15:39:52 <spevack> #startmeeting FAD NA 2010 day 2
15:39:52 <zodbot> Meeting started Sat May 22 15:39:52 2010 UTC.  The chair is spevack. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
15:39:52 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
15:40:08 <spevack> #chair inode0 herlo dgilmore ianweller rbergeron ke4qqq makfinsky threethirty
15:40:08 <zodbot> Current chairs: dgilmore herlo ianweller inode0 ke4qqq makfinsky rbergeron spevack threethirty
15:40:23 <rbergeron> thank you for starting spevack :)
15:40:46 <spevack> #topic Fedora Marketing / Ambassadors relationship
15:40:52 <spevack> *  List of Ambassador marketing materials needs to give to marketing to produce, prioritized. (rbergero)
15:40:55 <spevack> * SOP / Process for handing off Marketing information to Ambassadors each cycle. (rbergero)
15:40:58 <spevack> rbergeron has the floor
15:41:49 <spevack> Marketing portion of this event is two-pronged
15:42:07 <spevack> (1) Marketing produces stuff to possibly be used by ambassadors as messaging/talking points/feature lists, etc.
15:42:19 <spevack> No clear process exists for handing that off to Ambassadors!!!!
15:42:34 <spevack> This is an activity that is ON THE SCHEDULE but it's not clear how that's being done.
15:42:43 <spevack> Discuss.
15:42:58 <spevack> Where's the email sent out to?  Fedora Ambassadors List.
15:43:24 <spevack> Right now, this communication is basically an email -- the email just mentioned above.
15:44:21 <spevack> inode0: Lots of NA ambassadors use the feature-related stuff.
15:45:52 <spevack> *lots of crosstalk*
15:47:24 <threethirty> +1 on the cd sleve with more info
15:49:35 <makfinsky> Perhaps putting the talking points or release page info on the sleeves.
15:50:00 <ke4qqq> spevack: talking about difference between release-specific mktg deliverables and the more timeless content...
15:50:18 <ke4qqq> about what Fedora is, why you wanna get involved, why it's important, what that makes us teh awesum
15:55:34 <ke4qqq> rbergeron: is drawing on the board - giving tasks out, asking questions
15:55:40 <ke4qqq> do you sit and study talking points?
15:55:46 <ke4qqq> some people do, some don't
15:56:06 <ke4qqq> herlo: people learn what people ask at the events.
15:58:40 <dgilmore> ke4qqq: and event specific messages
16:16:30 <ke4qqq> #action herlo - create really short message of awesome for a single page
16:17:21 <herlo> #ke4qqq help herlo create the really short message of awesome for a single page
16:17:27 <herlo> #action ke4qqq help herlo create the really short message of awesome for a single page
16:20:05 <spevack> #agreed #fedora-classroom session as a way to brief Ambassadors on Marketing team's deliverables, answer questions about them, and remind people of older materials that are now deprecated.
16:20:29 <spevack> #agreed Add agenda items to all regional ambassador meetings to ensure that the materials are known and read.
16:25:08 <smooge> rbergeron, thankyou for the long coherent blog :)
16:31:04 <rbergeron> smooge: i'm always here to .... be completely useless :)
16:31:53 <ke4qqq> smooge: you didn't like the chipmunk blog post from dgilmore ???
16:31:53 <smooge> actually it was very useful. It dovetailed into a post that I was reading on a different planet
16:32:33 <smooge> ke4qqq, ground squirrel :) chipmunk's dont have tails... every disney movie has taught me that for years :)
16:33:09 <rbergeron> http://jjpmcd.livejournal.com/9046.html
16:33:26 <ke4qqq> spevack: http://jjpmcd.livejournal.com/9046.html  <-- blog post worth your time to plow through.
16:34:07 <rbergeron> i was first
16:51:33 <herlo> #action lcafiero help herlo create the really short message of awesome for a single page
17:14:00 <rbergeron> so - here are generic talkinng points:
17:14:03 <rbergeron> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/TalkingPoints
17:14:35 <rbergeron> vs - release specific talking points - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_13_Talking_Points
17:49:35 <spevack> ke4qqq: reading it now
18:01:36 <spevack> #topic Mentoring
18:01:47 <spevack> herlo -- A lot of the mentoring that we currently do is good.
18:01:57 <spevack> Higher barrier requiring people who come into ambassadors actually know things about Fedora.
18:02:11 <spevack> This is good.  It helps to ensure the quality of the message.
18:02:24 <spevack> Good things that we've solved in the past 2 years.
