17:01:11 <aeperezt> #startmeeting
17:01:11 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Aug 19 17:01:11 2013 UTC.  The chair is aeperezt. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:01:11 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:01:30 <aeperezt> #meetingname Famsco
17:01:30 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famsco'
17:01:31 <tuanta> .has tuanta
17:01:39 <LoKoMurdoK> .fas lbazan
17:01:39 <zodbot> LoKoMurdoK: lbazan 'Luis Enrique Bazán De León' <bazanluis20@gmail.com>
17:01:42 <tuanta> .fas tuanta
17:01:42 <aeperezt> #topic rollcal
17:01:42 <zodbot> tuanta: tuanta 'Truong Anh Tuan' <tuanta@iwayvietnam.com>
17:01:49 <aeperezt> .fas aeperezt
17:01:50 <zodbot> aeperezt: aeperezt 'Alejandro Perez' <alejandro.perez.torres@gmail.com>
17:01:53 <robyduck> .fas robyduck
17:01:53 <zodbot> robyduck: robyduck 'Robert Mayr' <robyduck@gmail.com>
17:02:13 <cwickert> .fas cwickert
17:02:14 <zodbot> cwickert: cwickert 'Christoph Wickert' <christoph.wickert@googlemail.com>
17:02:56 <aeperezt> cwickert, jiri may not be here today he is vactions righ?
17:03:02 <cwickert> right
17:03:30 <aeperezt> #info Jiri is on vacations therefor he may no make the meeting
17:05:29 <aeperezt> what do we have on the agenda
17:05:40 <LoKoMurdoK> cardholder
17:05:44 <LoKoMurdoK> ?
17:06:48 <LoKoMurdoK> aeperezt: APAC cardholder
17:06:50 <aeperezt> cwickert, is there any new discution that we need to add to famsco track that you talk on flock
17:07:14 <cwickert> umm
17:07:17 <cwickert> no, not really
17:07:29 <cwickert> I wasn't able to get a hold of Ruth
17:07:41 <cwickert> but Kushal is willing to do the card stuff
17:08:14 <cwickert> #action cwickert to maik kushal and rsuehle about credit card
17:08:27 <cwickert> zodbot not here?
17:08:31 <LoKoMurdoK> :o
17:08:32 <cwickert> zodbot: hi
17:09:19 <aeperezt> #chair cwickert LoKoMurdoK tuanta robyduck
17:09:19 <zodbot> Current chairs: LoKoMurdoK aeperezt cwickert robyduck tuanta
17:09:26 <cwickert> thanks
17:09:32 <aeperezt> cwickert, sorry
17:09:40 <cwickert> #topic APAC credit card
17:10:09 <cwickert> #info Kushal Das is probably going to become the new credit card holder for APAC
17:10:26 <tuanta> yes, kushal just needs to confirm with his boss
17:10:26 <LoKoMurdoK> #link https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/333
17:10:29 <cwickert> other than that there is not much to say I think
17:11:01 <cwickert> how about we discuss FLOCK a bit?
17:11:14 <aeperezt> cwickert, I like to
17:11:17 <cwickert> #topic discussions at FLOCK
17:11:39 <cwickert> first of all, tuanta gave an excellent talk about budget planning in APAC
17:11:49 <cwickert> tuanta: are the slides available somewhere?
17:11:59 <aeperezt> cwickert, also the idea on how to mark inactive ambassadors
17:12:28 <tuanta> thanks, It's available on sched.org and speakerdeck
17:13:01 <tuanta> #link http://flocktofedora.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/flock-2013-Fedora-Ambassadors-Regional-Annual-Planning.pdf
17:13:03 <tuanta> and
17:13:41 <tuanta> #link https://speakerdeck.com/tuanta/fedora-ambassadors-regional-annual-planning
17:14:06 <cwickert> thanks
17:14:22 <cwickert> the next thing are the inactive ambassadors
17:14:27 <cwickert> I hate having to discuss this again
17:14:35 <cwickert> because we are opening a can of worms
17:14:56 <cwickert> I mean, we have beaten that horse to death already several times on ambassadors list
17:15:04 <cwickert> so let's not repeat that here
17:15:33 <LoKoMurdoK> cwickert: +1
17:15:46 <cwickert> I think we have come up with a good compromise
17:15:47 <cwickert> FAS already knows active and incactive
17:15:47 <cwickert> on a technical level
17:15:58 <cwickert> if you do not change your password and do not log in, your account is set to inactive
17:16:08 <cwickert> and we now want to display this information on the country list page
17:16:16 <cwickert> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/CountryList
17:16:21 <cwickert> but that's all
17:16:50 <cwickert> inactive ambassadors will still be listed, but marked as inactive
17:16:59 <cwickert> lile: John Doe (inactive)
17:17:05 <cwickert> s/lile/like
17:17:23 <cwickert> andbody knows where the script to generate the wiki page lives?
