19:54:35 <spevack> #startmeeting
19:54:36 <zodbot> Meeting started Fri May 21 19:54:35 2010 UTC.  The chair is spevack. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:54:36 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
19:54:51 <spevack> We've had our tour of the http://www.vrac.iastate.edu/
19:55:03 <spevack> Now we're back
19:55:26 <spevack> And our goal is to discuss budget, swag procurement & distribution, regional leadership
19:55:31 <stickster> spevack: Site of a future FUDCon? :-)
19:55:52 <spevack> stickster: it was UNREAL in the VRAC
19:56:21 <rbergeron> the virtual unreality of it all
19:56:29 <stickster> spevack: pics?
19:59:14 * ianweller takes over transcribing
19:59:29 <ianweller> thusfar we're talking about the budget, and red hat's (spevack's) role in the budget for ambassadors
20:00:42 <ianweller> <spevack> we need to recommunicate that there's this publically recorded budget for fedora, and it's supposed to be used for marketing and community building, basically
20:02:13 * ianweller isn't sure what's being talked about at this point (:
20:05:03 <stickster> ianweller: Is there an audio feed that someone can listen in on (no need to talk)?
20:05:14 <ianweller> stickster: unfortunately not set up right now.
20:05:16 <stickster> k
20:05:19 <stickster> brb
20:05:23 <ianweller> rbergeron: can you help transcribe?
20:05:32 <ianweller> or someone :)
20:07:32 <lcafiero> OK
20:08:06 <lcafiero> discussion around budget decisions
20:08:48 <ianweller> we're attempting to set a level of where we have to have max approve
20:09:49 <rbergeron> spevack is talking about credit cards for individual regions.
20:10:05 <ianweller> RH finance is willing to make this happen
20:10:18 <stickster> \o/
20:10:20 <ianweller> < spevack> the level of accountability doesn't change because we're already providing receipts and printing off wiki pages of people
20:10:21 <rbergeron> rh finance is willing to give it a shot; level of accountability won't change, since we'll still be providing receipts to show what fedora is doing.
20:10:26 <ianweller> rbergeron: jinx
20:10:32 <ianweller> (:
20:10:36 <rbergeron> all to make max's life a little better. :)
20:10:45 <ianweller> < herlo> maybe spevack isn't the man we have to talk to all the time
20:10:54 <rbergeron> but we love talking to spevack :)
20:11:04 <ianweller> < spevack> as long as the numbers add up, and it's transparent, and people can discuss that it's being spent wisely, it can pretty much run itself
20:11:23 <ianweller> < spevack> one of the things i would like to get out of htis conversation is if NA as a region feels like it would like to participate, we need to figure out who would be the point-persn
20:11:27 <ianweller> person*
20:11:30 <rbergeron> max would like to see from this conversation if in NA - we have someone to be a point person on being a CC holder
20:11:30 <ianweller> < spevack> RH finance is going to need a name
20:12:02 <ianweller> < ke4qqq> i don't feel that it's a huge obligation for us in NA to have one of those cards if it can be better used elsewhere. we have a lot easier access to spevack, mchua, quaid than the rest of the world does
20:12:13 <ianweller> < ke4qqq> if there's a place where a region having 2 cards is better, i'd forgo that
20:12:14 <rbergeron> ianweller is beating me to every sentence.
20:12:30 <ianweller> < spevack> once confidence grows in RH finance, it can probably be increased
20:12:37 <ianweller> < spevack> they're just worried aobut the total amount of credit out there
20:13:10 <ianweller> < spevack> if anybody ever wants to lose their respect and lose their respect with RHT and run off with a card with a $5K credit limit...
20:13:57 <ianweller> < spevack> this is just a way of cleaning up what we're doing ... instead of 5 people having my credit card number, it can be 5 different numbers -- better transparency
20:14:08 * quaid notes he shouldn't be on that list
20:14:21 <herlo> okay!
20:14:23 <ianweller> quaid: ok you're off now
20:14:25 <ianweller> ;)
20:14:37 <ianweller> < ke4qqq> if we have a single NA card it makes the most sense to me to have inode0 have the card
20:14:41 <ianweller> * herlo seconds
20:14:49 <ianweller> < ke4qqq> assuming another region can't make better use
20:15:06 <ianweller> < spevack> i don't think we have a limit. i'm more worried about other regions saying "we don't want your silly credit cards"
20:15:38 <ianweller> < herlo> that opens us up for some really cool opportunities with marketing -- we can now buy a bunch of CDs or sponsor people's business cards or whtaever's appropriate, easier
20:15:44 <ianweller> < herlo> small amounts of money more quickly
20:16:10 <ianweller> < spevack> it feels to me that it's the last step required to have the FAMNA team to be able to make their decisions completely and finally to get the things they need paid for and be self-sustatining
20:16:16 * ianweller cannot spell
20:16:31 <ianweller> < ke4qqq> i'm concerned that it's going to look like authority rather than responsibility
20:16:50 <threethirty> am i the only one who cant get on the wifi
20:16:58 <rbergeron> ummmm
20:17:00 <ianweller> threethirty: IASTATE?
20:17:02 <rbergeron> yes, apparently
20:17:06 <rbergeron> i'm not sure how you're on
20:17:09 <rbergeron> oh
20:17:11 <rbergeron> phone
20:17:13 <makfinsky> threethirty: You have to go through the registration and disconnect, then reconnect.
