20:08:51 <cwickert> #startmeeting
20:08:51 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Mar  7 20:08:51 2011 UTC.  The chair is cwickert. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:08:51 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
20:09:04 <cwickert> #meetingname Spins SIG meeting
20:09:04 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'spins_sig_meeting'
20:09:09 <brunowolff> I added the Spins SiG entry into the list for Fedora Meetings.
20:09:31 <cwickert> #chair nirik brunowolff rdieter_work
20:09:31 <zodbot> Current chairs: brunowolff cwickert nirik rdieter_work
20:09:47 * nirik is sorta around, but very busy with dayjob today.
20:10:37 <cwickert> uhh, doodle is offline, anybody knows who is missing?
20:12:17 <cwickert> let's just wait 5 more minutes.
20:12:28 <rdieter_work> hi
20:13:13 <cwickert> .fas reznek
20:13:13 <zodbot> cwickert: 'reznek' Not Found!
20:13:37 <cwickert> .fas reznik
20:13:38 <zodbot> cwickert: jreznik 'Jaroslav Reznik' <jreznik@redhat.com>
20:14:05 <cwickert> has anybody seen jreznik?
20:14:44 <rdieter_work> a few hours ago, yes, but seems he's not around now
20:16:22 <cwickert> ok, I guess we should just start
20:16:27 <cwickert> #topic role call
20:16:33 <gholms> *role*?
20:16:45 * brunowolff is here.
20:16:45 <cwickert> gholms: ?
20:16:53 * cwickert is here too
20:17:20 <gholms> cwickert: I can't tell if that was a misspelling or something completely different.
20:17:23 * gholms shrugs
20:17:32 * nirik here, but busy, ping me if I can help with anything.
20:17:56 <nirik> oh, and I do have one item for open floor/whatever: non spins ks files.
20:18:15 <cwickert> gholms: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roll_call
20:18:29 <gholms> Yeah, that's roll with two 'l's.
20:18:35 <cwickert> ouch
20:18:43 <gholms> Just checking.  Sorry.
20:18:47 * cwickert is not a native speaker
20:18:55 <gholms> No worries  :)
20:19:00 <rdieter_work> here
20:19:49 <cwickert> ok, nirik had something for open floor, anybody with more suggestions?
20:20:00 <cwickert> we'll certainly discuss the spins process and the governance
20:20:19 <brunowolff> The spins list for F15 for which we are going to make ISOs.
20:21:01 * gholms is here for the cloud SIG, if that matters
20:21:34 <brunowolff> Robotics and design suite also had interest.
20:21:59 <brunowolff> I am not sure what the status of some of the previous spins is. Notably AOS and Meego.
20:22:08 * jankratochvil is here for http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Biarch_Spin
20:23:04 <cwickert> brunowolff: ok, so what is the process for determining the list of spins? just start from http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Spins_Fedora_14 ?
20:23:53 <rdieter_work> sounds like a good start, plus those who've chimed in here.
20:24:15 <rdieter_work> BrOffice.org Spin is eol, afaik.
20:24:16 <brunowolff> We are late, but not entirely the fault of people as the process was suspended.
20:24:37 <cwickert> brunowolff: did we reset the spins to ready_for_wrangler in the previous releases?
20:25:00 <brunowolff> The broffice people told us they didn't need a spin for F15+ with libreoffice replacing openoffice.
20:25:06 <brunowolff> So that one is out.
20:25:30 <brunowolff> AOS almost was dropped for F14, and hasn't seemed to get attention, so it is probably out.
20:25:44 <cwickert> #info: no BrOffice.org spin for F15
20:26:23 <brunowolff> The wrangler is supposed to do a brief check for continuing spins.
20:26:34 <cwickert> based on what?
20:26:56 <brunowolff> The design suite spin has been broken for a while, partly because it doesn't include one of the valid bases.
20:27:22 <cwickert> hold on please
20:27:37 <cwickert> seems like we are already confused at this point
20:27:38 <brunowolff> For continuing spins, no major changes that would force reevalutaion and making sure web page was up to date.
20:28:07 <cwickert> I mean, if we assume things like "valid bases", I wonder if this is documented
20:28:10 <brunowolff> Several existing spins seem to be toying with 1GB builds instead of CD builds and we should try to figure out
20:28:18 <brunowolff> which is going to be used.