17:17:39 <cwickert> ah
17:17:40 <cwickert> https://fedorahosted.org/fama/browser/membership-mwclient-0.3-prod.py
17:17:40 <aeperezt> cwickert, well that at least give a clear idea if we really try to reach them
17:18:24 <cwickert> look, we already have a script for that: https://git.fedorahosted.org/cgit/fama.git/tree/fas-group-inactive.py
17:18:59 <cwickert> I will talk to fab to implement this
17:19:06 <tuanta> cool
17:19:07 <cwickert> but before I want to discuss this with fama
17:19:21 <cwickert> but I don't want to bring this up on the ambassadors list again
17:19:26 <aeperezt> cwickert, great, can I add to the action part of the meeting
17:19:29 <aeperezt> :-)
17:19:31 <cwickert> because it will result in endless discussions :)
17:20:27 <aeperezt> cwickert, that will help
17:20:27 <LoKoMurdoK> I think it's an excellent idea! +1
17:20:29 <cwickert> #action cwickert to write a mail about implementing the 'inactive' ambassadors compromise in the country list
17:20:53 <aeperezt> cwickert, specially when trying to reach an ambassador for a country and he is inactive
17:20:53 <cwickert> LoKoMurdoK: agreed
17:21:03 <cwickert> but all other ideas are BS
17:21:18 <cwickert> christos even wanted to remove ambassadors from the group
17:21:23 <cwickert> and I think this is just wrong
17:21:24 <robyduck> got disconnected... :(
17:21:41 <cwickert> I mean, we don't remove packagers from the packagers group either, we just take their packages
17:21:53 <cwickert> they can come back at any point in time and start working again
17:22:01 <cwickert> and I want the same for the ambassadors
17:22:08 <cwickert> no need to re-mentor them again
17:22:12 <robyduck> cwickert: +1
17:22:15 <cwickert> agreed?
17:22:18 <LoKoMurdoK> cwickert: +1
17:22:37 <cwickert> please please please let us all agree and end this stupid topic ;)
17:22:42 <aeperezt> cwickert, well it could be wrong but what when a ambassadors express his desire to be aout of the group
17:23:01 <cwickert> aeperezt: people can still remove themselves manually
17:23:06 <cwickert> we had this in the past
17:23:09 <aeperezt> cwickert, it is different when you resign to be an ambassador
17:23:14 <cwickert> but only one or two times
17:23:36 <aeperezt> cwickert, but some of them don't do it they just blog about it
17:23:46 <LoKoMurdoK> cwickert: if the person want to return or have the desire, take  the process 0
17:24:15 <cwickert> LoKoMurdoK: well, if you removed yourself, I think it is fair you need to go through mentoring again
17:24:30 <LoKoMurdoK> yes
17:25:06 <robyduck> but this is really a corne case, we shouldn't discuss about this
17:25:06 <cwickert> when somebody announced "I don't want to be ambassador any longer, the project is stupid and you all suck", then he needs a very good rationale to change his ming
17:25:08 <cwickert> mind*
17:25:18 <robyduck> I'm ok with not removing inactive ambassadors
17:25:30 <robyduck> we can find other ways to mark them as "less active"
17:26:00 <cwickert> and then he needs to convince his mentor that he really changes his mind and will not leave with bells and whistles again the next time he disagrees with a decision
17:26:07 <aeperezt> cwickert, we have those cases but they remain on the ambassadors list
17:26:13 <cwickert> anyway, I think we all agree, lets move on
17:26:26 <aeperezt> cwickert, right
17:26:28 <LoKoMurdoK> what are the causes of inactivity?
17:26:35 <cwickert> aeperezt: right, I only recall 2 in ~6 years
17:26:53 <cwickert> LoKoMurdoK: real life! (yes, some people really have one ;))
17:27:24 <aeperezt> cwickert, at lease people will stop asking for help to ambassadors that will not awnser and will look for active ones
17:28:09 <cwickert> that is the plan
17:28:15 <cwickert> ok, anything else about this?
