fedora-meeting-1
LOGS
18:02:55 <kital> #startmeeting
18:02:56 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Feb  8 18:02:55 2010 UTC.  The chair is kital. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:02:57 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:03:07 <kital> #chair susmit
18:03:08 <zodbot> Current chairs: kital susmit
18:03:46 <kital> #roll call
18:03:51 <susmit> .fas susmit
18:03:52 <zodbot> susmit: susmit 'Susmit Shannigrahi' <thinklinux.ssh@gmail.com> - susmitshannigrahi 'Susmit Shannigrahi' <shannigrahi.susmit@gmail.com> - ssh 'Susmit Shannigrahi' <susmit.shannigrahi@gmail.com>
18:03:56 <kital> #topic roll call
18:03:58 <kital> sory
18:04:03 <kital> Joerg Simon
18:04:08 <ke4qqq> David Nalley
18:04:12 <tatica> MAria Leandro
18:04:16 <susmit> Susmit Shannigrahi
18:04:33 <kital> #chair tatica
18:04:33 <zodbot> Current chairs: kital susmit tatica
18:04:35 <cwickert> Christoph Wickert
18:04:48 <fugolini> Francesco Ugolini
18:05:04 <inode0> John Rose
18:05:07 <n4is3n> alzea arafat
18:05:43 <kital> great to see you n4is3n
18:06:15 <kital> thanks all for comming
18:06:21 <n4is3n> thanks Joerg... nice to see you too bro :D
18:06:41 <lfoppiano> hi all
18:06:50 <kital> today we have the first famsco-townhall-meeting
18:07:58 <lfoppiano> ah ok :)
18:08:02 <lfoppiano> see you there then
18:08:03 <kital> people have the oppotunity to join us on all our meetings but this time we will use the whole time for communication with all of you
18:08:27 <kital> no lfoppiano you should stay ;)
18:08:38 <kital> #topic agenda
18:08:50 <lfoppiano> ok
18:08:55 <n4is3n> ok i'm listening...
18:08:58 <kital> Any discussion around the FAmSCo_report_2010-01.
18:09:04 <kital> How are regional meetings going?
18:09:10 <kital> What is the one thing that you would like to fix in Ambassadors, either regionally or at a global level?
18:09:15 <kital> Does the new mentoring process work out or are the guidelines or the mentors to strict?
18:09:21 <kital> What do you think about opening FAmSCo trac for more transparency? --Cwickert 17:34, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
18:09:26 <kital> Are all ambassadors and their projects are supported properly? --Cwickert 17:34, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
18:09:34 <kital> Is there is enough commitment from Red Hat? --Cwickert 17:34, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
18:10:22 <kital> #topic Any discussion around the FAmSCo_report_2010-01
18:10:48 <kital> famsco decided that we from now on
18:10:52 * inode0 thinks the report structure and substance is brilliant and really helps us understand what is happening
18:11:00 <kital> deliver a monthly report for more transparency
18:11:23 <kital> the first was delivered last week https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAmSCo_report_2010-01
18:11:24 * fugolini likes it!
18:11:31 <kital> thanks inode0 ;)
18:11:57 <kital> all this was mostly the work of susmit and max
18:11:59 * ke4qqq admits he was hesitant at the idea at first - but very happy with the result - it's concentrating info from many disparate points - I particularly found the budget stuff to be fascinating.
18:12:12 <kital> we others just submitted our points for adding it
18:13:03 <kital> is there more what you like to see in there?
18:13:13 <susmit> that reminds me..we should find a place to host the html reports..I am going to add that to the next meeting agenda.
18:13:46 <kital> #action susmit find a place to host the html reports
18:14:09 <kital> next topic?
18:14:15 <kital> 3
18:14:17 <kital> 2
18:14:32 <kital> 1
18:14:39 <kital> #topic #How are regional meetings going?
18:15:04 <tatica> !
18:15:08 <kital> tatica:
18:16:00 <tatica> I'll like to say to this point that LATAM has this month 4 mentoring meetings to help and guide the new ambassadors and contributors
18:16:39 <cwickert> ?
18:16:43 <inode0> ?
18:16:58 <kital> cwickert:
18:17:12 <kital> inode0: is next after cwickert
18:17:29 <cwickert> sorry, my question is still on the previous item. is html really necessary? why not use the wiki?
