 <tuanta> cwickert: I think it affects much. Being an ambassadors, you should know about Fedora.Next to introduce to others
17:39:47 <sesivany> robyduck: I don't think they know more than us.
17:39:54 <robyduck> I mean, would it be possible to create a sort of "point zero" about Server, workstation and CLoud?
17:40:38 <sesivany> let's discuss what is going to change for sure, that's release cycle, code name and most likely products.
17:40:52 <robyduck> tuanta: sesivany: there is a nice slideshow to help to understand what fedora-next is, or at least will be
17:41:17 <robyduck> http://mattdm.org/fedora/next/
17:41:27 <sesivany> BTW what is your opinion about cancelling code names?
17:41:30 <tuanta> yes, I read it
17:41:32 <robyduck> this can surely help the ambassadors to speak a bit about it
17:42:07 <robyduck> sesivany: I'm ok with canceling them, but I see also difficulties, for the design team for example
17:42:25 <sesivany> I don't agree with the decision of the board to cancel something without having any replacement.
17:42:39 <sesivany> I think that code names helped us with marketing.
17:43:03 <robyduck> ok sesivany but I didn't like the way we did it before. Then let's say: propose a nice name (and not related to the other name)
17:43:29 <tuanta> +1 sesivany
17:43:36 <aeperezt> sesivany, codename give marketing theme, with out them it is going to be difficult to do marketing campaings
17:43:53 <LoKoMurdoK> aeperezt: +1
17:44:23 <sesivany> robyduck: IMHO there was no problem with the process. The problem was that the board and legals were too strict while approving proposed names. All the good ones were usually rejected.
17:44:38 <aeperezt> which is worst is that they change it, with no replacement after two of the most great marketing names
17:44:45 <robyduck> sesivany: that's right, the best were rejected
17:45:09 <robyduck> but there could be many other nice names without that rule
17:45:17 <sesivany> robyduck: for example, they rejected Catarina just because there is some IT company called the same, but it's a general name for Christ's sake!
17:46:02 <robyduck> yes I remember
17:46:24 <sesivany> that's it's hard to come up with good release names.
17:46:41 <sesivany> but I still do think that having code names makes sense.
17:46:47 <robyduck> sesivany: do you want us to request a reintroduction of the names?
17:47:27 <sesivany> from what I heard from the board members, if someone comes up with a new initiative for the code names, they can.
17:47:41 <robyduck> I guess there wasn't a really discussion about keeping names or not, Board just dropped the names
17:47:59 <sesivany> robyduck: not sure, but we could definitely think about starting something new.
17:48:18 <robyduck> let's handle it like the wallpapers
17:49:35 <robyduck> but without all these rules, just ask to stay within legal, that would be easier fo all and we could get nice release names too
17:49:45 <sesivany> or we can set some theme. I think terms from physics and computer science have been quite popular with the community.
17:50:48 <sesivany> let's just think about it. We still have time.
17:50:58 <robyduck> +1
17:51:16 <sesivany> #info FAmSCo will think about how to react to dropping release names by the board.
17:51:44 <aeperezt> +1
17:51:47 <LoKoMurdoK> +1
17:51:56 <sesivany> the problem with the board is that it's not really functioning. I was considering to run for the board, but I really don't want to.
17:52:15 <tuanta> :)
17:52:28 <sesivany> I'd rather stay in a committee that actually works.
17:52:47 <aeperezt> sesivany, if the board is not functioning we need people running for it to start making work
17:53:35 <aeperezt> sesivany, if we need to bring more energy to the board then we need to start getting our selft into it
17:54:01 <sesivany> aeperezt: I'm not sure if lack of people is something that makes the board paralyzed.
17:54:23 <sesivany> cwickert and jreznik could tell stories about it :)
17:54:43 <tuanta> cwickert has some experience with Board
17:55:18 <tuanta> we have the same thoughts, sesivany :)
17:55:48 <tuanta> next topic?
