18:02:32 <kital> #startmeeting famsco-meeting 2010-03-29
18:02:34 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Mar 29 18:02:32 2010 UTC.  The chair is kital. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:02:36 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:02:43 <marcus_> marcus_ is here
18:02:55 <kital> #chair spevack
18:02:56 <zodbot> Current chairs: kital spevack
18:03:03 <kital> #topic Roll Call
18:03:06 <kital> Joerg Simon
18:03:11 <lfoppiano> Luca Foppiano
18:03:12 <ke4qqq> David Nalley
18:03:14 <marcus_> Marcus Moeller
18:03:21 <susmit> Susmit Shannigrahi
18:03:26 <spevack> Max Spevack
18:04:05 <red_alert> Sandro Mathys (spectator)
18:05:17 <kital> * RodrigoPadula is here
18:05:20 <kital> ;)
18:05:21 <spevack> what's first on the list?
18:05:36 <kital> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_agenda
18:05:41 <RodrigoPadula> Rodrigo Padula
18:06:05 <kital> as we have marcus_ and red_alert around i think we should make the fudcon topic our first one
18:06:14 <marcus_> that would be great
18:06:29 <RodrigoPadula> +1
18:06:30 <lfoppiano> +1
18:06:34 <susmit_> +1
18:06:46 <spevack> yes
18:06:50 <kital> #topic Event Organization - FUDCon EMEA 2010 - clarification Bid Process seems to stuck!? and how can famsco support the comm arch team
18:07:08 <marcus_> we where a bit frustrated about the overall process, which has somewhat been discussed on the ambassadors and planning list
18:07:43 <marcus_> max stated that he did not have the time to coordinate  or even to take a decision
18:08:14 <spevack> marcus_: i think the point that I was getting at on (I think) Saturday or Friday night was the following:
18:08:20 <kital> marcus_: go on but please for the further meeting follow meeting guidelines ;)
18:08:33 <marcus_> kital, sorry
18:08:41 <kital> marcus_: np
18:08:42 <spevack> (1) "We" meaning the Fedora Project are trying to get a formal process in place for all furture FUDCon organizations.  and...
18:08:46 <spevack> (2)
18:09:19 <spevack> That involves a "bid process" and it's pretty clear that Zurich is the only location with motivated owners and people like yourself who have done a lot of research, which means that with 5 months until a September FUDCon, it's definitely time to *make* a decision.
18:09:27 <spevack> and (3) Apologies for not having had a decision made sooner.
18:09:28 <spevack> EOF
18:09:32 <kital> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_bid_process
18:09:37 <kital> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_and_FAD_locations#Zurich
18:09:45 <spevack> just to be clear, I believe that Zurich has followed the bid process quite well.
18:10:08 <kital> ok - now to keep this usefull ...
18:10:08 <marcus_> yes, i had some discussions with paul to improve the process and we already added some notes to the relevant wiki pages
18:11:13 <kital> what needs to be solved most important
18:11:20 <kital> marcus_: ?
18:11:24 <spevack> marcus_: in your opinion, what would you like to see next?
18:11:33 <marcus_> is it now clear that we can make it?
18:11:36 <red_alert> so FUDCon EMEA 2010 will definitely take place in Zurich, right? like officially and all
18:11:41 <spevack> Get the wiki pages set up, and start the hard-core organization?
18:12:04 <marcus_> ok, that sounds great.
18:12:14 <marcus_> can we profit from past plannings in some form?
18:12:27 <spevack> I think that *given* the processes that we are trying to set up and follows, Zurich is the location for 2010's EMEA FUDCon, yes.  *ASSUMING* that you guys still want to make it happen.
18:12:41 <spevack> marcus_: I think that we can definitely use past planning.
18:12:43 <marcus_> e.g. are there persons besides you with good knowlege about budget and such things?
18:12:52 <spevack> marcus_: yes.
18:13:18 <marcus_> that would be great, because you don't reply to emails that often
18:13:26 <spevack> marcus_: you've made that point very clearly :)
18:13:26 <marcus_> nor to ml posts...
18:13:45 <spevack> marcus_: perhaps you should tell me a few more times how awful i am at my job.  I'm sure that will help.
18:13:47 <marcus_> so please tell me whom to contact instead if you are so busy
18:14:03 <marcus_> spevack, hey you are getting money for that :)
18:14:25 <marcus_> okay. we are going to set up a basic page
18:14:31 <marcus_> with some open questions
18:14:32 <red_alert> I'm not 100% sure if it's not too late to be able to organize everything (mostly hotel rooms / conference rooms)  but Marcus made some great efforts while I travelled through Japan and outlook is pretty good ATM :)
18:14:33 <spevack> marcus_: the fudcon-planning list is where we'll do all the communication
18:14:43 <kital> ok marcus_ from your pov - what are the next steps that need to be clarified here and how can famsco support the comm arch team
18:14:49 <marcus_> i am going to post the link on the planning list and invite others to join up on the ambassadors list
18:15:17 <spevack> marcus_ and red_alert: if conference rooms and hotel can be finalized, everything else is easy.  :)
18:15:23 <marcus_> ok
18:15:35 <red_alert> spevack: agreed, that's why we've been working on that for some time already
18:15:39 <spevack> red_alert: yep, i know
18:16:05 <kital> marcus_ red_alert you want to do the fudcon in barcamp mode or plan an agenda like we do in india?