18:02:53 <ke4qqq> http://fpaste.org/CNUE/  <-- the mentoring form letter I use for first contact - largely stolen from susmit
18:02:59 <spevack> "We" defined as famsco and ambassadors worldwide who care about mentoring -- folks like kital
18:03:11 <spevack> How do we increase the mentor base?  There's some problems there that we need to solve.
18:04:56 <smooge> spevack, my apologies to interrupt, but who from sysadmin is available at the moment?
18:05:13 <ke4qqq> smooge: what sysadmin groups?
18:05:24 <ke4qqq> we have a number, though our -main is checking on meat atm
18:05:47 <smooge> jds2001, and dgilmore were the ones I needed a quick talk with
18:05:54 <ke4qqq> jds2001: isn't local to us
18:06:04 <smooge> ah ok nb?
18:06:05 <ke4qqq> dgilmore is check on meat at John's house
18:06:10 <ke4qqq> nb isn't local
18:06:11 <ke4qqq> ianweller is
18:06:17 <ianweller> hi
18:06:42 <spevack> smooge: do you need us to call dgilmore and ask him to get to a computer?
18:07:05 <spevack> Goals:
18:07:25 <spevack> (1) If you are a prospective NA Ambassador, what's the process for confirming that and moving people from being mentored to being Ambassadors in the wild.
18:07:46 <spevack> (2) Figure out a way to take standard Ambassadors in the wild and convert them into mentors.
18:12:41 <ke4qqq> .fasinfo rbergero
18:12:42 <zodbot> ke4qqq: User: rbergero, Name: Robyn Bergeron, email: robyn.bergeron@gmail.com, Creation: 2008-06-03, IRC Nick: rbergeron, Timezone: US/Arizona, Locale: en, Extension: 5107194, GPG key ID: , Status: active
18:12:46 <zodbot> ke4qqq: Approved Groups: @cmswriters @cmseditors ambassadors @fedoraldc sysadmin-test +marketing cla_fedora cla_done +ols
18:15:49 <ke4qqq> #link https://fedorahosted.org/fama/
18:20:33 * rbergeron wonders why she's being looked up
18:20:50 <makfinsky> Do we have stats on how many complaints have gone to famsco when fama/mentor hasn't replied?
18:20:54 <ke4qqq> trying to see when you signed CLA compared to join ambassadors
18:21:02 <ke4qqq> makfinsky: I am asking now
18:21:53 <jds2001> ke4qqq: whats up?
18:22:25 <ke4qqq> smooge is looking for you jds2001
18:23:10 <jds2001> smooge: whats up?
18:27:17 <smooge> jds2001, #fedora-noc
18:29:49 <spevack> rbergeron: "Becoming an Ambassador shouldn't be an emergency."
18:30:30 <ke4qqq> is a fedora fanclub a solution to this problem
18:30:42 <ke4qqq> ??
18:30:59 <dgilmore> ke4qqq: whats a fan club
18:31:01 <threethirty> we could call it a street team...
18:31:15 <ke4qqq> yes but not alliteration
18:31:35 <ke4qqq> dgilmore: it's a collection of enthusiasts
18:32:21 <dgilmore> ke4qqq: i guess i mean whats it mean to us. what do we give/get etc
18:33:19 <ianweller> herlo: when you're not busy, i need a favor
18:38:36 <ianweller> .fasinfo ianweller
18:38:37 <zodbot> ianweller: User: ianweller, Name: Ian Weller, email: ian@ianweller.org, Creation: 2008-02-01, IRC Nick: ianweller, Timezone: US/Central, Locale: en, Extension: 5103066, GPG key ID: 00A44BC8, Status: active
18:38:41 <zodbot> ianweller: Approved Groups: gitfedora-web altvideos provenpackager bzrpython-fedora gitfedoracommunity designteam @gitspins @gitsupybot-fedora sysadmin-web sysadmin sysadmin-test cla_fedora art cla_done marketing fedorabugs +packager web wikiadmin @gitwikirename ambassadors @gitfedora-event-splash @gitsupybot-nocnag @gitfedorelli @gitfedora-wiki +docs freemedia
18:40:35 <ke4qqq> please proof, critique and edit this: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors#Who_are_we.3F
18:42:03 <makfinsky> < ke4qqq > http://fpaste.org/CNUE/
18:43:46 <ke4qqq> #action ke4qqq redraft "who are we" in Ambassadors page
18:43:53 <ke4qqq> #undo
18:43:53 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x23151850>
18:44:02 <ke4qqq> #action ke4qqq redraft "who are we" in [[Ambassadors]] page
18:50:40 <ke4qqq> #action ianweller given the subset of people unapproved in fas for ambassadors, what is the delta between joining fas, and requesting membership in ambassadors
19:15:49 <ianweller> .fasinfo yzcswang
19:15:50 <zodbot> ianweller: User: yzcswang, Name: Cheng-Yu, Wang, email: yzcswang@gmail.com, Creation: 2007-04-09, IRC Nick: None, Timezone: UTC, Locale: C, Extension: 5101471, GPG key ID: 119BCDFC, Status: active
19:15:54 <zodbot> ianweller: Approved Groups: cla_fedora cla_done
19:23:52 <ianweller> here's the array
19:23:54 <ianweller> it's in seconds
19:23:54 <ianweller> [65, 71, 90, 100, 117, 157, 177, 359, 367, 390, 432, 455, 518, 1032, 4174, 4327, 10162, 14188, 17404, 18168, 19360, 19587, 21257, 27665, 33867, 34362, 35854, 40754, 51759, 57946, 60483, 61182, 66571, 80730, 82508, 84286]
19:26:22 <ianweller> that's the difference in time between getting approved in cla_done and clicking "join" on the ambassadors group page on FAS
19:27:59 * ke4qqq notes that Max is starting to sound more like gdk
19:28:15 <ke4qqq> in tone and cadence
19:28:25 <spevack> need MOAR whiskey
19:28:33 <herlo> no!