17:28:35 <cwickert> how about the websites? or census first?
17:28:38 <aeperezt> cwickert, tuanta any other interesting thing that happend on flock that we may want to review on the meeting
17:28:53 <aeperezt> cwickert, census
17:28:55 <robyduck> uhmm
17:28:58 <cwickert> ok
17:29:13 <cwickert> so I gave a talk about the "Ambassadors Census"
17:29:13 <aeperezt> cwickert, then websites
17:29:25 <cwickert> the idea is to make a survey among the ambassadors
17:29:27 <robyduck> I think it would be better if I have something to present all of you about the website
17:29:49 <cwickert> but not the whole group of ambassadors but only 1-2 people per country
17:29:59 <cwickert> we want to know how the local communities are doing
17:30:05 <cwickert> so we ask them a few questions
17:30:10 * cwickert looks...
17:30:48 <cwickert> I created a form in Google Drive, you can see it here: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/19V3_WQGoVcv3R6Viq4Y8l2jOQ3MJ5gyQOw_WKR1YPrw/viewform
17:31:07 <cwickert> but we have agreed to so this in limesurvey instead
17:31:18 <cwickert> because Google Drive is not free software
17:31:36 <cwickert> we have a limesurvey instance on openshift
17:31:40 <aeperezt> cwickert, tatica did same for latam on Google drive
17:31:42 <aeperezt> I think
17:31:43 <cwickert> but I need to create the form there
17:31:52 <cwickert> aeperezt: yeah, she was too quick
17:32:05 * cwickert looks if any replies have come into his table...
17:33:04 <cwickert> oh, there are already 6 responses
17:33:20 <cwickert> anyway, I will move that stuff to limesurves
17:33:26 <cwickert> limesurvey*
17:33:36 <cwickert> and then I will mail the EMEA folks
17:33:41 <robyduck> great :)
17:33:56 <cwickert> aeperezt, LoKoMurdoK: can you work with tatica on a list for LATAM?
17:33:57 * robyduck likes this form very much
17:34:10 <aeperezt> cwickert, yes
17:34:15 <cwickert> tuanta: any you make one for APAC
17:34:25 <tuanta> yes, I will
17:34:28 <cwickert> the goal is to identify the leaders of the local communities
17:34:40 <cwickert> like 1-2 people for every country
17:35:01 <cwickert> and if somebody wants more or or other questions, just drop me a mail
17:35:08 <LoKoMurdoK> yes!
17:36:06 <cwickert> ok, cool
17:36:06 <cwickert> #action cwickert to move the Google Drive form to limesurvey and let the others know when done
17:36:14 <tuanta> It is better if there is any way to share the form "source"
17:36:27 <cwickert> #action aeperezt and LoKoMurdoK to work on a list of people to ask for LATAM. tatica can help
17:36:35 <cwickert> #undo
17:36:35 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x26c85d50>
17:36:35 <tuanta> I meant we can reuse it
17:37:08 <cwickert> #action aeperezt, LoKoMurdoK and tatica to identify the 'leaders' of the local communities, 1-2 people per country.
17:37:30 <cwickert> #action tuanta to provide a list of 'leaders' for the APAC countries
17:38:07 <cwickert> tuanta: we will do it in limesirvey anyway, so if you want something changed, pleas just write me a mail
17:38:22 <tuanta> great
17:38:50 <tuanta> then we can use the same form for all regions
17:38:50 <cwickert> ok, questions?
17:39:02 <aeperezt> no from me
17:39:15 <LoKoMurdoK> nop
17:39:19 <cwickert> ok, cool
17:39:25 <cwickert> then websites
17:39:40 <cwickert> robyduck: did you follow the discussions, anything to say?
17:40:00 <robyduck> yes I followed, I'm fine with all
17:40:03 <robyduck> for the websites
17:40:48 <robyduck> we spoke about redesigning the events page and the community page, adding also an ambassador map to find them easier
17:41:14 <robyduck> we will add all the links to the main website of fp.org
17:41:25 <robyduck> and it should be done within two steps
17:41:26 <cwickert> as Picard would say: "Make it so!"