18:17:41 <tatica> and I will like to add some inter-region meetings
18:17:46 <tatica> eof
18:17:56 <kital> thanks tatica -
18:18:49 <kital> cwickert: we discussed it during the last famsco meeting - there are certain arguments pro and contra
18:19:34 <kital> and i asume we have to discuss it further in the next meeting  - very import for us was also to know that you like the structure and the content
18:19:36 * cwickert thinks the first report looked great, but FAmSCo should focus on the content, not the looks
18:20:27 <susmit> cwickert, what if we focus on both? :)
18:20:32 <lfoppiano> +1
18:20:35 <n4is3n> if temporary, is better separated from the wiki. easier to find
18:21:02 * inode0 will read it on the wiki most likely
18:21:18 <cwickert> susmit, the word "focus" includes that you pick a preference
18:21:38 <kital> i like pretty things and as long as susmit volunteers to spend time on creating it and it does not slow us down i think it is grat
18:21:46 <inode0> once format is settled it won't be a focus at all, so this will go away
18:21:47 <kital> s/grat/great
18:22:42 <cwickert> ok, question answered, thanks
18:22:46 <susmit> cwickert, at the end of the term, we will create a collated version of all the reports. it will come handy then.
18:22:54 <kital> #action kital put html-report pro contra decission on the agenda
18:23:14 <kital> we are at regional meetings
18:23:23 <RodrigoPadula> !
18:23:27 <kital> RodrigoPadula:
18:23:32 <RodrigoPadula> Hello guys
18:23:39 <kital> hello RodrigoPadula
18:23:40 <n4is3n> hello bro :)
18:23:56 <RodrigoPadula> I had some conversations with latam guys about meetings
18:24:08 <RodrigoPadula> mainly with guys from Chile to organize the FUDCon Latam
18:24:26 <RodrigoPadula> a lot of people are in vacations here during all february
18:24:50 <RodrigoPadula> so, I'm thinking to start and schedule meetings next month
18:24:55 <RodrigoPadula> tatica, ok ?
18:25:05 <RodrigoPadula> tatica, do you have comments about ?
18:25:07 <RodrigoPadula> eof
18:25:12 <kital> EMEA
18:25:19 <tatica> we are already working, so I guess you only have to check the list
18:25:19 <kital> http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2010-01-27/fedora-meeting.2010-01-27-20.01.html
18:25:20 <tatica> :)
18:25:22 <tatica> eof
18:25:41 <RodrigoPadula> tatica, yes, but to organize local meetings with more people
18:25:46 <RodrigoPadula> we have to schedule for next month
18:25:55 <tatica> RodrigoPadula, nop
18:26:01 <kital> meetings are led regularly with good and healthy discussions
18:26:09 <tatica> only chile and argentina are on february vacations (afaik)
18:26:18 <tatica> but
18:26:19 <RodrigoPadula> tatica, brasil too
18:26:21 <tatica> what we can di
18:26:23 <tatica> *do
18:26:34 <tatica> is to separate the task and work even better
18:26:34 <kital> nothing special to add to regional meetings for emea - as long as you have not question to emea
18:26:44 <RodrigoPadula> this 3 countries are the latam countries with more number of ambassadors
18:26:52 <tatica> I'm helping on guidance, and you have a lot of work fudcon-chile
18:27:22 <tatica> so I guess we can make a squedule (I don't know how it writes) and help everyone
18:27:23 <RodrigoPadula> tatica, I know and as I told, we I cant schedule meeting with the ambassadors from Chile this month
18:27:31 * inode0 still has a question about tatica's mentoring meetings which can wait for the mentoring topic
18:27:41 <kital> inode0: move on
18:28:00 <tatica> RodrigoPadula, sure. But I can't help too much like with fudcon-chile
18:28:17 <tatica> I rather to focus on help new people to find groups to help
18:28:26 <tatica> RodrigoPadula, what do you think of that?
18:28:32 <RodrigoPadula> tatica, dont worry about that, I 'm talking about general metings
18:28:50 <tatica> oh, ok I though you talk about chile and fudcon
18:28:53 <tatica> my mistake
18:28:54 <inode0> ?
18:29:01 <tatica> inode0, you have a question?
18:29:04 <kital> sorry tatica RodrigoPadula can you stop for a moment
18:29:09 <RodrigoPadula> eof
18:29:13 <inode0> this discussion doesn't seem to involve non-famsco members
18:29:25 <susmit> inode0, +1
18:29:29 <RodrigoPadula> we will finish this discussion in our latam list, will be better
18:29:49 <kital> sorry for not giving this topic a better structure
18:29:52 <RodrigoPadula> to choose the best date/hour!