20:28:18 <rdieter_work> I'd suggest each spin owner have a responsibility to contact our spin wrangler to vouche for their continued support and testing.
20:28:32 <jsmith> rdieter_work: +1
20:28:34 <rdieter_work> so we/spin-wrangler no longer have to guess at a lot of this
20:28:40 <cwickert> so it comes down to the question if we can continue with our day to day work or need to redefine some processes first
20:28:46 <brunowolff> The valid bases are documented, but exceptions have been granted.
20:29:08 <brunowolff> The mini spins were supposed to consolidate stuff, but that hasn't happened.
20:29:28 <brunowolff> Others are supposed to base of livebase or a desktop that is based on livebase.
20:29:46 <brunowolff> s/of/off/
20:30:11 <cwickert> according to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Spins_SIG_Review_Checklist we have 3 base spins:  fedora-live-base.ks  fedora-livecd-desktop.ks  fedora-livecd-kde.ks
20:30:56 <brunowolff> AOS and Meego were granted exceptions.
20:31:03 <rdieter_work> that can be ammended to be s/fedora-livecd-kde.ks/fedora-live-kde-base.ks/ now, fwiw
20:31:04 <cwickert> are these documented?
20:31:15 * rdieter_work goes to update wiki
20:31:20 <brunowolff> I am not sure.
20:31:58 <brunowolff> There was also not a process for what to do if there were too many spins.
20:32:05 <gholms> Is EC2 a spin?  It's more like AOS than a live image.
20:32:26 <cwickert> gholms: can we discuss the individual spins later?
20:32:27 <brunowolff> Probably it would just be a ks file like qa-testday.
20:32:40 <gholms> cwickert: Of course
20:33:16 <brunowolff> There is still some fallout from the mass rebuild. The games spin needs an updated ember, which I
20:33:19 <cwickert> ok, so the question is: where do we go from here? we need to get things rolling for F15, on the other hand we need to work on the processes
20:33:37 <brunowolff> am in the process of trying to become a comaintainer for, to push a fixed version.
20:34:08 <brunowolff> I think we should contact existing spin owners to make sure they want there spin in F15.
20:34:13 <cwickert> is everybody fine with using the current processes, although they might be broken and badly documented. we might need to grant more exceptions for things like the EC2 spin
20:34:18 <brunowolff> s/there/their/
20:34:39 <cwickert> #action: cwickert to contact all current spin maintainers and ask them if they want their spin for F15
20:35:06 * rdieter_work was about to ask for that slight addition to the existing process too
20:35:25 <cwickert> should I also more the spins back to "read_for_wrangler"?
20:35:26 <brunowolff> For Desktop, it's probably worth seeing which size they plan on using as well.
20:35:53 <brunowolff> Yes, they should all be changed to ready for wrangler.
20:36:27 <brunowolff> There was some other stuff that had been required when updated pages post release, but that is minor in the
20:36:36 <brunowolff> grand scheme of things.
20:36:47 <cwickert> #info all spins will be moved back to the Spins_Ready_For_Wrangler category
20:37:14 <cwickert> #action cwickert to contact the desktop folks and ask them about the size they are targeting
20:37:15 <brunowolff> We need to make an F15 release page for releng to refer to later.
20:37:35 <cwickert> can you take this over or should I?
20:37:41 <brunowolff> It should list all spins, whether they should get ISOs and if so the target size.
20:37:45 <rdieter_work> pretty sure desktop is targetting cd size (still), daily .iso's are currently way under
20:38:14 <brunowolff> I can set up the release page.
20:38:39 <cwickert> #action brunowolff to set up a release page for F15 that lists all ISOs and their target sizes
20:39:05 <brunowolff> I'll pencil in EC2 and Robotics, we can drop them later if needed.
20:39:29 <cwickert> ok, I suggest to not go through all the spins now and wait for feedback from their maintainers first
20:39:50 <cwickert> give them a week to update the wiki pages. sounds fine?
20:39:59 <brunowolff> Right, I was going to copy over the old list and adjust the status to unknown.
