18:06:31 <kital> #startmeeting famsco-meeting 2010-06-21 18:06:31 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Jun 21 18:06:31 2010 UTC. The chair is kital. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:06:31 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 18:06:47 <kital> #chair spevack susmit 18:06:47 <zodbot> Current chairs: kital spevack susmit 18:07:03 <kital> welcome fellows 18:07:18 <kital> #roll call 18:07:20 <spevack> hi kital 18:07:23 <susmit> Susmit Shannigrahi 18:07:24 <kital> #topic roll call 18:07:27 <spevack> .fas mspevack 18:07:27 <kital> sorry 18:07:27 <zodbot> spevack: mspevack 'Max Spevack' <fedora@spevack.org> 18:07:30 <susmit> Susmit Shannigrahi 18:07:30 <kital> Joerg Simon 18:07:48 * Sparks_too lurks in the back 18:08:01 <kital> Agenda for today https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_agenda 18:08:29 <spevack> I have some general updates that I'd like to share, but I can do it any time 18:08:44 <kital> there are not so much points because we decided on the last meeting to work on the current items 18:09:09 <kital> so i propose to start with updates from spevack 18:09:23 <kital> #topic general updates from spevack 18:09:30 <spevack> Well, there's a few Fedora-related topics that I should discuss. 18:10:09 <spevack> First of all, my attention continues to be stretched thin -- kital knows this, as do others. Outside of budget stuff, I haven't had much public-facing time to do things in Fedora lately. But there are several areas that I am trying to get work done in: 18:10:22 <tatica> hello, sry for the delay 18:10:25 <spevack> (1) More resources for community affairs in EMEA, India, and LATAM if possible. 18:10:33 <spevack> (2) Making sure we keep spending money where it is needed. 18:10:41 <kital> hi tatica we are at topic general updates from spevack 18:10:42 <spevack> (3) Giving support to FUDCon organizational teams. 18:11:06 <spevack> Those are the areas that I personally feel are most important, and the places where my Fedora time will be spent. 18:11:12 <spevack> hi tatica ! 18:11:25 <tatica> hello, sorry all for my recent absence 18:11:27 <spevack> I think that some of those things fall into stuff FAMSCO cares about, so I mention it here 18:11:30 <spevack> EOF 18:12:46 <spevack> Other things that our team is working on @ RH include: 18:12:54 <spevack> * Education --> especially mchua working on POSSE 18:12:56 <kital> spevack: more resources sounds good - do you also have a way to distribute them ? or will you the single person who is accountable 18:13:16 <spevack> kital: we will distribute them, still working on credit cards for community worldwide. I do *not* want a single person accountable 18:13:19 <spevack> especially not me :) 18:13:36 <kital> spevack: ;) understood 18:13:43 <spevack> so the plan is for as much distribution as possible, which fits in the FAMSCO theme of regional accountability and leadership 18:14:20 <kital> short ways is something really needed - if i think of the idlelo money transfer 18:14:28 <kital> ;P 18:14:57 <spevack> yeah... 18:15:36 * ke4qqq is here sorry for my tardiness 18:15:53 <spevack> once again, EOF from me :) 18:15:55 <kital> giving fudcon support to orga teams - i can only speak for emea - Gerold and me commited us to support fudcon zurich with all ressources we have to make it a success 18:16:33 <kital> i am in contact with santa fe tex to produce the fudcon shirts wonderfull designed by tatica 18:16:52 <kital> gerold is looking for the social program around the event 18:17:08 <kital> i will keep sure all the banners are there and so on ... 18:17:13 <kital> anyway ;) eof 18:17:30 <susmit> we are also discussing a fudcon next year 18:17:48 <susmit> let's see how that goes 18:17:59 <kital> susmit: super! 18:18:20 <susmit> eof 18:18:24 <ke4qqq> spevack: is there anything we can do to share the load with you? 18:18:30 <kital> as i did not heared something about foss.in this year this could be the place to make something similar happen 18:19:03 <susmit> it's too early for foss.in :) 18:19:06 <spevack> well, the fact that everyone else on famsco is able to be closer to the regional ambassadors is a huge, huge help. 18:19:23 <kital> ke4qqq: i should reduce my ping timeouts to spevack 18:19:35 <kital> ;) 18:21:03 <kital> i think that we are very effective with the instruments we use - we slowed a bit down since we started this year 18:21:54 <kital> besides that we are not communicating too much - do you think famsco is still in good shape 18:21:55 <ke4qqq> in some ways I think that is natural - beginning of the year is right after release - so as we draw close to a release we have a ton of responsibilities elsewhere 18:21:58 <kital> ? 