17:00:18 <samkottler> #startmeeting Cloud WG weekly meeting
17:00:18 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Nov 20 17:00:18 2013 UTC.  The chair is samkottler. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
17:00:18 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
17:00:38 <samkottler> #chair mattdm rbergeron number80
17:00:38 <zodbot> Current chairs: mattdm number80 rbergeron samkottler
17:00:45 <mattdm> hello!
17:00:59 <samkottler> heyya
17:01:08 <samkottler> #topic rollcall
17:01:13 * samkottler is here :)
17:01:14 <mrunge> hey
17:01:23 * mrunge is very shortly here
17:01:26 <samkottler> #chair mrunge
17:01:26 <zodbot> Current chairs: mattdm mrunge number80 rbergeron samkottler
17:01:44 * mrunge suggests a different meeting time, as this is very inconvenient for me
17:02:18 <samkottler> mrunge: that's a good thing to talk about on the list
17:02:21 <samkottler> it's hard to do over IRC
17:02:32 <mrunge> I agree samkottler
17:02:47 <mrunge> esp. since there are other person not attending the meeting as well
17:02:58 <mattdm> thanks for coming nonetheless :)
17:03:18 <samkottler> indeed :)
17:03:31 <samkottler> let's just wait a couple more minutes for people to show up
17:03:47 <mrunge> well, I need to run away very shortly. so, I'll just drop off
17:04:36 * gholms goes to sit with the peanut gallery
17:06:00 <samkottler> okay I guess we'll get started, although we don't have quorum
17:06:09 * mattdm nods
17:06:23 <samkottler> #topic Google compute
17:06:35 <mattdm> I don't know exactly why but it's been a crazy chaotic week nad I feel like zero time has passed since last meeting. *sigh*
17:06:41 <samkottler> frankie isn't here so no update on packaging work right now
17:06:57 <samkottler> mattdm: yeah, same :(
17:07:12 <mattdm> looks like there was agreement on the mailing list that we should focus on cloud-init in the images
17:07:25 <samkottler> mattdm: yeah, seems like we don't even need to vote on that
17:07:32 <mattdm> gholms What do you think about carrying that debian patch?
17:07:56 <samkottler> I was gonna kick the tires on the tools google built, but totally ran out of time
17:08:05 <gholms> I think it should go upstream for review.
17:08:17 <gholms> Then I'm totally happy to grab it.
17:08:29 <samkottler> gholms: does canonical maintain the upstream?
17:08:51 <gholms> Yes
17:08:52 <mattdm> I'll ping the google people about that.
17:09:06 <mattdm> #action mattdm to ping google about gce cloud-init patch upstream
17:09:30 <samkottler> I also reached out to legal about the trusted tester agreement
17:09:40 <samkottler> it's being reviewed right now, I should have word back today or tomorrow
17:09:53 * gholms hopes they aren't reluctant due to canonical's ridiculous contributor licensing racket
17:09:53 <samkottler> things seem promising, though
17:09:56 * samkottler knocks on wood
17:10:01 <gholms> Nice!
17:10:05 <samkottler> gholms: you mean bzr?
17:10:06 <samkottler> :P
17:10:21 <gholms> Nah, the full copyright license thing.
17:10:34 * gholms saves the rant for later
17:10:36 <samkottler> I know, twas kidding :)
17:10:44 <gholms> ;)
17:11:08 <samkottler> so yeah, that's all I've got on the GCE front
17:11:20 <samkottler> anyone got anything else to add?
17:11:22 <mattdm> (they did indicate in a mailing list post that upstream was a goal)
17:11:27 <gholms> What's the trusted tester thing?
17:11:29 <mattdm> that's aall from me for now too.
17:12:11 <samkottler> gholms: google makes people who want to upload images sign a document called the trusted tester agreement to basically give access to more advanced/not thoroughly tested parts of GCE
17:12:33 <samkottler> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/legal/2013-November/002304.html
17:12:51 <gholms> Mere mortals can't upload their own images?  How sad.  :(
17:13:32 <samkottler> gholms: I think ultimately they will be able to
17:13:40 <samkottler> the features just aren't fully rolled out
17:14:05 * gholms hopes that happens soon
17:14:17 <mattdm> gholms that's actually the state of the art in pretty much most public clouds except ec2
17:15:06 <gholms> Yup.  It's really disappointing.
17:16:00 <mattdm> Yup. Next thing, then?
