20:00:25 <pwhalen> #startmeeting
20:00:25 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Oct 31 20:00:25 2012 UTC.  The chair is pwhalen. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:00:25 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
20:00:25 <pwhalen> #chair pwhalen jonmasters bconoboy ctyler pbrobinson dgilmore
20:00:25 <zodbot> Current chairs: bconoboy ctyler dgilmore jonmasters pbrobinson pwhalen
20:00:30 <pwhalen> good afternoon all
20:00:35 <pwhalen> .fas pwhalen
20:00:35 <zodbot> pwhalen: pwhalen 'Paul Whalen' <pwhalen@redhat.com>
20:00:38 <bconoboy> .fas blc@
20:00:38 <zodbot> bconoboy: blc '' <blc@redhat.com>
20:00:41 * pbrobinson is here
20:00:50 * masta waves
20:01:00 <dmarlin> .fas dmarlin
20:01:00 <zodbot> dmarlin: dmarlin 'David A. Marlin' <dmarlin@redhat.com>
20:02:27 <pwhalen> #topic 1) Fedora 18 ARM Alpha release
20:02:50 <pwhalen> #link vfad results - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures/ARM/Quality_Assurance/2012-10-26-VFAD-Fedora_18_Test_Day
20:03:53 <pwhalen> some small issues with xfce were identified during the vfad, but it generally looked very good overall
20:04:21 <masta> yes, small issues
20:04:26 <bconoboy> Images went live on dl.fp.o yesterday afternoon- how long do we wait for mirrors to sync?
20:04:54 <pbrobinson> I would announce them with a note to say that things might still be mirroring out
20:05:01 <pbrobinson> then move on :)
20:05:26 <bconoboy> +1
20:05:46 <dmarlin> is there anything pending besides being mirrored out?
20:05:47 <pwhalen> just checked a random mirror, images are up
20:05:59 <pwhalen> http://archive.eu.kernel.org/fedora-secondary/releases/test/18-Alpha/Images/armhfp/
20:06:13 <bconoboy> somebody needs to write the announcement and update the wiki
20:06:20 <pbrobinson> I think we only have a dozen or so mirrrors so it might not take long
20:06:39 <bconoboy> well, it's been 24 hours
20:06:39 <pbrobinson> so who's going to do what?
20:07:18 * bconoboy nominates pwhalen to send announcement
20:07:26 * pwhalen accepts
20:07:31 <masta> aye
20:07:33 <pbrobinson> works for me
20:07:37 <pbrobinson> and the wiki?
20:08:09 <nirik> FYI...
20:08:12 <nirik> wget --no-cache "http://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/mirrorlist?path=pub/fedora-secondary/releases/test/18-Alpha/Images/"
20:08:25 <nirik> will tell you what mirrormanager knows about up to date mirrors with that path. ;)
20:08:43 <pwhalen> #action pwhalen to send out F18 ARM Alpha release announcement
20:09:36 <bconoboy> wiki is going to take some time- need to update the main page and the per-board pages
20:09:51 <masta> we might #info what nirik said
20:09:58 <bconoboy> I can do it tomorrow afternoon but no earlier
20:09:59 <masta> seems useful
20:10:08 <pbrobinson> OK, well the main page is the important one and really needs to be done before the announcement as it's the landing page
20:10:38 <bconoboy> #info wget --no-cache "http://mirrors.fedoraproject.org/mirrorlist?path=pub/fedora-secondary/releases/test/18-Alpha/Images/" to find out what mirrormanager knows about up to date mirrors with that path, per nirik
20:10:47 <bconoboy> pwhalen: can you tackle main page?
20:11:30 <pwhalen> #action pwhalen to update main wiki page for F18 ARM Alpha Release
20:11:31 <bconoboy> probably just want a new section "Download the Latest Development Release"
20:11:33 <pwhalen> sure
20:12:14 * masta is happy to pickup a board page or two
20:12:28 <masta> divide/conquer the wiki
20:12:29 <pbrobinson> is there any reason there's not a panda minimal image in the list?
20:12:59 <masta> pbrobinson: you mean panda minus xfce ?
20:13:16 <pbrobinson> well we really only need vexpress/tegra/panda updated and let the community update the rest for alpha
20:13:16 <pwhalen> pbrobinson, in the release notes there are instructions for booting to serial or xfce. We chose one image for simplicity
20:13:20 <pbrobinson> masta: yep
20:13:29 <pbrobinson> OK
20:13:50 * pbrobinson just likes tiny minimal images :)
20:13:51 <pwhalen> does that work for everyone?
20:13:56 <dmarlin> same with vexpress
20:14:24 <bconoboy> works forme
20:14:47 <pbrobinson> OK, anything else we need to cover for alpha?
