13:15:29 <mchua> #startmeeting
13:15:30 <zodbot> Meeting ended Mon Mar 15 13:15:27 2010 UTC.  Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot .
13:15:31 <zodbot> Minutes:        http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-fad/2010-03-14/fedora-fad.2010-03-14-21.38.html
13:15:33 <zodbot> Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-fad/2010-03-14/fedora-fad.2010-03-14-21.38.txt
13:15:35 <zodbot> Log:            http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-fad/2010-03-14/fedora-fad.2010-03-14-21.38.log.html
13:15:37 <zodbot> Meeting started Mon Mar 15 13:15:29 2010 UTC.  The chair is mchua. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
13:15:39 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
13:15:53 <rrix|konv> rbergeron: last night ai commented on my old "hey dawgs, HAL is broken" bug
13:16:02 <mchua> #chair spevack stickster wonderer ke4qqq rbergeron rdieter quaid heffer hiemanshu threethirty nirik rrix yn1v VileGent
13:16:03 <zodbot> Current chairs: VileGent heffer hiemanshu ke4qqq mchua nirik quaid rbergeron rdieter rrix spevack stickster threethirty wonderer yn1v
13:16:06 <mchua> Feel free to chair others.
13:16:10 <mchua> Marketing FAD day 3 START
13:16:14 <mchua> #topic figuring out the schedule
13:16:15 <rrix|konv> and this morning, about an hour after I went to bed, someone commented on it saying "you dawg, erase hdaspd"
13:16:18 <ke4qqq> rdieter: thanks for the sanity check
13:16:21 <rrix|konv> annnnnnnd Guess what works :D
13:16:42 <rdieter> rrix|konv: what was it?
13:16:48 <rrix|konv> hdaspd :D
13:17:07 <rrix|konv> beeecause, I looked at the config file, and it sets up hdaspd for sda... and sdb.
13:17:10 <rrix|konv> ooops
13:18:28 <rdieter> rrix|konv: pardon my ignorance, but what is it and where can I find it?
13:18:59 <rrix|konv> rdieter: it's a daemon for thinkpads and their little motion detector to halt the heads on the hdd
13:19:06 <rrix|konv> hdapsd.x86_64 0:20090401-5.fc12
13:19:21 <rrix|konv> oops, hadpsd
13:19:25 <rrix|konv> hdapsd
13:19:27 <rdieter> I got, No package hdaspd available.
13:19:35 <rdieter> oh, typo
13:19:45 <rrix|konv> yeah, sorry :|
13:19:55 <rdieter> rrix|konv: bz'd yet ?
13:20:16 <rrix|konv> rdieter: which? the hdapsd thinger?
13:20:24 <rdieter> yes.   else, I'll just re-assign the existing bug
13:20:37 <rrix|konv> no, not yet
13:20:49 <rrix|konv> it should be assigned to the HAL folks atm
13:23:25 * rrix|konv reassigned to hdapsd
13:23:33 <mchua> Remotees: we just figured out the schedule for today, and I think stickster_afk is updating the wiki page now
13:24:33 <VileGent> ke4qqq, http://fpaste.org/W5ja/
13:29:26 <ke4qqq> %setup -qn %{name}-2-8
13:30:04 <ke4qqq> %setup -qn pclzip-2-8
13:33:11 <mchua> #topic Red Hat Summit 2010
13:33:22 <mchua> We're going to talk about the RH Summit plans for Fedora this year.
13:33:42 <mchua> For those who haven't been to one before, it's the annual conference where RH tries to get up close and personal with as many customers as possible.
13:33:47 <mchua> (Paul is talking, I'm transcribing.)
13:34:15 <mchua> Fedora has traditionally had  booth presence there, there's a community presence at the summit.
13:34:31 <mchua> The Summit is where RH presents its roadmap for the future, too.
13:34:42 <mchua> That presentation becomes more of a 2-way conversation with customers.
13:34:48 <mchua> Fedora's presence there is in support of that overall goal.
13:35:02 <mchua> So whatever we do as Fedora there has to help sow the part of the ecosystem that some customers don't necessarily see.
13:35:26 <mchua> Some of them may, even today, not understand how the community is a part of all this.
13:35:49 <mchua> It's useful to RH, but also useful to Fedora, because there may be RH customers out there who may be interested in Fedora, looking at it, helping out.
13:37:02 <mchua> #info RH summit a place where RH converses with its customers; Fedora presence supports that by demonstrating the importance of community in the RH ecosystem, but also benefits Fedora because RH customers are sometimes interested in looking at and contributing to Fedora once they find out about us.
13:37:26 <mchua> In the past we've always had a table and we've given out liveusb keys.
13:37:29 <mchua> We provide stickers, etc.
13:37:59 <mchua> This time, we're expanding.
13:38:19 <mchua> We'll have the booth and a liveusb fedora will be given out to all attendees
13:38:40 <mchua> It'll be slightly customized, the only thing is that the wallpaper will have a little "rh summit 2010" watermark
13:38:53 <mchua> and a shortcut to the summit slides page
13:39:07 <mchua> but that's it. we did these customizations last year and we'll do it again.
13:39:11 <mchua> this year we'll have a Fedora room!
13:39:18 <mchua> The room is a place where we can set up demos, 1-on-1 tech help
13:39:25 <mchua> It's wide open.
13:39:54 <mchua> My purpose in having the room is not to stage another track of material that competes with the Summit.
13:40:20 <mchua> Max: Compared to FUDCon, where RH people come in the service of Fedora.
13:40:34 <mchua> Paul: In 2008 we colocated the Summit and FUDCon.
13:40:42 <mchua> That... was not a good idea.
13:41:19 <mchua> Those two events have very different audiences; there's a bit of crossover
13:41:32 <mchua> People who were trying to do both at the same time - it didn't work for them.
13:42:06 <mchua> People's attention was split, they couldn't do what they wanted to do.
13:42:17 <mchua> One of our goals for doing that was to have a gateway for Summit attendees to learn about and interact with Fedora.
13:42:27 <mchua> But that didn't work, because they didn't expect the kind of activity that happened at the FUDCon.
13:42:31 <mchua> And there was no easy way to grok it.
13:43:29 <mchua> So we learned that co-location of simultaneous events with slightly overlapping audiences was... a bad idea.
13:43:34 <mchua> So now we do these events separately.
13:44:53 <mchua> #info FUDCon != RH summit; Red Hatters show up at FUDCon to support Fedora, Fedora folks show up at the Summit to support Red Hat. Symbiosis!
13:45:24 <mchua> One thing I'm pleased about is that the Spacewalk guys are going to be there and want to pow-wow with us.
13:45:45 <mchua> This is great because it shows that RH participates in upstreams other than Fedora - Spacewalk, but also deltacloud, thincrust, etc.
13:47:39 <mchua> I was able to get a bunch of Expo passes - this'll get people into the booth, get them food, everything.
13:48:02 <mchua> You'll be able to get into one track (probably the open source track).
13:48:11 <mchua> The number of passes we can get is somewhat limited.
13:48:16 <mchua> Because passes are expensive.
13:48:32 <mchua> So I want to make sure we have people at the booth.
13:48:41 <mchua> I'd like that to be a mix of volunteers, RH employees.
13:49:00 <mchua> So things we have to talk about:
13:49:02 <mchua> 1. Room schedule
13:49:04 <mchua> 2. People list
13:49:18 <mchua> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Red_Hat_Summit_2010
13:51:09 <mchua> Paul is feeling good about how the planning for this is shaping up.
