17:01:05 <sesivany> #startmeeting FAmSCo 2013-05-20
17:01:05 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon May 20 17:01:05 2013 UTC.  The chair is sesivany. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:01:05 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:01:06 <tuanta> ping sesivany
17:01:10 <tuanta> :)
17:01:10 <sesivany> #meetingname famsco
17:01:10 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'famsco'
17:01:15 <tuanta> .fas tuanta
17:01:16 <sesivany> #topic Roll call
17:01:16 <zodbot> tuanta: tuanta 'Truong Anh Tuan' <tuanta@iwayvietnam.com>
17:01:22 <sesivany> .fas eischmann
17:01:23 <zodbot> sesivany: eischmann 'Jiri Eischmann' <eischmann@redhat.com>
17:01:45 <sesivany> #info cwickert sent his regrets for today's meeting.
17:02:42 <tuanta> ping aeperezt
17:02:45 <sesivany> aeperezt: ping
17:03:01 <aeperezt> .fas aeperezt
17:03:02 <zodbot> aeperezt: aeperezt 'Alejandro Perez' <alejandro.perez.torres@gmail.com>
17:03:47 <aeperezt> helo
17:03:59 <aeperezt> helo tuanta sesivany
17:04:10 <sesivany> just three of us so far
17:04:26 <tuanta> hello
17:06:09 <sesivany> ok, let's start...
17:06:17 <sesivany> #topic Announcements
17:06:22 <sesivany> any announcements?
17:06:33 <tuanta> nope at my side
17:06:59 <sesivany> just one thing: elections
17:07:15 <tuanta> hello cwickert
17:07:19 <sesivany> #info Fedora 20 elections have been announced.
17:07:23 <sesivany> #link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test-announce/2013-May/000684.html
17:07:31 <sesivany> cwickert: you made it after all?
17:08:31 <tuanta> yes, Elections started
17:09:09 <sesivany> no other announcements?
17:09:11 <tuanta> and cwickert has started running for FAmSCo one more term
17:09:21 <tuanta> it
17:09:40 <sesivany> tuanta: yeah, we already have 3 candidates nominated.
17:09:55 <sesivany> but we need at least 6-7 to choose from.
17:10:19 <tuanta> yes, I will elect for 4 seats this term
17:10:49 <sesivany> I encourage you to approach the experienced and active ambassadors in your regions and ask them if they want to candidate.
17:11:40 <tuanta> ok, will note this
17:11:45 <sesivany> ok, let's move to the next topic.
17:11:54 <tuanta> I see some potential candidates
17:12:06 <sesivany> #topic T-shirts for F19 contributors
17:12:07 <tuanta> yes, please
17:12:18 <sesivany> I made the order.
17:12:23 <tuanta> cool
17:12:38 <sesivany> 220 t-shirts for $952
17:13:04 <tuanta> then it's on time for F19 release party owners, right?
17:13:05 <sesivany> I can also distribute them.
17:13:24 <sesivany> but that's all from my part of the deal.
17:13:50 <tuanta> it should be a good start
17:13:51 <sesivany> I need someone to volunteer to gather mail adresses.
17:14:20 <sesivany> it's for other teams, too. Not only for ambassadors.
17:14:54 <sesivany> #info 220 t-shirts for F19 contributors has been ordered. The price is $952.
17:14:55 <tuanta> we can create a wiki page for people to input mail addresses themselves
17:15:52 <sesivany> tuanta: I don't think people would want to make their addresses public.
17:15:53 <tuanta> yes, for others teams as well. but they should define their criteria
17:16:09 <aeperezt> tuanta, if we do it that way people may think that everyone who is on the list will get one
17:16:36 <tuanta> yes, good point, sesivany. it should not be public
17:16:59 <sesivany> for ambassadors, it's easy: who organizes a party, will get one. Other teams will have to make their own criteria.
17:17:40 <sesivany> I don't think we're going to have more than 40 parties. That's not a huge number.