18:22:29 <susmit> nah, I don't think we are in good shape 18:22:41 <ke4qqq> susmit: what would/could we do to improve? 18:22:54 <kital> susmit: why do you think is that so? 18:23:31 <tatica> routine? 18:23:56 <susmit> kital, there is no argument going on anywhere...everything is calm....there seems to be no issues with ambassadors..etc etc 18:24:08 <susmit> :) 18:24:49 <ke4qqq> there are discussions going on (such as those for prereqs for ambassadors from famna) that I feel I have been absent from - and we've largely been silent on. 18:25:26 <ke4qqq> but I fear activity for activity's sake - esp from a "governing body" 18:25:45 <kital> if we look at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_tasks do you think we do fulfil this tasks? 18:25:58 <spevack> i think the question to ask is "what conversations do we need to be part of, that we're not?" 18:26:01 * spevack looks 18:26:28 * spevack waits to see what others say 18:26:40 <kital> if we would know that ;) ... 18:27:21 <susmit> kital, mostly yes. Except the regional meeting for APAC. 18:27:54 <kital> spevack: do you think of liasonship to other groups? 18:28:11 <kital> or conversation inside Ambassadors - Ambassador Business 18:28:21 <susmit> spevack, there is no interesting discussion on the FAL at all..that's what worries me. 18:29:18 <spevack> susmit: what worries me is that ambassadors list seems to have only two settings -- silence or GIANT ARGUMENTS 18:30:08 <ke4qqq> ironically - silence worries me more than arguments 18:30:14 <kital> if i think of the Fedora Ambassadors Africa discussion - very less African Ambassadors stepped up in this discussion 18:30:18 <kital> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/ambassadors/2010-June/014784.html 18:30:58 <tatica> maybe the best way to measure what a region does is not a list or meetings 18:31:10 <tatica> maybe to see events and projects would be better 18:31:28 <susmit> kital, yes, that is a good one. 18:31:31 <ke4qqq> though my real concern is that we seem to have a lack of inertia (and not just within ambassadors) almost as if we have lost purpose. 18:31:36 <kital> tatica: i agree to a certain level - and i saw some numbers in F13 Event Reports 18:31:57 <tatica> also, perhaps the recent release has everyone expenting the resoults of their local efforts 18:31:58 <susmit> ke4qqq, exactly my point 18:32:09 <tatica> that can also be a "possible why" 18:32:27 <tatica> (sry, my english is worst than ever :\ ) 18:32:32 <kital> tatica: ;) 18:32:53 <kital> if we take ourself 18:33:11 <ke4qqq> so how would we fix it susmit?? 18:33:26 <kital> we agreed to proceed our discussion about Additional Restrictions on Ambassadors Membership - on the famsco mailing list 18:33:29 <kital> and we don´t 18:33:41 <kital> or is it dont 18:33:48 <kital> ;) 18:33:51 <ke4qqq> yes, thats my fault - I brough it up and didn't follow through. 18:34:29 <ke4qqq> brought even 18:34:36 <tatica> maybe, the words we are using doesn't like the people we represent 18:34:42 <kital> do we really need new candidates to step up to rework the Ambassadors Conduct Page 18:34:43 <tatica> haven't you think in this idea? 18:34:45 <kital> ? 18:34:45 <kital> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/ambassadors/2010-June/014721.html 18:34:47 <susmit> ke4qqq, I don't really know how to fix it, but I know that we need to fix it. 18:35:21 <tatica> restrictions can be substituted by 'features' or things like that (maybe spanish translation doesn't help me too much) 18:35:27 <ke4qqq> kital: IMO that task is firmly in our plate 18:35:43 <kital> ke4qqq: +1 18:35:53 <tatica> just like the planet thread 18:35:57 <kital> thats the reason why it is a topic today 18:36:27 <kital> susmit: i do not agree that it is on us to fix it 18:36:37 <susmit> ke4qqq, another of my concern is if we do everything ourselves, how do we identify the next leaders...that's why I always search for people who can come forward and do things. Sometime that works...sometimes not 18:36:41 <susmit> kital, ^ 18:37:26 <kital> susmit: i can think of shrink and hiemanshu for india as the next regional leaders 18:37:32 <kital> from my humble pov 18:37:46 * tatica goes with yn1v :) 18:37:48 <kital> or Pierros and Robert in EMEA 18:37:55 <kital> tatica: +1 18:38:05 <kital> but this people are already the leaders 18:38:07 <tatica> he has helping me a lot in this moments 18:38:21 <tatica> while I do the artwork and aprove ambassadors he takes care of events and supply 18:38:33 <tatica> the leaders will show up with 2 reasons: 18:38:36 <kital> s/leaders/catalyts/ 18:38:49 <tatica> 1.