13:51:28 <mchua> We've had some discussions about having a Fedora press day - which in my mind fits very naturally into the context of a FUDCon, where it's all about Fedora.
13:51:37 <mchua> Not so well into a Summit, where the focus is supposed to be RH.
13:52:58 <mchua> Robyn: But we have this perception that the press comes, talks to people... and then the press goes out and keeps saying the wrong things.
13:53:02 <mchua> So how can we fix that?
13:53:37 <mchua> I'm sure you guys have ongoing relationships with the press, what can we do with that?
13:54:36 <mchua> Paul: I was talking with Joe Brockmeier about this kind of thing; he's back to being a freelance journalist now.
13:54:46 <mchua> About how to get the most out of your relationship with journos.
13:57:59 * mchua proposes a Fedora Press/Analyst day for after the Summit, and just tell journos at the Summit to show up then, or read its logs.
13:58:18 <mchua> #action mchua make RFC for thing-that-is-not-press-conference and send to list
13:59:42 <mchua> Mel: My purpose in suggesting this is to try to satisfy both Robyn's "we need to do PR stuff" comment and Paul's "but not distract the Summit" comment
13:59:58 <mchua> Max: *tells Mel to write up a proposal*
14:00:54 <mchua> Ben: We'll have a mailing address for swag and stuff to send to you?
14:01:07 <mchua> Paul: Yep, we'll have an address set up for shipping stuff a few months in advance.
14:01:32 <mchua> The things we got last time were things like vertical banners, etc... the kind of thing you'd do at any conference with ~1600 people.
14:02:03 <mchua> We don't need to give away media because they have the liveusb, but it's always nice to have extra CDs around.
14:03:27 <mchua> Mel: Is this an opportunity to address the RH/Fedora connection from the Fedora side - ask questions, clarify the relationship between the two?
14:03:41 <mchua> Paul: Yeah, and we can also get feedback from RH customers on Fedora, what they think of us.
14:04:58 <mchua> Mel: Are there things the Fedora community will want to learn about Red Hat?
14:05:33 <mchua> Robyn: Without being a buzzkill.
14:05:38 <mchua> Paul: I think we can effectively filter questions.
14:07:23 <mchua> Mel: I want to dispel the myth of "Red Hat as sekrit cabal puppet-master of Fedora"
14:07:26 <mchua> because that's not what it is
14:07:41 <mchua> and I'd like to do what we can in the Summit towards that - get people's questions answered
14:08:31 <mchua> Henrik: The audience is pretty different, for the Summit there's a lot of business people.
14:08:46 <mchua> At a FUDCon, it's mostly community people - so the press kits need to have different materials for each.
14:09:01 <mchua> So we have to prepare them specifically for the event.
14:09:19 <mchua> it needs to be modular.
14:09:54 <mchua> Mel: how much does that modularity look like our F12 one-page release notes?
14:09:59 <mchua> Paul: Might look a lot like it, actually.
14:10:39 <mchua> #topic Fedora and social networking
14:10:42 <mchua> Max: I'd like to talk about this some.
14:10:58 <mchua> My premise: it's better to not do it at all than to do it in a crappy way.
14:12:45 <mchua> *henrik writes "crisis PR" on agenda - what happens when something bad happens, how do we communicate it?*
14:12:51 <mchua> *mel transcribes that topic to the wiki*
14:13:34 <wonderer> mchua: and: "who" says "what" and "when"...
14:13:49 <mchua> wonderer: Aye. Yeah, I think that's a *very* good conversation to have, esp. while Kara is here.
14:14:01 <mchua> Robyn: Important things to a social networking plan
14:14:02 <wonderer> ack
14:14:05 <mchua> (1) accountability/responsibility
14:14:10 <mchua> (2) consistency (peer review)
14:14:48 <mchua> #info RH Summit an opportunity not just to show Fedora to RH people, but also to answer questions about RH and the RH/Fedora relationship that Fedora people might have; need to find ways to reach out to the Fedora community to see what they'd like to do with this, what they want to answer.
14:15:06 <mchua> (3) low drag vs high context
14:17:59 <mchua> (4) grow audience
14:18:01 <mchua> (5) consolidation
14:18:41 <rrix|konv> rbergeron: I just have one comment: a lot of what can go on twitter is easily automated
14:18:41 <ke4qqq> rbergeron: alot of what can go onto twitter is easily
14:18:42 * mchua notes that she's struggling to keep up with the bouncing convo, I can best transcribe one speaker at a time
14:19:01 * ke4qqq defers to rrix - let me know if you need me to pick it up
14:19:04 <rrix|konv> oh
14:19:06 <rrix|konv> okay
14:19:25 <rrix|konv> rbergeron: we're all really good at filtering things so i don't think we should worry so much about duplicating things as we see it all the time
14:19:56 <rrix|konv> stickster: I would offer that microblogging platforms, twitter, identica etc, are not necesarily a good place to spend a huge amount of time trying to exxert control or establish any kind of rules
14:20:00 <rrix|konv> gregdek walks in
14:20:18 <rrix|konv> stickster: we have one feed, and everyone else having hashtags, etc, to get thing noticed
14:20:35 <rrix|konv> we can have one thing, with regular consisten messages, and everyone else talking in as well
14:20:53 <rrix|konv> rbergeron: instead of a feed or whatever, we could have a "what are other people asying about fedora"
14:21:29 <rrix|konv> spevack: writes: on twitter: 1) planet, 2) fwn, 3) press hits 4) search fo fedora topics and and have some specifics
14:21:35 <rrix|konv> we need to do all of that stuffs
14:21:50 <rrix|konv> 4) is so that it isn't just pr bulls--
14:22:25 <rrix|konv> there are 6000 followers of fedora-Linux, we should work to make it 10 or 20000
14:22:49 <rrix|konv> ke4qqq: we should not make FWN automated, but feature one or two articles from FWn
14:23:17 <rrix|konv> stickster: pcalarco releases FWN each week, it's a 30 second task to add it to hootsuite
14:23:54 <rrix|konv> spevack: we should ocnsider gaining ownership of @fedora, and getting verified accounts set up
14:23:58 <stickster> #action stickster to ask pcalarco to do this through HootSuite
14:24:03 <rrix|konv> it currently has 0 tweets
14:24:11 <mchua> rrix|konv: go ahead and say what you want to say, I'll transcribe 'till you're done
14:24:27 <rrix|konv> mchua: after verified
14:24:36 <mchua> *room is trying to explain the "twitter verified" thing*
14:24:48 <rrix|konv> stickster: twitter is currently only using verified accounts for only certain companies at the moment, not opened up
14:24:52 <mchua> stickster: the verified thing is something twitter does for people who have a well-established trademark
14:24:57 <rrix|konv> mchua: thx
14:25:01 <mchua> rrix|konv: raise your hand, worry about what you're going to say first ;)
14:25:10 <mchua> stickster: RH could probably do it with the Fedora trademark
14:25:28 <mchua> it's an open question whether a community member would have the necessary clout (trademark-wise) in the eyes of Twitter
14:25:35 <mchua> to be able to get the same thing for the Fedora trademark
14:25:46 <mchua> rrix|konv: can I go back to FWN for a sec?
14:25:49 <mchua> we have the summary for each FWN, right?
