fedora_marketing
LOGS
20:00:26 <rbergeron> #startmeeting fedora marketing
20:00:26 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Aug 10 20:00:26 2010 UTC.  The chair is rbergeron. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:00:26 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
20:00:33 * rrix stumbles in
20:00:41 * ke4qqq is sorta here
20:00:42 <rbergeron> #meetingname fedora marketing
20:00:42 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_marketing'
20:01:04 <rbergeron> no excuses, i slept for 2 hours since 8am yesterday :)
20:01:16 * rbergeron peeks around for others
20:01:40 * rrix needs to hop in the shower real quicklike, gimme ten minutes
20:01:54 <rbergeron> thanks for sharing :)
20:02:08 <rbergeron> #topic Agenda
20:02:14 <rbergeron> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_meetings#Agenda
20:02:37 <rbergeron> Sooooo - I see that everyone got started on talking points last week - thanks for that :)
20:02:40 <stickster> Yay!
20:02:51 * rbergeron notes we also need to kick off the F14 release slogan process this week.
20:02:58 <rbergeron> #topic F14 Release Slogan
20:03:06 <rbergeron> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F14_release_slogan
20:03:24 <rbergeron> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_slogan_SOP
20:03:49 <rbergeron> So - we need to do a few things wrt release slogan (which are quick, so I'm covering this before we get to talking points wrapup)
20:04:38 <rbergeron> #1: We need to add some information into http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F14_release_slogan under "Important Ideas" - themes, artwork, etc.
20:04:51 * rbergeron notes that she is realllllllly slow today, so plz forgive my slowness
20:05:25 <rbergeron> #2: We need to do the call for release slogan ideas after #1 is done.
20:05:39 <rbergeron> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_slogan_SOP#Announce_a_call_for_release_slogan_ideas
20:05:49 <rbergeron> luckily, we already have an email template for that.
20:06:34 * stickster adds some themes from the name choice of Laughlin
20:07:02 <rbergeron> thanks, stickster :)
20:07:30 <rbergeron> If we can add that stuff in by the end of the meeting - I don't think there is much to do there - I can shoot out the email, if someone else wants to blog about it that would be awesome.
20:07:36 * rbergeron pokes at ke4qqq since he's here ;)
20:08:22 <rbergeron> orrrr anyone else - I can blog about it as well, it works out well if we have a few posts over a few days so that people eventually see it.
20:08:24 * stickster adds link to the art page for the F14 release
20:09:06 <rbergeron> #action rbergeron to send out call for release slogan ideas
20:09:27 <rbergeron> #info everyone, please blog about it - more eyeballs = more slogan ideas :)
20:09:27 <stickster> rbergeron: I'll help you with that -- I'll microblog it and I may add a blog entry too
20:09:42 <rbergeron> stickster: microblogging +1
20:09:49 <rbergeron> thanks for noting that
20:10:06 <stickster> rbergeron: I'll point to your blog entry, so feel free to poke me when it's up
20:10:35 * rbergeron notes that microblogging might be a good thing to add to the SOP for this as well as talking points if we didn't do that (I'm assuming someone did and is awesome) :)
20:10:47 <rbergeron> #action rbergeron to poke stickster when her blog post is up
20:11:05 <rbergeron> okay - I think that about wraps that up.
20:11:27 <rbergeron> #topic F14 Talking Points
20:11:45 <rbergeron> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_14_Talking_Points
20:12:04 * rrix saunters back in
20:12:16 * stickster added microblogging to TP SOP
20:12:33 <rbergeron> it looks like we have a few things left to populate on the talking points.
20:12:50 <rrix> >.< what's left?
20:13:17 <rbergeron> KDE - libjpeg-turbo
20:13:26 <rbergeron> sugar.90
20:13:43 * rbergeron isn't sure if those got added in later - looks like there have been some recent revisions
20:14:01 <stickster> rbergeron: We've been lax about *removing* things from the desktop area for TPs'
20:14:14 <stickster> As rrix and others noted last time... desktop is fairly light this release.
20:14:38 <stickster> I suspect that's because many of the people creating upstream features are working this cycle on making sure they're hardened in RHEL6.
