15:00:54 <sgallagh> #startmeeting Server SIG Weekly Meeting (2015-04-07)
15:00:54 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Apr  7 15:00:54 2015 UTC.  The chair is sgallagh. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:00:54 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:00:54 <sgallagh> #chair sgallagh mizmo nirik stefw adamw simo tuanta mitr danofsatx
15:00:54 <zodbot> Current chairs: adamw danofsatx mitr mizmo nirik sgallagh simo stefw tuanta
15:00:54 <sgallagh> #topic roll call
15:01:16 <nirik> morning
15:01:21 <sgallagh> .hello sgallagh
15:01:21 <junland> .hello junland
15:01:22 <zodbot> sgallagh: sgallagh 'Stephen Gallagher' <sgallagh@redhat.com>
15:01:25 <stefw> .hello stefw
15:01:26 <zodbot> junland: junland 'John Unland' <opensourcejohn2112@gmail.com>
15:01:29 <zodbot> stefw: stefw 'Stef Walter' <stefw@redhat.com>
15:03:00 <mitr> Hell
15:03:03 <mitr> Hello
15:03:10 <mitr> (sorry)
15:03:12 <simo> .hello simo
15:03:16 <zodbot> simo: simo 'Simo Sorce' <ssorce@redhat.com>
15:03:27 <simo> mitr: a bad day today? :)
15:03:43 <mitr> Luckily just a typo
15:04:41 <sgallagh> #topic Agenda
15:04:46 <sgallagh> #info Agenda Item: F22 Beta Testing
15:04:46 <sgallagh> #info Agenda Item: F22 Talking Points
15:04:46 <sgallagh> #info Agenda Item: NTP
15:04:51 <adamw> ahoy
15:05:31 <sgallagh> Any other agenda topics?
15:05:59 <sgallagh> OK, let's get started then
15:06:03 <sgallagh> #info Agenda Item: F22 Beta Testing
15:06:06 <sgallagh> #undo
15:06:06 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: INFO by sgallagh at 15:06:03 : Agenda Item: F22 Beta Testing
15:06:12 <sgallagh> #topic F22 Beta Testing
15:06:37 <sgallagh> adamw: Any progress on the test cases for the DB role?
15:06:57 <adamw> nope. always seems to be that something else comes up first.
15:07:05 <adamw> hopefully it's not too hard to test it without instructions...
15:07:49 <jsmith> Shouldn't be :-p
15:07:50 <sgallagh> It's hard to get a sense of what specifically has to be working
15:08:11 <sgallagh> anyone want to volunteer to help turn the core and functional requirements pages into actual test plans?
15:08:11 <adamw> what's written in the criteria
15:08:20 <adamw> er, requirements. :P
15:08:31 <adamw> if no-one else volunteers i will get to it some damn time, honest
15:08:52 <sgallagh> adamw: I'm just a little concerned about "some damn time" not being before Go/No-Go ;)
15:08:53 <junland> I'll be busy with a group project for my class but I will try to leave some input...if I can...
15:09:54 <sgallagh> #info Help needed to convert Database Server Role requirements into a test plan
15:10:10 <sgallagh> OK, I'll see what I can squeeze into my schedule this afternoon.
15:10:35 <sgallagh> adamw: Is there a howto document on the proper wiki magic?
15:10:52 <adamw> sgallagh: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:SOP_test_case_creation
15:11:00 <sgallagh> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:SOP_test_case_creation
15:11:01 <sgallagh> Thanks
15:11:03 <adamw> for a basic test case little magic is required, just using the test case template (which the SOP talks about)
15:11:27 <adamw> i quite often use extra templates just to share things like setup steps that are the same between multiple test cases.
15:11:57 <mizmo> hi guys sorry i have to skip the meeting today, im onboarding a new intern
15:12:00 <sgallagh> So once those test plans exist (or at least start existing) later today, I need some volunteers to run through them and add karma.
15:12:08 <sgallagh> mizmo: No worries!
15:12:17 <adamw> oh, one thing, do make sure you stick with the convention that the name starts with "QA:Testcase"
15:12:28 * nirik nods. wiki namespace is important.
15:12:39 <adamw> nirik: also wikitcms relies on it for finding test cases.
15:12:53 <adamw> (it handles some old variants too, but QA:Testcase is the New Normal.)