14:25:56 <mchua> and it takes 1-2 article and pulls it into something that's interesting?
14:26:10 <mchua> stickster: it does a lot, actually - summarizes every section and grabs 1-2 points from each of them
14:26:35 <mchua> rrix|konv: so maybe what we could do is, instead of having pascal do extra work
14:26:48 <mchua> have a line at the top saying "here is the first 30 words" and then have the tweet be automated.
14:26:53 <mchua> stickster: do we have a tool right now to automate that?
14:26:57 <mchua> rrix|konv: it would be easy to make.
14:27:06 <mchua> stickster: can you write it?
14:27:07 <mchua> rrix|konv: Yes.
14:27:18 <mchua> mchua: Fedora engineering services queue.
14:27:26 <ke4qqq> #action rrix to create fwn->twitter automation goodness
14:27:31 <mchua> #idea automatic parser that grabs the first 30 words of Pascal's FWN summary and tweets it.
14:27:53 <mchua> rrix|konv: keep going 'till you're done, I'm still transcribing ;)
14:28:01 <mchua> then when you're done spell me off and I have something to say
14:28:06 <rrix|konv> mchua: i'm done, you're free :)
14:28:10 <mchua> rrix|konv: thankee!
14:28:21 <rrix|konv> ke4qqq: something to keep in mind: we're bound to get some negative feedback because it's not FLOSS
14:28:32 <rrix|konv> #idea feed from identi.ca
14:28:54 <rrix|konv> stickster: we can't keep ourself in the foss corner when it comes to marketing, or we'll never epx
14:28:56 <rrix|konv> epxand
14:29:29 <rrix|konv> mchua: how can we maximize ocntributors using social media. Does more eyes == more help? ZOMG WE HAZ 2000000 view.... and no contributors from it
14:29:54 <rrix|konv> gregdek: We have to articulate call for actions in these messages. Simplify amplify our message: call to action, call to action call to action
14:30:09 <rrix|konv> VileGent: we push both things everywhere: freedom first, then call to action
14:30:33 <rrix|konv> ke4qqq: we were talking about responses. there are tons of bad tweets/dents, etc, are we responding to those? What are we supposed to respond to?
14:30:43 <mchua> Mel: Can we reframe our social media strategy as "how do we use these channels of communication to get us *more contributors*?"
14:30:43 <rrix|konv> ke4qqq: how do we deal with the trolls?
14:31:03 <rrix|konv> stickster: that's something that comes with the territory, it's easy to send off a whiny sms
14:31:15 <rrix|konv> rbergeron: :I'm gonna call the waaaambulance"
14:31:24 <rrix|konv> stickster: we do need some way of replying
14:31:50 <rrix|konv> what tends to happen now is pretty adhoc. most people include #fedora, and people who watch #fedora see it.
14:32:04 <rrix|konv> when I'm having lunch or breakfast, I'll spend a few minutes giving
14:32:12 <mchua> rbergeron: is that just you?
14:32:16 <rrix|konv> rbergeron: is it just you, or are other people responding?
14:32:21 <mchua> stickster: I'm not the only one
14:32:24 <rrix|konv> stickster: in most cases I'm not the first person to respond
14:32:32 <rrix|konv> mchua: :)
14:32:44 <mchua> rrix|konv: you go for it, let me or ke4qqq know when you need a break.
14:32:50 <rrix|konv> k
14:33:16 <rrix|konv> VileGent: I'd gladly help someone but i'm not getting on twitter
14:34:58 <rrix|konv> threethirty: what does @nih use for tweeting?
14:35:43 <mchua> rrix|konv: go, I got transcribing
14:35:47 <rrix|konv> thx
14:35:59 <mchua> spevack: should we be having every fedora tweeter/denter using the fedora account?
14:36:10 <mchua> gregdek: I use twitter to tweet things that are interesting to me
14:36:20 <mchua> and I use the hashtag to mark topics - I do that a lot more on twitter than on other things
14:36:30 <mchua> so maybe one account that does nothing but aggregate fedora tags might be useful.
14:36:44 <rrix|konv> never mind, it looks like threethirty does it by hand
14:36:45 <mchua> ke4qqq: what are we trying to present with this? are we trying to get contributors? users?
14:37:07 <rrix|konv> stickster: so, max wrote a few things (mchua transcribe plz!)
14:37:17 <rrix|konv> Proposed twitter actions
14:37:26 <mchua> stickster: right now we have a lot of one-way conversations.
14:37:31 <rrix|konv> stickster: this is a one way conversation, all we can guarantee contributors
14:37:37 <mchua> rrix|konv: transcribe the talkin' and I'll get the writing into gobby
14:37:42 <mchua> tag team ftw!
14:37:51 <rrix|konv> mchua: that's what I meant, sorry for being nonsensical :)
14:38:05 <rrix|konv> VileGent: I hope you don't mean irc #fedora
14:38:12 <mchua> #info marketing-fad-pr-day is a gobby doc with things on the board from today
14:38:12 <rrix|konv> spevack: that's the last thin we want to do :)
14:38:43 <rrix|konv> rbergeron: what if we just put out content without a real strategy, and see what people bite, what people view, and then figure it out
14:39:05 <rrix|konv> yn1v: we need to have a balance so that we don't have two much noise, or too little useful things, or people unfollow us
14:39:27 <rrix|konv> ke4qqq: f.e. tatica has something which posts all of the music she listens too all day; it drives me nutes, it's way too much noise
14:39:27 <mchua> transcribed!
14:39:32 <rrix|konv> mchua: you ROCK
14:39:38 <mchua> remotees, see the gobby doc for what Max just wrote on the board.
14:39:49 <mchua> rrix|konv: *you* rock
14:39:50 <rrix|konv> stickster: yeah, if we have too much noise, people will hate us, for sms notifications etc
14:39:52 <rrix|konv> mchua: NO U
14:39:54 <mchua> U
14:39:59 <mchua> um
14:39:59 <rrix|konv> NAY THOU
14:40:02 * mchua takes paul transcibey
14:40:15 <rrix|konv> mchua: thanks :)
14:40:16 <mchua> gregdek: so we have a few classes of messages
14:40:25 <mchua> the goal of a fedora feed should be to aggregate only those messages that are about fedora
14:40:30 <mchua> and come from people who are entrusted to speak about fedora
14:40:37 <mchua> so we have 2 entities - we have hashtag, and we have accounts.
14:40:43 <mchua> anyone who uses a hashtag has something to say about fedora.
14:40:46 <mchua> good, bad, indifferent.
14:40:51 <mchua> we want meaningful.
14:40:59 * rrix|konv has picture of the diagram for remotees
14:41:08 <mchua> so what we do is take those #fedora-tagged things
14:41:13 <mchua> and we aggregate that under the fedora ccount.
14:41:15 <mchua> account.
14:41:20 <mchua> all it does is retweet this stuff.
14:41:43 <mchua> retweet #fedora-tagged things that are "blessed" by people.
14:41:47 <mchua> we need to figure out the mechanism for "blessing" people.
14:41:53 <mchua> but we can do that at some point.
14:41:54 <hiemanshu> mchua: we dont want everything retweeted
14:42:05 <mchua> "welcome, so-and-so, to the fedora convo."
14:42:06 <hiemanshu> so someone should do it manually
14:42:18 <mchua> hiemanshu: no, we don't - that's what Greg is talking about, having people to manually filter #fedora-tagged stuff.
