19:01:58 <suehle> #startmeeting
19:01:58 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Apr 18 19:01:58 2013 UTC.  The chair is suehle. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:01:58 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
19:02:06 <dan408> hi
19:02:10 <suehle> #meeting name Planning the new Fedora event, aka Flock
19:02:17 <suehle> #chair spot rbergeron
19:02:17 <zodbot> Current chairs: rbergeron spot suehle
19:02:22 <spot> #meetingname flock
19:02:22 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'flock'
19:02:25 <suehle> I'm going to give a rundown of the major questions, and then we're going to talk about things one step at a time with less random screaming, cool?
19:02:33 <spot> #topic Planning the new Fedora event, aka Flock
19:02:39 <dan408> sure
19:02:57 <adamw> i'm just lurking here, but could someone post references for this stuff?
19:03:09 <adamw> the board meeting discussion was fascinating in a car-crash way, but impossible to follow.
19:03:09 <jwb> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/fudcon-planning/2013-April/004420.html
19:03:11 <adamw> thanks
19:03:12 <spot> if you really just want to rant or flame, my inbox is open. Go nuts. If you need to scream at me in person, my cell phone number is easy to find.
19:03:39 <dan408> i had my tantrum yesterday
19:03:50 <dan408> so ill just sit back and watch
19:04:00 <suehle> WHY THOSE DATES: Fedora 19 is scheduled now for release July 2. July is a bad time for a conference for a multitude of reasons, starting with whether it's even possible to pull off that fast. There's also the July 4 holiday in the US, which many people stretch into week-long vacations, raising the prices of hotels and travel for the week before and after, followed by OSCON later in the month, which is a large event we expect many people, includin
19:04:00 <suehle> g prospective sponsors to be occupied with. August starts with GUADEC, which will draw many of our Gnome and EMEA contributors. Which puts us at the intended dates of August 9-13.
19:04:12 <suehle> Did all that wrap through?
19:04:21 <Sparks> spot: I really am not looking to flame anyone or anything.  It's just a gut response to something being not as open as one would expect.
19:04:21 <dan408> yes.
19:04:22 <jwb> yes
19:04:27 <suehle> BUDGET: We have a budget of 70k tied to Q2 (which in Red Hat speak is June-July-August). That sounds like a lot until you start considering a longer event and bringing people from across an ocean, and suddenly it's not that much at all.
19:04:38 <suehle> LOCATION: We had suggestions from a few people, including people in this room for San Jose, DC, Rochester, Atlanta, and probably at least one other I'm forgetting. Charleston was halfway to a bid last year and very excited about hosting a FUDCon, but frankly I didn't realize how not-complete planning you needed to have for a FUDCon bid and didn't submit it. Because it's between orientation and school starting, they've asked for a few more days to
19:04:38 <suehle> absolutely ensure they can offer us the space.
19:04:45 <suehle> Several of you have in the last 24 hours have said, "But I can totally get you a space!" which I've also heard a few times before that, and they've fallen through, which is where we are now. So if in the same time frame as waiting for Charleston to lock in (like I'm guessing Monday), you can lock in FREE space for those dates in a place that isn't ridiculously expensive (i.e., most large cities), please say so.
19:04:49 * gholms gives suehle some #info tags
19:05:23 <dan408> !
19:05:29 <suehle> Go ahead.
19:05:41 <dan408> I heard we wanted to move away from colleges/educational institutions?
19:05:50 <dan408> Can you please provide what type of venue would be ideal?
19:05:52 <jreznik> suehle: for budget, Q2 is quite bad as because of Summit; just a note... I'd have a lot difficulties to get one if even, my boss already told me that... same probably for other teams
19:05:54 <dan408> EOF
19:06:09 <spot> #info BUDGET: We have a budget of 70k tied to Q2 (which in Red Hat speak is June-July-August). That sounds like a lot until you start considering a longer event and bringing people from across an ocean, and suddenly it's not that much at all.
19:06:24 <spot> #info LOCATION: We had suggestions from a few people, including people in this room for San Jose, DC, Rochester, Atlanta, and probably at least one other I'm forgetting. Charleston was halfway to a bid last year and very excited about hosting a FUDCon, but frankly I didn't realize how not-complete planning you needed to have for a FUDCon bid and didn't submit it. Because it's between orientation and school starting, they've asked for a few more planning
19:06:24 <spot> days.
