17:00:12 <sesivany> #startmeeting FAmSCo 2013-06-17
17:00:12 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Jun 17 17:00:12 2013 UTC.  The chair is sesivany. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:00:12 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:00:18 <sesivany> #meetingname famsco
17:00:18 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famsco'
17:00:25 <sesivany> #topic Roll call
17:00:31 <sesivany> .fas eischmann
17:00:32 <zodbot> sesivany: eischmann 'Jiri Eischmann' <eischmann@redhat.com>
17:01:43 <sesivany> aeperezt, nb: ping
17:02:00 <aeperezt> .fas aeperezt
17:02:01 <zodbot> aeperezt: aeperezt 'Alejandro Perez' <alejandro.perez.torres@gmail.com>
17:03:13 <aeperezt> sesivany, pong
17:03:36 <sesivany> aeperezt: hi, welcome. just two of us, so far...
17:03:47 <aeperezt> sesivany, yes
17:04:06 <aeperezt> seems like complicated time for people
17:05:49 <sesivany> aeperezt: after elections, with new members, we can look for a different time.
17:06:13 <sesivany> but I'm afraid we won't find anything better. We're simply spread across the globe.
17:06:57 <aeperezt> sesivany, right I was thinking about the same
17:08:42 <sesivany> ok, let's proceed with Announcements, hopefully someone will join us meanwhile.
17:08:47 <sesivany> #topic Announcements
17:09:33 <sesivany> I've got one very obvious...
17:09:41 * cwickert is sorry for being late
17:10:20 <sesivany> #info The Fedora 20 elections are on, including FAmSCo, please vote: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Elections
17:10:54 <sesivany> cwickert: no problem, it was just me and aeperezt here.
17:10:59 <sesivany> cwickert: you didn't miss anything.
17:11:19 <sesivany> any other announcements?
17:11:57 <sesivany> hopefully, we'll get some new, enthusiastic blood after the elections :)
17:12:07 <aeperezt> sesivany, right
17:13:11 <sesivany> ok, let's start with the first topic.
17:13:31 <sesivany> #topic Action items from the last meeting
17:14:07 <sesivany> as I promised I sent rsuehle and rbergeron a message asking about the CC holder for APAC.
17:14:18 <sesivany> unfortunately no answer yet
17:14:37 <sesivany> but it was Red Hat Summit last week, so they were probably busy.
17:15:27 <sesivany> #info no answer from rsuehle and rbergeron about community CC for APAC
17:16:05 <sesivany> aeperezt, cwickert: any comment on this?
17:16:27 <sesivany> I think it should definitely be our priority for the next term.
17:17:28 <cwickert> nag them
17:17:31 <cwickert> again
17:17:34 <cwickert> daily
17:17:39 <aeperezt> sesivany, yes, we need to stablish some procedure to renew or get new CC holders
17:17:47 <cwickert> we could also ask kital who was involved from the finance dept
17:17:58 <sesivany> cwickert: it sounds like a candidate for a cron job :)
17:18:00 <cwickert> and approach them directly
17:18:16 <cwickert> I mean, we could at least ask them to send us the paperwork
17:18:41 <sesivany> cwickert: kital is a good idea. I'll ask him... and nag rsuehle and rbergeron some more too.
17:19:19 <sesivany> #action sesivany to ask kital who from the finance dept of RH was involved in issuing community credit cards.
17:20:41 <sesivany> another issue is the budget report from NA. I wrote inode0 about it (famsco mailing list cc'ed), but no response yet.
17:21:06 <sesivany> I have absolutely no idea what's going on there budget-wise.
17:21:38 <sesivany> and since they've got by far the biggest budget, it's the biggest risk for our overall budget...
17:23:46 <cwickert> I think it's on the wiki
17:23:57 <cwickert> at least what inode0 paid
17:24:21 <cwickert> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Inode0/community_credit_card_report
17:25:09 <cwickert> #action cwickert to search the credit card reports and add them to the budget pages
17:25:28 <cwickert> #action cwickert to update some numbers from the last quarter for EMEA
17:25:43 <sesivany> yeah, but it's just a part of it, a lot is paid directly by Red Hat (rsuehle).