14:42:20 <hiemanshu> or write a really intelligent algo to do it
14:42:55 <mchua> ke4qqq: make sure that you can revoke access as well as grant it, as a policy.
14:42:59 <mchua> just in case.
14:43:41 * mchua suggests using our FAS group for this kind of thing, because right now it's pretty useless
14:43:49 <mchua> #idea ask FES to make our FAS group hook into our social media network access
14:44:28 <mchua> gregdek: well, maybe we shouldn't do that
14:44:50 <mchua> these people are already talking about us, if we say "please sign the cla before you get to talk about us in these fora" that's a blocker
14:45:16 <hiemanshu> mchua: we can get openIDs probably, and identi.ca works with openID and identi.ca to twitter mirroring is easy
14:46:47 <mchua> mchua: I'll push back, because if we want our social media strategy to get us contributors, and we say part of becoming a contributor is getting an FAS account, etc - can't we use this as a gateway "yay we love you please come join us more?"
14:47:22 <mchua> gregdek: we have to meet people where they are. we can certainly give those people more call to actions to join us further in the Fedora community, but we shouldn't set up artificial barriers where they're not needed.
14:47:49 * mchua letting that sink in a bit; I think I can separate those things. okay.
14:48:07 <ke4qqq> #action rrix to automate twitter aggregation
14:48:23 <hiemanshu> I can help rrix with that
14:48:44 <yn1v> kudos for rrix|konv
14:49:09 * hiemanshu has worked with twitter api before
14:49:29 <mchua> VileGent: Why are we only talking about twitter right now?
14:49:44 <mchua> rrix|konv: because it's all just APIs - whatever we send to twitter ,we can repoint to facebook, etc.
14:50:09 <rrix|konv> mchua: of course, but pulling from facebook, not pushing to it, is a different thing
14:50:13 <rrix|konv> basically impossible
14:50:20 <mchua> stickster: so where are we - we have more questions than answers right now.
14:50:20 <rrix|konv> for 99% of folks
14:50:29 <mchua> we need some sort of commitment to what we're going to be doing at the next marketing meeting.
14:50:42 <mchua> There are some proposed actions up here.
14:51:04 <mchua> What's easy to do next is - every person here can pick one of these items that we're going to do some research on and see how we can do this.
14:51:23 <mchua> Let's not worry about FOSS vs non-FOSS right now, because otherwise we're going to be really limited to who we can communicate to.
14:51:50 * mchua hopes threethirty will keep pushing us to use FOSS whenever possible, and to bridge to FOSS when it's not possible.
14:52:31 <mchua> yn1v: even if twitter and identica are pretty similar, the people hanging out there are very different.
14:52:47 * mchua wants to do a wrap-up video of social networking and then go see Max's presentation.
14:56:24 <stickster> We can get identi.ca to feed twitter, which means free should be pretty easy as far as *originating* communications
14:57:27 <stickster> We're going across the street for Max's presentation
14:57:36 * rrix|konv &
14:57:46 <rrix|konv> let's see if this connection will persist ;)
14:58:47 <mchua> #topic ORIENTATION VIDEO
14:58:51 <mchua> we're filming and will post right afterwards
15:12:19 <rrix|konv> hiemanshu: think of a name really fast for the tweet tool so I can RFE the fedorahosted space for it :)
15:13:47 <hiemanshu> rrix|konv: tweetgator
15:13:50 <rrix|konv> awesome
15:13:51 <rrix|konv> :D
15:13:55 <hiemanshu> :D
15:13:56 * rrix|konv RFE's
15:14:03 * rrix|konv had bad ideas :)
15:14:09 <hiemanshu> like ?
15:15:21 * rrix|konv is tempted to say Dentgator instead of Tweetgator for the not-twitter relation
15:15:50 <rrix|konv> ohey
15:16:20 <hiemanshu> tweetgator came out of tweet + aggregator
15:16:36 <rrix> awww, i don't have a redhat nat anymore
15:16:54 <hiemanshu> lol
15:16:56 <rrix> ~rrix@nat/redhat/x-snisycegfzedkdma
15:17:26 <rrix> hiemanshu: ident.ca + aggregator to minimize the ZOMG ITS NOT FOR OPEN SAUCINESS! folks
15:17:32 <rrix> in name only :)
15:17:39 <rrix> hi pcalarco !
15:17:44 <hiemanshu> hello pcalarco
15:17:50 <hiemanshu> rrix: identgator?
15:18:04 <rrix> yah, something like that
15:18:06 <pcalarco> hiemanshu and rrix: Hi!
15:18:12 <hiemanshu> or socgator?
15:18:14 <hiemanshu> soc for social
15:19:48 <rrix> #link https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/2042#comment:1
15:19:55 <rrix> hmm
15:20:03 <rrix> I connect soc to summer of code, but that's just me :)
15:20:28 <hiemanshu> rrix: at first I did too :)
15:20:46 <hiemanshu> rrix: change trac to yes
15:21:30 <rrix> d'oh
15:21:31 <rrix> sorry
15:21:39 * rrix copypasta'd
15:22:20 <rrix> k,done
15:22:43 <hiemanshu> rrix: as reporter you can edit it :P
15:23:03 <rrix> ohwell :)
16:05:34 <quaid> pcalarco, hiemanshu - btw, the original goal in picking Zikula was in response to this query we put out in the world - "What upstream CMS wants to participate in Fedora and help us build and maintain a website running on their solution."
16:05:51 <quaid> so the call-for-CMS included that we wanted the upstream involved here; and they have been;
16:06:05 <hiemanshu> quaid: Ah
16:06:09 <quaid> the part in limbo is, what about the longer term?  Who is maintaining this over time?
16:06:24 <hiemanshu> quaid: the websites team will be
16:06:26 <quaid> our original ideal would have been a few people from Zikula, but that hasn't arisen; maybe the expectation was too much to ask for.
16:06:29 <quaid> hiemanshu: right!
16:06:30 <pcalarco> quaid: yes, absolutely, simon has been wonderful in moving this forward
16:06:49 <quaid> which is better, and hopefully simon and others who know/like Zikula will continue to participate.
16:07:08 <quaid> but, yes, in the end Fedora Project's own processes need to own this, as became obvious.
16:07:29 <pcalarco> quaid: Agreed.  To what extent should be get a dev within Fedora cross-trained to back up what Simon does?
16:07:45 <quaid> it is a good point, though, that our maintenance strategy should be revisited to make it clear that Websites has the ball, then we can work on recruiting _in_ to Websites to help with this.
16:08:11 <quaid> right now we have too many points of failure, I appreciate highly that all of us are aware of this and want to fix it :)
16:08:22 <quaid> being in production, with SOP, documentation, etc. will help
16:08:53 <hiemanshu> rrix: ping
16:09:17 <pcalarco> quaid: Great, we are all on the same page, thanks!
16:09:30 <rrix> hiemanshu: pong
16:09:50 <rrix> hiemanshu: we may be heading to lunch soonish
16:10:11 <hiemanshu> rrix: looking at ticket, pointing the more downloads option to get-fedora-all only, or to the kde section?
16:14:21 <rrix> hiemanshu: when on #download, link to all else #downloads.
16:14:22 <rrix> bbl
17:07:34 <pcalarco> does anyone know when the FAD afternoon session is starting back up?