19:28:40 <herlo> shut your hole! I'm trying to talk!
19:28:46 * rbergeron tapdances in the corner
19:28:52 <ianweller> ke4qqq: i found the user that had the 65-second delta
19:28:54 <ke4qqq> where?
19:28:58 <ke4qqq> ianweller: who?
19:30:20 <ianweller> ke4qqq: in /msg
19:31:02 <ianweller> so basic summary of that data: the people who have joined ambassadors and have not been approved are all in between the CLA-to-join-ambassador delta of 1 minute and 1 day
19:31:06 <ianweller> which is very, very interesting data
19:31:23 <ianweller> this *does* ignore anybody before FAS2 because some of the timestamp data failed to transfer over
19:31:52 <spevack> http://www.google.com/search?q=moar%20boar
19:32:44 <ke4qqq> ianweller: can you change that to the approved group of ambassadors
19:32:52 <ke4qqq> as your beginning subset
19:32:52 <ianweller> ke4qqq: fairly easily, yes
19:32:56 <ianweller> i just change one line
19:33:08 <ianweller> like, you're wanting the same data, but for everyone who is already approved as an ambassador?
19:33:09 <spevack> ke4qqq: to see how long current ambassadors waited?
19:33:12 <ke4qqq> ianweller: have you posted the cdoe - I can run it if you want
19:33:14 <ke4qqq> spevack: yes
19:33:25 <ianweller> ke4qqq: i'll just go ahead and run it -- i'm going to blog it at some point
19:34:29 <ianweller> haha apparently it's not a 1-liner
19:34:37 <ianweller> the data i got back: []
19:34:44 <spevack> heh
19:38:03 <herlo> #action ke4qqq define guidelines for email to be sent to potential ambassadors
19:38:16 <ianweller> #action ianweller blog about the code he just wrote
19:39:50 <herlo> #action inode0 help others to become mentors
19:40:11 <herlo> #action inode0 implement a 1-week waiting period
19:40:50 <herlo> #action ke4qqq make a formal request to FAmSCo for a 1-week waiting period for potential ambassadors
19:40:53 <herlo> done!