20:14:39 <rbergeron> as in - things we'd normally put under spins are going under desktop :)
20:14:44 <stickster> rbergeron: Right.
20:14:46 <rrix> I'm still of the opinion that KDE shouldn't be a talking point, if we're going to stick to the "default desktop" idea..
20:14:53 <stickster> rrix: I have to agree.
20:15:16 <rrix> not to say I agree with that idea, but we need a single focus in our marketig :)
20:15:20 <rbergeron> So shall we move that stuff under spins, then?
20:15:41 <rrix> rbergeron: i'll do kde release talking points like I did for 12
20:15:43 * rbergeron notes that there is some grammar type stuff that needs fixing as well
20:15:53 <stickster> rbergeron: I can take a gander at the grammer.
20:15:56 <stickster> er, grammar.
20:16:00 <stickster> Maybe the speling too.
20:16:02 <stickster> ;-)
20:16:05 <rrix> hehe
20:16:22 * stickster just added microblogging to the release slogan SOP page.
20:16:44 * rbergeron wonders - if we shouldn't have KDE - then what about sugar, meego?
20:17:02 <rbergeron> at least in the desktop section, that is
20:17:15 <rrix> I think the desktop section should touch on the Desktop release
20:17:33 <stickster> MeeGo is a revamped/new spin
20:18:24 <stickster> Feel free to edit that stuff as we go.
20:18:45 <rbergeron> So in the past we've broken out spins into their own section. I'm hearing that we want to continue that trend?
20:19:09 <rrix> +1
20:20:17 <rbergeron> stickster, jsmith - yes?
20:20:34 * rbergeron suspects stickster is moving stuff around on the wiki - not sure if she should go in and edit over him or not
20:20:36 <stickster> Yes
20:21:04 <stickster> rbergeron: Yikes, before you save -- copy your text buffer some place safe
20:21:19 <rbergeron> stickster - i haven't started :)
20:21:32 * rbergeron just reloaded and saw she fouled up the capitalization there on the wiki page
20:21:37 <stickster> rbergeron: Ah, then you're safe to do it now -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_14_talking_points
20:21:40 * stickster fixed
20:21:56 <stickster> I think it was wrong on the Marketing page, I'll fix that quicklike
20:23:29 <stickster> Fixed
20:23:52 * rrix has to jet, sorry :(
20:24:06 * rbergeron waves to rrix
20:24:15 <rrix> bbl
20:24:16 <stickster> Bye rrix, thank
20:24:18 <stickster> *thanks
20:24:26 <stickster> rbergeron: The libjpeg-turbo needs some material, I can add that too.
20:25:01 <rbergeron> indeed, it does
20:25:30 <rbergeron> so - rrix indicated he'd be doing a separate talking points for KDE - should I delete that altogether?
20:25:38 <stickster> rbergeron: Yes, for now
20:25:43 * rbergeron can't remember what happened last time around
20:25:55 <rbergeron> okay, i'm editing / moving stuff real quicklike.
20:26:04 * stickster is working on libjpeg-turbo
20:26:39 <rrix> I lied, here for another 30 or so
20:26:53 <rrix> rbergeron: I applied to TP SOP to the KDE SIG :)
20:27:38 <rbergeron> rrix: you rock
20:27:45 <rrix> no u
20:27:54 <stickster> heh
20:28:22 * rbergeron hugs rrix, i owe u pizzatime
20:28:30 <rbergeron> okay, i've moved the spins
20:28:38 <rrix> mmm
20:29:41 <stickster> OK, done with libjpeg too
20:29:49 <rrix> yay
20:30:01 <stickster> rbergeron: So can I take a moment to talk about the overall talking points themes?
20:30:13 <stickster> I said something about this in the last meeting, but I figured you'd want to hear it too
20:30:19 <rbergeron> sure.
20:30:27 * rbergeron scrolled up through the last meeting but wasn't around
20:30:29 * jsmith pays close attention too
20:30:50 <stickster> I was talking about this to jsmith earlier as well. Basically, we know that this time around we're a little light on desktop features.  That's to be expected since GNOME 3, part of the default offering, was pushed back to March 2011.
20:31:34 <stickster> Also, a substantial number of Fedora contributors working directly on upstream desktop-related projects happen to be very involved with RHEL 6 right now.