17:08:37 <hiemanshu> pcalarco: an hour or so I think
17:16:20 <pcalarco> hiemanshu: great, thanks
17:45:20 <VileGent> pcalarco_afk, ping
17:45:34 <pcalarco_afk> VileGent: Hi
17:46:26 <pcalarco_afk> I have a meeting here in 15 minutes that will take me away for about 30-40 mins.
17:46:45 <pcalarco_afk> and then I will be back around 2:35-2:45 pm ET
17:46:45 <rrix> lunch was fun
17:47:34 <mchua> pcalarco_afk: Ok - we've got your times in... sorry we missed you earlier!
17:47:36 * mchua reading backlog
17:47:55 <stickster> pcalarco_afk: We're back and will be here when you return!
17:48:01 <rrix> hiemanshu: did you get that stuff for the ticket? does it make sense?
17:48:13 <pcalarco_afk> no problem at all; great, thanks and talk to you then
17:49:04 <hiemanshu> rrix: you should see the change today
17:49:10 <hiemanshu> I am just commiting it
17:50:15 <rrix> Awesome!
17:51:33 <rrix> hiemanshu: fedorahosted done
17:51:51 <rrix> https://fedorahosted.org/identigator/
17:51:55 <hiemanshu> rrix: saw it
17:51:58 <rrix> #link https://fedorahosted.org/identigator/
17:51:58 <hiemanshu> rrix: add me to git
17:51:59 <rrix> k
17:52:05 <rrix> hiemanshu: you're an admin, or should be
17:52:10 <hiemanshu> rrix: not
17:52:13 <hiemanshu> nope**
17:52:14 <hiemanshu> you are admin
17:52:23 <rrix> oh, okay
17:52:34 <rrix> 1sec
17:54:24 <mchua> Identigator?
17:54:25 * mchua looks
17:54:35 <mchua> I'm still confused.
17:54:51 * mchua reads backlog
17:54:52 <mchua> gotcha
17:55:01 <mchua> identigator.
17:55:04 <rrix> mchua: my homework :)
17:55:06 * mchua can haz enlightenment.
17:55:50 <mchua> #topic Introduction to PR (Henrik)
17:56:02 <mchua> spevack, stickster, ke4qqq, rrix... can you guys transcribe?
17:56:12 <ke4qqq> mchua: yep
17:56:15 <mchua> I'm going to have a hard time splitting my attention between lipreading *and* screen and irc
17:56:19 <mchua> thanks
17:56:20 <stickster> wonderer is giving a rundown of good PR now
17:56:23 <hiemanshu> rrix: got the email, added to group part
17:56:32 <rrix> k
17:56:37 * rrix starts hacking
17:56:42 <ke4qqq> wonderer: reading what is good pr
17:56:51 <ke4qqq> are these slides up somewhere??
17:56:59 <ke4qqq> I don't want to transcribe entire slide deck
17:57:26 <mchua> henrik's finding the slide deck link, one sec
17:57:38 <spevack> wonderer is explaining the difference between "promotion", "advertisement", and "public reations."
17:57:54 <spevack> promotion -- talking about yourself.
17:58:03 <spevack> advertisement -- making yourself look good and waiting for people to notice?
17:58:10 <rrix> we can edit the logs later
17:58:12 <spevack> public relations -- having people tell each other how good you are.
17:58:26 <mchua> And we're trying to set up the call so remotees can listen in
17:58:46 <mchua> anyone remote here? hiemanshu, quaid... anyone who wants/needs to be on the line?
17:59:24 <hiemanshu> mchua: I am
17:59:59 <hiemanshu> mchua: not gonna be on the line /me is in the middle of $dayjob
18:00:23 <mchua> hiemanshu: Ok - then we're going to be trying to log here as well as possible.
18:00:48 <ke4qqq> wonderer: talking about basics - you can't not communicate
18:01:05 <stickster> wonderer: Silence makes room for others to tell your story, which may not be the story you want to tell
18:02:18 <stickster> Basic practices:
18:02:21 <stickster> 1. Be active
18:02:23 <stickster> 2. Have a plan
18:02:26 <stickster> 3. Be goal oriented
18:02:40 <stickster> 4. Remember the roles of technician vs. journalist
18:02:48 <stickster> (speak the right language)
18:03:45 <stickster> (Diagram is on the projector now, not easy to transcribe)
18:04:02 <stickster> On the X axis is the public (left) and journalists (right)
18:04:23 <stickster> On the Y axis is the company/project (top) and our community/collaborators (bottom)
18:05:03 <stickster> next slide
18:05:23 <VileGent> fwn should be posted to the marketing mail list +1
18:05:27 <stickster> wonderer talks about news and information -- questions to ask ourselves and the community
18:05:31 <stickster> 1. What is new?
18:05:40 <stickster> 2. What is important?
18:05:43 <stickster> 3. What is interesting?
18:05:56 <mchua> wonderer: if you post these slides up later I'll take a crack at translating them.
18:06:32 * stickster is transcribing basic translations, has a little German to fall back on
18:06:53 <stickster> wonderer describing structured press releases
18:06:54 <VileGent> **structure press release***
18:07:38 <mchua> This will serve us well in terms of having to be able to use a consistent template for our PR.
18:07:47 <VileGent> important stuff comes first
18:07:55 <mchua> ...did I just say "having to be able?" geez, dept. of redundancy dept. Silly lag.
18:07:58 <stickster> Journalists wants to find out the important things quickly -- put it in the first sentence or paragraph
18:08:10 <mchua> "reverse pyramid" style of writing is what I've heard that called ('first thing is the most important")
18:08:12 <stickster> Lead with the most important point.
18:08:17 <ke4qqq> stickster: thanks for picking this up - incredibly verbose.
18:08:44 <stickster> The first sentence conveys the answers to the most important questions (Who, What, When, Where, Why)
18:09:28 <stickster> Include contact information for someone who can answer further questions (email, address/telephone if applicable, email)
18:09:37 <stickster> oops, redundant email)
18:10:24 <stickster> Next slide is funny: "Dog bites man vs. Man bites dog"
18:10:40 <stickster> 1. Who did what to whom?
18:10:44 <stickster> 2. Where did it happen?
18:10:46 <stickster> oops, slide gone
18:10:58 <stickster> This is going too fast for my German :-D
18:11:07 <stickster> 1-13 words -- understandable
18:11:11 <stickster> 25+ words -- difficult
18:12:11 <stickster> Use complete words not acronyms
18:12:20 <stickster> Only write about things you yourself understand
18:12:45 <stickster> Write for an audience of about age 12
18:12:50 <stickster> ^^ me just guessed that one
18:13:13 <stickster> No abbreviations
18:13:28 <stickster> Write out complete names for people
18:13:49 <stickster> Next slide
18:14:13 <stickster> wonderer: describing press list
18:14:33 <stickster> You could give press releases out in person but that doesn't usually scale :-)
18:14:44 <stickster> Build up a list of people and how to reach them.
18:14:51 <stickster> Mailing list -- mostly users are on this
18:15:04 <stickster> * In Fedora, we can send these things to announce@ *and* users@lists.fp.o
18:15:24 <stickster> Local press, open source and Linux oriented press outlets
18:15:45 <stickster> (heise.de, PRO-Linux in .de)
18:16:02 <stickster> blogs, microblogs, podcasts
18:16:24 <stickster> wonderer does a 2-3 minute distillation of FWN for RadioTux
18:16:43 <stickster> Keep your own community informed first, then pass to everyone else
18:16:54 <mchua> Huh, I think I may have heard that mentioned before but never really was conscious of it... how would we find out about all the things people are doing?