20:40:03 <rdieter_work> agreed
20:40:26 <cwickert> more votes?
20:40:32 <cwickert> is a week enough or not?
20:41:03 <brunowolff> We really need to get moving on this. I think a week should be fine for some level of feedback.
20:41:09 <cwickert> +1
20:41:24 <jsmith> +1 from me
20:41:34 <rdieter_work> +1 (can always revisit when/if anyone chimes in later)
20:41:54 <cwickert> #agreed spin maintainers will be given one week to rework their spins pages and we'll go through the list next week
20:42:15 <cwickert> ok, now any individual spins we want to talk about right now?
20:42:46 <gholms> Is the EC2 image a spin or is it something else?
20:42:59 <cwickert> gholms: you tell us ;)
20:43:09 <gholms> I'm not sure what the criteria are.  ;)
20:43:15 <brunowolff> I think they just wanted a place to put the ks file.
20:43:20 <nirik> right.
20:43:22 <gholms> It's not exactly installable.
20:43:23 <rdieter_work> gholms: how will it be used?
20:43:36 <nirik> rel-eng needs a place to pull from to build things... so thats why ec2 was added there.
20:43:42 <gholms> People invoke instances of the image we upload.
20:43:53 * nirik notes the install media is in spins-kickstarts as well, and it's not a spin. ;)
20:44:09 <gholms> Basically the Cloud SIG uploads a rootfs and then people boot copies of that.
20:44:11 <cwickert> nirik: lets not start this discussion again ;)
20:44:32 <cwickert> gholms: please read https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Spins_Guidelines and tell us if you think it is a spin
20:44:36 <nirik> cwickert: well, rel-eng asked me to ask the spins sig what they would prefer.
20:44:40 * cwickert thinks it isn't
20:44:42 <brunowolff> I think part of the issue is if it is going to follow spin rules.
20:44:45 * jsmith proposes that we not call it a sping for now, and revisit it later
20:44:47 <rdieter_work> ok, these other kickstarts should go somewhere else, like a subdirectory
20:45:02 <jsmith> s/spring/spin/
20:45:06 * jsmith fires his typist
20:45:11 <brunowolff> There is a custom directory that holds the qa-testday which is sort of similar.
20:45:32 <brunowolff> The QA guys find it easier to do stuff with it in the git repo.
20:45:46 <cwickert> what exactly are they doing with it?
20:45:49 <jsmith> We'd simply need to coordinate w/ rel-eng to make sure their scripts reference the location in the subdirectory
20:45:53 <brunowolff> But it meets the rules for other live images.
20:45:54 <rdieter_work> brunowolff: +1 use custom/  (unless we want to bikeshed on some other directory)
20:46:17 <cwickert> jsmith: can we have more info from rel-eng what they need and how their process works?
20:46:27 * nirik can try and explain.
20:46:29 <jsmith> cwickert: Essentially, where's what I know
20:46:39 <brunowolff> They build live images with some extra stuff installed for use with test days.
20:46:40 <jsmith> Koji can currently pull from two locations...
20:46:45 <nirik> rel-eng needs a place to pull install media and ec2 ks files from to compose them.
20:46:46 <jsmith> Either pkgs.fedoraproject.org
20:46:51 <jsmith> or the Spins git repo
20:47:26 <jsmith> Hence the reason Dennis put the EC2 kickstart in the spins repo -- it was done out of convenience
20:47:33 <nirik> if spins sig does not want non spins things in their repo, we could make a new one thats completely seperate. This seems like overkill, but if thats what needs to happen it can happen.
20:47:46 <jsmith> Putting it in a subdirectory (custom or otherwise) should work fine
20:47:49 <cwickert> hold on
20:47:55 <brunowolff> I think for now using custom makes the most sense.
20:47:56 <nirik> custom seems a misnomer to me. ;)
20:48:10 <cwickert> what I would like to have is a list of requirements from rel-eng. what do they need for us?
20:48:10 <jsmith> Yeah...
20:48:37 <jsmith> For the EC2 image, they need a place to keep the kickstart file in revision control
20:48:47 <nirik> cwickert: can we put non spins ks files in spin-kickstarts?