18:16:06 <marcus_> the next step would be to collect ideas of possible sub-events meetings and put them on  wiki page. the guys from india already did some nice stuff for their fudcon
18:16:08 <kital> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon:Pune_2010/Agenda
18:16:24 <marcus_> yes
18:16:38 <kital> marcus_: it was an "or" question ;)
18:16:42 <marcus_> i think we are going to plan a little agenda and offer some free hacking space
18:17:03 <marcus_> that's the page i was looking for kital
18:17:05 <spevack> i'm sure that it will have some similar flavors to other fudcons, and maybe some new ideas as well.
18:17:20 <spevack> marcus_: I'd borrow most heavily from FUDCon Toronto's pages and planning process.
18:17:50 <marcus_> ok. what I would prefer if we could outline what needs to be done for planning, while planning
18:18:08 <kital> marcus_: i also suggest a weekly or at least 14 days organization meeting to keep the planning process going
18:18:09 <marcus_> this would help upcoming event orga to do their job as well
18:19:03 <spevack> I can get the basic wiki pages set up after this meeting.
18:19:04 <red_alert> kital: that's right, that's been a good thing last year :) thanks for the reminder!
18:19:04 <marcus_> and as this should be a wiki page it's open for everyone to contribute
18:19:10 <marcus_> spevack, thanks
18:19:11 <ke4qqq> marcus_: this might help http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_organization_process
18:19:19 <spevack> marcus_: I *promise* you that will be done later today :)
18:19:30 <marcus_> hehe
18:19:44 <marcus_> please post the link on the planning list
18:19:54 <spevack> i will
18:20:18 <marcus_> ok. from my pov we are ready to go.
18:20:26 <spevack> great!
18:20:27 <marcus_> red_alert, what do you think?
18:20:33 <kital> perfect can we do action items on that?
18:20:45 <red_alert> I'm ready since last autumn
18:20:55 <spevack> #action spevack fudcon zurich/emea 2010 wiki pages set up, initial population of info, and sent to fudcon-planning list
18:21:00 <kital> i dont get who is doing what for the next steps
18:21:04 <kital> ah thanks spevack
18:21:18 <ke4qqq> spevack: is that something we can offload from you?
18:21:30 <kital> red_alert: can you take care for regular planing meetings?
18:21:31 <marcus_> i am managing the hotel and room stuff
18:21:31 <spevack> #action marcus_ figure out a time for a weekly IRC meeting for fudcon zurich planning on fudcon-planning list
18:21:40 <kital> oki ;)
18:21:40 <marcus_> ok
18:21:44 <spevack> ke4qqq: i set aside time today to do that stuff, so it's ok.
18:21:51 <ke4qqq> ok
18:22:21 <kital> great - thanks marcus_ and red_alert for your time - and also the time you already put into it!
18:22:26 <marcus_> i would suggest a bi-weekly meeting instead.
18:22:31 <spevack> marcus_: sure :)
18:22:41 <marcus_> hehe
18:22:48 <red_alert> +1 for bi-weekly...at least until we get closer to the event :)
18:23:01 <marcus_> okay thanks guys. leaving for today.
18:23:33 <kital> ok thanks
18:23:52 <red_alert> same here...getting some sleep after flying 15hrs through 7 time zones ;)
18:24:04 <kital> red_alert: good night - welcome back
18:24:16 <kital> next topic
18:24:28 <kital> #topic Review https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors_project_structure
18:24:35 <kital> thanks ke4qqq for your work!
18:24:49 <ke4qqq> sorry it's so late in coming
18:25:28 <kital> you posted it already on the list
18:25:47 <kital> @all are there points listed that famsco should discuss?
18:25:51 <ke4qqq> and no one flamed me yet - soooo - perhaps it isn't awful
18:26:02 <kital> s/should/needs to
18:26:37 * spevack is basically ready to just go do FUDCon stuff for the next few hours.
18:27:23 <spevack> ke4qqq: I thought the project structure page was good.
18:27:26 <kital> ke4qqq: seems you did it very clear - nobody finds a fault in it
18:27:33 <spevack> it does a nice job of clarifying things.
18:28:13 <ke4qqq> ok if no one has complaints I'll strip the draft tag and link to it from [[Ambassadors]]
18:28:18 <ke4qqq> later today
18:28:19 <kital> ke4qqq: +1
18:28:45 <kital> more votes?
18:28:51 <spevack> +1
18:29:03 <ke4qqq> I'll +1 myself :)
18:29:09 <kital> ;)
18:29:17 <lfoppiano> +1
18:29:24 <kital> susmit_: RodrigoPadula ?