18:17:09 <mchua> kital: Joerg! Hey!
18:17:13 * mchua looks for log link
18:17:19 <kital> ;) mchua
18:17:28 <ke4qqq> mchua: good question - I think it's REALLY hard to know
18:17:29 <mchua> kital: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-fad/2010-03-15/
18:17:41 <ke4qqq> if the developers aren't involved in feature process
18:17:46 <mchua> ke4qqq: I usually hope people will magically find their way to the marketing list, but... we, uh, may not be touting that enough
18:17:47 <ke4qqq> or actively yelling
18:17:51 <kital> thanks mchua
18:18:18 <mchua> kital: right now, what's happening is that wonderer is giving us a tutorial in what PR is, and stickster is transcribing his talk and his slides (which are in german, so also simultaneously translating them)
18:18:22 <ke4qqq> I'd suggest that experience shows that they don't come to us
18:18:27 <mchua> it's pretty impressive coordination actually :)
18:18:42 <ke4qqq> really?
18:18:49 * ke4qqq wonders if he has missed things
18:19:09 * stickster reads FWN to find out what people in the community are doing
18:19:13 <stickster> Also logs fo rmeetings
18:19:21 <kital> wow ;)
18:20:07 <mchua> kital: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_FAD_2010#Event_Reports for more of a firehose
18:20:09 <stickster> wonderer now talking about Press kit
18:20:12 <mchua> kital: not everyone's blog posts are up on there though.
18:20:25 * mchua digs up press kit link from last time
18:20:33 <kital> i saw some of them - a lot to read
18:20:40 <stickster> 1. press info on event/product release itself
18:20:55 <stickster> 2. general information about  the organization/sponsors/community
18:20:58 <stickster> 3. Dates and facts
18:21:05 <VileGent> openPR may be of use to us
18:21:18 <tatica> o/
18:21:25 <mchua> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/File:Fedora_10_press_kit.pdf
18:21:29 <rrix> hola tatica !
18:21:30 <mchua> oh wait
18:21:33 <mchua> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_press_material
18:21:42 <tatica> :D
18:21:57 <mchua> tatica: hola! glad you could come!
18:22:12 <mchua> tatica, there's a log at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-fad/2010-03-15/ but it's really really really long
18:22:22 <tatica> jejejej oki
18:22:26 <mchua> tatica: http://blog.melchua.com/2010/03/15/marketing-fad-recaps-red-hat-summit-and-social-media-plans/ may be a faster recap of the morning
18:22:30 <mchua> kital: ^^
18:22:45 <tatica> I can't be too long on the computer, but I'll take the log to bed and read it there
18:22:47 <kital> thanks mchua
18:22:58 * tatica is immobilized :D
18:23:15 <stickster> wonderer is now showing us an example of branding
18:23:24 <mchua> tatica: the videos on the blog post are only about 2m long in total
18:23:38 <tatica> great!
18:23:58 <mchua> Henrik is now showing logos in black and white and challenging us to identify them.
18:24:01 <mchua> We're not doing very well yet.
18:24:08 <tatica> I'm starting to read and see photos today
18:24:33 <stickster> mchua: which really tells you something about the logos!
18:24:41 <tatica> I was unable to touch the pc this weekend (I'm really immobilized)
18:24:49 <mchua> We were able to identify the linux distro logos though :)
18:24:56 <mchua> tatica: yikes. are you okay?
18:25:01 <stickster> wonderer talking about branding info
18:25:17 <stickster> "Who are we? What do we want to be?"
18:25:19 <stickster> oops, he moved on
18:25:22 <tatica> not right now, but I'll be
18:25:30 <rrix> does tatica or kital want to dial in, since we're streaming?
18:25:37 <tatica> SURE!
18:25:43 <tatica> using fp.voip?
18:25:47 <rrix> no
18:25:49 <rrix> uhhh, mchua ?
18:25:50 <stickster> Inner vs. outer PR
18:25:53 <tatica> hahahahahaha
18:25:56 * kital is taking dinner right now
18:26:01 <stickster> tatica: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CommunityArchitecture/Meetings has the number
18:26:05 <tatica> why aren't you using the voip? u_U
18:26:05 <kital> so i will just watch
18:26:11 <tatica> oki
18:26:14 <nb> rrix, fyi if you want hiemanshu to be admin all you have to do is click promote twice
18:26:27 <rrix> nb: ok
18:26:42 <rrix> tatica: we were having trouble with voip saturday
18:27:14 <stickster> tatica: I can get you a local toll-free number, 08001627182
18:27:37 <mchua> Henrik is now talking about crisis management - if something goes horribly wrong (which we hope it won't, but... need to plan for anyway)
18:27:44 <mchua> what do we have to do, how do we communicate what's going on?
18:28:27 * stickster points out that https://fedorahosted.org/csi/ has our security policy and response policy
18:29:24 <mchua> #link https://fedorahosted.org/csi
18:29:44 * mchua looking for specific links to those policies...
18:30:27 <stickster> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_press_publications  <-- has some publication contact info
18:30:44 <mchua> #link http://infrastructure.fedoraproject.org/csi/security-policy/en-US/html-single/
18:30:56 <mchua> ...has a security policy but it's a "how we configure servers" one
18:31:16 <mchua> I'm not finding the "if stuff blows up then these people are responsible for telling these other people in this way" one
18:31:16 <stickster> mchua: No, it includes contact trees for emergencies as well, and an order of operations for keeping people informed
18:31:20 <mchua> oh wait.
18:31:21 * mchua looks again
18:31:23 <stickster> mchua: :-)
18:31:42 <mchua> ah HAH
18:31:45 <mchua> #link http://infrastructure.fedoraproject.org/csi/security-policy/en-US/html-single/#IncidentResponse-Standard
18:31:49 <mchua> I stand corrected.
18:31:52 * mchua reading
18:31:53 <stickster> spevack and wonderer come to good MOs:  "Don't waste people's time," and "Be prepared"
18:32:08 <VileGent> be honest
18:32:22 <mchua> stickster: what if it's not an infra security threat? same kind of structure?
18:32:44 <mchua> VileGent: how do you balance honesty and privacy - stickster, spevack, is there a good way to be honest about the need for privacy?
18:32:48 <stickster> mchua: Describe that threat
18:33:02 <mchua> some sort of "there are things that we can't tell you, and here's why"
18:33:27 <stickster> mchua: That doesn't make sense -- if there's something I can't tell you, my telling you why could be telling you.
18:33:54 * tatica calling, which is the conference code?
18:33:54 <mchua> stickster: Um... a meteor hits the FUDBus, incapacitating half the fedora engineering team all at once for several releases while everyone gets their new cyborg implants?
18:34:02 <mchua> spevack: what's the conference code?
18:34:13 <stickster> tatica: links above, but... https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CommunityArchictecture/Meetings  <-- has the code
18:34:19 <stickster> oops
18:34:22 <tatica> done
18:34:23 <stickster> tatica: links above, but... https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CommunityArchi\tecture/Meetings  <-- has the code
18:34:31 * tatica listening
18:34:34 <stickster> tatica: Make sure your phone is on mute
18:34:37 <stickster> or use *6
18:34:42 <mchua> stickster: how about "$thing happened, we can't reveal the identities of any of the people involved because X, Y, Z"?