18:30:03 <kital> we had latam
18:30:22 <kital> inode0: please ask you question
18:30:38 <kital> s/you/your
18:30:59 <inode0> One of the things I'm having trouble with is mentoring and I'd like to know more about the structure of tatica's mentoring meetings?
18:31:10 <inode0> Do they have a group of mentors?
18:31:23 <inode0> Or one mentor and a group of new people?
18:31:44 <tatica> nop, we in latam don't use the name "mentor" so much
18:31:58 <kital> so it is more like a classroom?
18:32:17 <tatica> so what we do (and what I'm doing since this week) is to get to small meetings with people interested to help and guide them to get a goal in less than a week
18:32:18 <tatica> yes
18:32:29 <tatica> so we are happy with their performance... but most important
18:32:45 <tatica> they can see a quick help that is truly need and get more excited about help
18:32:50 <inode0> ok, so this is not related to the formal ambassador mentoring process?!
18:33:16 <tatica> only for ambassadors
18:33:22 <tatica> but
18:33:28 <tatica> like RodrigoPadula said
18:33:53 <tatica> we are also interested on make ambassadors and user to become contributors, not only attending and spread fedora, but also making it better
18:34:06 <RodrigoPadula> tatica, +1
18:34:07 <inode0> ok, thank you
18:34:08 <tatica> that's why gomix create rpmdev, I create the latam design team and do on
18:34:21 <sankarshan> ?
18:34:23 <tatica> the ambassadors also have to give an example helping those new contributors
18:34:25 <tatica> eof
18:34:28 <RodrigoPadula> tatica, are you logging this meetings or are you doing 1:1 meetings like me ?
18:34:41 <kital> inode0: mentors are free to choose how to teach people - if they do it with a mentoring meeting on irc - sounds cool
18:34:44 <tatica> log
18:34:56 <RodrigoPadula> tatica, 1:1 ?
18:35:03 <inode0> kital: I'll come back in the mentoring agenda topic to that
18:35:09 <tatica> RodrigoPadula, general meetings, the first was this saturday, next will be 28-feb
18:35:18 <tatica> (I think.. I have to search the log)
18:35:46 <kital> i would say we move to the next topic - sorry for NA and APAC it is my fault
18:35:47 <tatica> RodrigoPadula, I made the first test with venezuela, colombia and peru and was fantastic, now I will do it with latam
18:35:57 <tatica> RodrigoPadula, was just a try that works :D
18:35:59 <tatica> eof
18:36:00 <RodrigoPadula> why are you not annuncing this meetings in the latam list ?
18:36:02 <inode0> NA meetings are going well as far as I know
18:36:03 <RodrigoPadula> ahh ok!
18:36:05 <kital> i had give this topic a better structure
18:36:10 <sankarshan> ?
18:36:13 <kital> sankarshan:
18:36:48 <lfoppiano> sorry guys I lost myself for a while
18:36:50 * sankarshan wanted to know if there was a plan to do a survey amongst the mentors with the aim of finding out what is working and, whether tweaks are required to the mentoring process/flow
18:37:07 <kital> yes sankarshan i have this topic!
18:37:13 <ke4qqq> sankarshan: kital and others and have discussed that
18:37:24 <kital> sankarshan: i still work on it
18:37:34 <sankarshan> thank you kital and ke4qqq, I must have missed it. My mistake
18:37:45 <kital> sankarshan: ;)
18:38:17 <ke4qqq> sankarshan: do you see things that need to be changed with the process?
18:38:25 <kital> for the next topic i want to ask you - if you want to answer this question just do it with 3 lines!
18:38:40 <kital> #topic What is the one thing that you would like to fix in Ambassadors, either regionally or at a global level?
18:39:25 <fugolini> Booth etiquette (and I'm one that in the past didn't respect it, mea culpa)
18:39:30 <n4is3n> !
18:39:32 <n4is3n> both
18:39:37 <lfoppiano> !
18:39:43 <fugolini> sorry
18:39:45 <fugolini> !
18:39:51 <kital> n4is3n then lfoppiano
18:40:07 <n4is3n> i think both of it
18:40:23 <sankarshan> Creating metrics of measurements of what Ambassadors are doing so as to enable a more detail health-check of the program itself and, analyze the strengths and shortcomings of the individual Ambassadors.
18:40:34 <kital> #  more transparency for the work that is done by FAmSCo
18:40:34 <kital> # further - enhance Fedora´s presence in underrepresented Regions - concrete: a translation marathon in Kyrgyzstan in 2010 and more focus on Africa!