19:06:31 <suehle> What we would have is the College of Charleston, which yes, is still a college. But we need the same sort of space--a room to hold everyone and smaller breakout rooms. The "free" part given the small budget is the important part.
19:06:58 <tatica> !
19:07:02 <dan408> Would a convention center work? Or a hotel with lots of conference rooms?
19:07:04 <suehle> tatica?
19:07:11 <tatica> 3 questions
19:07:20 <tatica> DATES: have you think in doing it at least a couple of months later? probably september or october are a bit cheaper due holydays.
19:07:26 <tatica> BUDGET: This event will be open only to NA and EMEA people (since this are the 2 fudcons that won't happen this year) or be more widely.
19:07:28 <suehle> dan408, if you can show me a hotel with free space where we don't have to guarantee a whole lot of room nights, I'll give you a cookie.
19:07:31 <tatica> INFORMATION: Is this website gonna be out anytime soon? that way I guess people, having a bit more of public info, could calm down.
19:07:35 <tatica> eof
19:08:00 <suehle> I think rbergeron explained the date rationale over in the other meeting... I'll try to scroll back and copy it for those who weren't in the board meeting just now.
19:08:11 <tatica> suehle, thank you
19:08:19 <dan408> suehle: ack. But I was also thinking about the San Jose convention Center. Regarding sponsors, I'm sure that would be pretty easy to get.
19:08:21 <suehle> It is intended to replace the NA and EMEA FUDCons while LATAM and APAC can have their own.
19:08:41 <suehle> dan408, for free? Coffee for conferences there is charged at $6-8/cup. Seriously.
19:08:47 <jsmith> !
19:08:49 <adamw> dan408: convention centers are obviously ideal for...conventions...but generally extremely expensive.
19:08:54 <suehle> And while we do intend to get sponsors, I'm not booking a space based on that hope.
19:08:59 <suehle> jsmith?
19:09:01 <spot> tatica: that said, we would absolutely be interested in having people from LATAM and APAC present. We're not discriminating.
19:09:09 <jwb> sept is outside of Q2 budget, plus you would be conflicting with CloudOpen, LinuxCon NA, and LCP depending on the week
19:09:19 <dan408> adamw: it's San Jose, the city is dying for conventions because everything is in San Francisco.
19:09:32 <Sparks> !
19:09:39 <suehle> Sparks?
19:09:46 <suehle> (You guys are being so orderly. I dig it.)
19:09:47 <jsmith> I was just going to say -- I've done a lot of conferences -- convention centers and hotels are *very* expensive venues.  Do you have an idea of what amount of money you're looking for from sponsors?
19:10:01 <dan408> +1 jsmith
19:10:12 <spot> jsmith: we have a very very rough prospectus based on what other conferences of the same size, scope, and type have done.
19:10:16 <Sparks> suehle: How many people are you budgetting for (covering rooms) and how much of the $70k are you "reserving" for food, rooms, etc.
19:10:17 <jsmith> suehle: Also, have you though about co-locating with some other event to reduce costs?
19:10:20 <suehle> jsmith, I'll take every dollar sponsors will give us and make it better than what we can without. But we're used to running events on half a shoestring and can make it happen.
19:10:27 <jsmith> spot: Willing to share that?
19:10:33 <spot> jsmith: absolutely.
19:10:52 <spot> we were hoping to get it in a pretty PDF first, but i dont mind putting the details somewhere
19:11:07 <suehle> Sparks, Without anything else to base it on, I'm hoping for the same ~140 we usually hope for at a FUDCon with an eye on growth next year.
19:11:08 <jsmith> As I said on the mailing list, I like to sponsor Fedora events -- and will do what I can to try to sponsor, but it's very short notice, especially after budgets have already been set for the year :-/
19:11:20 <suehle> I think it's harder this year given the time frame and having already had a FUDCon in the calendar year.
19:11:35 <dan408> suehle: so 70 we have + 70 from sponsors might cover it?
19:11:43 <suehle> jsmith, the effort is very much appreciated, but of course, we also know what it's like when budgets won't budge. :)
19:11:50 <suehle> dan408, you got a sponsor with 70k?