18:35:03 <tatica> done
18:35:13 <stickster> mchua: In the cases where we can give the reasons, we should. No question.
18:35:34 * tatica listening mchua :D
18:35:37 <stickster> In the case of the meteor...
18:35:59 <rrix> mchua: mind stepping into #identigator for a minute or two when you have time?
18:36:07 <mchua> stickster: basically, something that isn't a security breach but which significantly affects fedora's ability to Do Stuff
18:36:11 <mchua> rrix: coming now
18:36:20 <stickster> We'd send information to all our announcement lists, as we do with anything of that nature
18:37:01 <stickster> And if there is a need to release it to wider press -- if it involves Red Hat we'd coordinate with them on the content, and if it's purely a Fedora thing, we compose it ourselves.
18:37:39 <stickster> I do think there's opportunity to have planning for that kind of event, but at the same time in the larger view we should make sure we're not "optimizing for corner cases" in terms of prioritizing stuff to do
18:38:50 <stickster> IOW, we can have a plan for how to inform folks, but I don't think we *don't* know how to announce important things in Fedora. We probably need to get from 75% effectiveness to 99%
18:39:02 * mchua nods.
18:39:29 <stickster> The *only* reason that security problem sticks out is because we hit the absolute worst-case scenario where a problem we found in Fedora had implications for Red Hat.
18:39:44 * mchua nods
18:39:48 <stickster> s/implications/significant implications/
18:40:04 <mchua> stickster: is this a history lesson chronicled somewhere that People Should Learn?
18:40:39 <stickster> mchua: Well, it's hard to teach history when you can't show facts behind it.
18:40:55 <mchua> mmmyeah.
18:41:09 <mchua> stickster: is this just a past that we can't really learn from, then?
18:41:14 <mchua> for various complicated reasons?
18:42:41 <stickster> well....
18:42:48 <stickster> it's a past that maybe only a few people can learn from :-)
18:42:51 <mchua> spevack: can you transcribe the in-room convo? I'm in #identigator working out some stuff
18:43:02 <kanarip> stickster, re: Marketing FAD, Day 1 blog-post: If you really think about what makes whom more happy, or should, why isn't your typical fedora contributor / free software developer in your list of 4?
18:43:18 <stickster> and then put systems in place to make sure we can do the maximum to inform everyone if it ever happens again, heaven forfend
18:43:20 <kanarip> (FYI, link to blog post is at http://marilyn.frields.org:8080/~paul/wordpress/?p=3072)
18:43:44 <stickster> kanarip: The list of 4 describes a minimum bar
18:44:23 <stickster> So a typical Fedora contributor/free software developer easily exceeds that description, to be sure
18:44:31 <rbergeron> stickster: are we getting to...... press kit making
18:44:37 <stickster> rbergeron: I'm hoping so
18:44:39 <rbergeron> need to get back on the train here
18:44:43 <rbergeron> no ratholes :)
18:45:07 <kanarip> i think this list of 4 is very much in line with the 4 working target audiences which is why i'm saying; where's the pigs, all i see is talk of chickens
18:49:41 <kanarip> i think there's a huge difference between a "likely contributor" -even if it's the minimum bar and therefor would include the actual contributors- in terms of attracting those people vs. keeping those people interested, maybe even besides the fact that chickens are different from pigs in too many ways
18:53:58 <stickster> The point is that all of us -- contributors, casual participants, and potential collaborators -- share 90% of the things we do day to day
18:54:23 <stickster> the other 10% may be very different, certainly
18:54:25 <kanarip> and that's exactly my point as well, but the complete inverse
18:54:44 <stickster> So if we can do a better job of designing the 90% case, everyone's lives on Fedora get better
18:56:28 <stickster> And we should not necessarily try designing the 10% part, because that's where it's too difficult to reconcile those different needs
18:56:42 * stickster has call in a couple minutes and has to go afk
19:01:04 <mchua> can someone please transcribe yn1v!
19:01:05 <mchua> ?
19:01:19 <mchua> I'm *really* struggling to follow this convo
19:01:27 * rrix too :(
19:03:47 <yn1v> i will wrote what I said.
19:04:37 <yn1v> When I was working for F12 launch party I came across Press kit and was useless
19:05:04 <yn1v> I needed bcakground information, and what new about Fedora
19:06:37 <yn1v> this paper that it designed for go along a USBmedia is not useful for general newspapers, looks as if done for highly technical focused press
19:06:56 <yn1v> Bottom line I like what we have como along in the board.
19:07:16 <yn1v> * I am transcribing from board *
19:08:08 <yn1v> title => Modules for press kit
19:08:28 <mchua> thank you yn1v!
19:08:41 <mchua> yn1v: I'll transcribe the whiteboard to gobby.
19:08:58 <mchua> spevack: can you try to keep up with the convo, or... find someone to transcribe? the usual transcribers are trying to keep up with a bunch of other stuff
19:09:08 <mchua> (rrix and hiemanshu and I are in #identigator working out designs)
19:09:41 <yn1v> mchua, good !
19:14:13 <mchua> #action mchua write a post about melkjug asking if there are interested volunteers
19:14:17 <mchua> just to remind myself
19:14:28 <mchua> #link http://radar.streetsblog.net/
19:14:32 <mchua> is an example of melkjug
19:14:37 <mchua> (see the sliders on the right and play with them)
19:14:44 <mchua> #link https://projects.openplans.org/melkjug
19:14:59 <mchua> is the dev site, this is recently-abandoned software and a few people are trying to revive it
19:15:07 <mchua> (by recently-abandoned, I mean several-months)
19:17:39 <mchua> #topic press kit hacking
19:17:54 <mchua> People have split up into hacking on sections of the press kit.
19:17:57 <mchua> I will post the sections here.
19:18:42 <mchua> ** "About F13" blurb (Neville)
19:18:42 <mchua> ** 4 F's (Robyn)
19:18:42 <mchua> ** Pymodule (Max)
19:18:42 <mchua> ** Stats (Mel)
19:18:42 <mchua> ** Background of fedora (Ryan and Ben)
19:18:44 <mchua> ** Design spin (David)
19:18:47 <mchua> ** Security spin (Henrik )
19:18:49 <mchua> ** USB key stuff (Russell)
19:18:52 <mchua> Any remotees here who want to help?
19:18:53 <hiemanshu> wonderer: you are working on security spin too?
19:19:00 <hiemanshu> mchua: I am on security spin
19:19:29 <mchua> We are going to come back to this at 3:45.
19:19:36 <mchua> Until then people are working on their separate sections.
19:20:31 <pcalarco> is back and on the conference line now; missed most of the press release discussion tho
19:20:37 <mchua> If you're remote and confused about what's going on, speak up and we'll fill you in :)
19:20:40 <mchua> hey pcalarco!
19:20:42 <mchua> Nice timing.
19:20:52 <mchua> pcalarco: when did you leave us - what was the last thing you heard?
19:20:55 <mchua> I'll try to recap.
19:21:29 * hiemanshu is going to call in
19:21:34 <pcalarco> mchua: I heard about the discussion with press releases, discussion of stats, then dividing up into groups to brainstorm
19:21:46 <mchua> Okay. Yes, that's pretty much it.
