20:02:13 <rbergeron> #startmeeting
20:02:14 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Mar 18 20:02:13 2010 UTC.  The chair is rbergeron. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
20:02:16 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
20:02:28 <rbergeron> Marketing meeting!
20:02:39 <stickster> rbergeron: Can you chair others too?
20:02:42 <rbergeron> i am
20:02:45 <stickster> oh cool
20:02:48 <rbergeron> #chair stickster mchua
20:02:48 <zodbot> Current chairs: mchua rbergeron stickster
20:02:55 * stickster is playing with access levels to give zodbot more leeway here
20:02:58 <rbergeron> anyone else want it
20:03:04 <wonderer> #topic marketing meeting started
20:03:15 * mchua is here
20:03:18 * rbergeron is still getting the ropes of meetbot... doesn't usually run them regularly so she can be referring to notes
20:03:21 <rbergeron> who's here
20:03:25 * rbergeron is here
20:03:36 * wonderer is here ... at least typingly. Brain is still waking up.
20:03:41 * ke4qqq is sorta here - in and out.
20:03:56 * rbergeron nods
20:04:03 <rbergeron> wonderer, how was your travel back?
20:04:15 <rbergeron> fyi all: rrix can't make it, he's at ASU orientation
20:04:38 <stickster> Hope you're having fun rrix
20:04:41 <rbergeron> #topic Agenda
20:04:43 <wonderer> rbergeron: good. hanks. found out, that the Luxair Stewardesses looks much better the the US airways ones...
20:05:01 <rbergeron> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_meetings
20:05:06 <rbergeron> wonderer: that's good news
20:05:17 <rbergeron> so today's agenda has a few things...
20:05:28 * mchua ready to go on feature profiles, ftr
20:05:48 <rbergeron> first item is Feature profiles, and also Marketing FAD followup, and
20:05:53 <rbergeron> Start finding "ambassadors" to other teams for "Join" festivities between Beta and GA
20:06:10 * mchua would like to add another one (will edit wiki momentarily) which is "Give Allegheny Students Work To Do"
20:06:38 * rbergeron nods
20:06:40 <rbergeron> that works
20:06:50 <wonderer> mchua: that fits also to the ambassadors finding stuff...?!
20:06:52 <rbergeron> so.. i'm going to start with marketing fad followup quickly
20:07:03 <rbergeron> #topic Marketing FAD 2010 - followup
20:07:11 <rbergeron> unless anyone has objections, of course
20:07:22 <wonderer> fine, go on
20:07:34 <rbergeron> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_FAD_2010
20:07:59 <rbergeron> so for anyone who is reading these logs or present that is unaware... we wrapped up our Marketing FAD on tuesday, after a weekend of plowing through a lot of work and agenda items
20:08:16 <mchua> We had one! It was teh awesum! I am not done going through gobby notes yet, but am continuing to do so after this meeting.
20:08:17 <rbergeron> and we have quite a list of things that people have committed to doing as followup.
20:08:23 <rbergeron> mchua is currently going through gobby notes
20:08:24 * wonderer dreams of plowing...
20:08:27 <rbergeron> as she just pointed out
20:08:27 <stickster> It was a frightening amount of material
20:08:40 <rbergeron> so I think what I'll do with that, when she's done
20:08:41 <stickster> mchua: You are truly heroic. Like Clash of the Titans style.
20:08:42 <rbergeron> is the following:
20:08:48 * mchua apologizes for belatedness of her action items, was so exhausted when I got to Meadville last night that I just went up and fell asleep.
20:09:03 * mchua is all good now. got 8 hours of sleep, even!
20:09:09 <stickster> yay
20:09:13 <rbergeron> #action mchua to send out FAD Summary wiki link - this should cover what we did, accomplished, and task items that came out of the meeting
20:09:26 <wonderer> stickster: think about when the material is ready. That will be MUCHmuch more material we have then.
20:09:35 <rbergeron> #action rbergeron to add task items to trac, and start discussions as appropriate... and follow up with email to the marketing list.
20:09:49 <rbergeron> I think to discuss each item to follow up is slightly redundant and would take more than our alotted meeting time.
20:09:54 <rbergeron> Does anyone have any thing they'd like to add to that?
20:09:54 * mchua nods.
20:10:05 <stickster> rbergeron: From the ticket filing we should be able to prioritize the list handily. No sense in going through it now.
20:10:08 * wonderer nods
20:10:29 <rbergeron> I think the key here is to just make sure we're on task for the next few days doing the assigning, poking, etc. as needed
20:10:35 <mchua> I think we're good on the FAD, I'll be in #fedora-mktg working on cleanup right after this.
20:11:19 <rbergeron> so i think... well.
20:11:28 <mchua> What's next? :)
20:11:43 <wonderer> The MKTG FAD 2010 as an Event and as a great starting point was a GREAT and BIG succes for all. the attendees and the project itself I think.