19:11:56 <spot> We are trying to reserve as much money as possible for attendees.
19:12:02 <jsmith> dan408: I doubt you're going to get sponsors to cover that much, realistically
19:12:03 <spot> thats the main priority.
19:12:05 <dan408> suehle: maybe.
19:12:13 <spot> which is why we really can't consider paying for a venue.
19:12:22 <dan408> im trying to understand what the requirements are here first
19:12:27 <suehle> Really, no matter how much money we have, the more we dump into getting people there, the better, which has always been true of FUDCon. So every dollar we pay for space is a dollar less for a Fedoran to come.
19:12:54 <jreznik> fyi & planning - ticket from europe is at least 1000 euro to charleston, any idea of shared bus ride from some bigger (and probably cheaper location?)
19:13:10 <suehle> jreznik, certainly something we could look into if people were interested
19:13:12 <dan408> okay
19:13:15 <dan408> so requirements
19:13:16 <gnokii> jreznik 600 from prg, wait for june to book
19:13:18 <suehle> Charleston isn't the biggest airport, but it is an international airport
19:13:38 <dan408> a place that's really big with lots of conferences rooms, preferrably a huge auditorium
19:13:39 <Sparks> suehle: With one flight to Bermuda a week?  :)
19:13:39 <j_dulaney> jreznik:  RDU may be an option
19:13:41 <suehle> And I think those who would like to tack on sightseeing will be much happier than those who thought they'd go sightseeing in Kansas. :)
19:13:45 <j_dulaney> RDU + Raleigh
19:13:48 <dan408> 140k minimum budget to cover the venue + travel + misc
19:13:55 <suehle> Sparks, Cruise ships even! You can get super cheap ones out of CHS.
19:13:59 <dan408> please let me know if i misunderstand
19:14:07 <Sparks> suehle: True dat.
19:14:15 <suehle> dan408, the minimum budget is 70k because that's what we have.
19:14:39 <jwb> !
19:14:53 <suehle> jwb?
19:15:29 <jwb> is this budget tied to RHT Q2, or can it shift out to Q3/Q4?  i think some people might not understand the concept of "if you don't spend this within this timeframe, you don't get this money"
19:15:35 <dan408> suehle: so you just said 70k would be ideal if we moved from a college and to a convention center?
19:15:48 <spot> jwb: The budget is tied to RHT Q2. Cannot shift out.
19:15:58 <jwb> right, just wanted that to be stated clearly
19:16:04 <jwb> because that eliminates later dates
19:16:26 <suehle> dan408, a million dollars is *ideal*. 70k is what we KNOW we have. We're trying to make the maximum experience for whatever money we are able to spend.
19:16:29 * suehle notes that we're 15 minutes in, and I would very much like to discuss how we might change from the barcamp system, which I imagine is going to take some time.
19:16:43 * jsmith has lots of opinions on that :-p
19:16:50 <dan408> suehle: ack
19:17:02 <jwb> dan408, i believe suehle is saying that and additional 70K isn't really going to guarantee a change in venue
19:17:11 <jwb> it might, but it might not
19:17:14 <suehle> Here's my proposal, which may differ from spot's or rbergeron's, but I think it's the middle-of-the-road compromise.
19:17:59 <spot> #topic Conference Format
19:18:04 <suehle> We spend the bulk of our time on a schedule, which is compiled by accepting talk submissions like every other conference BUT having them voted on by the community using the existing range voting system Fedora has, which makes it more like barcamp-planned-in-advance. Then we have either a half day or day of either barcamp talks (maybe half hour instead of hour?) or lightning talks.
19:18:07 <dan408> im just trying to understand how much money i would need to make this happen in san jose.
19:18:16 <suehle> Followed by surveys of attendees to find out what works best to repeat or change for next year.
19:18:37 <suehle> dan408, free space guaranteed before Monday.
19:18:52 <suehle> Not a check for X thousand dollars. Space.
19:18:54 <inode0> give each of 150 talk submissions a number between 0 and 150?
19:19:35 <suehle> inode0, I was thinking more like 0 and 9. :) So not *precisely* like we use for other things. But like I mentioned on-list, this is a system SXSW uses to much success.