15:12:56 <sgallagh> adamw: That says to me "This belongs in the SOP" :)
15:13:01 <adamw> it's in the Wikitcms SOP
15:13:13 <sgallagh> k
15:13:13 <adamw> but yeah, should probably be there too, if it isn't. i'll check
15:13:21 <adamw> ah yes, it is.
15:13:26 <sgallagh> great
15:13:46 <sgallagh> So... volunteers to run the tests if I (and others) create them?
15:14:14 <sgallagh> Related: I need to make a decision *today* on whether rolekit 0.3.1 goes to stable.
15:14:20 * adamw will try to do that also
15:14:34 <sgallagh> Because if things go *well*, we'll have a release candidate tonight
15:14:39 <adamw> we should be able to automate the db tests somehow or other, really.
15:14:55 <sgallagh> adamw: Yeah, should be relatively straightforward.
15:15:03 <sgallagh> Easily scriptable, at any rate
15:15:28 <sgallagh> s/have a release candidate tonight/will be building a release candidate tonight/
15:16:11 <sgallagh> I've tested it myself reasonably well, but given that the DB Role is kind of our Big Feature this release, I'd like to have someone else sign off on it.
15:16:31 <sgallagh> So I'm going to try to get this test plan written ASAP (I'll bump my other stuff, I guess).
15:16:49 <sgallagh> #action sgallagh to write up a Database Role test plan today
15:18:02 <adamw> thanks
15:18:04 <sgallagh> OK, I think we've beaten that particular deceased equine sufficiently
15:18:11 <adamw> i can already see the crap that's gonna eat the rest of my day.
15:18:25 <sgallagh> #info Agenda Item: F22 Talking Points
15:19:06 <sgallagh> tuanta has volunteered to gather and write these up, but we should probably offer a few suggestions.
15:19:38 <sgallagh> #info Talking Point: Database Server Role
15:19:54 <sgallagh> #info Talking Point: Default to XFS filesystem
15:20:05 <sgallagh> (most of you are chaired, so jump right in)
15:20:07 <nirik> these are short sentences/statements for a brochure or the like?
15:20:18 <sgallagh> nirik: Right now, these are just ideas.
15:20:57 <sgallagh> The talking points will be narrowed down by marketing/ambassadors (probably by tuanta in our case) and then turned into a training exercise for ambassadors.
15:20:57 <stefw> From Fedora 22, Cockpit now has a backward compatibility guarantee ... you can add Fedora Servers to the dashboard as long as they're all Fedora 22+
15:21:02 <stefw> is that worth mentioning?
15:21:07 <sgallagh> So they're not just short blurbs
15:21:13 <sgallagh> stefw: Yes, absolutely
15:21:36 <nirik> ok
15:21:49 <adamw> do we have cockpit role deployment yet?
15:21:51 <sgallagh> #info Talking Point: From Fedora 22 onwards, Cockpit will be compatible between OS releases
15:22:00 <sgallagh> adamw: No, that was deferred to F23
15:22:03 <adamw> k.
15:22:15 <sgallagh> I've probably got a GSoC student to work on it, which is great.
15:24:02 <sgallagh> I suspect we also want these to be primarily user-focused talking points. So things like pbrobinson's excellent work slimming down dependencies is probably not worth including (though it's a great addition)
15:24:28 <sgallagh> Ooh, Docker support on ARMv7hl is probably worth mentioning, yes?
15:25:52 <sgallagh> #info Talking Point: Fedora Server supports Docker containers on the armv7hl architecture
15:26:16 <sgallagh> Other high-visibility changes?
15:26:23 <nirik> worth mentioning yum->dnf? but that might be in other places already
15:26:31 <adamw> yeah, doesn't seem flavor-specific.
15:27:38 <sgallagh> Let's call it out anyway
15:27:46 <sgallagh> Worst case, it ends on the cutting-room floor
15:27:47 <nirik> ipsilon might be interesting to server folks...
15:28:06 <sgallagh> #info Talking Point: DNF as the default package manager
15:28:57 <sgallagh> #info Talking Point: Ipsilon - new multiple-protocol identity provider service
15:29:38 <simo> I hope we can land 1.0 w/o too many bugs :)
15:29:41 <simo> (of Ipsilon)
15:30:19 <sgallagh> simo: (slightly OT) Is there documentation on how to stand up Ipsilon with FreeIPA somewhere?