17:25:44 <cwickert> sesivany: kital reimbursed me, so there is only one more invoice
17:25:51 <cwickert> other than that, we are good in EMEA
17:25:58 <cwickert> and then we can close that quarter
17:26:10 <sesivany> cwickert: great
17:26:57 <cwickert> as for NA, I have no idea
17:27:09 <cwickert> other than to nag rsuehle and inode0 again
17:27:27 <sesivany> APAC guys were supposed to present their report today because they weren't quite sure last time, but none of them is here apparently.
17:27:31 <cwickert> actually I think rsuehle is the one to do the report
17:28:00 <cwickert> inode0 already is doing quite a lot, let somebody else do the report
17:28:12 <cwickert> he should only held responsible for his CC report
17:28:31 <sesivany> cwickert: yeah, I agree. inode0 even told me they had no idea what other payments in NA had been done... which doesn't sound very transparently.
17:29:10 <cwickert> one more thing to discuss at FLOCK
17:29:27 <cwickert> frankly speaking I am a bit shocked what is going on in NA
17:29:41 <cwickert> I mean, they were one of the most active communities
17:29:41 <sesivany> cwickert: and that's exactly the problem with having no regional treasurer, one person responsible for the budget.
17:29:53 <cwickert> and I thought they had good workflows for everything
17:30:02 <cwickert> but apparently they have not
17:30:21 <sesivany> because in EMEA, I put all kinds of expenses together (kitals, other cards, direct payments)  and put them in the budget.
17:31:12 <sesivany> it's definitely something we should discuss at FLock.
17:32:26 <sesivany> cwickert: I think they have had almost no processes so far which probably suited them, but if you want to do some budgeting, planning etc., it's a nightmare.
17:32:54 <cwickert> yes
17:33:16 <cwickert> it worked for years, but it strongly depended on certain people
17:33:33 <cwickert> nobody else had a clue and there is no documentation
17:34:03 <cwickert> but on the bright side, we now have more reasons to establish more process there :)
17:34:17 <sesivany> cwickert: yeah, and our budget amount was declining because no one made sure we spent what we were able to... because no one had a clue.
17:34:30 <cwickert> I mean, in the past they always told is "No, don't force your rules on us, we get alone very well"
17:34:40 <cwickert> obviously they are not
17:35:00 <cwickert> ok, lets kick b*tts at FLOCK
17:35:23 <cwickert> or should we bring this up on the list now?
17:35:44 <sesivany> we should also set some general communication between NA and FAmSCo. We won't have any NA members in FAmSCo which will be a bit challenging.
17:36:40 <sesivany> cwickert: frankly, it's an issue I'd like to discuss rather in person.
17:37:19 <cwickert> ack
17:37:23 <cwickert> +1
17:37:31 <aeperezt> sesivany, since there will not be any NA members at famsco we have a reason to have some one responsable for budget
17:38:33 <aeperezt> and we can request that NA apoint someone for this task
17:39:26 <sesivany> and I think there will be one very good motivation for regions to take care of their budgets. We should base the next year's regional budgets on how much they managed to spend this year. This year, we didn't have an idea, but we will have it after this year.
17:41:13 <sesivany> anything else to this topic?
17:42:18 <sesivany> ok, let's move on.
17:42:54 <sesivany> I've got one inter-regional request here. I'd like to bring it up...
17:43:26 <aeperezt> ok
17:43:28 <sesivany> #topic Tibetan L10n funding request
17:43:50 <sesivany> it's EMEA-APAC. APAC guys are not here, but I'd like to discuss it anyway.
17:44:04 <sesivany> #link https://fedorahosted.org/emea-swag-tracking/ticket/252
17:44:31 <sesivany> the ticket has been decided by kital (CC holder) on peer review basis.
17:46:03 <sesivany> this decision making doesn't fit in our new budget-driven spending much, but I'm glad we still have it.
17:46:59 <sesivany> sometimes it's useful if a trusted person can just make a decision, quickly and with no hassle.
17:47:27 <cwickert> actually I don't think that peer reviews and budget planing conflict
17:47:38 <cwickert> but I think the peer should be involved more in planing
17:47:50 <cwickert> he/she needs an overview how much is left
17:48:15 <sesivany> cwickert: they do a bit because people who can do peer reviewing don't have to have an idea what is our budget situation, if there is any money left.