18:40:38 <kital> # further - improve the Membership and regional Mentoring Process
18:40:38 <lfoppiano> ehm, the protocol?
18:41:01 <kital> n4is3n: go ahead
18:41:49 <n4is3n> starting from regional is better . May conduct direct meeting ;)
18:41:55 * tatica ask: is anyone from africa in here?
18:42:55 <kital> people please read the topic - there is someone who asks us as the famsco members "What is the one thing that you would like to fix in Ambassadors"
18:43:10 <kital> so just write what you want to fix
18:43:13 * inode0 would like to make a few comments on mentoring from his perspective
18:43:17 <kital> then it is time for questions
18:43:24 <fugolini> !
18:43:34 <Southern_Gentlem> !
18:43:37 <kital> fugolini:
18:43:54 <fugolini> First of all, sorry if I didn't respect the netiquette.
18:44:19 <fugolini> I just want only to suggest this thing, that I read in the Mailing List
18:44:54 <fugolini> Christopher pointed out a big problem. I think FAmSCo (or AMAs) should work writing some guideline
18:45:30 <fugolini> it's seem stupid, but since something isn't structured in rules, it seems only a plus
18:45:34 <fugolini> eof
18:45:50 <kital> fugolini: what do you mean ?
18:45:56 <inode0> I've seen that at events too and think it is mostly the result of too many people at the booth at once (too many ambassadors)
18:46:38 <kital> fugolini: i planed an open floor for the last ten minutes to discuss open issues
18:46:49 <kital> i provided an agenda
18:46:50 * ke4qqq really doesn't want famsco to 'guideline' how people behave or dress or anything else. It should be something the event owner manages. Besides, how would we ever enforce it??
18:46:51 <fugolini> Create some guidlines for booth management. These will be directed, inderectly, to people who, like I did in the past (and you corrected me), don't know how to handle big events and, after, small events
18:46:59 <kital> all people agreed we follow this agenda
18:47:10 <fugolini> kital: I thought this was a topic famsco should take care
18:47:12 <kital> so please turn back to the topic
18:47:13 <fugolini> sorry
18:47:23 <fugolini> the topic is not idea to follow?
18:47:28 <fugolini> ops to sugges
18:47:49 <kital> from my understanding it was a question to famsco
18:48:31 <inode0> I think fugolini recognizes "bad" booth behavior as something he would like "fixed"?
18:48:42 <kital> ok now it makes sence
18:48:44 <kital> sense
18:49:19 <kital> thanks this is a important input
18:49:23 <fugolini> inode0: yes, sorry but I'm quite caotic
18:49:31 * kital too
18:49:32 <fugolini> kital: the thanks goes to christopher
18:50:41 <kital> #action kital put "bad" booth behavior has to be "fixed"?
18:50:51 <kital> #undo
18:50:51 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x12110e90>
18:51:01 <kital> #action kital put "bad" booth behavior has to be "fixed" to the next famsco meeting agenda
18:51:17 <lfoppiano> -1
18:51:30 <lfoppiano> I think bad depends of the point of view
18:51:50 <lfoppiano> shall we speak about the FODEM both?
18:51:55 * inode0 thinks famsco should discuss it - and if best leave it alone
18:52:03 <lfoppiano> ok
18:52:04 <kital> lfoppiano: thats why we will discuss it on the next meeting
18:52:06 * ke4qqq apologizes, but must depart and refocus on $dayjob for a bit.
18:52:08 <susmit> yes, better if we move on.
18:52:19 <lfoppiano> I would like to change a bit the structure of the ambassadors world wide: right now we have regional meetings and regional leaders. Why don't have also country leaders. I'm sure there are already leaders in every country, people who work hard to make things done, but maybe we should make it more official. I think this idea might improve even the communication and the decision process in each contry.
18:52:30 <lfoppiano> nobody is following the protocol...so
18:52:45 <kital> lfoppiano: yes it is a chaos
18:53:01 <lfoppiano> anyway this is my proposal
18:53:12 <Southern_Gentlem> so much for this being a toownhall
18:53:24 <inode0> lfoppiano: there is nothing stopping regional groups from self-organizing by country if they want to is there?
18:54:49 <lfoppiano> inode0: ok
18:55:00 <kital> ok next
18:55:15 <kital> #topic Does the new mentoring process work out or are the guidelines or the mentors to strict?
18:55:45 <inode0> Not working out but the guidelines for mentors are fine
18:55:53 <kital> inode0: ;)
18:55:56 <dramsey> +1
18:56:20 <susmit> inode0, why do you think it is not working out?