18:30:21 <susmit_> yes +1
18:30:30 <susmit_> sorry
18:30:37 <kital> #action ke4qqq strip the draft tag from https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors_project_structure
18:31:10 <kital> next topic would be open floor
18:31:19 <ke4qqq> !
18:31:22 <kital> ke4qqq:
18:31:39 <ke4qqq> so we've been having a lot of ambassadors both on and off list
18:31:50 <ke4qqq> not be 'most excellent' to each other
18:32:00 <ke4qqq> and a rash of resignation - or attempts thereof
18:32:08 * spevack nods
18:32:09 <ke4qqq> any thoughts on curbing either?
18:32:37 <ke4qqq> seems like the past few weeks have been abnormally high in incidents
18:32:48 * spevack did his best to handle the incident that he felt he was at fault for.
18:32:59 <ke4qqq> which is strange for f-a-l - is -devel bleeding off into us? :)
18:33:05 <kital> i think that the community is pretty much self regulated - and i think we as famsco should lead by example
18:33:27 <susmit_> kital, by resigning? ;)
18:33:35 <ke4qqq> yeah - I was impressed with the handling of that incident involving spevack - he took responsibility up front. but there is still exchanges going over that.
18:33:41 <ke4qqq> heh
18:33:56 <ke4qqq> there are still exchanges....
18:34:45 <kital> susmit_: ;) threatening is never a good idea
18:34:52 <ke4qqq> EOF from me
18:35:21 <ke4qqq> I think susmit was suggesting we do it right the first time - not threaten :)
18:35:45 <spevack> I'm going to be writing some private emails this week to other folks who were angry about the EMEA stuff.
18:36:08 <kital> i think susmit_ is tired of all the "i resign - because of this and this and ..."
18:36:23 * ke4qqq is contemplating whether a be most excellent email to the list would be helpful - I seem to doubt it but...
18:36:27 <kital> susmit_: was my interpretation right?
18:36:40 <susmit_> I am not tired..I am worried
18:36:53 * spevack is getting a phone call from an insurance company
18:36:54 <spevack> brb
18:37:06 <susmit_> if that becomes the trend, too bad for us
18:37:28 <susmit_> kital, ^
18:37:34 <kital> susmit_: right
18:38:17 <susmit_> and it also encourages other people to take similar decisions when done on public list
18:38:22 <ke4qqq> sets a very bad example IMO
18:38:23 <ke4qqq> yes
18:38:53 <susmit_> eof
18:38:57 <kital> thats why it is most important that we lead by example as said before - we should be responsive, levelheaded and encouraging
18:40:10 <susmit_> yes, but we need to convey that there is at least one step before resigning...dropping a mail to famsco
18:40:33 <susmit_> but unfortunately, that has not happened so far.
18:40:35 <kital> susmit_: big +1
18:40:55 <ke4qqq> yes - if no one else wants it - I'll draft a mail to the list asking that 1. they play nice with each other and 2. if they get frustrated and want to quit to come to famsco/regional leadership first
18:41:01 <kital> is someone willing to draft an email to the Ambassador List -
18:41:05 <kital> ke4qqq: ;)
18:41:43 <susmit_> ke4qqq, I shall help
18:41:54 <kital> ke4qqq susmit +1 yes good idea
18:41:55 <ke4qqq> susmit_: cool
18:42:14 <kital> #action ke4qqq susmit_ draft a mail to the list asking that 1. they play nice with each other and 2. if they get frustrated and want to quit to come to famsco/regional leadership  first
18:42:53 <stickster> It would even be enough to say that *any* time an Ambassador has a frustration s/he can't resolve, they can come to FAmSCo or regional leaders
18:43:05 <stickster> They don't have to be ready to quit first! :-)
18:43:13 <susmit_> :-)
18:43:23 <ke4qqq> +1 stickster
18:43:26 <kital> stickster: ;)
18:44:02 <kital> one other thing please remember to fill your content in the monthly famsco report
18:44:03 <spevack> yes, +1 as well.
18:44:05 * spevack is back.
18:44:14 * spevack shakes his head over his poor injured car
18:44:16 <kital> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_report_2010-03
18:45:04 <ke4qqq> whats the deadline for this document?
18:45:12 * ke4qqq is having to harass NA people for event reports
18:45:43 <kital> i would say 01.April 2010 15:00 UTC
18:46:14 <kital> ok for all?
18:46:25 <ke4qqq> workforme
18:46:32 <spevack> worksforme also
18:46:45 * ke4qqq apparently can't type
18:47:11 <kital> ;)
18:47:27 <kital> ok thats all this time from my pov
18:47:56 <spevack> thanks for leading this meeting, kital
18:47:59 <kital> any other topics or questions?
18:48:02 <kital> spevack: ;)
18:48:31 <kital> endmeeting ?
18:48:33 <kital> 3
18:48:39 <kital> 2
18:48:44 <kital> 1
18:48:49 <kital> #endmeeting