17:18:21 <sesivany> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F19_release_events
17:18:25 <sesivany> 11 so far
17:18:52 <tuanta> so each team should have a volunteer to list their team members who meet criteria to get one
17:19:07 <tuanta> that person would also collect the mail addresses
17:19:39 <sesivany> tuanta: right
17:20:19 <sesivany> ok, let's move on
17:20:26 <tuanta> in our Ambassadors group, I suggest we have 4 people for each region
17:20:41 <tuanta> is that better?
17:21:09 <sesivany> tuanta: to gather mail addresses?
17:21:14 <tuanta> yes
17:21:37 <tuanta> collect then give you a clean list
17:21:53 <sesivany> I think it's even too many, 1 would be enough. I will be like 10-15 parties in each region max.
17:23:25 <tuanta> that person can know almost event owners in his/her region
17:23:35 <tuanta> it's easier for him to collect information
17:24:34 <sesivany> ok, let's figure out details later.
17:24:46 <tuanta> ok, next please
17:24:59 <sesivany> I think for us it will be easy, other team will have more difficulties.
17:25:15 <sesivany> #topic Quarterly Budget Meeting
17:26:20 <sesivany> I'd like to call a meeting of all regional treasurers
17:26:39 <sesivany> to coordinate our budget
17:26:48 <tuanta> when?
17:27:10 <sesivany> the first FAmSCo meeting after the end of the quarter.
17:27:18 <sesivany> this time, it means June 3rd.
17:27:23 <tuanta> ok
17:27:55 <sesivany> I'll be here for EMEA.
17:27:56 <tuanta> budget wiki page should be up-to-date by that time?
17:28:06 <sesivany> tuanta: yes please.
17:28:19 <sesivany> I already invited inode0 for NA.
17:28:21 <tuanta> ok, I will be here for APAC
17:28:34 <sesivany> aeperezt should represent LATAM.
17:28:34 <tuanta> +1
17:28:41 <aeperezt> sesivany, +1
17:28:53 <tuanta> and all other FAmSCo members
17:28:55 <sesivany> and I'm going to invite rsuehle who takes care of Fedora budget in OSAS.
17:29:12 <tuanta> that's good
17:29:47 <tuanta> should we invite CC holders as well?
17:30:05 <sesivany> #info Quarterly Heads-Up Budget meeting will be on June 3rd.
17:30:15 <sesivany> tuanta: yes, that's a good idea.
17:30:19 <aeperezt> tuanta, think it could be a good idea
17:30:52 <tuanta> #info CC holders should be invited to the Budget meeting
17:31:05 <sesivany> #info people to invite for the meeting: FAmSCo members, Ruth Suehle, regional treasurers, CC holders.
17:31:19 <tuanta> sesivany, you will also take care of all invitations?
17:31:34 <sesivany> tuanta: yes
17:31:38 <tuanta> good
17:31:46 <sesivany> #action sesivany to invite people to the meeting
17:32:14 <tuanta> I would be out of my home city at that time. However, I think, I can still attend the meeting normally
17:32:40 <sesivany> tuanta: what about bckurera?
17:32:51 <sesivany> tuanta: the current meeting time doesnt suit him?
17:33:06 <sesivany> tuanta: I haven't seen him much at meetings recently.
17:33:20 <tuanta> we send invitations to FAmSCo list and I believe that he can receive it
17:34:17 <tuanta> the meetings start at the midnight here, and 10:30PM at his location
17:34:39 <tuanta> I think time zone is not the big issue with him
17:34:47 <sesivany> tuanta: is he in Sri Lanka or Singapur?
17:35:17 <tuanta> I think he is in Sri Lanka right now, but I am not sure 100%
17:35:53 <tuanta> he attended the last APAC meeting
17:36:15 <sesivany> ok, do you have any other topics to discuss today?
17:36:28 <sesivany> we're just three, so I don't want to open anything bigger.
17:37:36 <tuanta> if there is no more topic, we can move to OpenFloor
17:37:54 <aeperezt> sesivany, what about sergio blog post
17:38:03 <sesivany> aeperezt: ah, yes.