20:48:48 <jsmith> As far as I know, that's the only requirement
20:48:50 <gholms> Given the spins guidelines, I'm not sure EC2 counts as one.
20:48:59 <nirik> gholms: neither does the install media.
20:49:12 <gholms> Is there a category for those?
20:49:14 <jsmith> gholms: I've never thought of it as a spin, either
20:49:15 <brunowolff> Note that we use that repo to make a package, and stuff needs to be done for new entries that they didn't do.
20:49:17 <cwickert> nirik: it is not on me to decide and even if, I feel like I don't have enough info
20:49:23 <rdieter_work> nirik: when you say "install media" , what do you mean exactly?
20:49:31 <nirik> the dvd media... Fedora DVD.
20:49:35 <rdieter_work> ok
20:49:37 <nirik> fedora-install-fedora.ks
20:49:42 <brunowolff> Some of the other ks files might not have the appropriate stuff in the makefile either.
20:49:44 <nirik> the thing rel-eng uses to compose the DVD. ;)
20:50:05 <rdieter_work> didn't realize these kickstarts were used for that, I thought it was just comps
20:50:10 <cwickert> I start to get confused now... can we please discuss one thing at a time?!
20:51:16 <cwickert> we are to decide where to put the EC2 spin but we don't even know if it's a spin and I don't feel we have enough information about it
20:51:33 <gholms> I can answer questions about it.
20:51:47 <nirik> basically rel-eng needs a place in revision control to host the fedora-install-fedora.ks and the ec2.ks. spins-kickstarts was a handy place to store there. If it causes pain or confusion they could be moved somewhere else (a new package I guess).
20:51:52 <brunowolff> I think starting with it in custom for now and discussing its future later is the way to proceed.
20:51:52 <rdieter_work> it's not really a spin in the classic sense, but using spin-kickstarts to host it... would be convenient
20:52:31 <cwickert> brunowolff: we are not going to add it to custom for now until it has finished th spins process
20:53:06 * nirik tries to think of a way to better explain.
20:53:18 <cwickert> gholms: ok, please tell us what the reason for this spin is. is it supposed to be hosted/downloaded? will it be composed by rel-eng?
20:53:59 <cwickert> gholms: can you start the spins process by setting up a wiki page with all that information?
20:54:33 <jsmith> cwickert: Yes, it's going to be composed by rel-eng.
20:54:46 <nirik> cwickert: so, in you mind spins-kickstarts only contains spins, right?
20:54:51 <gholms> It's composed by rel-eng and uploaded, but never downloaded.
20:55:01 <gholms> People start it up and run it entirely within "the cloud".
20:55:03 * nirik doesn't think ec2 is a spin.
20:55:15 <cwickert> nirik: I didn't say that, I said I need information to decide it
20:55:28 <brunowolff> We have a number of spins for which we don't produce ISOs. (Most locale variants.)
20:55:30 <cwickert> gholms: uploaded to where?
20:55:31 * jsmith has to run for another meeting
20:55:34 <gholms> cwickert: Amazon
20:55:39 <nirik> ok, what info? Will try and provide.
20:55:40 <cwickert> jsmith: can you make rel-eng give us some documentation on how their composal works and a list of requirements?
20:56:04 <cwickert> gholms: and is running as a guest or a host?
20:56:07 <gholms> A guest
20:56:10 <gholms> After people start up a Fedora instance they can treat it like a regular VM.
20:56:11 <nirik> cwickert: it pulls from a git repo and runs compose tools... pungi or koji's appliance creator.
20:56:20 <cwickert> ok, so it's just a basic fedora install?
20:56:30 <gholms> Yeah.  It's just @core.
20:56:38 <cwickert> nirik: what is "it"?
20:57:12 <cwickert> gholms: so what is so cloudy about it? just a minimal install?
20:57:23 <nirik> cwickert: I don't know if there is a script for the dvd, or just a release manager ( dgilmore) that pulls from git. For the ec2 image, koji itself pulls from git.
20:57:23 <rdieter_work> "it" = the compose process (I assume)
20:57:50 <cwickert> nirik: it would be nice for us to know
20:58:12 <gholms> People say "I want five copies of a system that looks like this", where "this" refers to the image that rel-eng uploads to Amazon.