18:56:24 <inode0> I find the mentoring process immensely rewarding with a good new contributor
18:56:35 <kital> from my pov i think they are not to strict because mentors can decide by just decide by healthy mind
18:56:52 <n4is3n> whether mentoring should follow a formal procedure?
18:56:53 <kital> and to have a proper wiki page is not so hard
18:56:58 <inode0> I find that a very high percentage of people asking me to mentor them through this process do not fall into that category and just waste my time
18:57:14 <kital> n4is3n: https://fedorahosted.org/fama/wiki/mentoring
18:57:29 <dramsey> Interesting points.
18:57:30 <n4is3n> kital: thx
18:57:51 <inode0> susmit: I think it is doing what it is intended to do, but I don't like feeling like 90% a failure and I don't like wasting so much time on people who aren't serious
18:58:03 <cwickert> !
18:58:11 <kital> cwickert:
18:58:48 <cwickert> the reason why I put this question on the agenda was that I think some of the guidelines are to strict and we loose good people
18:59:04 <cwickert> I'm not even sure if I would have passed the current mentoring modell
18:59:11 <kital> cwickert: you are a packaging sponsor
18:59:29 <n4is3n> +1
18:59:33 <cwickert> right, but what does this have to do with the ambassdors?
18:59:45 <kital> if you want to help someone to become a packager you expect that they take you suggestions and use it
18:59:51 <kital> and follow your guidance
19:00:27 <cwickert> kital, but in the case we discussed two days ago the mentor demanded to follow some rules that are not even in the wiki
19:00:56 <cwickert> when I as a packager sponsor suggest some change to a package, it is written down in the packaging guidelines
19:01:40 <cwickert> IMO we need dedicated ambassadors who are not developers/packagers, cause we don't want tech only stuff hanging out at our booths
19:02:08 <cwickert> and if we put the entry level to high, we might loose people that later turn out to be good ambassadors
19:02:24 <cwickert> eof (for now)
19:02:27 <kital> and if a mentor suggest someone to be more verbose on the wiki page i expect that the mentoree should try to follow
19:02:31 <susmit> !
19:02:41 <kital> susmit:
19:02:46 <cwickert> !
19:03:02 <susmit> cwickert, inode0, I, personally send them a list of works...90% of them does not complete those and comeback. I am not saying this the best way, but I can really find out who are interested and capable. inode0, I, personally send them a list of works...90% of them does not complete those and comeback. I am not saying this the best way, but I can really find out who are interested and capable. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Welcome_Message_To_New_A
19:03:02 <susmit> mbassadors Do  you think something like this will be better?
19:03:12 <susmit> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Welcome_Message_To_New_Ambassadors
19:03:22 <susmit> sorry for the break
19:03:58 <susmit> I repeated twice..but is this understandable?
19:04:27 <susmit> eof
19:04:37 <dramsey> Nice susmit.  ;)
19:04:44 <inode0> !
19:04:47 <lfoppiano> what?
19:04:59 <cwickert> !
19:05:22 <kital> susmit:  in this case a mentor reviewed a page and suggested to add two lines of prosa to look more verbose and the mentoree complaint and deleted the wiki page entirely so we could not sponsor
19:05:50 <kital> cwickert then inode0 then lfoppiano
19:06:01 <cwickert> thanks, forst to susmit, then to kital
19:06:25 <cwickert> susmit, I understand your POV, but in this case we lost a person, who is a member of the wider Fedora community and already helped out at an event
19:06:46 <cwickert> kital/susmit, the information the mentor demanded had nothing to do with Fedora, it was information about $dayjob, which IMO is not required
19:06:50 <cwickert> eof
19:07:38 <susmit> cwickert, that is not definitely required. The concerned person could bring this to FAmSCo. Leaving without any discussion is not a good idea.
19:08:18 <kital> cwickert: i think it was a communication issue you know how is this can happen
19:08:34 <kital> susmit: i am on it
19:08:47 <tatica> !
19:08:48 <cwickert> susmit, no, the person no longer wants to be an ambassador because she thinks the requirements are stipid. she did not leave without discussion
19:08:50 <kital> i heared about it on fosdem
19:09:45 <cwickert> the mentor said he wanted to bring up this topic at famsco, but until two days ago, nobody ever heard about it
19:09:59 <cwickert> thanks to kital for taking over btw!