19:19:40 <dan408> suehle: i'll work on it this weekend and let you know whether I have anything or not
19:19:55 <misc> suehle: well, having to rate 150 talk is gonna be a challenge
19:20:01 <tatica> !
19:20:03 <jreznik> suehle: before speaking about conference format - what kind of event we would like to see? more conference style with non contributors coming or more contributors productivness event? as the format really depends on audience
19:20:05 <suehle> They also leave the option to accept talks that the staff finds especially interesting or relevant that maybe didn't get as many votes.
19:20:13 <spot> misc: i'm hopeful that we get that many.
19:20:31 <suehle> misc, SXSW actually has something like 6,000!
19:20:44 <suehle> Obviously in that case, everyone doesn't rate every single talk. They search for ones most relevant.
19:20:59 <suehle> jreznik, spot has a stronger opinion about that, so I'll let him offer it.
19:21:01 <tatica> more than think on a number I guess that if you really want a general change on how the event works, should think more on "how can I make the people gathering here, create and make something useful (as giving results) by the end of the event"
19:21:39 <ryanlerch> suehle, would having a bar-camp type concept of proposing and voting for talks, but do that process 2-3 weeks before work? That way it provides people to choose what they want to see, as well as time to create proper schedules and prepare presentations better?
19:21:40 <dan408> suehle: i would have attended every talk at fudcon if i could have, in that vein, the only thing I would have changed about lawrence was having all the sessions recorded and posted in an archive somewhere.
19:22:00 <spot> Okay, a few thoughts from me on this.
19:22:26 <spot> We've had a lot of feedback that we have too many talks in a bar camp scenario, that people can't hear all they want to hear.
19:22:47 <jwb> ryanlerch, 2-3 weeks is short notice for a presenter for getting flights booked, etc
19:22:51 <spot> We also have had feedback that people dont want to come to a conference when they dont know if it will be interesting for them.
19:23:00 <suehle> +1 jwb
19:23:04 <spot> I looked at how DebConf, OpenSuse conf, and UDS worked.
19:23:10 <spot> they _all_ have scheduled talks
19:23:22 <spot> DebConf has extra days for hacking/sprints
19:23:24 <ryanlerch> jwb, thats more than a barcamp proper... they have 5 mins to book their flights
19:23:39 <jwb> ryanlerch, yes, more.  not really more enough ;)
19:23:44 * jsmith likes a combination of scheduled talks and barcamp sessions
19:23:50 <spot> OpenSUSE has no more than 3 talks in one session
19:23:51 <jreznik> spot: it applies, if you want to be conference - that's why I ask, not sure it applies to contributors who wants to make things done
19:23:56 <tatica> spot, what if talks are scheduled by topic? that way, people interested in design or $nameit could attend all things that matters to him
19:24:01 <gnokii> spot openSUSEConf doesnt work at all, telling that as former organizer of it
19:24:19 <jreznik> jsmith: it's a good compromise I'd say but didn't work quite well in Zurich (but for different reasons)
19:24:20 <spot> tatica: sure, we want to do that too. the submission form has categories for that reason
19:24:34 <jsmith> jreznik: But it did work well for FUDCon Venezuela
19:24:35 <tatica> LGM had talks all morning, workshops from 2-7 and talks from 8-11
19:24:35 <spot> here is the app in progress
19:24:41 <tatica> people was really happy
19:24:44 <spot> Do not bother submitting things now, this is test data
19:24:48 <spot> flock-lmacken.rhcloud.com
19:25:14 <spot> (this is not the "flock" website, just the app to track registration and talk submission
19:25:22 <jreznik> gnokii: openSUSE conf was mess in Prague too as it was joint conference of 4 or even 5 conferences and so it was just conference but not a very productive one from what I heard
19:25:23 <tatica> Problem is not usually the amount, but the fact that similar *interesting* things collide
19:25:43 <spot> tatica: yes, we wanted to avoid category overlap
19:26:01 <ryanlerch> jwb, i chose 2-3 weeks because people that know they are attending can get a talk approved and have more than 5 minutes to prepare, and organiser also have 5 minutes to prepare and organise talks to minimose clashes between tracks
19:26:05 <spot> schedule layout is a massive pain whether it is bar camp or not. :)
19:26:30 <jreznik> people who come for conference were unhappy because it wasn't only about talks, people who came to contribute were unhappy on the other hand - so I'd really like to see target audience set
19:26:37 <suehle> Which also makes the point that we get back nearly half a day by planning a schedule in advance.