20:58:14 <nirik> ok, I can ask Dennis... but not sure how much it matters. ;)
20:58:44 <gholms> An individual can later make changes to his or her copy of a running instance and bundle that as a new image that is bootable the same way.
20:58:55 <gholms> (instance := VM)
20:59:26 <cwickert> if the only reason for having the EC2 image in spin-kiststarts.git is that rel-eng needs a place to pull from, then I don't think it's a spin
21:00:04 <cwickert> this being said I don't know if it should be in git at all
21:00:22 <gholms> Can koji pull its kickstart from anywhere else?
21:00:24 <nirik> it has to be in git somewhere.
21:00:31 <nirik> gholms: I don't think so.
21:01:11 * nirik doesn't think it's a spin either, but personally thinks having it in spin-kickstarts is easy and handy.
21:01:26 <nirik> perhaps a non-spins/ dir would work, dunno
21:01:28 <cwickert> nirik: but this means it will be in the package
21:01:39 <gholms> Is that a problem?
21:01:41 <nirik> yeah.
21:01:43 <brunowolff> And it ends up in the spin-kickstarts package.
21:01:52 * rdieter_work doesn't think it's a problem
21:02:02 <brunowolff> I think ending up in the package is a good thing.
21:02:03 <cwickert> gholms: does it serve a purpose in the spin-kickstarts package?
21:02:23 <gholms> cwickert: That's where the kickstart for every other image Fedora produces lives.
21:02:29 <gholms> Including the install media.
21:02:56 <rdieter_work> maybe spin-kickstarts should simply be renamed fedora-kickstarts, and then we could stop bikeshedding about what counts what doesn't
21:03:14 * gholms likes that idea  :)
21:03:18 <brunowolff> There are different subpackages with different names.
21:03:24 * rdieter_work thinks ec2 is "close enough", by almost any definition
21:03:51 <cwickert> gholms: I am not talking about git right now but about the spin-kickstarts rpm
21:04:08 <nirik> rdieter_work: +1 (although it's a hassle to rename everything it would make more sense long term)
21:05:36 <cwickert> gholms: so does it make sense for people to have the kickstart? can they create something from it and upload it to amazon?
21:05:56 <gholms> Yes they can.
21:06:04 <cwickert> ok, then it does make sense
21:06:15 <brunowolff> The names are fedora-kickstarts, custom-kickstarts and spin-kickstarts.
21:07:05 <cwickert> gholms: in order to have your kickstart in the repo, can you please start the normal spins process?
21:07:29 * gholms looks for a link to this process
21:07:43 <cwickert> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Spins_Process
21:07:58 <gholms> Sure, I'll notify the SIG list, at the very least.
21:08:14 <cwickert> just mark it Spin_ready_for_wrangler
21:08:20 <cwickert> then I'll see it
21:08:37 <gholms> Just keep in mind that most of the spins guidelines don't make sense w.r.t. that image.
21:08:55 <cwickert> we can still discuss this once we have a talk page
21:08:58 * gholms nods
21:09:45 <cwickert> ok, proposal: the EC2 spin might not be a spin, but should be uploaded to custom. this requires it goes to the normal spins process, at least to the parts applicable
21:09:57 <rdieter_work> +1
21:10:00 <cwickert> s/to/through
21:10:12 <cwickert> +1 (obviously)
21:10:37 <brunowolff> The srpm list part was added after the last set of spins and there is a timing issue here. This is supposed to
21:11:01 <brunowolff> correspond to the release and doing it before then may result in an inaccurate list.
21:11:21 <brunowolff> So you should be able to wait on that.
21:11:27 <cwickert> the srpm list part can be done after approval, we just need it be the time of the final composal
21:11:47 <cwickert> ok, any more votes in the form of +1 or -1?
21:12:12 <brunowolff> +1
21:12:32 <cwickert> gholms: what about you?
21:12:58 * gholms rereads scrollback
21:13:35 <gholms> That's a good start.  I'll send a message to the cloud sig list and cc the spins list so we can at least get some input.
21:13:53 <cwickert> ok, I take this as +1
21:13:57 <gholms> +1
21:14:06 <cwickert> #agreed The EC2 spin will be included in custom-kickstarts once it has gone through the normal spins process, at least trough the parts applicable
21:14:31 <cwickert> any more spins we'd like to discuss?