19:10:06 <cwickert> eof
19:10:32 <lfoppiano> you can skip me...I haven't anythign to say anymore
19:10:33 * inode0 thinks a meeting of mentors to discuss mentoring problems and experiences would be helpful
19:10:43 <susmit> inode0, +1
19:10:44 <tatica> +1
19:10:50 <dramsey> inode0 +1
19:10:57 <tatica> lol, that was what I was writing :D
19:11:00 <tatica> +1
19:11:17 <kital> inode0: great
19:11:24 <inode0> from that maybe we can generate some ideas
19:11:35 <kital> #action kital set up a mentors meeting
19:12:43 <kital> this seems a good fazit for this topic
19:13:02 <kital> undo
19:13:11 <kital> #action kital and tatica set up a mentors meeting
19:13:38 <tatica> lol
19:13:51 <kital> #topic What do you think about opening FAmSCo trac for more transparency? --Cwickert 17:34, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
19:14:04 <kital> we discussed this on the last meeting
19:14:18 * kital searches the report
19:15:20 <kital> http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2010-02-01/fedora-meeting-1.2010-02-01-18.03.html
19:15:35 <kital> AGREED: We agree that the need for transparency exists, but need to think about how to provide that while not opening up private information.
19:15:47 <kital> # http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/PrivacyPolicy  (susmit, 19:00:58)
19:15:49 <susmit> I can summaries..we were not opposed to opening up the trac per se, but we think we need more discussions before we do that.
19:15:56 <cwickert> !
19:16:00 <kital> cwickert:
19:16:10 <kital> and sure susmit
19:16:24 <cwickert> do you know how many reports actually contain private information?
19:16:33 <cwickert> eof
19:17:16 * kital not
19:17:24 <tatica> nop
19:17:50 <susmit> cwickert, no..but considering trac can not be opened selectively, we have to ensure even one does not have that.
19:18:19 <susmit> eof
19:18:28 <kital> this also meens even if it contains content along http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/PrivacyPolicy we can not open it
19:18:50 <kital> so not only bank transfer stuff
19:18:56 <cwickert> !
19:18:58 <kital> cwickert:
19:19:41 <cwickert> sorry to jump back, but i don't think we are honiring the privacy policy in the wiki ether
19:20:03 <cwickert> otherwise we would not have the case we just discussed in the mentoring question
19:20:08 <cwickert> scnr and eof
19:20:48 <kital> cwickert: this is different
19:20:59 <susmit> cwickert, the wiki page *is* created by the account holder. Right? We insist about having valid contact there, not home address or phone number.
19:21:08 <kital> as an ambassador you take a role and you make a decission to do this -
19:21:19 <kital> you have the choice to put it on or not
19:21:56 <cwickert> it was not about address or telephone...
19:22:12 <kital> i see no problem with this https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Template:Userpage
19:22:41 <cwickert> the wiki page was based on that template and the mentor said it was not enough
19:22:52 <cwickert> but this is a different issue
19:23:24 <cwickert> anyway, I think FAmSCo needs to be more transparent and this townhall meeding is a good start.
19:23:24 <cwickert> eof
19:23:29 <kital> from what i could hear the mentor suggested something to enhance the presence of an ambassador
19:24:42 <kital> ok for susmit it is nearly 01:00 am
19:24:56 <susmit> kital, I think we should have a fallback policy in case there be dispute among mentor and mentee..I am afraid of creating too many rules though.
19:25:08 <susmit> we can discuss it in our next meeting.
19:25:16 <cwickert> ?
19:25:32 <kital> cwickert: we will move
19:25:34 <kital> on
19:25:37 <kital> cwickert:
19:25:58 <cwickert> back on the opening trac topic. can please all FAmSCo members please say a brief "yes" or "no"?
19:26:24 <lfoppiano> ??
19:26:24 <kital> cwickert: we have agreement already
19:26:29 <kital> 20:13 < kital> AGREED: We agree that the need for transparency exists, but need to think about how to provide that while not opening up private information.
19:26:52 <kital> cwickert: so please give us this time
19:26:53 <susmit> cwickert, there was a vote if you see the log.
19:26:56 <cwickert> ok
19:28:07 <kital> #action kital create a ticket to discuss fallback policy in case there be dispute among mentor and mentee..
19:28:24 <kital> #topic Are all ambassadors and their projects are supported properly? --Cwickert 17:34, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
19:28:57 <kital> cwickert i think this is because you have got no xfce cd's?
19:29:47 <cwickert> no, not only. there are people like you and me that spend at least 15-20 hours a week on Fedora
19:30:02 <cwickert> are these contributors supported enough?