19:41:19 <herlo> #action lcafiero remind inode0 to do his task
19:41:53 <herlo> #action lcafiero help inform potential mentors that they *can* be mentors
19:42:11 <rbergeron> #action rbergero continue to be proud to be awesome
19:42:33 <herlo> rbergeron: that's my #action
19:46:15 <ianweller> hey guys i did it wrong :)
19:46:21 <makfinsky> .fasinfo makfinsky
19:46:22 <zodbot> makfinsky: User: makfinsky, Name: Ivan Makfinsky, email: ivan.makfinsky@endosys.com, Creation: 2008-12-27, IRC Nick: makfinsky, Timezone: US/Eastern, Locale: en, Extension: 5121693, GPG key ID: EF29FB50, Status: active
19:46:23 <ianweller> i thought it was a bit weird that they were all under a day
19:46:24 <dgilmore> .ext herlo
19:46:26 <zodbot> makfinsky: Approved Groups: freemedia ambassadors cla_fedora cla_done
19:46:31 <zodbot> dgilmore: 5101661
19:46:34 <lcafiero> .ext lcafiero
19:46:39 <zodbot> lcafiero: 5105587
19:46:50 <dgilmore> .ext ausil
19:46:51 <zodbot> dgilmore: 5100103
19:47:07 <dgilmore> .ext spevack
19:47:08 <zodbot> dgilmore: User spevack doesn't exist
19:47:11 <dgilmore> .ext mspevack
19:47:12 <zodbot> dgilmore: 5100466
19:47:55 <dgilmore> .ext notting
19:47:56 <zodbot> dgilmore: 5100045
19:48:40 <spevack> .ext stickster
19:48:41 <zodbot> spevack: User stickster doesn't exist
19:48:47 <spevack> .ext pfrields
19:48:48 <zodbot> spevack: 5100077
19:48:58 <spevack> .ext gdk
19:48:59 <zodbot> spevack: 5100025
19:49:02 <spevack> .ext jeremy
19:49:03 <zodbot> spevack: 5104953
19:49:18 <ianweller> we're on break :)
19:51:11 <ianweller> ok here is the More Valid(tm) data
19:51:12 <ianweller> [65, 71, 90, 100, 117, 157, 177, 359, 367, 390, 432, 455, 518, 1032, 4174, 4327, 10162, 18168, 21257, 66571, 120267, 122254, 230746, 451587, 904754, 1293886, 1378508, 2001388, 2619665, 3862083, 6272559, 10794330, 15915004, 19977760, 36867582, 39432762]
19:53:00 <dgilmore> .groupinfo fedora-ambasadors
20:01:44 <dgilmore> .helpfas
20:01:46 <dgilmore> .help fas
20:01:46 <zodbot> dgilmore: (fas <query>) -- Search the Fedora Account System usernames, full names, and email addresses for a match.
20:01:55 <dgilmore> .help group
20:01:55 <zodbot> dgilmore: (group <group short name>) -- Return information about a Fedora Account System group.
20:02:05 <dgilmore> .group fedora-ambasadors
20:02:06 <zodbot> dgilmore: There is no group "fedora-ambasadors".
20:02:13 <dgilmore> .group fedora-ambasaddors
20:02:14 <zodbot> dgilmore: There is no group "fedora-ambasaddors".
20:02:22 <rbergeron> .group fedora-ambassadors
20:02:25 <zodbot> rbergeron: There is no group "fedora-ambassadors".
20:02:48 <rbergeron> .fasinfo rbergeron
20:02:49 <zodbot> rbergeron: User "rbergeron" doesn't exist
20:02:54 <rbergeron> .fasinfo rbergero
20:02:57 <zodbot> rbergeron: User: rbergero, Name: Robyn Bergeron, email: robyn.bergeron@gmail.com, Creation: 2008-06-03, IRC Nick: rbergeron, Timezone: US/Arizona, Locale: en, Extension: 5107194, GPG key ID: , Status: active
20:02:57 <dgilmore> .group ambassadors
20:03:01 <zodbot> rbergeron: Approved Groups: @cmswriters @cmseditors ambassadors @fedoraldc sysadmin-test +marketing cla_fedora cla_done +ols
20:03:04 <zodbot> dgilmore: ambassadors: Fedora Ambassador Project
20:03:26 <dgilmore> .group-members ambassadors
20:04:42 <dgilmore> .groupmembers ambassadors
20:04:57 <dgilmore> .groupinfo ambassadors
20:07:32 <dgilmore> .members ambassadors
20:07:34 <zodbot> dgilmore: Members of ambassadors: aab aacosta aalcantara aalonso aarapov aaroncas abhradipm abompard acaleechurn acardenas acedip actown adamgogarty adil452100 adimania adliazaddin ador adora adrianalves aeperezt affix agk aguskov ahandajf ahmedelgamil ahoffsta ahsan ajamison ajoian akashmkj akrem001 aks alexh alexxed allisson alphonse alukin alyy amachu amaier amani amoncada amoupgu ananthgs anast andreasr angel (14 more messages)
20:07:40 <dgilmore> .more
20:07:40 <zodbot> dgilmore: ankit1999 ankur ankursinha anoochit anouar antoniomontag antoniosalles anujmore any0n3 ar29un aramrami arbiter arielch arkezis armandasj armelk arsenick arthurbuliva arturofernandez ascenseur asilva aslam atejeda ausil axelilly axjslack azneita aznemesis baig balajig8 balajivp bandolero baransels barbacchi barrera bbbush bckurera bcling behdad benedictus bertux bhaslinux biertie biggsk bjtoogood blablabla (13 more messages)