- somethings must be change to keep everything working... and they know how to do it 18:38:51 <tatica> or 18:38:53 <kital> s/catalyts/catalysts/ aahh 18:38:55 <ke4qqq> so I think the problem is growing apathy - here and elsewhere - we have a situation where things are changing - there is an uneasiness about the future and direction of the project, and people seem less interested in investing themselves. others fear the loss of community ideals..... 18:39:01 <tatica> 2.- they like the structure and want to be part of it 18:39:35 <kital> ke4qqq: new elections? 18:39:36 <ke4qqq> people feel powerless to in that change, and thus stop caring. 18:39:55 <ke4qqq> kital: I am not talking about a famsco specific problem. 18:40:02 <ke4qqq> or even something I think we can solve sadly 18:40:15 <tatica> all community 18:40:27 <tatica> for example... design only has like 3 or 4 ideas for a theme 18:40:36 <spevack> susmit: and next regional leaders in india are specifically important with you moving to the USA :) 18:40:36 <tatica> we SHOULD have near 10-15 in this dates 18:40:38 <kital> ok then please all first lets answer the question - do we need to change something in famsco in a short term? 18:40:45 <susmit> kital, to be very honest, Here in India I am not so sure about the people you mentioned...I don't see them doing a lot of ambassadorial work. Anyway..we will see. 18:40:49 <ke4qqq> yep - anyone seen the feature list?? 18:40:55 <ke4qqq> or lack thereof 18:41:20 <kital> susmit: pm you about hiemanshu presenting fsl in new delhi if possible 18:41:32 <susmit> kital, ok 18:42:19 <kital> ke4qqq: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features 18:42:20 <kital> ? 18:43:02 <susmit> ke4qqq, a few are in the list, but it is for them to come forward and take charge. Let's see how that goes. 18:43:10 <kital> spevack: i settle over to india then ;) 18:43:30 <susmit> kital, nice idea :) 18:43:36 <ke4qqq> kital: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/14/FeatureList 18:44:05 <kital> ke4qqq: ups, short 18:44:31 <ke4qqq> and feature deadline in 3 weeks 18:44:41 <ke4qqq> anyway, sometihng we can't solve 18:45:02 <kital> but we should care about it 18:45:34 <ke4qqq> yes, we all should. 18:46:12 <kital> famsco related we should not forget that a lot marketing things we have done just by the way are now changed to marketing 18:46:37 <spevack> ke4qqq: regarding features (which obviously is not a famsco thing) I think that people are just exhausted after the last release. 18:46:49 <kital> a lot of strategical discussion which happened on the ambassadors list now happens on the marketing liust 18:46:59 <kital> s/liust/list 18:47:15 <spevack> And Red Hat engineers probably don't have a lot for F14 since RHEL6 is their main focus 18:47:19 <ke4qqq> hopefully 18:47:30 <kital> ke4qqq: i felt the same for F13 18:47:33 <spevack> so I think that a short release plus RHEL distractions makes it sensible to predict lighter features? 18:47:45 <ke4qqq> spevack: probably so 18:47:51 <susmit> spevack, indeed 18:48:43 <kital> sensible? 18:50:07 <kital> ok - do we need a action item for something on this? 18:50:26 <kital> is there a conclusion? 18:51:24 <kital> can we agree that we as famsco are able to still do our work? and that we like what we do? 18:51:57 <spevack> sure, i think that's definitely a given 18:52:08 * ke4qqq agrees with spevack 18:52:12 <kital> ke4qqq tatica susmit ? 18:52:14 <susmit> The first one, yes. The second one is also yes 18:52:44 <kital> ok ;) 18:52:51 <kital> puh 18:53:21 <tatica> ok 18:53:26 <kital> ok lets have short look at the current action items 18:53:36 <kital> #topic current action items 18:53:46 <kital> spevack: any news on famsco trac 18:53:50 <spevack> Mine are what I described earlier -- budget stuff as we get deeply in to Q2 18:53:56 <spevack> FUDCon stuff, which isn't really famsco but is related. 