19:30:05 <kital> cwickert: me at least 8hours a day
19:30:10 <kital> ;) hihi
19:30:40 <kital> cwickert: we can only try
19:30:43 <inode0> supported in what way?
19:30:54 <cwickert> kital, right, and do you feel like your get all the support you need?
19:31:16 <cwickert> inode0, for example when they file a ticket in one of the tracs and there is no response for weeks
19:31:34 <cwickert> nether from the art team, not from a famsco member, not from the board and so on
19:31:38 <susmit> cwickert, for India and APAC, there is no such request, I can assure you.
19:31:49 <cwickert> susmit, well done then
19:32:19 <kital> i though tatica helped you with this ticket
19:32:33 <susmit> we *do* turn down some requests, but we attend each of them.
19:32:54 * tatica has been really busy with flisol... ask apologize to cwickert
19:32:59 <cwickert> right, in fact tatica was the only one to at least do *something* although she became unrespoinsive later too
19:33:26 <cwickert> this might be due to her other duties, but then somebody needs to support tatica too
19:33:50 <tatica> I think that the problem is just that
19:34:17 <tatica> that's why we need to get new contributors (learning) to help with this things
19:34:36 <tatica> not everyone has to be a start at the begin (and I say this for my personal experience)
19:34:49 <tatica> I start with artwork just translating
19:34:59 <dramsey> tatica +1
19:35:06 * tatica just wondering and talking... maybe some solution can be get
19:35:09 <cwickert> tatica, right, but the new contribtors are at the base level when they start. we need more support on higher levels when it comes to money, decisions and so on
19:35:23 <tatica> emm
19:35:27 <tatica> 1 problem at the time
19:35:33 <kital> and to be faster with such things https://fedorahosted.org/emea-swag-tracking/ticket/11
19:35:41 <tatica> if we want to solve them all, we need to take one coin at the time
19:36:13 <tatica> so...
19:36:36 <tatica> cwickert, did the dvd where solved?
19:36:55 <cwickert> no they were not, althought I did the artwork myself later
19:37:04 <tatica> The artwork is ready as PDF at...
19:37:33 <cwickert> mo told me that it needs to be done in srcibus because inkscape doesn't do CKMY
19:37:39 <cwickert> but let's not go into details
19:37:43 <tatica> ok, do you have someone locally that can help you with artwork?
19:37:54 <tatica> there should be local teams to this kind of tasks
19:38:03 <tatica> that something I think, we need to work on
19:38:08 <kital> tatica: you know how large the design team is?
19:38:14 <kital> the only local is nicu
19:38:14 <cwickert> I just wanted to know: do the famsco members think that there is enough support for the high volume contributors
19:38:24 <tatica> in europe
19:38:24 <kital> cwickert: there is never enough
19:38:35 <tatica> so I should export latam experience there :P
19:38:51 <cwickert> ok, honest answer kital, next please
19:38:54 <kital> cwickert: you can never value enough all the volunteers work we all do
19:38:56 <tatica> in latam I only do a base now, there is a team (5 people) working on
19:40:37 <kital> ok seems the others are gone ;)
19:40:43 <lcafiero> Is the meeting over?
19:40:50 <kital> no lcafiero ;)
19:41:08 <kital> but we are through mostly
19:41:15 <lcafiero> OK
19:41:17 <kital> you can read the log ;)
19:41:18 <lcafiero> sorry to interrupt
19:41:20 <kital> np
19:41:36 <kital> last topic
19:41:58 <kital> #topic Is there is enough commitment from Red Hat? --Cwickert 17:34, 8 February 2010 (UTC)
19:42:16 <cwickert> !
19:42:33 <kital> cwickert:
19:42:53 <cwickert> I have seen pictures from FOSDEM and the opensuse guys had nice 23 inch tochscreen computers. Fedora on the other hand has laptops from their contributors of sponsored by dell
19:42:54 <susmit> kital, I am not gone
19:43:09 <kital> wow susmit you do not need sleep ;)
19:43:19 <susmit> no, I don't :)
19:43:42 <cwickert> an opensuse ambassador gets a starter kit with a bag, a shirt, a jacket, a printed handbook and so on
19:43:56 <cwickert> and Fedora ambassadors need to pay for their polos themselves
19:44:10 <kital> cwickert: do you think opensuse ambassador programm is in better shape with these?
19:44:17 <cwickert> so Novell seems to do a lot more for opensuse than red hat does for Fedora
19:44:26 <susmit> cwickert, in India, they don't have to pay...