21:14:48 <brunowolff> I think biarch was mentioned.
21:15:25 <cwickert> jankratochvil: ping
21:15:30 <jankratochvil> pong
21:16:04 <jankratochvil> It is not so much a spin as a build shell script.
21:16:18 <cwickert> yeah, it will have to live in rel-engs git
21:16:36 <brunowolff> I think the script is in livecd-tools.
21:16:48 <cwickert> whatever is used to create an official spin needs to he in rel-engs git
21:17:00 <brunowolff> Were you looking to have a biarch ISO produced for the release?
21:17:15 <cwickert> jankratochvil: is it?
21:17:18 * nirik notes releng git only has some scripts currently.
21:17:36 <jankratochvil> The script is not in livecd-tools, there is mkbiarch which does not work / has different goals.
21:17:37 <cwickert> nirik: official requiement from the board/from spot
21:17:59 <nirik> oh, you are talking about the script to make a bi-arch media? yeah... ok.
21:18:13 * nirik is behind on the discussion, don't mind me.
21:18:13 * jankratochvil does not understand the goals of the livecd-tools mkbiarch script but that may be offtopic here.
21:18:36 <jankratochvil> It is questionable whether to do anything with the associated spin there.
21:19:15 <jankratochvil> It was made so that one can more fill-up the next flash disk size - 2GB (instead of some 1.6GB of two LiveCDs).  But flash disks nowadays are usually larger than 2GB anyway
21:19:20 <cwickert> I'm sorry, so this is not a spin but a tool?
21:19:30 <jankratochvil> so it does not matter much if it takes 1.6GB, 2GB or 3GB on some 8GB media.
21:19:51 <jankratochvil> Yes, it is primarily a tool.  http://people.redhat.com/jkratoch/f15-live.sh
21:20:04 <jankratochvil> And a spin: http://people.redhat.com/jkratoch/f15-live.ks
21:20:10 <rdieter_work> starting to sound only peripherally related to spins, it's a different way to make live images.  right?
21:20:19 <jankratochvil> But we can talk first about the tool=script.
21:20:23 <jankratochvil> Yes.
21:20:36 <brunowolff> If you aren't expecting Fedora to publish an iso for this, than I think you just want the tool added to livecd-tools.
21:20:43 <jankratochvil> It will create flash disk image from two .iso files.  It cannot create an .iso file.
21:20:45 <cwickert> are you aware of https://fedorahosted.org/multiboot-media-creator/ and the fact that spot has rewritten it in python?
21:21:07 <cwickert> I'm afraid we have three different tools for the same job now
21:21:27 <cwickert> I think all interested parties should join and produce one
21:21:35 <jankratochvil> I am not aware of https://fedorahosted.org/multiboot-media-creator/ , so far I was aware only of the livecd-tools mkbiarch.
21:21:46 <rdieter_work> or at least talk and collaborate
21:21:52 <cwickert> +1
21:21:54 <jankratochvil> OK, thanks for the info, I will investigate https://fedorahosted.org/multiboot-media-creator/ , I think this is all for the Biarch Spin for now.
21:21:58 <cwickert> +1 to brunowolff
21:22:38 <cwickert> jankratochvil: there also is http://spot.fedorapeople.org/multiboot-media-creator.py
21:22:47 <cwickert> but it's not yet finished I think
21:22:47 <jankratochvil> Although it would miss F15 when the build tool is now being investigated/reworked/changed, wouldn't it?
21:23:08 <cwickert> I think we should treat this as two different questions
21:23:16 <cwickert> one is the tool, the other is the spin
21:23:33 <cwickert> once we have the tool, we can make biarch versions of everything
21:24:35 <jankratochvil> As neither of the multiboot-media-creator is using ifcpu64.c32 it has the same problem like the livecd-tools mkbiarch script.
21:24:53 <jankratochvil> That is - it does not boot x86_64 by default, if the CPU is x86_64 capable.
21:25:14 <jankratochvil> Yes, I would prefer to talk only about the tool (at least first).