20:11:44 <rbergeron> #action Add to next week's marketing meeting agenda - ensure that all wiki items / tasks / etc. have been followed up on, documented
20:12:11 <rbergeron> #action rbergeron to go through that list and double check she or someone followed up on everything, and get owners at next tuesdya's meeting for any leftover / unvolunteered items
20:12:20 <rbergeron> kosher?
20:12:22 <stickster> I think a big part of that task is prioritizing the list and figuring out what we can act on short-term, vs. what we want to save for post-F13 or for ongoing work
20:12:32 <mchua> I think one thing to point out about the Marketing FAD was that it's the first time we did a FAD remotely like it, afaik - so now we know better to expect at future such events.
20:12:36 <wonderer> +1
20:12:57 <rbergeron> stickster, i agree; I'm not sure what our meeting schedules will be looking like over the next few weeks, with all the beta and GA tasks coming up
20:13:10 <rbergeron> maybe we should consider a separate one-off meeting with anyone interested to prioritize things?
20:13:24 <mchua> So yes, calibrated against our guesses at deliverables beforehand, we did not do so well. But thinking that we could guess at what we'd do beforehand when we had no basis to plan this from may have been a bit silly.
20:13:34 <mchua> I am extremely pleased with how we improvised, and what we were able to do.
20:13:51 * rbergeron nods
20:13:52 <stickster> rbergeron: Yes, I think that would be a good idea.
20:14:02 <mchua> And like... I think it was spevack who pointed out, or maybe stickster - the real test of whether it was a good FAD will be the next 6 months of Marketing using what we've learned and made in the past 4 days.
20:14:03 <rbergeron> i think bringing in other people who are experts in each of the things that we talked about
20:14:09 <rbergeron> really opened our eyes as to the scope of things
20:14:13 <mchua> +1 to rbergeron's idea, btw
20:14:18 <rbergeron> I think at future FADs, if we are tackling big agenda items
20:14:23 <rbergeron> like "brand book" , etc.
20:14:23 <stickster> In a couple cases it made us realize that our goals were a little ambitious
20:14:33 <mchua> ambitious may even be an understatement :)
20:14:37 <stickster> mchua: :-)
20:14:40 <rbergeron> it would be a good idea to open up a dialogue with those expertise people to see what they think is more reasonable in terms of accomplishments.
20:14:45 <mchua> Yep.
20:15:08 <mchua> #info next time, when going for giant deliverables, talk with experts in that field who've made such deliverables before to help scope out the plan of action beforehand.
20:15:16 <rbergeron> #action add to future FAD ideas list (if we have that, i'll figure something out) - talk with experts about the things we want to accomplish for realisty check
20:16:13 <rbergeron> #action rbergeron to set up meeting after next tuesday marketing meeting for prioritizing task list, NOT a regular marketing meeting - will be a one-off.
20:16:20 <rbergeron> I think that wraps up marketing FAD stuff.
20:16:24 <rbergeron> yes?
20:16:26 <mchua> We may want to set a target date for the next FAD, but we don't have to do that now.
20:16:38 <mchua> (for instance if we want a FAD during the F14 cycle we may want to just say that and plan it later.)
20:16:44 <mchua> but I think that's rbergeron's call.
20:16:51 <mchua> since she'll be running the show then and all. ;)
20:16:52 <rbergeron> #action consider target date for next FAD... document somewhere. we should consider timing with cycle.
20:17:02 <rbergeron> #topic Feature profiles
20:17:20 <rbergeron> mchua, stickster, I know you guys went and had discussion on this - maybe one of you would like to brief everyone?
20:17:32 <stickster> rbergeron: Yes we did
20:17:42 <mchua> It's actually documented in a SOP.
20:17:44 <stickster> mchua took down the results -- let me see if I can find the page
20:17:46 <mchua> I'll pull up links, one moment.
20:18:01 <mchua> So, to follow the thread for people who want to find this page later on...
20:18:05 <mchua> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing#Release_deliverables
20:18:06 <mchua> leads to
20:18:18 <stickster> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:F13_in-depth_features
20:18:19 <mchua> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Feature_profiles
20:18:23 <mchua> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Feature_profiles
20:18:25 <stickster> oops, interrupted the flow, sorry mchua
20:18:26 <mchua> Yep, which is a redirect to
20:18:28 <rbergeron> can i just ask something?
20:18:30 <mchua> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:In-depth_features
20:18:32 <mchua> rbergeron: dooo it
20:18:36 <rbergeron> do we want to call them in-depth features or feature profiles?
20:18:38 <mchua> stickster: nah, you got the link right :)
20:18:47 <rbergeron> I think ... it might be good for consistency, particularly for newcomers
20:18:54 <rbergeron> it seems like it might be ambiguous
20:18:55 <rbergeron> :)
20:18:57 <mchua> rbergeron: Hm. It's better to pick one name, huh?
20:19:02 <mchua> Yeah, I think you're right.
20:19:03 <stickster> rbergeron: I've always called them "in-depth feature profiles."
20:19:04 <rbergeron> well. you know :) it's a thought
20:19:13 <stickster> They're not features, so "in-depth features" sounds confusin gto me.