19:44:41 <inode0> maybe Fedora just chooses to spend its sponsors money more wisely? :)
19:44:49 <susmit> inode0, right
19:44:52 <cwickert> kital, I think we have the better ambassdors, but we don't have enough comittment from RH
19:45:26 <susmit> cwickert, I can not speak for EMEA, but for India, there is enough support.
19:45:42 <kital> cwickert: do you mean ressources ?
19:46:15 <cwickert> yes, all kinds of ressources, money, computers for events, swag, and so on
19:46:24 <kital> or do you mean that rh developers inside fedora should follow the fedora principles
19:46:25 <tatica> hmmm
19:46:29 <rdieter> cwickert: have you (or other ambassadors) asked for something , and it's been turned down?  examples?
19:47:01 <cwickert> rdieter, not officially turned down, but just nothing happens
19:47:18 * inode0 has never asked for a 23" touchscreen, but did ask HP to contribute some netbooks for ambassadors
19:47:40 <n4is3n> whether redhat provides funds for fedora?
19:47:43 <kital> cwickert: we produced 1600 generic DVD/CD in EMEa
19:48:18 <kital> i can understand that you are very angry that you have not the requested XFCE Spin CD/DVD
19:48:30 <cwickert> kital, it is not about *ME*
19:48:42 <cwickert> it was a decision by all EMEA ambassdors during a meeting
19:49:40 <cwickert> the spins are getting not much support, nether from a FAmSCo member, not from the art team, not from release engineering and so on
19:49:54 <cwickert> basically from nobody inside RH or at the higher levels
19:52:13 <cwickert> anyway: I think that many projects in Fedora need more commitment from Red Hat
19:52:14 <kital> #action put a ticket for discussion - how can famsco support the spin community
19:52:21 * inode0 is going to think hard about cwickert's question
19:52:27 <kital> #undo
19:52:27 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x11997d50>
19:52:34 <kital> #action kital put a ticket for discussion - how can famsco support the spin community
19:53:08 <inode0> it isn't likely to change the way we might want without us asking for what we do want ...
19:53:09 <kital> cwickert: this is nothing that can be solved on famsco level
19:53:24 <rdieter> cwickert: I've the same concern, with more and more focus on gnome , err, fedora-desktop and all the talk about target audiece
19:53:30 <kital> we can/will only discuss it and bring it to the board
19:53:42 <cwickert> kital, it's not only famsco, sorry I bring this topic up here. It's Red Hat as such, many people inside Red Hat: rel-eng, infrastructure, art, ....
19:54:07 <inode0> no, thanks for bringing it up - if we want more we should ask for it
19:54:20 <inode0> ambassadors should think about it too
19:54:45 <cwickert> my initial question was not about the spins but about the ambasadors and their support at events
19:55:06 <cwickert> currently we would be lost without people like kital
19:55:06 <inode0> right, that is what I was talking about now
19:55:23 <cwickert> so there needs to be more support from the RH side I think
19:56:04 <kital> cwickert: would it help if emea had a own credit card to solve things faster locally?
19:56:12 <cwickert> and someone also mentioned that RH employees should follow the Fedora principles more. this is also somthing that needs to be discussed somewhere
19:56:32 <kital> cwickert: that was me ;)
19:56:42 <cwickert> kital, no idea. I cannot say if money is the bottle neck
19:56:45 * inode0 me too
19:57:07 <inode0> The Open Source Way
19:57:07 <cwickert> I think it is support from persons, not necessarily money
19:57:12 <cwickert> inode0, +1
19:57:15 <dramsey> +1
19:58:05 <tatica> I just want to say something in this topic
19:58:16 <tatica> money isn't all... yes it helps
19:59:07 <cwickert> ok, I think we cannot make any decisions, suggestions or promises now, so let's close this topic here. thanks a lot to FAmSCo for this open and sometimes controversial meeting.
19:59:17 <tatica> lol
19:59:24 <dramsey> Thank you kital for running the meeting.  :)
19:59:29 <tatica> kital, rox
19:59:31 <cwickert> Sorry I raised so many questions, but hopefully the discussion will be fruitful
19:59:32 <tatica> but guys
19:59:41 <tatica> I'm concern about all this
19:59:51 <kital> cwickert: thanks i know you share the concerns of many emea contributors and it was very important to bring this up here
19:59:59 <tatica> please.. if you have more issues write them, send them
20:00:03 <tatica> don't save to yourselves
20:00:22 <kital> thanks to you all - and to tatica for organizing the meeting
20:00:34 <kital> #endmeeting