20:15:01 <dmarlin> what about the outstanding issues?
20:15:11 <bconoboy> they're to be covered in beta, ne?
20:15:20 <dmarlin> anyone looking at those, or do we need volunteers?
20:15:22 <pwhalen> we need per board pages as well. When are we targeting for release?
20:15:44 <bconoboy> as soon as main wiki is updated and announcement goes out
20:15:49 <pbrobinson> yes? to be continued to be investigated for beta so don't stop working on them because alpha is done
20:15:53 <masta> in prior meetings somebody said PA + one week
20:16:28 <pbrobinson> release for what? beta or final?
20:17:15 <masta> probably final. For beta I think we might need more time
20:17:47 <bconoboy> we should start discussing beta plans soon, but that's a separate topic
20:18:26 <masta> so for the alpha release, late today... tomorrow?
20:18:47 <bconoboy> y
20:19:11 <pbrobinson> get it out today and move on.
20:19:20 <masta> +1
20:19:24 <pwhalen> I wont have time to do the wiki until tomorrow
20:19:28 <pbrobinson> any other meeting items for alpha
20:19:56 <masta> so today we can focus on the wiki, help on the board pages... and pwhalen sends the email and does main wiki page
20:19:56 <bconoboy> pwhalen: if tomorrow's when you can do it, tomorrow is fine
20:20:26 <masta> yep, as soon as doable
20:20:35 <bconoboy> if anybody wants to work on the wiki sooner by all means do so :-)
20:20:46 <bconoboy> it's pretty F17 centric now- just need to split it out some
20:20:51 <pwhalen> #info target November 1st for Fedora 18 ARM Alpha release
20:20:51 <bconoboy> next topic?
20:21:04 <pwhalen> #topic 2) F18/19 build status - problem packages?
20:21:26 <pbrobinson> for f18/rawhide eclipse is still a problem
20:21:43 <pbrobinson> there has been some attempts at forward movement but it's still not fixed
20:22:10 <bconoboy> is the package owner responsive?
20:22:36 <pbrobinson> there is some movement on the bug and someone has been doing test builds.
20:23:07 <pbrobinson> but it's not fixed yet so it's not fast enough for me as we need it to make f-18 gold and that's starting to lock down
20:23:52 <bconoboy> I'm wondering if the anaconda issues will cause beta freeze to thaw
20:23:54 <pbrobinson> for rawhide the current biggest blocker is the kernel. I have one remaining issue I need to fix in building perf.
20:24:14 <pwhalen> #info eclipse is still a problem for f18/rawhide
20:24:16 <pbrobinson> nope, I believe they're holding hard
20:24:49 <pwhalen> any other problem packages people can assist with?
20:25:35 <pwhalen> #info rawhide blocker is kernel package
20:25:47 <pbrobinson> I wouldn't mind some help with the perf issue. It's due to the bloody uapi include changes so I think it's straight forward but I've not managed to hit it hard enough. If anyone can assist I would love some help post meeting
20:26:34 <masta> wcohen seems the logical resource, let's inform him about the situation
20:26:35 <bconoboy> perf?
20:26:40 <pbrobinson> there's some kde bitchyness but they're not major issues but kde being horrible with NVR buts
20:27:13 <pbrobinson> masta: it's not really perf specific problem but basic include stuff, I've fixed a number already in the build
20:27:30 <pbrobinson> I just can't work out which include the include is :)
20:28:21 <pwhalen> pbrobinson, do you have a link to a failure?
20:29:33 <pbrobinson> of course :) http://arm.koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/watchlogs?taskID=1230489
20:29:47 <pbrobinson> http://arm.koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/getfile?taskID=1230489&name=build.log is bettter
20:30:09 <bconoboy> #link http://arm.koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/getfile?taskID=1230489&name=build.log
20:30:15 <bconoboy> #info example of perf build problem
20:30:41 <pwhalen> thanks.
20:31:01 <pwhalen> #topic 3) Koji Hub - speed issues, moving to Phoenix prior to PA push?
20:31:06 <pbrobinson> If I can't work it out in the next hour or so I'll likely disable perf to get a build done and then re-enable it to fix it
20:31:20 <pbrobinson> can we leave this topic until dgilmore is here
20:31:54 <dmarlin> pbrobinson: can we at least address Koji Hub - speed issues
20:31:58 <pbrobinson> as there's not much point with dgilmore on a jet plane to aus
20:32:07 <pwhalen> when doing a hosts query on koji, the web interface can take up to an hour, when using command line its about 40 minutes
20:32:12 <pbrobinson> dmarlin: is anyone from seneca here?