20:19:19 * rbergeron nods
20:19:22 <mchua> I'll gladly do moves/renames/redirects as needed for whatever we #agree on.
20:19:26 <stickster> Unless you mean "feature" as in "featured text/article/blah"
20:19:28 <stickster> So
20:19:35 <mchua> Is that "in-depth feature profiles"? I have no objections.
20:19:43 <rbergeron> well, i'm talking about these items where we're going to be doing interviews and stuff
20:19:49 <mchua> Or just "feature profiles."
20:19:59 <stickster> mchua: Sure
20:20:02 * rbergeron is with stickster on in-depth features sounding confusing
20:20:11 <stickster> "Feature profiles" sounds beset.
20:20:13 <stickster> *best even.
20:20:16 * stickster shoots another typist
20:20:19 <mchua> is that #agreed?
20:20:27 <mchua> Then you can #action me to redirect the pages and I'll do that in a bit.
20:20:38 * rbergeron agrees
20:20:42 <wonderer> +1 @ in-depth feature profiles
20:20:50 <rbergeron> i think
20:20:54 <rbergeron> what was the decision?
20:20:56 <mchua> wonderer: you want the words 'in-depth' in there? is "feature profiles" ok?
20:21:02 * rbergeron facepalms and headdesks simultaneously
20:21:07 <mchua> rbergeron: I /think/ it's "feature profiles" - no "in-depth"
20:21:11 <mchua> let's make this simple.
20:21:19 <rbergeron> do you think if when we're saying features it sounds like it's exclusive of things like... spins?
20:21:21 <mchua> Any objections to "feature profiles"?
20:21:28 <wonderer> mchua: you are right feature profiles is ok and also fine.
20:21:34 <rbergeron> i don't care what we call it, just looking for consistency
20:21:39 <mchua> rbergeron: Nah, I don't think it sounds exclusive.
20:21:43 <rbergeron> we can call it bacon, the heart of the marketing message. :)
20:21:47 <rbergeron> just always call it bacon plz :)
20:21:48 <mchua> Anyway, it's just a name, doesn't restrict what we put in there.
20:22:02 <mchua> rbergeron: We have no objections, so
20:22:04 * rbergeron nods
20:22:07 <rbergeron> let's call it feature profiles.
20:22:09 <mchua> #agreed the name of the deliverable is "Feature profiles"
20:22:12 <wonderer> ok, bacon is finished.
20:22:13 <mchua> Wah-HAH!
20:22:26 <rbergeron> #action mchua to redirect wiki stuff for consistency on "feature profiles"
20:22:29 <mchua> Thank you.
20:22:30 <rbergeron> is that good?
20:22:32 <mchua> Yes.
20:22:33 <rbergeron> okay
20:22:36 <rbergeron> so back to the actual profiles
20:22:41 <mchua> Anyhoo, feature profiles, how they are made:
20:22:50 <mchua> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Feature_profiles_SOP
20:22:56 <mchua> is what happens in stickster 's brain when he's thinking about 'em
20:23:01 <mchua> and now it can happen in all our brains too :)
20:23:06 <mchua> we picked 4 for this round.
20:23:29 <mchua> (any questions about the criteria, btw? just shout them out inline, and stickster can respond to them, or I can make up answers)
20:23:30 <stickster> mchua: Nicely done!
20:23:32 <mchua> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:F13_in-depth_features
20:23:46 <mchua> In brief, they're:
20:23:47 <mchua> * python
20:23:49 <mchua> * hardware enablements
20:23:52 <mchua> * boot.fedoraproject.org
20:23:56 <mchua> * btrfs
20:24:05 <mchua> you can find the rationale in detail on the Feature Profiles page for F13.
20:24:10 <mchua> ...which will be a redirect shortly.
20:24:22 <rbergeron> so question: are these appealing to the... and i hate to start doing this, but
20:24:26 <rbergeron> the user base thing...
20:24:35 <mchua> rbergeron: Yes. That is, perhaps, a criteria that should be in the SOP.
20:24:48 <rbergeron> I really liked (and i may be biased here, since i did it) the "desktop enhancements" thing
20:24:50 <stickster> rbergeron: These basically run the spectrum so we can balance the difference audience
20:24:57 <stickster> rbergeron: Hardware enablements is basically that
20:24:57 <rbergeron> right
20:25:05 <stickster> *different     *sigh*
20:25:10 <mchua> I also really liked that talking point last cycle, for the record.
20:25:27 <stickster> rbergeron: It's all the hardware focused things that have happened on the Desktop, from free video drivers to auto-printer installation
20:25:30 <rbergeron> i mean i look at this list and i start thinking about my barrier to entry in terms of even doing an interview because coming up with a question list for some of these would be hard given my lack of technicality
20:25:35 <mchua> wait, "general productivity users" will care about "experimental 3D extended to free Nouveau driver"?
20:25:57 <wonderer> hello neville
20:25:57 <stickster> Yes. Because general productivity users also want things like 3D accelerated website bling.