20:07:41 <dgilmore> .more
20:07:44 <zodbot> dgilmore: bm90fox bochecha bokal bonapart bouska bpepple bpowell01 brianhen buggz c4ri0c4 callkalpa casep cassmodiah cattaneop catur ccarreno cfikes cgrams chakrabortydipanjan chaostone charged charlymanja cheekyboinc chendra chgonzalez chicagonpg chitlesh cimpiko cjg cmaiolino cmpahar cobaleda colincunningham comzeradd constanton coolbung couf cprofitt crossbytes crossovo cvinchon cwickert cwtucker d33d dafahounko (12 more messages)
20:07:45 <dgilmore> .more
20:07:48 <zodbot> dgilmore: dahlan danyikki daoud dapidc davdunc davivercillo dbpatankar dbruno dca dduval dearova deathgazer dejavu87 delete delhage deneb derikonto devrim devspain dextone dezone diaa dichi diegobz dilipkhanolkar dmaphy dmaxel dnhodgson dougsland dowdle dp67 dramsey dreamer drewmeigs drkmafia drsys dthomasdigital duffy duli dushyanth dvation dyemes e1luca echerif edgabaldi edgates eduardoquiroz eduzamorano eerpini (11 more messages)
20:07:49 <dgilmore> .more
20:07:53 <zodbot> dgilmore: ehabkost elb17090 elijah eliotondo elquintu emigonza emmie empoweringlinux enchenu engels erheiner erqiyang erzakanano esteban estebansaavedra etali etank eteo eugenejvr evillagr ezq @fab fabriziolapiello faxe fbijlsma fcrippa fdagnino fdjaudinesjr fedora24by9 fhornain filiperosset fleite foxhaund frankiemangoa frankly3d freakrobot @fugolini fusion94 fzied gaaruto galania galdax gamaray1 ganesai gantu (10 more messages)
20:07:55 <dgilmore> .more
20:07:57 <zodbot> dgilmore: gbcox gbraad gdha gdk geroldka gezimmavric giallu giannisk glaksmono glezos glommer gmedeiro gmzysk gomix gonz0 gpirvan grantbow gregoryfenton greylite gsorian guardic gvarisco hacataka hagr182 hakmn hamadazahera hanafiah hans hanx harishpillay heffer heqichen heracias herlo heydemoura hguemar hiemanshu hilillos himam hiran hmdmph hnws hpachas hsiplabs hutchint hyeclass ianweller ibenk68th igor ilyes (9 more messages)
20:08:01 <dgilmore> .more
20:08:05 <zodbot> dgilmore: imtiaz inode0 iosifidis iranzo itamarjp itbegins itocamargo izaac izhar jack jadennh1 jaideep jainbasil jasonbenedict jasonbrown17 jasonk jassy jatin jay4rest jaymeayres jbasse jbizama jbwillia jcda jciacia jcsniper jczucco jdieter jeffreyt jens jensm jfautley jfsaucier jibeshpatra jjmartinez jkeating jlara jmbabich jmperro jnanney jnccneto johanhsn johannbg jonisk877 joseda josedamiangarrido josemm (8 more messages)
20:15:30 <threethirty> table is broken on the joing ambassadors page
20:15:57 <threethirty> the table is daunting
20:17:17 <makfinsky> A workflow may be a better way of walking new ambassadors through the join process.
20:17:22 <rbergeron> #idea don't use tables for anytyhing other than tabular data
20:17:42 <rbergeron> #action add a "2-week" rule to the joining_ambassadors wiki page
20:19:01 <makfinsky> #proposed action - Add a definition of what an ambassador for Fedora is, the work involved and the responsibility.
20:19:21 <rbergeron> i don't know that #proposed gets added to the notes?
20:19:36 <makfinsky> Ah.
20:20:26 <makfinsky> That's for a different page I just realized.
20:20:47 <rbergeron> #help
20:21:01 <rbergeron> #undo
20:21:01 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Help object at 0x17eadf50>
20:21:47 <rbergeron> meetbot commands are here: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot
20:22:27 <makfinsky> Thanks, I'll have to read up on it.
20:24:48 <rbergeron> discussing if we want to find 15 ambassador pages that need loving,
20:24:59 <makfinsky> And add to wiki challenge.
20:25:36 <rbergeron> max says, a while back he went through all pages looking for ambassadors pages via a special page index.
20:25:43 <rbergeron> he did a decent amount of cleanup, but it was difficult.
20:26:09 <rbergeron> A great way to see all pages related to Ambassadors
20:26:41 <makfinsky> The search was done by searching for "Special Prefix - Ambassadors".
20:26:47 <rbergeron> what is the special pages prefix direct link?