19:26:39 <dan408> well I was in the ARM hackfest and got bored and left, it did not seem very productive IMHO. I think there should be tracks kind of like how "use cases" were discussed for fedora itself. i.e. a beginner's track, an intermediate track, and an expert track. I guess I would be borderline past beginner at this point and a lot of stuff i didnt understand and then i also learned a lot at
19:26:40 <dan408> the same time.
19:26:43 <jwb> ryanlerch, yes, if they know they're attending.  it doesn't address the problem of getting people interested in attending
19:27:02 <spot> jreznik: on that topic, i do not think that Flock is a user conference. At least not this year.
19:27:10 <spot> It is a contributor conference.
19:27:20 <j_dulaney> !
19:27:23 <tatica> then less talks and more meetings/hacklabs/workshops
19:27:25 <spot> We won't turn users away, but we're not crafting it for them.
19:27:27 <dan408> so instead of FUDcon it'd be FDcon?
19:27:29 <dan408> :P
19:27:39 <jreznik> spot: ok
19:27:40 <suehle> Truth be told, it's always been FDCon. When was the last time a casual user walked by?
19:27:45 <jreznik> tatica: +1
19:27:49 <ryanlerch> jwb, understood. :) was just trying to strike a happy median betweeen both formats :)
19:27:58 <jreznik> suehle: indeed
19:28:00 <jsmith> suehle: Maybe not in NA, but certainly in APAC and LATAM and EMEA we've had end users show up
19:28:10 <tatica> then just leave the barcamp just to show what's new or what people need help with, and not for general purposes
19:28:11 <jsmith> suehle: Especially in LATAM and APAC
19:28:19 <dan408> suehle: well that's why i proposed tracks. I would say I am a beginner to intermediate level
19:28:22 <jreznik> jsmith: not in EMEA and in EMEA we often miss even developers...
19:28:25 <suehle> jsmith, this isn't that audience though. LATAM and APAC have very different events, which they're continuing to have.
19:28:33 <suehle> dan408, I think tracks are a good idea.
19:28:45 <dan408> so all the experts like spot, pbrobinson, rdieter, etc could meet and get things done at an expert level
19:28:48 <abadger1999> suehle: I've seen lots of potential users... but not so many "I am a long-time-user"s (at FUDCon NA -- agree with jsmith about LATAM)
19:29:02 <dan408> instead of having to explain things over and over again before even getting any progress done
19:29:42 * j_dulaney goes to FUDCon to Get Things Done, not really to hear talks
19:29:47 * spot is not opposed to scheduling meetings and sprints as part of the main event.
19:29:55 <tatica> j_dulaney, +1
19:30:10 <spot> But it is worth noting that this is different from how most developer focused events run.
19:30:16 <spot> PyCon, for example.
19:30:28 <dan408> j_dulaney: well, since it was my first fudcon i went to meet people and hear talks, and getting anything done would have been icing for me.
19:32:01 <tatica> I guess it's pretty clear that we should have less talks and more meetings/hacklabs/workshops (again)
19:32:20 <spot> tatica: i don't agree with that entirely.
19:32:34 <inode0> I think that would depend some on long term goals for the event
19:32:39 <spot> another complaint has been that there are 10 people hacking in a room and not interacting with anyone else.
19:32:41 <tatica> not avoiding talks, but trying to have more occasions to do
19:32:51 <spot> that's valuable, but we need more than just that.
19:32:52 <tatica> spot, +1 true also
19:33:02 <jsmith> The longer format of the conference lends itself to more "do" than just talk, right?
19:33:02 <spot> so striking a balance is important.
19:33:05 <adamw> spot: that's sometimes the only way *to* get anything done.
19:33:15 <spot> adamw: i know, it just needs to be in moderation.
19:33:18 <jwb> fwiw, LPC has microconferences.  you submit them similar to a talk/track and then they approve them
19:33:19 <tatica> brb 10min
19:33:39 <ryanlerch> tatica, i did like the balance of LGM, of having a mix of workshops and talks during all days...