20:25:59 <mchua> Neville! Hey, yn1v! Back home?
20:26:07 <stickster> Direct effects.
20:26:18 <mchua> stickster: Point taken.
20:26:20 <stickster> Also it's important for the future because GNOME 3.x interface will leverage compositing (i.e. 3D)
20:26:20 <yn1v> Yes, I am back home. Lot of pending work :(
20:26:28 <rbergeron> stickster: so maybe when we're doing this list of stuff, we should maybe specify... what level of technicality we want in terms of the interview
20:26:38 <mchua> yn1v: I think we're all feeling that way - it's the post-FAD "ZOMG my backlog!" reaction.
20:26:40 <rbergeron> general audience, hard-core engineer, sysadmin, etc
20:27:00 * rbergeron finished reading hardware enablements and stickster is right - it's definitely more end-user focused
20:27:03 <yn1v> I just pop to said that I am fine, but I have to run to other work meeting... bye
20:27:17 <mchua> Well, lemme just say that I'm going to be trying to get feature profiles written by Allegheny college freshmen with no prior exposure to Fedora.
20:27:20 <stickster> In terms of technical spectrum
20:27:24 * rbergeron nods
20:27:25 <wonderer> as mentioned in my talk. try to avoid in-depth technical stuff.
20:27:30 <mchua> They may not be *these* feature profiles, but they'll be similar levels of depth of deliverable.
20:27:38 <stickster> I think the feature profiles go, from normal user to uebergeek:
20:27:41 <mchua> (and they may be these feature profiles if nobody's picked them up in a week.)
20:27:45 <stickster> 1. Desktop hardware enablement features
20:27:47 <stickster> 2. Python
20:27:50 <stickster> 3. boot.fp.o
20:27:52 <stickster> 4. btrfs
20:27:54 <mchua> yn1v: Thanks for popping your head in - glad you made it home safely!
20:27:58 <mchua> yn1v: and good luck with that backlog.
20:28:03 <stickster> Maybe 2 & 3 are about the same level of geekitude.
20:28:15 <mchua> Different types of geekitude, but yeah, I'd say same level.
20:28:31 <stickster> right on
20:28:47 <wonderer> stickster: no. the feature profiles are marketing and PR material. it should not be for the uebergeeks, because they RTFM and not the target audience for marketing as we want it at this point. we can not do PR for ALL target audience.
20:28:59 <rbergeron> stickster: i know you've done yours as a podcast before.
20:29:14 <mchua> I am hoping that hitting the freshmen (next week is spring break, so it's the week after) with this will fill in any of our worries of "but... if you're not an ubergeek, you will not grok!" - but that is not the only gamble we should make.
20:29:18 <rbergeron> do we want to commit to trying to do some of these as podcast formats - which ones might translate well in that medium, if that is the case?
20:29:38 * mchua a fan of trying different forms of media for feature profiles, obviously can't help with the podcast one ;)
20:29:41 <rbergeron> well podcast first, then translated
20:29:49 <rbergeron> to wiki / print / etc
20:29:56 <stickster> I think the btrfs would lend itself to a podcast
20:29:59 * mchua a *huge* fan of transcription
20:30:14 <rbergeron> stickster: because you could do it as a story?
20:30:16 <ke4qqq> is someone interested in talking about these on podcast(s)?
20:30:19 <stickster> The higher bandwidth lends itself to explanation for people who are TL;DR types
20:30:24 <wonderer> mchua: how about your zi8 ? with a external mic on it it would be good forvidcasting and also podcasting I guess.
20:30:31 * ke4qqq can arrange some of that
20:30:41 <mchua> I'd be happy to physically walk into the OLPC office with recording equipment for the btrfs (whatever)cast.
20:30:42 <stickster> ke4qqq: I bet you Val Aurora would love to do something on btrfs
20:30:42 <rbergeron> ke4qqq: stickster did one as a podcast last time. i'm not sure how many people actually listened to the podcast, that would be an interesting statistic
20:30:51 <stickster> rbergeron: I may be able to find that out
20:31:00 <mchua> Ooo, Val Aurora == supercool
20:31:13 <ke4qqq> stickster: I'll ping her - and see if I can get her on TLLTS or LLL podcast
20:31:24 <rbergeron> stickster: would be good to know. if it's not bringing people... it might be not so priority, but if it got a lot of traction / feedback / whatever - we might consider putting in more effort to do more
20:31:42 <stickster> rbergeron: That's a 5-minute task I think
20:31:45 <rbergeron> also, we have no spin profiles listed here as possibilities
20:31:47 <stickster> rbergeron: Let me go gather the #'s
20:31:51 <stickster> Carry on
20:31:58 <wonderer> please have in mind: if you do a podcast, do a podcast. if you want to prouce for print, produce for print. BUT we can not make ONE bid videorecording thing and prduce out of that also print and photo and text and so on. these are different media with different kind of producing ques.