20:26:55 <rbergeron> ianweller do you know offhand?
20:27:59 <rbergeron> we'er all going to take a look at http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors
20:28:01 <makfinsky> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Special:SpecialPages
20:28:07 <rbergeron> and try to find some of thepages that need love.
20:28:07 <makfinsky> rbergeron: ^
20:28:51 <spevack> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex
20:28:52 <makfinsky> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex
20:28:59 <spevack> https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3APrefixIndex&from=Ambassadors&namespace=0
20:29:47 <rbergeron> so - this page https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Drafts/NA/Goals
20:29:54 <rbergeron> i recognize that it says drafts -
20:30:06 <rbergeron> but it is from 2008 - people may still see goals and be interested
20:30:29 <rbergeron> #action add an admon saying this page is out of date - or UPDATE page - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Drafts/NA/Goals
20:30:35 <rbergeron> #undo
20:30:35 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Action object at 0x22d18910>
20:30:47 <rbergeron> #action add an admon saying this page is out of date - or UPDATE page - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Drafts/NA/Goals
20:31:44 <rbergeron> #action ambassadors FAQ should be sanity checked and also has two random }}'s at the bottom, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/FAQ
20:32:10 <rbergeron> is ambassador's FAQ page linked directly and / or prominently from teh ambassador's main page?
20:32:25 <rbergeron> if not- should we make an effort to weed out stuff by using the FAQ?
20:33:30 <rbergeron> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/SteeringCommittee/CleanUpPages
20:33:47 <lcafiero> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Meetings -- needs updating
20:34:38 <rbergeron> #action https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/AnswerQuestions has some interesting content - but is not linked anywhere except a spanish-language page, and the ambassadors-wiki-pages-to-clean-up.
20:34:40 <ianweller> {{needs love}}
20:36:31 <rbergeron> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Booth_questions
20:36:55 <rbergeron> #action we have a TON of ambassadors questions pages - why are we being so redundant? why do we have a FAQ, booth questions, answer questions, etc. pages?
20:37:06 <rbergeron> can't we group all of these into one document?
20:37:42 <makfinsky> rbergeron: Because different ambassadors in different regions aren't aware of work that's already been done.
20:38:26 <rbergeron> what do you mean?
20:38:37 <rbergeron> #action https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/NA/EventTracking needs admon note saying this is old / no longer in use
20:39:19 <ianweller> that would  be teh {{delete}} tag
20:40:05 <rbergeron> #action https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/NA/Expectations This page links nowhere.
20:40:34 <ianweller> is it even needed?
20:40:38 <rbergeron> do we even care what is on pages if those pages link nowhere?
20:42:14 <rbergeron> #action assess whether we want to say "don't be a douche" on a wikipage. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/NorthAmerica/WDP
20:42:22 <herlo> rbergeron: we can :)
20:42:26 * herlo put that there
20:42:31 <ke4qqq> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraProject:Deletion
20:43:06 <rbergeron> what are we doing with https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/NorthAmerica/WDP
20:43:11 <rbergeron> it links to... nowhere
20:53:37 <rbergeron> we could redirect this page to ambassador_whuffie https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Awards
20:53:40 <rbergeron> lol
20:55:32 <rbergeron> ianweller: can we get like... a WTF wiki admon note / category?
20:55:35 <rbergeron> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Hoarding
20:55:52 <rbergeron> what is a hoarding?
20:56:00 <rbergeron> is this some US centric view of mine that makes me ignorant
20:56:17 <herlo> ~lart rbergeron
20:56:31 <rbergeron> lart?
20:58:24 <herlo> rbergeron: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luser <-- this
21:00:10 <ianweller> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Delete
21:00:14 <rbergeron> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Mentors_Survey
21:00:21 <rbergeron> is that the survey stuff kital wanted to do?
21:00:25 <rbergeron> ke4qqq? ^^^
21:01:56 <rbergeron> oky, that's a yes
21:02:13 <rbergeron> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/EventBox/PersonalEventBox <-- this page links to nothing. should we see if it's uesful to add somewhere?
21:06:37 <herlo> no
21:06:40 <herlo> rbergeron: ^^
21:06:52 <herlo> just my opinion
21:07:11 <rbergeron> okay :)
21:12:21 <ianweller> https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-wiki/browser/fix_double_redirects.py
21:12:22 <ianweller> THERE
21:21:43 <makfinsky> http://fpaste.org/i3ZD/
21:21:58 <ianweller> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/MembershipService#Membership_Check
21:42:48 <threethirty> rbergeron: what do you think should be done with that page... I know we might want to examine the terminology on it but I dont have an idea where it should go
21:43:11 <rbergeron> which page?