17:38:17 <sesivany> #topic Segio's Blog post
17:38:33 <sesivany> #link http://blog.sergiodj.net/post/2013-05-16-so-long-ambassadors/
17:39:05 <sesivany> I think the whole situation is a bit unfortunate.
17:39:50 <sesivany> I mean I understand his point of view, but his solution: just leaving the project is a bit unfortunate.
17:40:14 <aeperezt> sesivany, yes I think we should stay to help change things as he was doing
17:41:05 <aeperezt> sesivany, the issue with the Fedora Brazil community is that there are too many people as ambassadors
17:41:46 <aeperezt> right now 45, some of them left the community  long time ago and still listed as ambassadors but they don't do anything
17:41:47 <sesivany> general advise is to attach a goal or task to every request. Do you want swag or media? Tell us events where you're going to use them. Do you want a travel budget to an event? Ok, I'll be helping at the booth, prepare this or that, deliver a talk.
17:42:26 <tuanta> +1 sesivany
17:42:44 <aeperezt> sesivany, that is what we were doing it we force the requester to go to the latam meeting an support his request
17:43:31 <aeperezt> before, we basically did not know the Brazil ambassadors except the ones who go to Fudcons
17:43:49 <sesivany> aeperezt: are those ambassadors still part of Fedora Project? because if they dont log in to FAS for some time, they get unlisted.
17:44:24 <tuanta> sesivany: are you sure?
17:44:41 <aeperezt> sesivany, that is the thing you keep an ambassador status because you login from time to time on FAS
17:44:48 <aeperezt> ?
17:45:05 <sesivany> aeperezt: yeah, that's a good policy, but really I'd always but requests the way that they're not rewards, they are support to enable you to do the job for Fedora. So there should always be the job involved.
17:46:15 <aeperezt> sesivany, that is the way things were treated, if the show and event we they go they will get swags
17:46:19 <sesivany> the inactive ambassadors discussion is on for a long time. We have never made a consensus to make a critera base on which we could remove them from the list.
17:46:48 <sesivany> in other teams, it's easier, you can look at commits, but for ambassadors? Very difficult.
17:47:02 <tuanta> yes
17:47:32 <sesivany> 45 ambassadors for one country is really a lot.
17:47:49 <tuanta> yes
17:47:59 <tuanta> too many
17:48:30 <tuanta> maybe Brazil is too big
17:48:35 <aeperezt> sesivany, the really active ones are the new ones and a few others, at least that I can see on list and on events
17:48:43 <aeperezt> Brazil is big
17:48:49 <aeperezt> that is right
17:48:53 <sesivany> maybe making the mentoring process a bit harder?
17:49:45 <sesivany> I don't know the success rate in LATAM, but most ambassador candidates fails to become ambassadors in EMEA.
17:49:47 <aeperezt> sesivany, the issue is not with new ambassadors but with old that keep the status but don't do anything we need new people that can take charge like Sergio did
17:50:05 <aeperezt> but we need a way that old people lets new ones led
17:51:01 <aeperezt> there is a new group that is starting to be an events and all that
17:51:05 <sesivany> aeperezt: yeah, but maybe if we have the mentorship a bit harder, then we wouldn't allow in ambassadors that take it easy and last only for a couple of months.
17:52:40 <aeperezt> but having old ambassadors on a meeting saying I'm going to this event so I want 5 polo shirts because the event last 5 days that does motivate the wrong actitude on new ones
17:52:42 <sesivany> btw in EMEA, we started so called "peer program". When a candidate finishes the mentorship and become ambassadors, they get a peer (one of current ambassadors) who help them settle in the project.
17:53:16 <tuanta> should we raise a new rule to force each ambassador to do (at least) an activity per quarter or similar?
17:53:24 <sesivany> make sure they attend at least one bigger event to meet other contributors, help them set some agenda for the first year etc.
17:53:38 <aeperezt> of cource we just ignore those request.
17:53:52 <aeperezt> well that is part of what fisl was all about
17:54:19 <sesivany> tuanta: no, I don't think pushing anyone to doing activities is a good way to go.
