15:32:57 #startmeeting 15:32:57 Meeting started Fri Aug 9 15:32:57 2013 UTC. The chair is qubodup. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:32:57 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 15:34:15 ...so, our focus was on systems for enterprise use and a side interest became raspberry pie 15:34:25 I will tell you about a naming story that we encountered 15:34:31 . when naming a product 15:34:43 you look for memorable, searchable, distinct and non-offensive names 15:34:56 this is where open source is a little bit different, where you deal with global stage 15:35:09 where you can't put diferent labels on it. you need global names 15:35:21 so if you can't recommend/find/share/use it, it's a trademark fial 15:35:39 in terms of searchability - this is something new. C# didn't think about searchability 15:36:03 kvm was another problems, the acronym has been used before that for years 15:36:15 you need somthing that is unique enough 15:36:43 as for itentity there's a challenge to balance between alignment between different, you want to evoke ties and emotion 15:36:47 but you also want uniqueness 15:36:59 .. you want to uniquely claim a space 15:37:18 .don't offend. it's easy to pick an offensive name. it's hard to pick a nonoffensive name 15:37:35 there's plenty of commercial trandemark disasters 15:37:41 let me tell a story 15:37:54 we wanted to remix fedora for raspberry 15:38:06 our challenge was to release fedora for raspberry 15:38:23 small graphics processor, small memory, small space, wanky ARM processor 15:38:49 this was a v6 process, which nearly nobody else used 15:38:59 we prepared v5 and v7 in the fedora arch group 15:39:12 we decided to take v5 and adapt it for raspberry pie - fedora remix 15:39:20 challenges were that we didn't have the final board 15:39:23 it wasn't the same 15:39:32 even after release, we didn't have actual boards 15:39:43 there were substantial delays in getting the hardware 15:39:54 ...qemu simulation scenarios... 15:39:58 it was buggy, not surprisingly 15:40:06 there was some rought stuff in the beginning 15:40:20 there was a group that took debian for v6 15:40:27 we were lapped by them 15:40:31 which was good 15:40:48 we said that we care about the device, so it'd be great to have fedora there 15:40:56 we didn't like the name, it was too long (feodra remix) 15:40:59 too long 15:41:01 confusing 15:41:03 poor searchability 15:41:15 you get a lot of stuff unrelated 15:41:35 but there was no designated raspberry pie fedora arch 15:41:40 so we started thinking of new names 15:41:55 to make it clear that it's different from original raspberry pie fedora remix 15:42:05 suggestion was: pidora 15:42:24 it seemed weird but many people were fine with it 15:42:30 so we started to consider this a posisble name 15:42:59 a russian team member gave a small warning saying it sounds like a different word but didn't think it would be a problem. 15:43:33 fedora trademark guidelines does not allow play on words but I tried anyways 15:43:53 spot tried it with the lawyers and they said it's only ok if we register it as a trademark 15:43:59 pidora was then approved 15:44:14 red hat leagl is clearly awesome 15:44:24 pidora.ca generously osted by bluehost 15:44:47 *hosted 15:44:59 the raspberry pi foundation mirrored it 15:45:17 on release day we noticed that russian web traffic dominated 15:45:29 we did not understand what this meant 15:45:47 one of the emails pointed out a russian meaning of the word 15:46:15 we got: threads of doom, bug reports, emails for and agains.... 15:46:50 ... we decided we need to make a statment 15:46:59 we put a small link on the website to a statement about the name 15:47:17 we were seeking an alternative name for russia 15:47:20 (n) 15:47:39 the overwhelming concensus with russian speakers was thet the name needs to be changed asap 15:47:45 we couldn't change on a dime 15:48:03 options were global name change and russian-specific version 15:48:30 the second being weaker but more viable 15:49:09 there is a large raspberry pi user commmunity in russia. so we working on the second option 15:49:34 we created modules for firstboot 15:50:05 we ran into interesting discussions 15:50:17 we asked for new names in the russian community 15:50:39 they came up with a name that didn't sound russian, they suggested fedberry 15:50:48 we didn't want to do the legal dance again 15:51:49 we were thinking of a re-release which the changes we made 15:52:20 one of the big challenges was that the most helpful russian contributors weren't technologically grounded enough to do the needed localization changes 15:52:46 f19 pidora release - this is where we hope to get the changes in 15:52:52 we are a small research group 15:52:55 5 people 15:53:12 the ratio of 5 to 2million raspberry pi users intimidated us 15:53:19 and made us more timid 15:53:38 I learned: if we had discussed the name more openly, the community could have done what we could not 15:53:52 give feedback about regional implications for example 15:53:58 not doing that was one of our major faults 15:54:00 lesson learned 15:54:08 we'll engage the community earlier 15:54:18 also release early release often 15:54:21 this was our story 15:54:28 i was wondering if any of you had problems 15:54:36 "rdo has a number of problems" 15:54:43 "it's a farming manifacturer company" 15:54:48 "rdo is not searchable" 15:54:53 "it also doesn't stand for anything" 15:55:16 "the decision was to not have 'red hat' in the name any more, which is where it stopped having a name" 15:55:33 "I don't have a soultion. that's the situation i'm in" 15:55:43 does rdo rpesent any other challenges 15:55:51 "no, no offensive problems" 15:56:18 "we have conversations about coming up with new meanings but no solution yet" 15:57:14 "snope, gnova..." 15:57:15 what is rdo? 15:58:34 "0ad has the problem of knowing how to spell it when you hear it" 15:59:01 rdo http://openstack.redhat.com/Main_Page 15:59:11 RDO is a community of people using and deploying OpenStack on Red Hat and Red Hat-based platforms. 15:59:26 **...talk continued...** 15:59:50 can you propose any other names how to vet a name for an open source project? 16:00:08 "is there a list of foss naming?" 16:00:17 "I know we have a fedora marketing list" 16:00:35 it would be difficult to attract enough different people in different contexts... 16:00:44 "withing apache foundation we have an incubator" 16:00:48 "one of the steps is naming" 16:01:08 "projects will go through a phase where the name is tested mostly for trademark violation but also appropriateness 16:01:11 " 16:01:15 "apache might be a good resource" 16:01:27 "another thing that has happened. we named projects in local languages 16:02:04 for example a sri langa or sahili names, because core contributors were speakers" 16:02:16 I wonder if transifex community would be a place to do it 16:02:41 " you are talking about searchability, not search engine optimization?" 16:03:09 " i think there should be a list of rules for names" 16:03:20 "I feel i learned just listneing" 16:03:40 "google has a safe search. it'd be interesting to compare safe search and nonsafe search results" 16:04:24 we couldn't have searched for pidora though 16:04:51 "another question, what you end up doing is keeping the trandemark everywhere except russia?" 16:04:54 yes 16:05:07 "the reason is because you already did the work of spreading the name?" 16:05:26 there was a lot of effort. with enough time we could have recalled the name 16:05:36 but we decided to keep it for most of the planet 16:05:51 pidora.ca 16:06:01 thank for hearing my story and brainstorming with me 16:06:05 on potential better solutions 16:06:11 Questions? 16:06:41 "about pidora, not naming" 16:07:14 "i set up a build infrastructure around raspbery, i can't doo it in pidora. i geet a segfault when doing ...[?]..." 16:07:32 "what's different between fedora and debian raspberry projects being built?" 16:07:41 it should be able to find it in the compile flags 16:08:00 we don't have emulated use 16:08:03 odd 16:08:07 "it is odd" 16:08:27 #endmeeting