21:43:17 <rbergeron> the membership service page?
21:43:19 * rbergeron is really slow
21:43:22 <threethirty> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/EventBox/PersonalEventBox
21:43:27 * threethirty is the slow one
21:45:44 <ianweller> < spevack> if you would give FAMNA a grade as a whole, what would you give it
21:45:47 <ianweller> < ke4qqq> an F
21:45:58 <ianweller> < ke4qqq> because there were only 10 people who cared enough to say "i want to go to FAD NA"
21:46:03 <ianweller> < herlo> or 10 people who had enough time
21:46:20 <ianweller> < rbergeron> i blogged a thousand times if you think you should come, say something!
21:46:29 <ianweller> < makfinsky> how many show up to a typical FAD?
21:46:32 <ianweller> < spevack> about this many
21:46:34 <ianweller> < makfinsky> not an F
21:46:43 <ianweller> < ke4qqq> but we have hundreds of ambassadors!
21:46:52 <ianweller> < makfinsky> but how many actually show up to the weekly meetings? 10!
21:47:09 <ianweller> < herlo> there are a lot of people that have jobs that have things more important than this. not that this isn't important, they just might not have time to come.
21:47:24 <ianweller> < herlo> if you took half of the ambassadors that are out there, you can throw those away because of that.
21:47:35 <ianweller> < spevack> ambassadors is fairly opportunistic, compared to other areas in fedora
21:48:08 <ianweller> < spevack> we've talked about budget, wiki, best practices, mentoring... but nobody really wanted to say from the very beginning when the agenda was set "things are in total chaos/disarray"
21:48:33 <ianweller> < dgilmore> most ambassadors only care about the program when it's something local to them
21:48:56 <ianweller> < makfinsky> well how else can they be an ambassador?
21:49:16 <ianweller> < makfinsky> i know that i can because i'm here but the avg ambassador probably ins't going to participate in those types of things remotely because we're freakin' lazy
21:49:30 <ianweller> < inode0> but there are people like nirik helping in #fedora, he's being an ambassador every day
21:49:40 <ianweller> < herlo> that goes back to -- life does get in the way
21:50:04 <ianweller> < inode0> there's a core bunch of business ambassadors are doing adequately well
21:50:22 <ianweller> < inode0> we get people swag.
21:50:38 <ianweller> [ sudden digression thanks to makfinsky about dgilmore smelling like BBQ ]
21:50:42 <ianweller> [ ke4qqq moves towards dgilmore ]
21:51:02 <ianweller> < lcafiero> i'm with ke4qqq becaues i'm thinking more people could have come
21:51:09 <ianweller> < spevack> in my mind i'm trying to figure out --
21:51:17 <ianweller> < ke4qqq> i think we're doing a decent job of showing up at events
21:51:35 <ianweller> < ke4qqq> which used to be the mandate. when ambassadors was started, it was to have a presence at linux events. i think we're doing a poor job of representing the public face of fedora
21:51:41 <ianweller> < ke4qqq> we're not having a presence on fedora forums
21:52:28 <ianweller> < ke4qqq> there should not just be a few people at fedora fourms
21:52:33 <ianweller> (excuse my spelling)
21:52:52 <ianweller> < ke4qqq> i think we do a poor job of representing fedora outside events
21:53:15 <ianweller> < spevack> won't disagree. most of the events i go to, we're at a point where we usually have the nicest booth and the most professional presence. banners, polo shirts, we look good, we generally represent fedora very ewll
21:53:19 <ianweller> well*
21:53:54 <ianweller> < dgilmore> contributors tend to tune out of messages that come across.
21:55:19 <ianweller> < dgilmore> there could be a bunch of ambassadors that, had they realized this was going on, they could have come, but there is a sheer volume of noise going on that is not ok. when i brnached EPEL for RHEL 6 i sent mails to devel@, devel-announce@ that this is what we're doing, this is how we're doing it and if you don't want your package  branched then you need to take these steps, and some people listened, when the branching happened ...
21:55:25 <ianweller> ... they built their packages and were kind of moving forward with it, but the vast majority of people have not updated their cvs checkout and have not built the package for RHEL 6, and packages that should not have been branched at all didn't bother making one commit
21:55:29 <ianweller> < herlo> i got that. i was confused
21:55:45 <ianweller> < herlo> just because you use a certain language doesn't mean everyone else does, and that's part of what we're trying to accomplish is that we want to talk in the same language
21:56:17 <ianweller> < inode0> i don't *see* hundreds of ambassadors in the US
21:56:33 <ianweller> < inode0> i would estimate more like 50 based on the ones who i am exposed to
21:56:38 <ianweller> < inode0> i haven't seen much growth in that number
21:57:03 <ianweller> < ke4qqq> i think leadership is a place where we've failed to turn it over.