20:32:08 * rbergeron nods, i've heard about this RHEL 6 thing around the house :)
20:32:28 <stickster> So whereas we've had a succession of releases chock-full of *lots* of desktop features -- this release is more about some of the "under the hood" improvements.
20:32:50 * rbergeron nods
20:33:02 <rrix> Didn't we say that about 12 too?
20:33:10 <rrix> (honest question)
20:33:36 <jsmith> Probably...
20:33:43 <jsmith> Big desktop changes are happening less and less often
20:33:48 <jsmith> (which is a good thing, imho)
20:33:50 <stickster> rrix: Actually we had quite a few big changes in F12 too -- PackageKit enhancements, NetworkManager enhancements, Ogg Theora video, and deltarpm
20:33:55 <stickster> those were all desktop related
20:34:05 <rrix> This is true
20:34:17 * rrix doesn't remember the days of Yore so well :P
20:34:45 <rbergeron> rrix: just sub "13" or "12" in for "14" in the talking points wiki ;D
20:34:51 <stickster> But we shouldn't lose sight of the fact that the whole point behind putting newer stuff into Fedora early helps people participate in the FOSS feedback loop -- trying things out, filing bugs and enhancements, and then getting the fruits of that labor back fairly quickly
20:34:56 <rrix> lol
20:35:11 <rrix> stickster: +1
20:35:22 <stickster> So in media like our one-page release notes, we don't need to kick out every single desktop thing listed there just because it's not brand new this release.
20:35:31 <MrTom> and i htink we should not make people think we do not care about desktop
20:35:31 <stickster> NetworkManager *still* kicks butt.
20:35:38 <stickster> (for example)
20:35:40 * rbergeron nods
20:36:12 <jsmith> And there *have* been some improvements in a lot of areas that were the "new shiny" features in previous releases
20:36:16 <rbergeron> and i'm sure we are still continuing to add things like - more printers for automatic installation - more webcam support, etc
20:36:18 <stickster> Something that I suggested to Jared and that we're going to suggest to the Red Hat Creative team is that we do a sort of retrospective on all the amazing stuff that happened between Fedora 10/11 and 14
20:36:35 <rbergeron> but we can't really call "even more webcam support" a feature in every release
20:36:41 <stickster> rbergeron: Agreed
20:36:48 <rbergeron> but it's probably good to highlight once we get to one-page release notes time.
20:37:10 <stickster> Yeah, we don't want to just laze around on that stuff. But we also want to make sure people who didn't see anything about the last release, can still appreciate all the good stuff that Just Works in *this* release too
20:38:24 * rbergeron nods.
20:38:53 <rbergeron> But that stuff is going to stay in with one page release notes - not going into Talking Points, which are features from feature list, essentially.
20:38:59 <stickster> rbergeron: Right
20:39:12 <rbergeron> who's on first? :) i think we're all on the same train here.
20:39:52 <stickster> And I think where jsmith is going to be interested in this is that interviewers will probably ask him questions about that -- like, "Hey, I noticed you're light on desktop features." And it's important for us to give some context around that.
20:39:53 <rrix> lol
20:41:21 * rbergeron agrees
20:41:57 <stickster> That was all I had :-)
20:41:58 <stickster> eof
20:42:58 <stickster> rbergeron: What's next for TPs then?
20:43:13 <rbergeron> Other than grammar love -
20:43:46 * rbergeron must be tired - she was looking at F13 talking points for a second there
20:43:58 <rrix> hah
20:44:06 <rbergeron> The sugar spin point needs love - it's empty.
20:44:20 <stickster> Maybe we can get pbrobinson to help with that
20:44:37 * rbergeron notes that sdake thinks the gdb-heap feature sounds awesome
20:44:50 <stickster> mchua_afk is on leave right now, but she might be able to add a few sentences there to help us out
20:45:15 <rrix> It is pretty awesome
20:45:18 <rbergeron> indeed, she is
20:45:20 * stickster doesn't understand it, but OK! :-D
20:45:20 <rrix> also fedora-developed :)
20:45:27 * rbergeron applauds mchua_afk for not being on when she's on leave :)
20:45:31 * stickster reads the point... and now he understands!