17:16:35 <samkottler> #topic marketing/design document
17:17:25 <samkottler> so some background, the design + marketing teams have asked for some info about what our aims are
17:17:28 <samkottler> so they can plan accordingly
17:17:29 <samkottler> https://fedorahosted.org/cloud/ticket/3
17:17:56 <mattdm> it's a really good question :)
17:18:03 <samkottler> if we come across any issues that are contentious they'll have to wait until we have quorum, though
17:18:23 <gholms> I don't think people know the difference between a server and a cloud guest yet, so we probably don't even know ourselves.  ;)
17:18:24 <samkottler> mattdm: yeah, slightly interdependent on the PRD
17:18:43 <mattdm> definitely.
17:19:12 <samkottler> jzb just sent a really nice reply to the list
17:19:26 <mattdm> okay, so, proposal: more list discussion here.
17:19:57 <mattdm> (and by here, i mean "on this topic")
17:20:03 <samkottler> mattdm: WFM
17:20:08 <mattdm> (not "here on irc". that would make no sense)
17:20:29 <gholms> There are more people on the list.  :)
17:20:58 <samkottler> okay then
17:21:03 <samkottler> #topic open floor
17:21:24 <mattdm> I think we haven't really settled on how targetted we are going to be and how much we're going to do, say, jeos vs. some bigger solution (like coreos+docker) vs. "appliance library"
17:21:50 <samkottler> mattdm: sorry, do you want to keep the last topic going?
17:22:10 <mattdm> eh. that's basically all I have to say and I don't think we're going to decide it right now ;)
17:22:19 <samkottler> agreed
17:22:33 <samkottler> that's part of both the PRD and 'what even are we doing?!'
17:22:37 <gholms> It doesn't even seem like people agree on whether the server should be the minimal thing or the guest should.  More discussion is needed.
17:22:55 * mattdm nods
17:23:06 <mattdm> and then an actual decision.
17:23:10 <samkottler> we should probably loop in the server WG
17:23:20 <samkottler> and then have a bigger convo about all this
17:23:36 <mattdm> yeah. I actually have a bunch of mail in my inbox to reply to that relates to all of this. and on the server wg mailing list.
17:23:55 * samkottler needs to subscribe to that list
17:24:05 * gholms is still mad at openstack for overloading the term "server" even more
17:24:15 <mattdm> It's also possible that we end up doing that has a lot of overlap but in different ways. That's not as nice as everything fitting into a jigsaw puzzle but would still be okay.
17:24:37 * gholms nods
17:24:51 <samkottler> gholms: and triple-O even further blurs the lines
17:25:00 <gholms> Heh, yep
17:25:12 <samkottler> treat your servers like cloud guests and then run your cloud guests on your cloud guests
17:25:15 <samkottler> AHHH
17:25:28 * jzb apologizes for being late. Damn time zones.
17:25:33 <samkottler> #chair jzb
17:25:33 <zodbot> Current chairs: jzb mattdm mrunge number80 rbergeron samkottler
17:25:58 <gholms> Heya, jzb
17:26:07 <jzb> gholms: howdy
17:26:10 <mattdm> jzb not too much at this meeting. got anything to raise?
17:26:19 <gholms> samkottler: Eucalyptus does that, and let me tell you, it's awesome.
17:26:26 <jzb> mattdm: have we discussed the branding stuff?
17:26:39 <mattdm> jzb mostly we said "more mailing list discussion"
17:26:41 <jzb> I sent out a rough pass at the Q's mizmo asked
17:26:45 <jzb> OK
17:26:51 <mattdm> i saw but havne't read yet
17:27:07 <jzb> I'm writing up notes from re:Invent that I will share to the list later this week
17:27:22 <mattdm> she asked for that back by dec 3 so I think we should try to have something to by official for next week
17:27:30 <mattdm> "to be"
17:27:33 <gholms> #info jzb sent out a rough pass at mizmo's questions
17:27:56 <jzb> that's all I've got unless someone's got a task for me
17:28:09 <gholms> #action jzb will send re:invent notes to the list this week
17:28:51 * samkottler doesn't have any other topics
17:29:26 <mattdm> yep i think we're done for now.
17:29:40 <mattdm> f20 test candidate images are coming out....
17:29:55 <mattdm> testing them is a helpful thing to do. :)
17:29:59 <jzb> mattdm: here I was worried I wouldn't have anything to do over Thanksgiving.
17:30:10 <mattdm> jzb right :)
17:30:20 <gholms> #help Please help test f20 images
17:30:39 <samkottler> #endmeeting