21:57:34 <ianweller> [ talk about taking leadership away from RHT ]
21:57:41 <rbergeron> #idea blame it all on gdk. :)
21:57:54 <ianweller> < ke4qqq> why did you ask your question?
21:58:29 <ianweller> < spevack> i look around the room, see 10 people who are very active in fedora, but i look at someone like rbergeron who has moved mountains within fedora ,and we've had a relatively unambitious two days -- is that because things are kind of ok or is that because we had a lack of ambition at the beginning
21:58:52 <ianweller> < spevack> we talked about a lot of things and there's things we could do but i'm just confused
21:58:57 <ianweller> < makfinsky> you need BBQ.
21:59:25 <ianweller> < herlo> i think i see what you're kind of getting at -- i came here expecting more or less what we did in FAD NA 2008 -- come up with problematic things and find solutions for them
21:59:50 <ianweller> < herlo> a lot of it was stuff that we couldn't do today
21:59:59 <ianweller> < rbergeron> we could solve these in an extended email, and probably more productively
22:00:42 <ianweller> < herlo> not the point -- at the last FADs there were clear problems to solve. these are much harder problems to solve in much cases
22:00:54 <ianweller> < herlo> specifically, we have this FAMNA thing that we have to go through to solve stuff
22:00:57 <ianweller> < herlo> we're past that
22:01:15 <ianweller> < herlo> we're looking at bigger fish to fry -- in the same sentence, i think part of it is that we're debating a lot of what the value of those questions were in the first place
22:01:20 <ianweller> < makfinsky> that'd take a while on a mailing list
22:01:47 <ianweller> < spevack> i see sad faces, little energy, and that makes me sad and worried
22:02:27 <ianweller> < rbergeron> we came with a list of things to do but they weren't targeted around a greater -- when talking about these little tasks, we maybe have found we have a bigger problem?
22:02:36 <ianweller> < ke4qqq> spevack: do you see more deliverables at europe's FADs?
22:02:46 <ianweller> < spevack> we had a bunch but they didn't all get done. lots of actiosn coming out of it
22:03:22 <ianweller> < spevack> a lot of the same kind of "grumbling" i suppose -- mentoring, joreg had strong visions of that, garold saying we want a single supplier of all swag in EU but nobody wants to make it happen, etc
22:03:43 <ianweller> < ke4qqq> do you think the larger issues within the project relate to attitudes?
22:03:47 <ianweller> < rbergeron> morale?
22:03:49 <ianweller> < spevack> maybe
22:03:54 <ianweller> < inode0> what were your expectations?
22:04:04 <ianweller> < herlo> that was going to be my next question. did we have any expectations at hte last FAD?
22:04:32 <ianweller> < rbergeron> well some of us went through and put items on the list of stuff we wanted to accomplish. i feel good about that.
22:05:03 <ianweller> < spevack> my expectations are, does everybody say "i'm glad i took 2 days of my life to work on this" (or 3 weeks for lcafiero)
22:05:48 <ianweller> [ talk about morale and how seeing people in person is a morale booster ]
22:07:02 <ianweller> < herlo> on expectations.. in other FADs, there's a clear leader of who runs each of the conversations. i didn't feel that was true at any point
22:07:12 <ianweller> < herlo> when i was at the events FAD, spevack or mchua_afk were running stuff
22:07:18 <ianweller> < herlo> we have a lot of leaders here (not a bad thing)
22:07:28 <ianweller> < makfinsky> this has felt like an extended brainstorming session on lots of topics
22:07:31 <ianweller> < ke4qqq> those worry me
22:07:35 <ianweller> < makfinsky> why? brainstorming is necessary
22:07:43 <ianweller> < ke4qqq> the problem -- does something come out o fit?
22:07:51 <ianweller> < spevack> as long as they're not all the same
22:14:02 * ianweller has stopped transcribing. everybody's packing up and hungry
23:33:35 <VileGent> i guess everyone is asleep eating BBQ by now
23:51:49 <nb> asleep eating bbq
23:51:50 <nb> nice :)
23:52:41 <VileGent> thats one thing about pork no triptophane
23:57:37 <threethirty> actually we are all playing pool, bbq not served yet
01:11:35 <VileGent> threethirty,  i met one of your buddies this week
03:52:16 <dgilmore> #endmeeting