20:32:17 <Frojoe> I am
20:32:26 <pbrobinson> is DarthJava here?
20:32:39 <pbrobinson> ctyler isn't
20:32:51 <pbrobinson> Hi FroJoe
20:32:56 <Frojoe> Hello all
20:33:03 <fossjon> hi
20:33:05 <bconoboy> I think we should consider moving koji hub to phoenix in advance of pushing toward primary.
20:33:06 <pwhalen> all other queries seen relatively speedy(ish). Apparently the db is vacuumed on a regular basis.. is there anything else that can be done?
20:33:43 <pbrobinson> bconoboy: yes, we can all agree on that here but without dgilmore here to discuss we may as well ask the brick wall for concensus
20:34:01 <fossjon> i dont even know what the issue is to be honest and its weird that primary doesnt have this issue
20:34:05 <bconoboy> pbrobinson: Okay, does anybody who is here disagree?
20:34:10 <fossjon> but no one has ever seemed to want to answer why that is
20:34:12 <masta> what are the rewards verus the risks of the koji move?
20:34:53 <pbrobinson> bconoboy: well we don't know whether it's even possible. Is there hardware available, budget to expand the enterprise storage?
20:34:55 <bconoboy> rewards: Gets put on a fedora infrastructure controlled host with more oompf, is connected via local network to primary koji hub, storage, etc.
20:34:59 <pwhalen> fossjon, right.. its odd that type would be so excessively long
20:35:05 <bconoboy> pbrobinson: There is budget
20:35:37 <Frojoe> You guys probably have better hardware in Phoenix
20:35:44 <bconoboy> That's not to say that we shouldn't track down what's happening with the current hub, but we need to start thinking about making the transition
20:35:45 * nirik looks up.
20:35:58 <pbrobinson> bconoboy: but there's no one from infra or rel-eng that can tell use the requirements and other bits so I will reiterate my point..... we need to discuss this when dgilmore is here
20:36:10 <nirik> I'm not sure there is storage right now, but there's planning for some next year.
20:36:34 <bconoboy> pbrobinson: I have specs for hub, actually...
20:36:36 <nirik> the hub itself shouldn't be a big problem, we have a virthost that could house it.
20:36:44 <nirik> unless it needs to be real hw...
20:36:56 <pbrobinson> nirik: do you know when in next year? Early in the next budget?
20:36:56 <masta> the rewards seem great, to make this happen I suppose there is a giant over the internet file-xfer form point-A to point-B that would take forever?
20:37:04 <nirik> pbrobinson: hopefully yeah.
20:37:28 <nirik> masta: depends on if there's a import of builds you guys have already done, or if there is a rebuild I guess?
20:37:39 <bconoboy> we have more budget for arm builders than we need- some of that could be repurposed for storage
20:37:58 <pbrobinson> so for a move for a secondary there's going to be a complete dupe of the storage, when we move to primary there will be a reduction because noarch/src.rpm won't be duplicated
20:38:14 * nirik reads further back up
20:38:27 <nirik> so this is just moving the secondary hub/storage before primary status?
20:38:37 <bconoboy> nirik: y
20:38:41 <pbrobinson> that's what's currently being proposes, yes
20:38:56 <nirik> ah, hum.
20:39:02 <nirik> how much space are we talking?
20:39:24 <nirik> and builders would still be all remote?
20:39:29 <pbrobinson> I would just like us to move forward and propose promotion for F-20 and be done with it
20:39:38 <pbrobinson> save moving it all twice
20:39:43 <bconoboy> nirik: builders would still be remote
20:39:48 <pbrobinson> I believe it's about 2Tb
20:40:10 <nirik> yeah, moving things twice sounds like a pain.
20:40:20 <nirik> it's doable tho I suppose...
20:40:36 <bconoboy> all-or-nothing isn't really productive
20:41:00 <bconoboy> we could move builders at the same time I guess.
20:41:17 <pbrobinson> bconoboy: what investigation has been done into the current issues with the existing hub. It was fine a month or so ago and then we ran out of storage
20:41:19 <nirik> our virthost there has 2Tish... but not much more.
20:41:20 <bconoboy> but we should really keep the primary vs not independent of the move
20:41:23 <pbrobinson> it's not been bad since
20:41:50 <bconoboy> pbrobinson: I Don't think I would characterize it as ever having been fine.  it's always slow.  it's just more so now.
20:42:26 <pbrobinson> bconoboy: yes, it's always been slow, I'm well and truly aware of that over everyone!