19:33:49 <spot> I think we could easily have people submit 2 hour hacking/sprint space requests along with talks.
19:33:52 <jwb> so e.g. Fedora ARM microconference could be a thing in place of a bunch of ARM talks
19:33:53 <ryanlerch> not just a day of talks, and a day of workshops...
19:33:59 <tatica> ryanlerch, ack
19:34:11 <jreznik> spot: well, if there's a group that wants to meet and work, it doesn't make sense to force them to listen to talks - on the other hand - doing it in opposite way - try to solve something and then - in the end, present it - it would be cool and that's something I missed on FUDCons
19:34:15 <tatica> ryanlerch, but there were no colliding things, which was super useful
19:34:15 <spot> and still have extra optional time at the end if people wanted to nail it down.
19:34:19 <tatica> brb now :/
19:34:28 <dan408> After attending Lawrence, I was surprised I wasn't charged admission. Has that been thought of for raising funds? Also, maybe non contributors could make donations, etc. Because if it was promoted well and hosted in Silicon Valley I'm sure a lot of non fedorans would show up too.
19:35:22 <jsmith> dan408: Fedora has no mechanism for taking in money
19:35:26 <suehle> Yes, we have considered a small registration fee, partly because it makes people more likely to show up.
19:35:32 <jsmith> dan408: I can explain why offline
19:35:35 <spot> jsmith: thats not entirely true anymore.
19:35:36 <suehle> AND I spent copious amounts of time in meetings with Finance people to change that.
19:35:38 <dan408> jsmith: i know why.
19:35:44 <adamw> we may have some trouble with the hashtag. "Twitter UK shows off #Flock, a cuckoo clock powered by tweets" :P
19:35:48 <jsmith> spot: Oh?  Ping me with details offline, please :-)
19:35:53 <jreznik> spot: I'd really like to see that optional time in the end to happen, that would be cool... that you don't come home and then you realize what people agreed there reading emails month later
19:36:00 <gnokii> !
19:36:06 <suehle> So we SHOULD now be able to accept registration money as well as general sponsorship donations rather than making sponsors pay for X item, really smoothing out that process.
19:36:16 <spot> Okay, here is my rough scheduling idea:
19:36:16 <dan408> im just saying, let's say I'm google developer Y or sysadmin C, I might actually pay some money to attend a FUDcon
19:36:49 <spot> Talks in the morning, sprints/workshops after lunch.
19:36:56 <spot> two days at the end for open hacking
19:37:12 <spot> talks and sprints/workshops submitted to the app
19:37:18 <spot> we'll schedule it in advance.
19:37:28 <spot> (except for the open days at the end)
19:37:32 <spot> and one little bonus idea
19:37:37 <spot> DebConf has a "social day"
19:37:42 <spot> I _love_ that idea
19:37:51 <spot> they take a day off in the middle to go do something fun together.
19:38:11 <spot> We spend too much time yelling, we need to have more fun. :)
19:38:19 <gnokii> +1
19:38:24 <ryanlerch> like a bouncy castle?
19:38:30 <ryanlerch> that would be fun
19:38:55 <suehle> ryanlerch, we were thinking about suggesting a city-wide scavenger hunt, so you get a little competition and sightseeing in there too
19:39:02 <spot> So Day 1 has a keynote, then talks (45 min (maybe an hour?) slot), then lunch, then workshops/sprints/hacking (2hr slots)
19:39:04 <jwb> i was thinking paintball
19:39:13 <dan408> thanks for listening guys, I'll see if I can get anything to you buy Monday, suehle, success or failure.
19:39:21 <suehle> jwb, I'd shoot you with paint. :)
19:39:35 <spot> Day 2 has talks, lunch, sprints
19:39:36 <jwb> i know, right?!  who doesn't want to shoot the kernel maintainers with paint?