20:32:09 <rbergeron> #action stickster to look into how much traction / hits podcast feature profile from last cycle got
20:32:19 <mchua> So, I don't want to spend all our time today on feature profiles.
20:32:22 <mchua> We have until March 30 to get them done.
20:32:24 <mchua> There are four.
20:32:27 <rbergeron> #action determine whether it is bringing people in / really popular
20:32:35 <rbergeron> okay, who's doing what
20:32:58 <rbergeron> i'll do the HW enablements, since that's up my ummm
20:33:04 <rbergeron> unless someone else wants it.
20:33:09 <mchua> Take it. :)
20:33:13 <rbergeron> it's approaching my capabilities :)
20:33:24 <rbergeron> #action robyn to take HW enablements feature profile
20:33:38 <rbergeron> does anyone have a good idea of who to talk to?
20:33:38 <mchua> I will take whichever is the last one that remains.
20:33:53 <mchua> ...although I suspect I may do best with python.
20:34:10 <mchua> Since I used to do that sort of thing a bit. Development, I mean. Very little, but enough.
20:34:14 <mchua> Heck, I'll just take that.
20:34:23 <mchua> #action mchua to take python feature profile
20:34:33 <rbergeron> that leaves 2; btrfs, and boot.fp.o
20:34:47 <mchua> wonderer, would you like to take one of those?
20:34:52 <rbergeron> i could do the boot one, I think, with a little guidance, if needed
20:35:03 <mchua> wonderer: maybe in a non-text format? You do podcasts already, so. :)
20:35:46 <mchua> wonderer: you could even do it in german and then we could translate it - that would be a neat workflow thing to try for this round
20:35:53 <wonderer> mchua: no, sorry. withpresskit, presskit template and pressrelease writing I will be good with the work for next days/weeks.
20:35:57 <mchua> Ah right, press kit
20:36:01 * rbergeron nods
20:36:14 <mchua> Ok, it's on my plate to make sure these get written, so I'm going to call for help on Planet, lists, etc.
20:36:22 <wonderer> I do not want to to to much and at the end nothig is finished.
20:36:26 <mchua> #action mchua find remaining feature profiles (boot.fp.o, btrfs) writers.
20:36:39 <mchua> wonderer: Yep, appreciated. :) thanks for reminding me about the massive amt of stuff on your plate.
20:36:57 <mchua> So, obviously, the SOP for feature profiles also needs... some love.
20:37:10 <mchua> so I would like to have as much convo and thinking-out-loud of the writing of these feature profiles on-list as possible
20:37:15 <mchua> so I can harvest it for that SOP.
20:37:21 <stickster> mchua: I can do boot.fp.o
20:37:29 <rbergeron> i can take boot.fp.o, i think, if nobody else wants it
20:37:31 <rbergeron> oh
20:37:31 <mchua> #note please think-out-loud about your feature profiles on the list, for later harvesting for SOP
20:37:32 <rbergeron> or stickster
20:37:44 <wonderer> at this point we can also (everyone of us) think about how we want to structurize the work we had to do. I think wiki is  agood startingpoint, but has no projectmanagement and workflow inbuilds...
20:37:45 <mchua> #action stickster to take boot.fedoraproject.org feature profile
20:37:45 <stickster> ke4qqq: Were you serious about doing a btrfs feature?
20:37:50 <wonderer> just as a sidenote
20:38:02 <rbergeron> i could tackle btrfs, possibly, not sure if i could do a good job with it, but i do have someone at my house i can pick for technical help with formulating questions at least who knows about filesystems
20:38:07 <ke4qqq> stickster: if val wants to do it, I'll def. get her the audience to do it with
20:38:11 <rbergeron> SWEET
20:38:17 * rbergeron not doing btrfs
20:38:20 <ke4qqq> if she doesn't I am happy to get the audience for someone else or myself
20:38:22 <mchua> ke4qqq: so, btrfs and probably in podcast form?
20:38:32 <stickster> ke4qqq: When you say "get the audience"...
20:38:33 <stickster> ?
20:38:46 <ke4qqq> mchua: so - I have lots of existing podcast friends - like the Linux Link Tech show, etc
20:38:56 <ke4qqq> and they'll love to do that kinda thing
20:39:05 <ke4qqq> talk to a Val Henson for an hour or two
20:39:11 <stickster> ke4qqq: Ah, I think our MO has been to do the recording here so that we can accompany it with a PR snap from RH
20:39:13 <ke4qqq> about something cutting edge like btrfs
20:39:28 <stickster> btrfs is the kind of feature where we could get that help
20:39:36 <mchua> ke4qqq: would they release the interview audio file under BY-SA?
20:39:43 <mchua> stickster: cause then we could remix it for whatever
20:39:46 <ke4qqq> mchua: think it's cc-by
20:39:51 <mchua> ke4qqq: that works too!