17:48:38 <sesivany> cwickert: yes, there is the $500 limit which doesn't make it a bit problem.
17:48:56 <sesivany> because the budgets can usually absorb it.
17:49:06 <nb> hi
17:49:19 <cwickert> hmm
17:49:30 <cwickert> sesivany: actually I am abit concerned about #252
17:49:33 <cwickert> about*
17:49:37 <cwickert> it's not the money
17:49:45 <cwickert> but it's a great project
17:49:56 <cwickert> it's kital's baby
17:50:08 <cwickert> he was approached by these people while he was in India
17:50:19 <sesivany> cwickert: so what's the concern?
17:50:31 <cwickert> so we are doing something great, but nobody knows about it
17:50:45 <cwickert> I know that kital asked rbergero for support
17:50:52 <cwickert> or if she was ok with it
17:51:06 <cwickert> political implications of Tibet and so on
17:51:17 <cwickert> she was busy and didn't really respond
17:51:33 <cwickert> and since that, kital is more or less in submarine mode I think
17:51:48 <cwickert> he does his stuff but he doesn't talk about it
17:52:06 <cwickert> he asks his buddy fab for help and approves his request
17:52:20 <sesivany> yeah, I didn't know about the project, but I like it.
17:52:26 <cwickert> I mean, don't get me wrong: it's a great project and we totally should support it
17:52:35 <cwickert> but we should do it in a transparent manner
17:52:47 <cwickert> and we should talk about it
17:53:04 <cwickert> for transparency and to get some nice PR out of it
17:53:18 <cwickert> I trust kital to do the right thing
17:53:29 <cwickert> however I wish he was more verbose
17:53:35 <cwickert> EOF
17:53:36 <sesivany> cwickert: I don't question approving, I just wanted to show it as an example of quick peer review request we should be ready to deal with.
17:53:48 <cwickert> sure, but the project is bigger than that
17:53:53 <cwickert> it is a long term thing
17:54:05 <cwickert> kital is going over there, too
17:54:20 <cwickert> but AFAIK he does get sponsoring from another source
17:54:38 <sesivany> cwickert: yeah, the project is, but the request came from blue sky, at least from my point of view :)
17:54:49 <cwickert> to be honest I knew about it
17:55:02 <cwickert> since kital wrote that mail
17:55:19 <cwickert> but I had no idea what was going on or that fab is going to Tibet
17:55:34 <cwickert> or India, whatever
17:55:59 <cwickert> all I am saying is that I wish it was more visible to the public
17:56:08 <sesivany> we've saved some money in EMEA, so we should have no problem to cover at least our part. I was going to ask the APAC guys to cover theirs. I think it should not be a problem either.
17:56:09 <cwickert> I don't question decision making
17:56:14 <cwickert> but I want to be updated
17:56:33 <cwickert> I'd like to be in the loop if you understand what I mean
17:57:16 <sesivany> cwickert: yes, maybe kital and fab can update at least FAmSCo and rbergeron if it can't be public.
17:57:30 <cwickert> it can be public I think
17:57:49 <cwickert> it's just that kital was disappointed by the lack of response from rbergero
17:57:59 <sesivany> cwickert: every funding should be followed by a report, if it can't be public, let's make it more private, but let's do it.
17:58:07 <cwickert> +1
17:58:15 <aeperezt> +1
17:58:38 <cwickert> #action cwickert to talk to kital about making his project more public
17:59:32 <sesivany> #action sesivany to talk to APAC treasurer about covering half of the EMEA #252 funding request
18:01:04 <cwickert> ok, any other requests?
18:01:32 <sesivany> I wanted to bring it up as an example of something new: a quite large request approved on peer-review basis, but not planned, and something that is cross-regional (EMEA-APAC). It's definitely something we should be ready for.
18:02:06 <sesivany> no, I think we're done.
18:02:27 <sesivany> aeperezt: the Brazilian mentor ticket has been solved?
18:02:34 <aeperezt> sesivany, yes
18:03:05 <sesivany> aeperezt: ok, I'll close it then.
18:03:16 <sesivany> anything else you want to discuss today?
18:04:32 <aeperezt> sesivany, no that i did
18:04:45 <sesivany> seems not, ok, thank you for coming today and meet you next week!
18:04:56 <sesivany> #endmeeting