15:30:51 <simo> almost :)
15:31:11 * nirik is looking forward to it being deployed in infra. ;)
15:31:19 <sgallagh> /me mutters something about horseshoes
15:31:30 <sgallagh> OK, anything else on this topic?
15:32:24 <sgallagh> OK, on to NTP then
15:32:31 <sgallagh> #topic NTP
15:32:39 <simo> sgallagh: well al lyou need to do is setup with --ipa=yes iirc: )
15:33:06 <simo> sgallagh: should we open bugs to make the domain controller role configure cronyd as ntp server ?
15:33:09 <sgallagh> So, as noted on the list, I tweaked comps.xml so that TC9/RC1 should install chrony by default
15:33:19 <sgallagh> simo: I'm honestly surprised it doesn't already.
15:33:27 <adamw> what was it installing before?
15:33:30 <sgallagh> Chrony has been the default in Fedora for, what four releases now?
15:33:44 <sgallagh> adamw: Somewhere between F21 and F22, it stopped installing CHrony
15:33:47 <adamw> ah.
15:34:12 <sgallagh> I couldn't actually figure out how it got installed in F21. Seemed a lucky accident
15:34:48 <sgallagh> Might have been pulled in by an obscure dependency chain that we broke
15:34:59 <nirik> domain controller needs a ntp server ?
15:35:15 <simo> nirik: so that clients stay in sync
15:35:17 <nirik> if so, then yeah, if we can make chrony do it that seems better to me than going back to ntp.
15:35:30 <simo> it is optional
15:35:36 <simo> but we install it by default
15:35:58 * nirik nods.
15:36:34 <sgallagh> I need to test, but I think freeipa-server-install disables chrony if it's running in favor of ntp
15:36:43 <sgallagh> (I think I remember that from two or three years ago)
15:36:48 <nirik> I think this would be good to poke at after beta... ;)
15:37:13 <sgallagh> nirik: Actually, I need to verify that statement.
15:37:34 <sgallagh> Because if it *breaks* if chrony is installed, we have a problem :)
15:37:51 <simo> sgallagh: it doesn't break afaik
15:37:59 <nirik> yeah. Hope not
15:38:13 * nirik wonders again about comps gating during freeze. ;)
15:38:33 <sgallagh> Well, installing chrony on an F22 server running FreeIPA right now results in NTP being stopped and chrony started
15:38:41 <simo> oh it *did* break when chrony was first introduced in fedora, so we fixed it to turn chronyd off instead of breaking :)
15:38:58 <sgallagh> ok
15:39:17 <sgallagh> So for now, let's agree that no (further) changes will be made for Beta?
15:39:19 <simo> sgallagh: as long as chronyd serves client sit is fine if it doesn;t listen on the network though then it is bad
15:39:53 <sgallagh> simo: Can you have the FreeIPA guys look into a full chrony solution and see if it's feasible for Final? If not, we'll defer to F23.
15:40:42 <simo> not now
15:40:50 <mitr> Has mlichvar actually said that chrony is a better server than ntpd?
15:40:53 <simo> they are way too busy
15:41:21 <mitr> (It has been kind of implied, but still)
15:41:31 <simo> better how? exactly ?
15:41:59 <mitr> better overall all things considered
15:42:53 <mitr> Anyway, that’s post-F22
15:43:04 <nirik> well, fewer security issues, but younger. ;)
15:44:30 <sgallagh> #info We'll stick with chrony by default in F22, with the Server Role replacing it with NTP if deployed.
15:44:55 <simo> +1
15:45:06 <sgallagh> #info Plans for F23 include doing an analysis of the relative benefits of chrony, ntp and timesyncd and switching everything to the one that makes the most sense.
15:45:17 <nirik> sure.
15:45:31 <mitr> ack
15:45:53 <sgallagh> Anything further on this topic?
15:46:40 <junland> Nope.
15:46:51 <sgallagh> #topic Open Floor
15:46:56 <sgallagh> Anything for Open Floor?
15:48:01 * nirik has nothing to bring up
15:49:21 <sgallagh> OK, thanks for coming folks. I'll get those test plans up soon.
15:49:30 <sgallagh> #endmeeting