20:46:04 <rbergeron> that's what the talking points are for - turning them into english :)
20:46:19 <rbergeron> rrix: indeed :)
20:46:47 <rbergeron> so - other than sugar, and some grammar love, which I can apply tonight - I think these are about set.
20:46:51 * stickster is going through and correcting style/grammar where he can
20:47:05 <stickster> ipmiutil still doesn't make sense
20:47:09 <rbergeron> GNUstep is a reimplementation of the NextStep environment. It's a GUI framework based of the Objective-C programming language which is part of the gcc. It is also available n other Linux distribution like Debian or Gentoo Linux. Programm packages are easyly portable.
20:47:10 <stickster> Maybe ke4qqq can help with that one.
20:47:15 * rbergeron has eyes to poke out there
20:47:20 <ke4qqq> what can I help with?
20:47:28 <stickster> ke4qqq: ipmiutil
20:47:30 <rrix> stickster: ke4qqq said that the ipmi one takes a lot of prior knowledge.. I couldn't grok it even after he explained it ;P
20:47:55 <stickster> So we can't add like a sentence that says, "Here's what IPMI does"?
20:48:09 <ke4qqq> yeah - I gotta say I find it very hard to explain well without referring to long multipage explanations. :(
20:48:20 * stickster consults
20:48:22 <stickster> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPMI
20:48:42 <rrix> just copypasta the first sentence? ;)
20:49:11 <jsmith> I tried to update that section
20:49:13 * stickster tried somethin'
20:49:17 <jsmith> Obviously I didn't do a very good job :-(
20:49:19 <stickster> jsmith: Oops
20:49:26 <jsmith> I can try to explain it here, if that helps
20:49:36 <stickster> jsmith: Did I just overwrite you, or was that an earlier change you made?
20:49:43 * stickster just changed the page, try this out: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_14_talking_points#ipmiutil
20:49:43 <jsmith> I made the change last week
20:49:47 <rrix> ke4qqq: is it something like nagios or such, then?
20:49:58 <jsmith> Nope
20:49:58 <stickster> nagios is more like an alert system I think
20:50:01 <jsmith> Let me explain
20:50:03 <ke4qqq> rrix: no- though nagios can query it
20:50:20 <jsmith> Many modern server-class machines have what's called a "baseband controller"
20:50:32 <jsmith> HP calls it iLO, Dell calls it DRAC
20:50:56 <ke4qqq> Oracle, nee Sun calls it LOM
20:50:56 <rbergeron> it's a management standard for monitoring hardware information.  Monitoring hardware resources on a motherboard, etc. It uses a bus to allows the hardware on a board to talk to each other - messages for reset, get the temperature of the chip, set the fan control speed, etc - all in a standard way.
20:51:02 <jsmith> The baseband controller allows you to do things like query the motherboard sensors, reboot the machine, even have remote access to the console
20:51:10 <rbergeron> </sdake>
20:51:14 <jsmith> IPMI is the protocol used to query the baseband controller
20:51:41 <jsmith> In times past, it was difficult (nigh unto impossible in some cases) to actually interact with the controller in a meaningful way
20:51:50 <jsmith> (lots of complicated switches, no sane defaults, etc.)
20:51:59 <jsmith> ipmiutil makes it much much easier
20:52:47 <jsmith> Clear as mud yet?
20:52:49 * rbergeron notes that sdake talks much faster than she can type, and also used to work with the guy who wrote openipmi when he was at mvista
20:53:06 <rrix> jsmith: makes more sense, I think
20:53:11 <rrix> can we copypasta you? :)
20:53:21 <jsmith> rrix: CC-0
20:53:28 <jsmith> rrix: If I say it in IRC, it's yours!
20:53:33 <rrix> hehe
20:54:56 <rbergeron> okay - so is ke4qqq or rrix under the bus for this one? :)
20:55:06 * rrix points to david and runs
20:55:12 <rrix> Naw... I can if he doesn't want to :)
20:55:37 <jsmith> I can help a bit too -- making sure what you write is technically accurate, etc.