17:54:25 <aeperezt> many recent ambassadors will meet with working ambassadors
17:54:53 <tuanta> yes, I think so too, sesivany
17:55:24 <sesivany> I think the peer review is a very good idea because ambassadors are usually left in the air after the mentorship and if anyone helps them in the first year, they're more likely stay active.
17:55:34 <aeperezt> the question is how do avoid this to happend again
17:55:35 <sesivany> peer program, sorry
17:55:49 <aeperezt> sesivany, that sounds like a great plan
17:56:17 <tuanta> peer review could be a good point, sesivany
17:56:37 <tuanta> we may try in APAC next times too
17:56:37 <sesivany> aeperezt: I don't think there are any easy steps to avoid such situations.
17:57:11 <sesivany> aeperezt: accommodating as many requests as possible if you have enough resources is generally a good thing.
17:57:54 <sesivany> so it's mainly about long-term policies, working on keeping ambassadors active, guide them, help them set some agenda.
17:59:10 <sesivany> another thing I push in EMEA is that a requirement in mentorship is to attend at least one regional meeting before he/she becomes an ambassador. They can see how it works, introduce themselves to others etc.
17:59:43 <aeperezt> sesivany, that is a good idea, something that is not happening on latam
18:00:16 <sesivany> pretty much all ambassadors I have mentored remained active because I tried to pull them in the project as much as possible and make sure they have some agenda/tasks for the first year.
18:00:48 <aeperezt> sesivany, maybe we need to review the way mentoring is done in latam
18:01:18 <sesivany> and I definitely prefer quality to quantity.
18:01:35 <sesivany> because why to accept so many ambassadors if they become inactive very soon?
18:01:46 <sesivany> and then it's dificult to get rid of them.
18:02:22 <sesivany> frankly my success rate in mentorship is about 30 percent :)
18:02:34 <aeperezt> sesivany, that part is the issue there are people that only want the status of been Ambassador
18:02:39 <sesivany> but as I said those people usually remain active.
18:03:03 <aeperezt> sesivany,  but what is active login once a month on fas
18:03:36 <aeperezt> sesivany, I think we need to figured that out
18:03:51 <sesivany> aeperezt: yes, I have got such candidates, too. They say: I'm a Ubuntu LoCo member, Debian Advocate,...whatever and I also want to be a Fedora Ambassadors.
18:04:04 <aeperezt> we are looking a one case and probably there are many more
18:04:07 <sesivany> they take it like another achievement :)
18:04:18 <tuanta> lol
18:04:49 <tuanta> I am a bit sleepy today :)
18:04:58 <sesivany> so I usually make it sound like a very hard job, I want commitment. And I don't usually never heard back from them again :)
18:05:58 <sesivany> ok, this is a long discussion. I think it's something we should discuss much more at some special meeting, for example at Flock.
18:06:07 <sesivany> btw guys, are you coming to Flock?
18:06:37 <aeperezt> will try
18:06:42 <tuanta> I want to, and I submitted a talk
18:06:45 <tuanta> lets see
18:07:02 <sesivany> ok, it's definitely a topic to discuss there.
18:07:26 <tuanta> yes
18:07:38 <sesivany> for now, I suggest you consider some changes in mentoring and trying the peer program.
18:07:57 <tuanta> I hope, at least, we can have 4 of 7 FAmSCo members there
18:08:06 <tuanta> yes, peer program is good
18:08:27 <tuanta> actually, mentoring is almost dead in APAC
18:08:27 <sesivany> I don't even know if I'll be a FAmSCo member at the time of Flock :)
18:08:56 <sesivany> ok, anything else to discuss? It's getting late for tuanta, I guess.
18:09:10 <tuanta> it's enough today for me
18:09:33 <tuanta> if you have some more topics, I may see the logs later
18:09:54 <tuanta> it's over 1:00AM here right now
18:10:02 <sesivany> I need to run away, too.
18:10:14 <tuanta> ok, lets end today
18:10:15 <sesivany> ok, thank you for coming today and see you next week!
18:10:21 <sesivany> #endmeeting