20:42:40 <bconoboy> FYI, we are picking up a calxeda viridis chassis in the next few weeks- we'll be testing build loads on it which should give us a measure of confidence how many we need for phx
20:42:52 <pbrobinson> bconoboy: the question is why it's suddenly a burning issue all of a sudden
20:42:56 <nirik> anyhow, if you guys want to write up needs and a plan, I'd be happy to give feedback... and of course dgilmore should have his say. ;)
20:43:11 <bconoboy> nirik: Hm, yes, that's probably the better idea
20:43:33 <bconoboy> how about I write up a hardware proposal?  then we can hash it out on the list
20:43:40 <nirik> we do have a virthost that could run a hub instance, and it has around 2.something TB of storage... so it could work if it's needed.
20:43:49 <pbrobinson> nirik: that's perfect, the lack of dgilmore was why I wanted this postponed until next week
20:44:13 * nirik doesn't want to speak for him, but happy to provide the feedback I can.
20:44:33 <pbrobinson> nirik: should this be something done in a infra ticket? Or somewhere in particular?
20:44:48 <bconoboy> #action bconoboy to write move build infra to phx proposal (in advance of primary push), discussion to follow on list
20:45:01 <nirik> you could do it there sure... or write up the plan on a list first for comment, then ticket once there is consensus.
20:45:18 <bconoboy> yeah, better to get list consensus beforehand
20:45:25 * nirik nods.
20:45:32 <pwhalen> sounds good, next topic?
20:45:53 <pwhalen> and our last on the agenda..
20:46:00 <dmarlin> is anyone going to investigate the host query performance
20:46:07 <dmarlin> ?
20:46:08 <pbrobinson> the fact is there's likely little point in list consensus because the decision comes down to infra teams and budgets
20:46:35 <pwhalen> dmarlin, I'll check with #koji and speak with dgilmore
20:46:46 <dmarlin> pwhalen: ok, thanks
20:47:00 <pwhalen> #topic 4) Kirkwood images - is anyone interested in assisting with their creation/testing?
20:47:49 <pwhalen> Is there anyone that would like to work on this?
20:48:34 <bconoboy> Or put another way: We don't currently have anybody responsible for making armv5tel images. We need a volunteer.
20:49:05 <pbrobinson> don't all rush in at once...
20:49:24 <bconoboy> Without a volunteer we'll, at best, have the f17 script-based images.
20:49:48 <dmarlin> perhaps we should post this request to the list, in case some folks are not here right now
20:49:57 <bconoboy> sounds like it
20:50:00 <pbrobinson> yes, definitely out to the list
20:50:07 <dmarlin> I'll do that
20:50:23 <bconoboy> #info Looking for volunteers for making armv5tel images
20:50:40 <bconoboy> #action dmarlin to mail list soliciting contribution
20:50:59 <pwhalen> #topic 5) Your topic here
20:51:24 <pwhalen> anyone have anything else they would like to raise?
20:51:29 <pbrobinson> seeing as we actually have some Seneca people here this week can we possibly have an update on their RPi image?
20:51:36 * jsmith joined late -- just curious about the 512 MB version of the Raspberry Pi
20:51:48 <jsmith> ctyler said they'd be pushing out new firmware next week
20:52:04 <fossjon> agreene is in class now but hes responsible for the final image push
20:52:15 <fossjon> for the rasp pi ^^^
20:52:19 <fossjon> im working on v6hl
20:52:23 <fossjon> http://japan.proximity.on.ca/koji/builds?order=-completion_time&state=1
20:52:29 <fossjon> thats how many builds i have so far ^^
20:52:38 <fossjon> but anyway we're trying/recovery
20:52:46 <pbrobinson> does agreene have a date he's targeting for the final release and announcement?
20:52:51 <pwhalen> fossjon, great work on v6
20:53:43 <pbrobinson> fossjon: as a note you should be targeting f19 for v6 really if you're not already then you'll have some hope of having a release out in reasonable time
20:53:51 <fossjon> ya we will
20:53:56 <fossjon> im just trying to build a complete base first
20:54:01 <fossjon> or a complete f17 pkg list first
20:54:12 <fossjon> then i guess bring up real builders to build the next one
20:54:57 <pbrobinson> fossjon: I wouldn't wait for a complete list
20:55:15 <pbrobinson> get most of it done and move on
20:55:27 <pbrobinson> similar to what we did with f15
20:56:14 <bconoboy> fossjon: would you ask agreene to send an update?
20:56:17 <pwhalen> fossjon, perhaps ask agreene to send mail to the list with his targeted release date if you can
20:56:38 <fossjon> ok sure
20:56:58 <pwhalen> anything else for today?
20:57:47 * jsmith has nothing further
20:57:49 <pwhalen> #endmeeting