21:25:32 <cwickert> nice feature, but I think we should try to implement this for all the scripts out there
21:25:59 <cwickert> #action jankratochvil to investigate other scripts to handle biarch and get in contact with their creators. cwickert will help if necessary
21:26:27 <cwickert> jankratochvil: anything more from your side for now? I'll take a look at your ks this week then
21:27:04 <jankratochvil> There exist now 4 scripts mostly the same, I do not mind which one to choose, just only the one by me is using ifcpu64.c32, if someone wants to use different script I can port ifcpu64.c32 there.
21:27:49 <cwickert> great
21:27:58 <cwickert> ok, next spin?
21:28:29 <jankratochvil> ok, thanks.
21:28:33 <cwickert> welcome
21:29:01 <brunowolff> For Robotics, I'd like to see them asked, liked the recurring owners if they want an ISO for F15.
21:29:12 <cwickert> brunowolff: I will do this
21:29:22 <brunowolff> I don't think any of their people made it to the meeting.
21:29:38 <cwickert> I'll invite them to the next one
21:30:03 <cwickert> if there are no more I'd like us to think about the spins process and governance a bit
21:30:04 <brunowolff> I think the rest of the spins can be covered after we get replies from the owners.
21:30:25 <cwickert> +1, let's revisit individual spins next week
21:30:45 <cwickert> but given that fact that we are already late I think we should skip this part of the discussion
21:31:03 <cwickert> I'll try to rework the wiki pages a bit to make things clearer
21:31:41 <brunowolff> There are also some tickets for other documentation I wanted to write, but didn't get time to.
21:31:42 <cwickert> if people have proposals on how to make the spins process more effective, please write them down and send them to the spins list
21:31:52 <cwickert> brunowolff: tickets?
21:32:03 <brunowolff> Yes, we have a trac instance.
21:32:16 <brunowolff> I gave you admin access if you want to play with it.
21:32:21 <cwickert> yeah, please do
21:32:41 <brunowolff> kanarip used it a lot, I was starting to when participation dropped off.
21:32:52 <cwickert> given that we have a track instance, perhaps we should handle the spins process in trac?
21:33:10 <cwickert> I mean, we still can have wiki pages, but the approval itself becomes a ticket
21:33:20 <brunowolff> You already have access. I thought of that a few weeks ago and did it.
21:33:32 <cwickert> I think this is better than changing categories all the time
21:33:35 <cwickert> thanks brunowolff
21:33:57 <brunowolff> I couldn't give you access to the spin-kickstarts package, you need to ask someone else for that.
21:34:08 <cwickert> I do have access already
21:34:29 <cwickert> I have access to the repo and I'm proven packager, anything else I need?
21:34:41 <brunowolff> Not that I was able to think of.
21:34:44 <cwickert> ok
21:35:16 <cwickert> I think this is enough for this week, anything for open floor?
21:35:28 <cwickert> nirik: what about your non-spin ks files?
21:35:51 <nirik> cwickert: that was the ec2/whatever stuff we already discussed. ;)
21:36:08 <cwickert> ok, I guess we need general guidelines for that kind of stuff
21:36:17 <cwickert> or guidelines for granting exceptions
21:36:27 <cwickert> #topic open floor
21:36:29 <nirik> yeah, or just a way to indicate what is spins and what is not in spins-kickstarts or something.
21:37:14 <cwickert> we can work around by renaming to fedora-kickstarts as rdieter_work suggested
21:37:15 <brunowolff> I think the main distinction we care about is which get ISOs and which are FYI.
21:37:22 <cwickert> +1
21:37:42 <rdieter_work> I have one item to mention that may affect other spins.  similar to the libXcursor thing, seems to be no dependancy for the default gtk2/gtk3 theme as well.  but, that most other spins are largely gtk-based, may not be affected.
21:38:27 <rdieter_work> the symptom for the kde spin is that anaconda runs, and looks very ugly
21:38:43 <cwickert> rdieter_work: this is indeed a problem in the other spins
21:38:53 <rdieter_work> :(
21:38:57 <cwickert> in Xfce we are currently discussing which theme to use
21:39:10 <cwickert> because there is none that is available for both gtk2 and 3
21:39:16 <rdieter_work> ok, I'll mention something on -spins list when/if I know more
21:39:25 <cwickert> well, there is elementary
21:39:42 <rdieter_work> and adwaita
21:39:43 <cwickert> I think Matthiasn wants to do Nodoka for GTK3
21:40:02 <cwickert> rdieter_work: nope, adwaita has no GTK2 part
21:40:05 <brunowolff> I like Echo. It's more cheerful.