19:39:38 <j_dulaney> Charleston has CSS H. L. Hunley, first sub to ever sink a ship
19:39:40 <spot> Day 3: Social
19:39:45 <spot> Day 4 talks lunch sprints
19:39:47 <jreznik> spot: akademy has a group trip - sightseeing, saunas etc. - but I missed it everytime :(
19:39:51 <spot> Day 5 talks lunch sprints
19:39:56 <spot> Day 6-7 optional hack days
19:40:02 <j_dulaney> +1 paint ball:  Everyone against kernel maintainers and adamw
19:40:12 <ryanlerch> having social in the middle is a great idea, spot
19:40:19 <ryanlerch> not at the beginning or end
19:40:24 * spot stole it from debconf :)
19:40:25 <jreznik> ryanlerch: yep, I agree
19:41:05 <spot> what do people think about that format?
19:41:12 <suehle> (This is also a side effect bonus of the Charleston option--since I lived there for years, it's still close by, and I either know the options for such things or can easily scope them out.)
19:41:30 <inode0> I am only concerned that 7 work days off is not workable for most people.
19:41:35 <dan408> spot: i think 7 days is a little long for people that have day jobs
19:41:46 <spot> inode0: okay, thats a valid point.
19:41:50 <inode0> Most of the new format suggestions I at least think are worth trying.
19:41:53 <suehle> I can see that, but I can also see people picking a few days they think are most effective for them to join in and attending those.
19:41:55 <spot> inode0: the idea is that two of those days would be weekend
19:41:58 <jreznik> inode0: that two are optional...
19:42:14 <jwb> spot, travel on both ends is weekday
19:42:20 <jwb> if you're attending for the whole thing
19:42:25 <inode0> But the optional ones are really the work ones and with travel on the ends it ends up being 7 work days.
19:42:25 <spot> jwb: thats true.
19:42:34 <spot> we can shift the dates a tiny amount, not hugely
19:43:06 <suehle> I think we can also make 4 and 5 fall Sat/Sun so the optional are Mon/Tues
19:43:07 <spot> inode0: we'd have 2 hour hacking windows each day, and I think we could have open rooms for impromptu stuff
19:43:18 <inode0> yeah, that change helps
19:43:27 <jreznik> I really like how akademy schedules days - and it's true that last two days, there are not many people indeed (I've never been) - http://akademy2013.kde.org/program (skip Akademy es part)
19:43:31 * spot is fine with that too
19:44:08 <jreznik> (this year it looks a little bit different, usually mondays are spent for kde e.v., desktop summit was similar)
19:44:13 <spot> so that would be day 1 on Wednesday
19:44:52 <spot> Just noting that we'd be directly conflicting with GUADEC if we did that.
19:45:02 <spot> The other dates were close to GUADEC, but not overlapping
19:45:10 <spot> and we were hoping to avoid that if possible.
19:45:36 <spot> I do know that a lot of people who go to GUADEC also have meetings in Brno afterwards, or take European vacations.
19:45:48 <spot> so we may not get GUADEC folks even if we don't overlap.
19:46:41 <spot> We do want to video stream (and record) all talks.
19:46:49 <spot> So there will be that option for attending remotely.
19:47:04 <spot> The idea is that each talk will have a volunteer on IRC taking questions.
19:47:20 <spot> They'll also be running the timer so that there is a question time
19:47:30 * spot wonders if he is talking to himself
19:47:37 <j_dulaney> For streaming:  Better than laptop mic!  If you look at vids from FUDCon NA, half of what is said can't be heard
19:48:09 <spot> j_dulaney: yep. microphones aren't super expensive.
19:48:30 <spot> suehle: we should check with CoC to see if the rooms are wired for sound
19:48:34 <jcollie> LCA does a good job at capturing video...
19:48:36 <j_dulaney> spot:  I have some very good ones I can volunteer
19:48:53 <spot> j_dulaney: that would be helpful.
19:48:54 <suehle> spot, can do
19:49:06 <j_dulaney> spot:  I have several Sure 58Bs and sure 57s
19:49:16 <spot> That brings me to another topic
19:49:20 <spot> #topic Volunteers
19:49:26 <suehle> SCALE does video well too. I had planned to get in touch to find out if the video company, which always sponsors, does it as their sponsorship or what.
19:49:44 <dan408> depending on location/length count me in
19:49:44 <spot> We will Definitely need volunteers to put this together. People to video, gopher, setup, tear down, you name it.
19:49:58 <spot> At registration time, we will be asking people if they want to volunteer.