20:40:01 <mchua> I mean, just not the NC clause is all
20:40:04 <stickster> right
20:40:18 <ke4qqq> yeah - none of them care about the nc clause - they do it as a hobby
20:40:20 <mchua> anyway, perhaps we should put ke4qqq down for point and figure out the rest as we go along
20:40:25 <stickster> mchua: ke4qqq: rbergeron: If we want to do that, let's make sure that RH can build press around it too regardless of the venue where it's created
20:40:30 <mchua> +1
20:40:40 * rbergeron nods
20:40:51 <mchua> it's also good practice for us in terms of being able to respond to the ecosystem of marketing + pr created by not-us.
20:41:09 <mchua> just like we do in the code ecosystem. we're a good downstream as well as a good upstream. and... such.
20:41:23 <rbergeron> so... ke4qqq, are you on board with running with this or figuring out where it needs to go
20:41:33 <ke4qqq> someone action me to send some initial emails
20:41:42 <ke4qqq> and we'll figure it out from there
20:41:52 <rbergeron> are you interested in conducting the actual interviews? or you're talking about maybe someone else doing that part
20:42:11 <rbergeron> #action ke4qqq to send initial mails on podcast of btrfs feature profile
20:42:20 <rbergeron> i'm just trying to figure out the flow of "later on"
20:42:24 <ke4qqq> no, I don't have the following quite honestly - there are people out there who do - but we'll figure it out
20:42:34 <rbergeron> okay
20:42:51 <rbergeron> #action ke4qqq and rbergeron to figure out the rest of the btrfs process
20:43:05 <rbergeron> kosher?
20:43:07 <mchua> Kosher.
20:43:15 <ke4qqq> yep
20:43:16 * mchua has nothing further on talking points
20:43:22 <rbergeron> spins profiles???
20:43:24 <rbergeron> we don't want to do that?
20:43:33 <rbergeron> do we want them to be empowered to do their own?
20:43:36 <mchua> Yes.
20:43:40 <mchua> I don't want to promise we're going to do that work.
20:43:52 <mchua> I do want to extend an invitation to spins to use our talking points and feature profiles SOPs to make their own.
20:44:04 <mchua> Ryan did it for KDE, for instance (rock on, rrix)
20:44:11 <rbergeron> i'm sure rrix would jump on doing it
20:44:12 <rbergeron> yes
20:44:14 <rbergeron> that exactly
20:44:20 <rbergeron> okay.
20:44:27 <rbergeron> mchua: do you want to do that invitation?
20:44:31 <mchua> So someone could take an action to email spins owners about that extending exactly that invita...
20:44:34 <rbergeron> i can pick it up if necessary
20:44:35 <mchua> ...sure, I can do it.
20:44:41 <mchua> rbergeron: if you could, actually, that would be awesome.
20:44:44 * rbergeron brain synchronizes with mchua
20:44:51 <mchua> I'm just looking at my pile o' FAD cleanup work and going "oh... boy."
20:44:59 <rbergeron> yeah, me too
20:45:06 <rbergeron> but i'm a bit waiting on you, so i can take that on in the interim
20:45:11 * mchua needs to clean up the SOPs and will do so faster if someone's blocking on her to do that in order to send out that email ;)
20:45:25 <rbergeron> #action rbergeron to invite spin groups to use SOPs to do their own feature profiles, talking points, etc.
20:45:34 <rbergeron> are they just sigs? with mailing lists?
20:45:43 <mchua> #action mchua clean up talking points and feature profiles SOPs so that spin groups can do exactly that
20:45:48 * rbergeron looks for comprehensive list of active spins somewhere
20:46:10 <mchua> #info we need an easy way to find out where to contact spins - if that's not spins.fedoraproject.org, it should be
20:46:12 <rbergeron> #link http://spins.fedoraproject.org/
20:46:13 <mchua> rbergeron: ^^
20:46:15 <rbergeron> WOW
20:46:18 <rbergeron> i've never seen this page
20:46:25 <mchua> rbergeron: I think our brains are just in sync today.
20:46:28 <rbergeron> this is like... booteaful
20:46:30 <mchua> hey, spevack!
20:46:39 <rbergeron> hi spevack, how goes your plowing today
20:46:39 <mchua> rbergeron: Yeah, it got redesigned last cycle :) it is gorgeous
20:46:48 <mchua> mizmo == teh rox0r
20:46:55 <rbergeron> mchua: it's terrible that i'm in marketing and i don't even know about this thing we should be marketing
20:46:57 <stickster> Yup, that was step 1 in the website beautification process.
20:47:10 <mchua> rbergeron: that's not a bug with you, btw.
20:47:14 <stickster> rbergeron: edumacation is here: http://spins.fedoraproject.org/about
20:47:30 <rbergeron> we should do a story about how the awesome story of spins tackling the spins.fp.o redesign
20:47:33 <mchua> it's probably a bug in intra-fedora communication-ness.
20:47:40 <mchua> #idea spins.fp.o redesign profile story
20:47:40 <spevack> I've been plowing through meetings all day rbergeron
20:47:50 <rbergeron> we should always be doing stories about things we do that are REALLY awesome, but that's just a side thought
20:47:55 <mchua> Yep.