20:55:38 <ke4qqq> feel free to ask me
20:55:45 <ke4qqq> task
20:55:48 <ke4qqq> typing fail
20:56:23 <rbergeron> #action ke4qqq to put ipmiutil into english with more information about what IPMI actually is, etc
20:56:44 <stickster> rbergeron: ke4qqq I applied some language there already if you want to look at it/build on it/whatevah
20:57:04 * rbergeron reloads
20:57:09 * stickster KISS
20:57:18 <stickster> stickster puts the second S in KISS
20:58:38 <stickster> Anything else on this bit?
20:58:52 <rbergeron> stickster: i'm totally lost
20:58:57 <rbergeron> about the KISS thing
20:59:11 <stickster> "keep it simple, stupid"
20:59:28 <rbergeron> ohhhhh
20:59:35 <rbergeron> yeah, i'm slow today. :)
20:59:37 <stickster> It's OK, we can move on :_)
20:59:41 <ke4qqq> ohhh I thought it was 'keep it simple, stickster' :)
20:59:42 * rbergeron notes the time
21:00:23 <rbergeron> so - ke4qqq, if you want to add anything, do so - I will revisit the grammar this evening after I take a nap - We need to ping probinson or mchua about the sugar TP.
21:00:37 <rbergeron> Anyone else see anything glaring that needs love?
21:00:43 <ke4qqq> ok - I'll get my changes committed sometime tonight
21:00:48 <stickster> Not here
21:01:31 <rbergeron> awesome.
21:01:35 <stickster> rbergeron: jsmith: *: One general thing to think about -- the summary sentence at the end of a TP should concentrate on "How can you be awesome using this TP?"
21:01:43 <stickster> As opposed to "We have this thing now."
21:02:11 <rbergeron> stickster: are you referring to the part that is italicized?
21:02:17 <stickster> rbergeron: Exactly.
21:02:27 <rbergeron> that's what i thought.
21:02:52 <rbergeron> #action rbergeron to wrap up grammar tonight
21:03:09 <stickster> Example: https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Fedora_14_talking_points&diff=191826&oldid=191825
21:03:17 <rbergeron> #action rbergeron ping pbrobinson / mchua for sugar spin TP notes
21:03:47 <rbergeron> I'll email the list tonight when I'm done - and hopefully we can get some info in on Sugar - and we can have this wrapped in a few days, or as soon as we have the Sugar notes in.
21:04:14 <rbergeron> #info I'll email the list tonight when I'm done - and hopefully we can get some info in on Sugar - and we can have this wrapped in a few days, or as soon as we have the Sugar notes in.
21:06:07 <rbergeron> anything else?
21:06:22 * rbergeron will close out the meeting if not.
21:06:32 <stickster> rbergeron: Who's attending release readiness meeting from Marketing?
21:06:41 <stickster> (if anyone)
21:06:47 <rbergeron> stickster: i'm guessing that would be me :)
21:06:57 <stickster> Okey doke
21:07:00 <rbergeron> is there an email list for that?
21:07:13 <rbergeron> meeting reminder somewhere?
21:07:23 <stickster> rbergeron: I think it goes out to people individually and maybe to logistics too
21:07:42 <rbergeron> stickster: have you gotten a meeting reminder yet?
21:08:00 <stickster> rbergeron: Not that I saw
21:08:09 <stickster> rbergeron: I'll check on that for you.
21:08:11 <stickster> Our go/no-go meeting is tomorrow -- last I heard there's a substantial chance we'll end up with a slip. Too many things are still fluxy on the most recent RC.
21:08:19 <stickster> If that happens, the meeting may be postponed.
21:09:12 <rbergeron> stickster: thanks
21:09:22 * rbergeron hasn't seen anything - does that come from poelstra?
21:09:35 <ke4qqq> traditionally I get such an invitation and didn't. I see poelcats notice to devel-announce
21:12:26 <rbergeron> hrmmm
21:12:39 <rbergeron> yamlino
21:13:43 <rbergeron> okay. /me is going to end the meeting :)
21:13:48 * rbergeron counts backwards from 87
21:13:53 <rbergeron> 44
21:13:55 <rbergeron> 12
21:13:56 <rbergeron> 8
21:13:58 <rbergeron> 3
21:13:59 <rbergeron> 2
21:14:04 <rbergeron> #endmeeting