18:54:00 <spevack> Credit cards 18:54:52 <kital> spevack: so this is a ongoing task - i remove it from the current action item - it is covered by https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_tasks#Budget anyway 18:54:58 <spevack> kital: and famsco trac is something I will JUST DO :) 18:55:04 <spevack> ok 18:55:19 <ke4qqq> spevack: can someone else (I'll volunteer) do that for you? 18:55:28 <spevack> sure! :) 18:56:00 <ke4qqq> ok, I'll try and start working on that tonight or tomorrow. 18:56:29 <kital> #action ke4qqq volunteers on Deletion of old tickets with private info, then open famsco's trac instance to the public. 18:56:53 <kital> susmit news on FAQ and Release Events 18:56:59 <kital> ? 18:57:33 <susmit> release events are going great, you all must be reading the reports....FAQ will be done by tomorrow. 18:57:52 * tatica will keep doing what she does, help with artwork, and help people to organize their events, project and stuff 18:58:16 <susmit> once the release events are done, I shall compile the complete list and pass it to the lists.. 18:58:18 <susmit> eof 18:58:25 <kital> susmit: lfoppiano susmit announce 2010-June-30 as the final deadline for F13 Release Event Reports 18:58:30 <kital> is this happened? 18:58:54 <susmit> APAC people know that...I shall blog that right away...sorry 18:59:15 <kital> can happen - i also miss things 18:59:56 <susmit> yes, but embarrassing anyway :) 19:00:06 <kital> from myself i stepped back to bring the Mentors Survey on limesurvey or something and just sent an email to all mentors and will aggregate the answers 19:00:14 <kital> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/famsco/2010-June/000205.html 19:00:42 <kital> famsco members who are not sponsors are welcome to answer anyhow 19:01:44 <kital> as noticed before the last EMEA-Africa meeting as one chance to discuss milestones for F14 Release did not happened next chance this wednesday EMEA Meeting for me 19:02:11 <kital> thank ke4qqq for the FAMNA Feedback on Schedule 19:02:23 <kital> s/thank/thanks 19:02:43 <susmit> kital, blog done 19:02:45 * ke4qqq didn't do much - others drove that conversation I believe - rbergeron and herlo 19:02:57 <tatica> new ambassadors in latam comes with an old ambassador recomendation this days 19:03:09 <tatica> has been great 19:03:46 <kital> tatica: any feedback from your side on officila ambassadorial schedule for F14 19:03:58 <kital> s/officila/official 19:04:15 <tatica> latam right now has 2 targets, central and south 19:04:34 <tatica> south is just taking care about fudcon, and central is on a tour guided by neville spreading 19:04:58 <tatica> between brazil, venezuela and argentina guys are packaging some apps 19:05:08 <kital> tatica: very promising 19:05:09 <tatica> but I'm having some troubles finding sponsors for them 19:05:24 <tatica> dgilmore has been helping a lot 19:05:48 <ke4qqq> tatica: could you detail some of this in a blog post - or if it's happened I have missed it completely 19:05:57 <tatica> sure 19:06:14 * tatica doesn't like to go on f-planet, but will do it 19:07:11 <kital> this is another sad story where community health was not working 19:09:13 * ke4qqq needs to depart - sorry for coming late and leaving early - have a short $dayjob meeting to attend 19:09:36 <tatica> ke4qqq, :) 19:10:24 <kital> ok lets end the meeting for today 19:10:41 <kital> the other new topic is something we all have to work on 19:10:41 <susmit> no, it is late already for us too...we are over one hour..should we be going? I have noted five tasks..FAQ/Official Schedule/Mentoring Survey/Membership Restriction/Ambassador Conduct 19:11:33 <kital> susmit: this are still current tasks yes 19:11:52 <susmit> I shall finish my part by tomorrow. 19:11:58 <kital> do we want discuss Ambassadors Conduct now? 19:12:08 <spevack> kital: thanks for leading the conversation here today. it's a difficult meeting 19:12:31 <kital> i felt we lost a bit focus in that meeting and dont wanted to use too much force 19:14:46 <susmit> kital, I think we should stop today..let's see if we can get it going on the list :) 19:15:07 <susmit> I sincerely hope we will be able to :) 19:15:24 <kital> susmit: i will try 19:15:32 <kital> ok folks lets end meeting 19:15:44 <susmit> kital, thanks for leading the meeting 19:15:57 <spevack> agreed, thank you kital and everyone for participating 19:16:03 <kital> thanks all for attending - btw - i´ve got a email from fugolini - he told me he is back!!! ;) 19:16:08 <spevack> yay! 19:16:18 <kital> #endmeeting