20:48:02 * mchua will try to deploy allegheny minions on this sort of thing
20:48:06 <rbergeron> that's part of the "continuous stories / press materials" thing.
20:48:16 <mchua> speaking of which, can haz last agenda item so you folks can help me assign work to college kids? ;)
20:48:19 <rbergeron> we should have a place for people to actually say, I did something awesome, plz interview me.
20:48:20 <mchua> we have... minions.
20:48:23 <rbergeron> yes, mchua, take it away.
20:48:26 <rbergeron> i think we're wrapped up.
20:48:32 <mchua> #topic Give Work To People, Yay
20:48:36 <rbergeron> spevack: your ribbon is in the mail for your hard work
20:48:41 <mchua> Okay, so I'm at Allegheny College right now.
20:48:53 <mchua> Note that the stuff I'm saying and the things we're coming up here are generic New Marketing Contributor Tasks
20:48:57 <mchua> not specific to the Allegheny studnets
20:49:05 <mchua> but we've got a bunch of 'em - 40 to be exact
20:49:24 <mchua> and their professors (2, one art and one CS) want them to get involved in FOSS communities for the remainder of the semester
20:49:34 <mchua> conveniently, their semester ends shortly after the F13 release date
20:49:37 <ke4qqq> mchua: will they be joining us on IRC? and mailing lists?
20:49:41 <mchua> ke4qqq: Yes indeed.
20:49:45 <ke4qqq> awesome
20:49:47 <mchua> they will be evaluated on how much the participate in the community.
20:49:48 <rbergeron> sweet
20:49:56 <rbergeron> are they going to be filling out the "who i am " template :)
20:50:08 <mchua> they will get feedback on the quality of their work, but their evaluation will be based on whether they did things "the open source way"
20:50:11 <mchua> rbergeron: oh yes.
20:50:14 <mchua> Oh yes indeed.
20:50:19 <mchua> Some may come to marketing and some may come to design.
20:50:23 <mchua> But mostly those two.
20:50:31 <mchua> So, we came up with some ideas at the FAD
20:50:34 <mchua> #link http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-fad/2010-03-14/fedora-fad.2010-03-14-13.41.html
20:50:47 <mchua> #info mchua looking for good "new contributor" tasks for college students to do
20:51:00 <mchua> so we have these students from... starting the monday after next
20:51:17 <mchua> next week is spring break, and I am hanging out with the profs all next week to plot and get *them* up to speed on things
20:51:20 <mchua> so they'll be hitting the lists, etc
20:51:28 <mchua> (the profs, I mean)
20:51:33 <mchua> until F13 release
20:51:38 <mchua> they are excited
20:51:55 <mchua> they have no idea what we do, so there will be a lot of cleaning-up-of-Marketing-stuff to make it comprehensible to new contribs
20:51:59 <mchua> which is good
20:52:09 <mchua> But. Anyway. Ideas for work they could do, PLZ CAN HAZ.
20:52:15 <mchua> aaaand braindump.... GO!
20:52:19 <mchua> (or questions, if applicable)
20:52:25 * mchua sits back and waits for the tasks to roll in
20:52:26 <rbergeron> oh boy.
20:52:31 <rbergeron> ummmmmm
20:52:49 * rbergeron thinks on her feet and wishes she had gobby open
20:53:01 <rbergeron> didn't we identify some tasks at the FAD as possibilities here?
20:53:35 <mchua> yep
20:53:44 <mchua> #link http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-fad/2010-03-14/fedora-fad.2010-03-14-13.41.html
20:53:51 <rbergeron> thank u
20:53:54 <mchua> (whoops, wait, I did that earlier. and then I flooded the screen with text.)
20:54:12 <rbergeron> so maybe first thing we can do
20:54:15 <mchua> I'm going to be getting them to write things that look /like/ feature profiles, but obviously on different things.
20:54:21 <rbergeron> maybe we can have a gobby or wiki page of wiki pages that need to get cleaned up
20:54:27 <rbergeron> get the students familiarized with wiki
20:54:42 <rbergeron> if you notice that some kids are quicker on the wiki than others, maybe we can move them up to more technical tasks?
20:54:42 <mchua> #idea get students to write feature profile esque things
20:54:45 * stickster sees his two suggestions in that list, which were identifying key wiki pages, making sure their content was correct, and then cleaning and SEO'ing them if possible
20:54:46 <mchua> #idea get students to do wiki cleanup
20:54:57 <mchua> yep.
20:55:00 <stickster> and usability tests via any available mechanism
20:55:02 <rbergeron> do tasks that can separate maybe the more technical from the more ... creative
20:55:12 <mchua> So the other cool thing I found out today is that a decent portion of the students are in the art vein.
20:55:16 <rbergeron> NICE
20:55:31 <mchua> so things like... look at this messaging we've done in the past and analyze it, cross-compare with downloads stats, how consistent has our message been over time
20:55:37 <rbergeron> oh, you have like / don't like first impressions
20:55:39 <mchua> as well as "help design make f13 deliverables"
20:55:44 <rbergeron> their first impressions of what?