21:40:17 <cwickert> at least none that looks similar to GTK3
21:40:31 <cwickert> echo? I need to take a look at it
21:40:57 <brunowolff> It is clear looks with alternate Icons.
21:41:07 <rdieter_work> https://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=232110 has a adwaita-gtk2-theme subpkg, but don't know how-well/if it works
21:41:16 <cwickert> rdieter_work: it doesn't
21:42:22 <cwickert> #action: remind spin maintainers of the open question of GTK themes. Try to find a theme that works both for GTK2 and GTK3
21:42:33 <cwickert> ok, anything more for open floor?
21:42:46 <f155-KDEsugarVM> soas spin?
21:43:09 <gholms> Nice
21:43:24 * satellit_ it can e started
21:43:29 <cwickert> hmm, who was that?
21:43:31 <satellit_> s/be
21:43:46 <satellit_> but soas spin  in nighlys does not work
21:44:44 <satellit_> sorry for the intrusion...
21:45:20 <brunowolff> I think brokenness is a future topic after we know which ones we need to worry about.
21:45:22 <cwickert> do we have any SOAS people around?
21:45:31 <cwickert> +1 brunowolff
21:46:53 <cwickert> ok, I don't see any SOAS folks in the other channels, so there is not much we can do atm
21:47:13 * cwickert will close the meeting in 30 seconds
21:47:14 <satellit_> i am volunteer with sugarlabs
21:47:38 <cwickert> satellit_: tell me more please
21:48:22 <satellit_> I have been working on building VirtualBox 4.0.4 on our wiki to use with sugar.
21:48:46 <cwickert> are you member of the spin-kickstarts group?
21:49:05 <cwickert> do you know what is broken in SOAS atm?
21:49:14 <satellit_> no but I use spin-kickstarts to make remixes
21:49:51 <cwickert> I suggest you get in contact with the spin maintainers
21:50:10 <satellit_> http://wiki.sugarlabs.org/go/Sugar_Creation_Kit    and community distributions with sugar
21:50:11 <cwickert> it's mel chua, peter robinson and sebastian dziallas
21:50:37 <satellit_> yes and peter is only one atm working on it
21:50:55 <satellit_> thanks....
21:51:10 <cwickert> peter is pretty busy, perhaps you can help him?
21:51:24 <satellit_> sugar-browse is broken
21:51:24 <cwickert> do you already have a FAS account?
21:51:49 <satellit_> no unfortunatly  have helped test on fedora-qa in past
21:52:19 <satellit_> I am mainly a tester and builder of virtual appliances
21:52:33 <cwickert> satellit_: ok, I suggest you get yourself a FAS account and apply for the spin-kickstarts group
21:52:35 <brunowolff> If you have a fix you could still send it to the spins list.
21:52:57 <cwickert> satellit_: you can also get involved in packaging to fix sugar-browse
21:52:57 <satellit_> ok thanks sorry for the intrusion.....
21:53:07 <cwickert> no problem, you are welcome
21:53:12 <satellit_> I am not a programmer....
21:53:16 <cwickert> If you have any problems, just let me know
21:53:33 <satellit_> ok thanks. will try to reach pbrobinson
21:53:34 <cwickert> I'm a sponsor and can guide new fedora contributors
21:54:08 <cwickert> satellit_: ok, please contact me by mail at cwickert@fedoraproject.org, then we can work out the details
21:54:12 <satellit_> thanks. is there a link for getting to be one?
21:54:19 <cwickert> sure
21:54:22 <satellit_> ok thanks
21:54:29 <cwickert> http://fedoraproject.org/join-fedora
21:54:37 <satellit_> +1
21:55:09 <cwickert> ok, then we just finish here
21:55:16 <cwickert> thanks everybody for coming
21:55:19 <cwickert> see you next week
21:55:22 <cwickert> #endmeeting