20:18:17 <ianweller> < spevack> this is a job for a detail-oriented person
20:18:30 <ianweller> < herlo> the question is, how much work is that
20:18:36 <ianweller> < spevack> it's not that much
20:18:54 <ianweller> < ke4qqq> he says it's not a big deal, but at lunch he was complaining about expense reports. ;)
20:19:05 <ianweller> < spevack> the time sink is when i'm taking all of that times the whole world and getting it in a RHT format
20:20:33 <ianweller> < spevack> what's going to happen is RHT will get the bill at the end of the month, and all they want is the PDFs of the invoice, the fedora contributor's wiki page, and as a bonus, the blog post they wrote
20:20:38 <ianweller> < ke4qqq> ok action item time now
20:20:43 <ianweller> < spevack> do we want to do this?
20:20:52 <ianweller> < spevack> do we want to decentralize this away from me? yes
20:21:30 <ianweller> < spevack> it's about an opportunity to spend more closely to the budget instead of having a lot of money left over
20:26:27 * ianweller was distracted by another channel and is lost
20:26:35 <herlo> consensus
20:29:18 <lcafiero> discussion around sponsorship to events
20:30:17 <lcafiero> < ke4qqq> Made it seems that it only applies to ambassadors instead of anyone who needs sponsorship
20:30:29 <makfinsky> Guidelines vs. Policies. I believe in order to feel comfortable with taking on the spending responsibility w/o having the authoritative aspect of it, we need guidelines rather than policies.
20:30:41 <lcafiero> < herlo> Should make process more visible
20:31:13 <lcafiero> < ke4qqq> who does someone ask?
20:31:41 <ianweller> < herlo> what if we use famnarequests (trac)
20:39:43 <lcafiero> Discussion around handling money ensues.
20:41:30 <ianweller> basically, "who handles it"
20:41:45 <stickster> makfinsky: There will be some requirements that are carved in stone, because those are things Red Hat requires for financial tracking. There should be other "should" factors that are recommendations, some stronger than others.
20:42:41 <makfinsky> stickster: Understood, the things we are talking about here though are inside the scope of the hard boundaries I think.
20:44:18 <ianweller> now none of us know where we're trying to go. :)
20:44:38 <ianweller> < ke4qqq> if i am not an ambassador, or if i'm a $FOO who wants to do $BAR, how do i do that, and who do i talk to?
20:44:47 <ianweller> < ke4qqq> if the answer is spevack it's broken
20:45:17 <ianweller> < spevack> the worry is getting people to stop thinking, if i'm not associated with ambassadors i can't get the money
20:45:41 <makfinsky> Sounds like we are trying to develop a role type solution for finance requests.
20:48:50 <ke4qqq> spevack: I think there needs to be a $role for this
20:48:54 <makfinsky> 1. We need to let contributors/community members that they can get funding for attending events on behalf of fedora and 2. we need a method of making sure that the requests are valid/good/desirable/in-line with Fedora project goals.
20:48:57 <ke4qqq> whether that's famsco or $body
20:49:05 <ke4qqq> is a matter of preference
20:49:54 <ke4qqq> because the alternative is what we have now, right?
20:50:15 <ke4qqq> so additional governance is better than the vacuum/spof now.
21:02:15 <ianweller> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Reimbursements
21:18:24 <lcafiero> Discussion to do away with Regional Ambassador title
21:27:16 <ke4qqq> what did I miss that this got beyond a wiki page?
21:28:32 <spevack> i don't know
21:28:38 <spevack> wiki pages solve everything
21:28:56 <dgilmore> ke4qqq: wiki is easy to ignore/not update etc
21:29:14 <ke4qqq> ok, good point
21:29:25 <spevack> #link https://fedorahosted.org/emea-swag-tracking/wiki/Inventory
21:29:59 <spevack> everyone look at this ^^^^^
21:31:53 * ke4qqq goes to link
21:31:58 * rbergeron already went
21:37:19 <spevack> https://fedorahosted.org/emea-swag-tracking/wiki/Inventory?action=history
21:40:36 <herlo> https://fedorahosted.org/famnarequests <-- what we do now
21:42:01 <lcafiero> https://fedorahosted.org/famnarequests/ <--- where to request stuff
21:42:22 * lcafiero is not as fast a typist as herlo
21:42:34 <spevack> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_budget_template
21:42:39 <herlo> lcafiero: I can copy and paste faster than you :)
21:42:50 <lcafiero> Heh
21:51:31 <spevack> morning --> http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-fad/2010-05-21/fedora-fad.2010-05-21-15.02.html
21:52:43 <ke4qqq> #action spevack ke4qqq - Propose policy for handling all of Fedora's money
21:53:53 <ke4qqq> #action inode threethirty - Do away with regional ambassador titles, purge references on wiki, announce on mailing lists
21:54:58 <ke4qqq> #action herlo - swag inventory - wiki/trac plugin, or alternate solution
21:55:08 <spevack> /nick Mr_Burns
21:55:24 <ke4qqq> #action lcafiero inode0 - budget production
21:56:17 * mchua watches with curiosity - I'm keen to see whether this can be community-ized more than it presently is (not necessarily right away, but over the next year or two).
21:56:58 <rbergeron> this what?
21:57:13 <ke4qqq> mchua: define this - or rather tell us the antecedent to this
21:57:14 <rbergeron> udget stuff
21:57:16 <rbergeron> ?
21:57:18 <rbergeron> errr....budget
21:57:20 <threethirty> oh hai mchua
21:57:36 * ke4qqq waves at mel
21:58:15 <ianweller> it's a mel!
21:58:20 <mchua> Oh, I was referring to "policy for handling all of Fedora's money"
21:59:00 <rbergeron> that's what i said... maybe a .... more community-ized commarch
21:59:06 <ianweller> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Pages_that_need_love
21:59:20 <rbergeron> but.... it could also be in the hands of famsco, or... whomever
22:01:12 <rbergeron> ke4qqq raises his hand
22:01:54 <dgilmore> #endmeeting
22:03:01 <spevack> #endmeeting