17:41:33 <robyduck> events and ambassadors have priority
17:41:38 <cwickert> right
17:41:41 <robyduck> :)
17:41:50 <cwickert> one thing from me
17:41:57 <robyduck> sure cwickert
17:42:00 <cwickert> let us focus on the important stuff
17:42:36 <robyduck> ambassadors and events, no?
17:42:45 <cwickert> yes
17:43:11 <cwickert> I think that tatica also wants to have a common design for the various *.fedoracommuinity.org sites
17:43:16 <cwickert> but this is a huge task
17:43:34 <cwickert> as they all use different CMS, forums and whatnot
17:43:36 <robyduck> cwickert: we can't decide the design of the local community sites
17:43:50 <cwickert> robyduck: that's what I was trying to explain tatica
17:44:03 <cwickert> we cannot limit their freedom
17:44:07 <robyduck> they are not official sites, so we can't even say them: hey your design has to look like this
17:44:14 <robyduck> yes
17:44:21 <robyduck> agrre with you cwickert
17:44:23 <cwickert> all communities are different, they have different needs
17:44:29 <robyduck> +1
17:44:32 <aeperezt> cwickert, we may need to deside some sort of standard
17:44:56 <cwickert> aeperezt: but it should be an offer, not mandatory
17:45:09 <robyduck> but we can do something important
17:45:16 <robyduck> we can define guidelines
17:46:00 <robyduck> I wrote something down on the wiki as a draft
17:46:02 <aeperezt> robyduck, +1
17:46:12 <LoKoMurdoK> robyduck: +1
17:46:29 <robyduck> just looking for the link if you want to read it
17:46:50 <aeperezt> cwickert, we need to figured out a way to have that latam has a huge issue with local community domains
17:47:46 <robyduck> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Robyduck/Fedora_community_guidelines
17:47:46 <aeperezt> having *.fedoracommunity.org basically solve all and has that as oficial site we have must of the domain on latam countries with domains and pages that are broken
17:48:54 <cwickert> robyduck: I am fine with guidelines, but we already have a wiki page for that
17:49:07 <robyduck> cwickert: not really
17:49:11 <cwickert> at least for the request and approval of a *fedoracommunity.org domain
17:49:32 <cwickert> both pages should be linked I think
17:49:34 <robyduck> these are community guidelines, and for sure the existing page is included there
17:49:43 <robyduck> the actual is about domains etc
17:50:08 <robyduck> yes, but my guidelines is a draft and should be first revisited and approved
17:50:12 <cwickert> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Local_community_domains
17:50:24 <robyduck> yep
17:50:25 <cwickert> ok
17:50:37 <cwickert> please let the board also have a look over them
17:51:01 <robyduck> this one is more, how do I create a community and what should I do to have it working the right way?
17:51:17 <robyduck> ok
17:51:31 <robyduck> you can mark it as action if you are all fine with it
17:51:55 <tuanta> I have just pointed this page out to a new ambassador in Mynamar this afternoon
17:52:26 <robyduck> oh, and about less active ambassadors: we could think to mark them on the map with a yellow pin instead of a green pin
17:53:04 <cwickert> robyduck: I think we should set some requirements, I think we can even be a little more strict than we are currently, but let's make sure it sounds like a helpful HowTo and not like a set of rules
17:53:05 <robyduck> tuanta: yes, me too in the ML :)
17:53:23 <robyduck> cwickert: yes, I agree
17:53:39 <robyduck> we want to help people get a local community running fine
17:53:46 <cwickert> keep it nice and friendly instead of "resistance is futile" :)
17:53:54 <robyduck> and at this point we can define some reccomandations ;)
17:53:57 * cwickert has his Star Trek day today
17:54:02 <robyduck> hehe
17:54:21 <robyduck> you flow with the dreamlifter I guess
17:54:24 <robyduck> ^^
17:55:56 <cwickert> ok
17:55:59 <cwickert> anything more?
17:56:06 <aeperezt> nop
17:56:16 <robyduck> not at the moment
17:56:22 <LoKoMurdoK> no
17:57:44 <cwickert> ok
17:57:47 <tuanta> nope from me to
17:57:53 <cwickert> then I suggest we close this meeting
17:57:59 <aeperezt> ok
17:57:59 <cwickert> thanks everybody for coming
17:58:06 <aeperezt> thanks all for coming
17:58:08 <LoKoMurdoK> :-)
17:58:11 <LoKoMurdoK> bless!
17:58:11 <aeperezt> #endmeeting