19:50:08 <j_dulaney> spot:  I'm closer than suehle in that regaurd
19:50:18 <tatica> back
19:50:42 * j_dulaney finds it odd that living in Fayettenam actually has an advantage
19:51:03 <spot> j_dulaney: its less "who is closer" and more "who is already talking to the college"
19:51:08 <Sparks> j_dulaney: Gotta be the only advantage.  :)
19:51:38 <spot> Okay, i think thats all i can think of that we wanted to talk about today
19:51:41 <spot> #topic Open Floor
19:52:01 <j_dulaney> Sparks:  LOL
19:52:33 <tatica> just a hint (might be old talk now) paying for a conference like this might be a no, but you can raise funds selling stuff.
19:52:37 <spot> From here on out, all planning will happen either in this meeting or on the mailing list we setup.
19:52:46 <spot> tatica: good point. we're looking into that too.
19:52:58 * gnokii will start a pledgie ;)
19:53:09 <Sparks> tatica: Like those big foam fingers?
19:53:14 <tatica> lol
19:53:15 <inode0> Are we booking this slot on a regular basis now?
19:53:38 <suehle> We can find a more convenient time if people don't like it. I did this for urgency's sake to get it out there.
19:53:42 <spot> #info Mailing list - https://lists.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/flockinfo
19:53:52 <spot> I will send the minutes there.
19:53:53 <tatica> no idea, but either books, tshirt, bags, probably other goodies can make a good fundraise, and why not, maybe a kickstarted or pledgie where our raspberry pi people can make "something"
19:54:02 <suehle> Ack, wait! I thought that was going to be the list we could put on the website for updates for people who were interested in the conference, not for planning?
19:54:13 <suehle> spot ^^ ?
19:54:17 <spot> umm, we can make a planning list if you want that separate.
19:54:25 <spot> lists are free. :)
19:54:32 <suehle> that would be lovely
19:54:39 <spot> okay, let me poke nirik.
19:54:40 <Suresht> spot; Will APAC country ppls get this chance?
19:54:53 <spot> Suresht: to attend in person?
19:55:02 * nirik can make whatever lists you need.
19:55:06 <Suresht> yes
19:55:13 <spot> nirik: flock-planning pls.
19:55:15 <suehle> nirik is a total rock star this week. And probably always. :)
19:55:28 <spot> Suresht: we really hope so.
19:55:29 <dan408> adamw: compared to me? definitely not! :P
19:55:37 * nirik makes it so.
19:55:41 <spot> Suresht: preference will be given to accepted talks
19:55:48 <spot> aside from that, budget permitting
19:56:00 <spot> we want 95% of the money to go to bringing contributors to this event.
19:56:11 <Suresht> spot; thanks :)
19:56:11 <spot> The other 5% is Scotch.
19:56:28 <j_dulaney> +1 Scotch
19:56:46 <spot> Please be patient with us, this is new, we do not have a lot of time, and we need your help.
19:57:15 <jwb> sounds like Fedora in general
19:57:18 <tatica> spot, start asking for help then
19:57:19 <tatica> :)
19:57:29 <tatica> cause so far, this is the first head up you guys have made
19:57:33 <spot> tatica: we will be, very very shortly. as soon as we nail down the venue.
19:57:40 <tatica> good
19:57:53 <tatica> we are all here to help, but if we know nothing, we can't do much
19:58:00 <spot> tatica: completely understood. :)
19:58:20 <spot> You now know everything we do (aside from budget minutiae)
19:58:49 * suehle doesn't know the minutiae. Where do I get on that list? :)
19:58:56 <spot> suehle: GET OUT OF MY BRAIN
19:59:24 <tatica> probably some of us could start polishing some drafts and styling them (i remember you mention that before) while you sort out other things
19:59:43 <tatica> I'm sure there are items that can be solved or people could start helping
19:59:59 <tatica> if there is a way where you (we?) can put out a todo list, would be awesome
20:00:17 <suehle> We will. There's just not much to do list without a solid location. Everything hinges on that.
20:00:18 <spot> sure, we'll get on that.
20:00:42 <tatica> got it
20:01:20 <suehle> one minute over, so let's call it
20:01:22 <suehle> #endmeeting