17:55:51 <sesivany> but let's not bash about the board. I hope they will find their agenda after all the changes.
17:55:58 <robyduck> yes, let's move on
17:56:01 <sesivany> tuanta: I don't have any.
17:56:01 <tuanta> we have only 5 minutes left
17:56:11 <sesivany> so if you have any, let's propose it.
17:56:15 <sesivany> or openfloor
17:56:28 <tuanta> how about APAC FUDCon
17:56:40 <sesivany> tuanta: good point!
17:56:45 <tuanta> I am not sure the process to make it
17:56:50 <sesivany> #topic FUDCon APAC
17:57:03 <sesivany> tuanta: you should propose it to FPL.
17:57:21 <tuanta> now there is a team proposed a bid: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Bid_for_Beijing_2014
17:57:22 <sesivany> FAmSCo can only server as an advisory committee in this.
17:57:47 <sesivany> great to see Beijing
17:57:48 <tuanta> they also create a ticket in FAmSCo Trac
17:57:58 <tuanta> I think it is the wrong way
17:58:02 <sesivany> tuanta: do you think there will be any other bids?
17:58:19 <tuanta> just that only bid right now
17:58:30 <sesivany> tuanta: FUDCon-planning is more appropriate track.
17:58:37 <tuanta> I don't think they will have more competitors
17:58:55 <tuanta> yes, thanks. I think so too
17:59:02 <sesivany> tuanta: but they should contact rbergeron directly.
17:59:05 <tuanta> but I would like to hear about the whole process
17:59:24 <tuanta> ok, I will tell them that. Thanks sesivany
17:59:36 <aeperezt> Latam fudcon has two bit Cordova Argentina and Managua Nicaragua
17:59:44 <aeperezt> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Project_Wiki/FUDCon_Cordoba_2014
18:00:01 <sesivany> #info FUDCon APAC 2014 has one bid: Beijing
18:00:08 <sesivany> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Bid_for_Beijing_2014
18:00:13 <LoKoMurdoK> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Bid_for_Managua_2014}
18:00:17 <aeperezt> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Bid_for_Managua_2014
18:00:41 <sesivany> #info FUDCon LATAM 2014 has two bids: Cordova, Argentina and Managua, Nicaragua.
18:00:54 <sesivany> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Bid_for_Managua_2014
18:01:00 <tuanta> nice
18:01:03 <LoKoMurdoK> :-)
18:01:25 <aeperezt> latam will evaluate the two bids next latam metting so we can submit for FPL and Famsco reviw before the end of Jan
18:01:47 <sesivany> tuanta: you should do the same
18:02:09 <sesivany> tuanta: propose it to the FPL, but also discuss it within the regional community.
18:02:09 <tuanta> good point, thanks
18:02:42 <robyduck> APAC FUDCon is planned rather near to january, APAC should do it ASAP
18:03:24 <tuanta> IIRC, last time, FUDCon APAC (in KL) did in May
18:03:30 <tuanta> May 2012
18:03:34 <aeperezt> tuanta, yes you need to review it asap
18:03:40 <tuanta> ok, I see
18:03:41 <sesivany> not much time
18:04:01 <robyduck> tuanta: yes, and Bejing is planned for 23-25 may too
18:04:08 <aeperezt> tuanta, to have time to do all you need
18:04:15 <sesivany> #action tuanta to help push the Beijing bid forward.
18:04:16 <tuanta> yes, I see
18:04:33 <aeperezt> tuanta, if I can be of any help let me know
18:04:46 <tuanta> ok, thanks
18:04:55 <sesivany> is that it for today?
18:04:55 <tuanta> that's all from me today
18:05:07 <aeperezt> I think so
18:05:10 <sesivany> great, I'll end the meeting.
18:05:24 <sesivany> thank you for coming today and meet you next week!
18:05:34 <aeperezt> Thanks to you.
18:05:36 <robyduck> see you all
18:05:41 <sesivany> #endmeeting