20:55:47 <rbergeron> exactly?
20:55:59 <mchua> the profs are really gunning for this "critical analysis" thing - iow, "make these students do research"
20:56:02 <rbergeron> are they going to do that individually or... in groups
20:56:06 <rbergeron> okay
20:56:08 <mchua> rbergeron: anything we want ;)
20:56:11 <rbergeron> like... technical research?
20:56:19 <rbergeron> well, it would be interesting like
20:56:26 <rbergeron> i hate to segregate the kids by technicality
20:56:36 <rbergeron> but it would be interesting to see what is appealing to different types of mindsets
20:56:45 <rbergeron> what is appealing to the art kids vs. the writers vs. the coder types
20:56:49 <mchua> rbergeron: market research, analysis of past marketing efforts, design efforts, PR deliverables, strategy... branding...
20:56:49 <rbergeron> or alternately
20:56:51 * stickster is running up against a hard stop in a few minutes
20:56:53 <rbergeron> get a good balance of each
20:56:57 <rbergeron> into groups
20:57:02 <mchua> yeah, to some extent we won't know 'till they all arrive and introduce themselves.
20:57:05 <rbergeron> okay, let's do this, since we're at a wall
20:57:14 <mchua> but I wanted to check if we had any immediate "YES! THEY SHOULD DO X!" things
20:57:18 <rbergeron> specific items we want them to definitely do, list now
20:57:19 <mchua> but it sounds like we've gotten that list out.
20:57:21 * mchua nods.
20:57:29 <rbergeron> mchua and i can chat for 30 min. and try and maybe organize it a bit more post-meeting
20:57:33 <mchua> and I'm sure we'll improvise more later as the students actually come along.
20:57:38 <rbergeron> mchua: can we #info or #action that list
20:57:42 * mchua has a hard meeting stop in 3m too.
20:57:48 <rbergeron> i want to make sure we're NOT overwhelming them
20:57:54 <rbergeron> that's a bad intro to open source
20:57:56 <mchua> rbergeron: I'd rather wait a week on that so we'll have the profs on board as well.
20:58:01 <mchua> rbergeron: on the 30m brainstorm, I mean.
20:58:05 <rbergeron> "open source: where you can easily bite off more than you can chew" should not be their impression
20:58:08 <rbergeron> mchua: sounds good
20:58:12 <mchua> rbergeron: agreed on the not overwhelming part though.
20:58:15 * mchua done.
20:58:23 <rbergeron> although we can chat anyway, if you're interested about some different ideas if you want to have some stuff laid out for the profs
20:58:37 <rbergeron> freshman, right?
20:58:43 <rbergeron> s/man/men
20:58:47 <rbergeron> ok
20:58:56 <rbergeron> umm... do we have any results here
20:59:13 <rbergeron> #info list of allegheny students stuff is captured on link here
20:59:15 <mchua> Well, we have a slightly longer list than we did last time.
20:59:19 <rbergeron> #link http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-fad/2010-03-14/fedora-fad.2010-03-14-13.41.html
20:59:25 <rbergeron> extra items?
20:59:28 <mchua> #action mchua get Allegheny profs into Marketing and Design teams respectively
20:59:30 <rbergeron> put them in #info real quick
20:59:33 <mchua> I think that ought to do it.
20:59:34 <rbergeron> does anyone else have anything to cover today
20:59:35 * mchua has nothing more.
20:59:43 * rbergeron has a crapton of stuff to plow through after the meeting
20:59:52 * wonderer tired...
21:00:01 * rbergeron is going to write a statistics page on how many times she can work the word plow into a meeting, hah
21:00:21 <wonderer> +1 :-)
21:00:29 <rbergeron> #action robyn to dump statistics brainstorm from dinnertime at FAD into [[statistics 2.0]]
21:00:35 <rbergeron> just so i remember
21:00:38 <rbergeron> and ke4qqq doesn't beat me
21:00:49 * mchua has massive list to plow through after the meeting, starting with redirecting feature profiles
21:00:54 * rbergeron has a lot of random crackberry fad notes to self
21:01:03 <rbergeron> from dinnertimes and waffle hauses with mchua and rrix
21:01:11 <rbergeron> anyone else?
21:01:15 <rbergeron> okay
21:01:17 <rbergeron> 5......
21:01:20 <rbergeron> 4......
21:01:23 <rbergeron> 3.....
21:01:23 <mchua> (thank you for running the meeting, rbergeron!)
21:01:30 <rbergeron> you're welcome! practice is good.
21:01:30 * mchua straps on jetpack
21:01:32 <rbergeron> 2....
21:01:36 <rbergeron> ROCK IT
21:01:41 <mchua> HOOYAH
21:01:42 <rbergeron> #3ndmeeting
21:01:46 <rbergeron> oh, boy.
21:01:50 * wonderer dancing under the disco ball
21:01:50 <rbergeron> #endmeeting