19:22:02 <pcalarco> sounds like a great group! :)
19:22:03 <mchua> Henrik gave us a "PR 101" overview, we talked about what the press kit has been in the past (answer: suboptimal)
19:22:11 <mchua> and what we wanted it to have for F13, and then beyond
19:22:21 <mchua> and then we split that into sections, and each person is taking a section and trying to draft it up in the next 30 minutes.
19:22:47 <mchua> pcalarco: any particular section you're interested in (or would like to add)?
19:22:59 <mchua> they're meant to be independent modules that you can plug into/out-of a document for a particular event
19:23:04 <mchua> er, a press kit document for a particular event
19:23:08 <mchua> so length is less of a concern ;)
19:23:20 <pcalarco> do we want to brainstorm on Fedora Insight yet, or is deliverables next?
19:24:18 <mchua> pcalarco: ACTUALLY. what might be really nice is writing a Fedora Insight section for the press kit
19:24:32 <mchua> that way the conversation naturally rolls over to FI next, when we get back at 3:45 pm (or 2:45 for you, I think)
19:24:46 <pcalarco> mchua: great, I will start on that
19:24:50 <mchua> pcalarco: thanks!
19:25:01 <hiemanshu> pcalarco: I can help with that if you like
19:26:06 <pcalarco> hiemanshu: sounds good; I am having problems connecting to gobby here
19:34:18 <kital> wonderer: is there a document you are working on related to the security spin?
19:43:45 <mchua> Where do I find a count of the total number of FAS accounts?
19:43:54 <mchua> I swear I've heard this question asked and answered at least twice before
19:43:56 <mchua> but I can't find it
19:44:55 <pcalarco> hiemanshu: working on this at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki//Fedora_Insight/Fedora_InsightPR
19:46:31 <mchua> spevack: y'all coming back together now? I think I mostly have my bit.
19:46:40 <mchua> It's very small and "AGH I CAN'T FIND STATS" full.
19:48:28 <spevack> mchua: yep
19:48:41 * ianweller is sort of kind of around
19:48:43 <spevack> mchua: i was just saying that I will go first, to show people how little I achieved in 30 minutes so others don't feel bad
19:48:49 <spevack> mchua: did you start with /Statistics ???
19:49:17 <mchua> spevack: Yeah, I'm specifically trying to figure out how many contributors we have.
19:49:22 <mchua> And failing. A lot.
19:49:26 * mchua will come back in now
19:49:49 <spevack> yeah... that is a very difficult question to answer, as we've discussed.
19:49:57 <mchua> Yeah.
19:50:40 * mchua grabs the yogurt, grabs the laptop, marches forth
19:51:58 <wonderer> kital: yeah.
19:52:16 <spevack> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Python_in_Fedora_13
19:52:25 <spevack> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:F13_in-depth_features
19:52:34 <spevack> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/EasierPythonDebugging
19:52:39 <spevack> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Python3F13
19:53:19 <mchua> We're going around the room and explaining what we did, and shooting links into the channel of the stuff we've made.
19:54:41 <wonderer> hiemanshu. I'm working on the Security Spin presskit Module, yes.
19:55:36 <hiemanshu> wonderer: Thats about it? /me added more to the doc
19:56:04 <mchua> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F13_press_kit
19:56:09 <mchua> folks, I just added Max's stuff and my stuff there
19:56:15 <mchua> if you have wiki pages you've been working from, please link them in
19:56:52 <kital> that is good to know ;) wonderer if you have any questions you know where hiemanshu and i are reachable
19:57:00 <wonderer> hiemanshu: can you mail it or is it in the wiki already?
19:57:16 <VileGent> gobby.fedoraproject.org  background of Fedora
19:57:44 <kital> hiemanshu: there is a security_spin_presskit doc open in gobby
19:57:47 <wonderer> kital: shure! right now ( I maybe) teaching how to write presstexts and/or how to write for journalists and we are al working on the modules here Live...
19:58:21 <wonderer> kital: the one on gobby I will filling when I get my VM running properly.
19:58:46 <wonderer> kital hiemanshu: please put YOUR updates in the wikipage for security spin. That helps!
19:59:09 <hiemanshu> wonderer: I am editing the gobby doc
19:59:13 <kital> wonderer: link
19:59:16 <kital> ?
19:59:47 <wonderer> hiemanshu: wiki please. Thanks ;-)
19:59:56 <kital> wonderer there is a lot of work done to explain what the security spin is on the links i posted to the gobby doc already
20:00:14 <wonderer> hmm, ok.
20:00:16 <kital> wonderer: link please
20:00:41 <wonderer> kital: as soon as I get to my part right after mel ;-)
20:01:05 <kital> wonderer you asked we should do it on the wiki - where is the link?
20:01:12 <rbergeron> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/File:DraftRobynPress4Fs.odp
20:01:12 <hiemanshu> wonderer: you want to remove everything from gobby doc?
20:01:20 <rbergeron> for reference, that's my random crap coming up soon
20:01:22 <rbergeron> WOOOOOT
20:02:29 <ke4qqq> here is what I generated - which shows I am ignorant in both design and marketing: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_design_suite_presskit_module
20:02:54 <wonderer> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/presskit/securityspin
20:04:23 <hiemanshu> wonderer: there was no F12 relesae
20:04:27 <hiemanshu> release**
20:04:35 <wonderer> hiemanshu: right.
20:05:00 * mchua notices that we don't have any graphics or images in this, is that good? okay? desirable?
20:05:32 <wonderer> mchua: in the ODT Version of me there are pics ;-)
20:05:41 <mchua> nice!
20:05:56 <wonderer> The "Design" Thingy we will take care of later.
20:06:18 <wonderer> I took a LOT of pictures to make backgrounds, pictograms, icons, etc.
20:06:34 * wonderer have the licence thing in mind.
20:07:11 <hiemanshu> wonderer: made changes, looks better
20:07:13 <hiemanshu> ?
20:07:40 <wonderer> hiemanshu: looks good!
20:07:46 <ke4qqq> here is what I generated - which shows I am ignorant in both design and marketing: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_design_suite_presskit_module
20:07:50 <hiemanshu> damn
20:07:55 <hiemanshu> my changes were over written
20:08:55 * mchua asking if we're being redundant with talking point text
20:09:04 <mchua> spevack replies that the talking points are "upstream" content for the press kit modules
20:10:12 <hiemanshu> wonderer: now
20:12:06 <wonderer> hiemanshu: the "why" question is not something for a PR stuff. Its more for a talk. Try to rephrase it more informational.
20:12:26 <hiemanshu> wonderer: I ll remove that section then
20:12:59 <hiemanshu> wonderer: done
20:13:15 <kital> wonderer i have added the section from the talking points page - already reviewed by stickster and hiemanshu
20:13:34 <mchua> spevack: "What we need are the following things in order"
20:13:43 <kital> i think thats it from my side but please inform me if you have done the "prosa"
20:13:50 <mchua> 1) we talk to matthias and say "paul said we want to <help! I'm missing stuff!> how much space there is to fill"
20:13:54 <mchua> and how it will be presented
20:13:56 <mchua> when would you like a first pass of anything
20:14:30 <rrix> .fas matthias
20:14:31 <ke4qqq> stickster: there is a fedora bookmarks package
20:14:32 <mchua> pcalarco: how are you doing?
20:14:36 <zodbot> rrix: counterroot 'Wiora Matthias' <counterroot@openwallet.de> - mkranz 'Matthias Kranz' <mkranz@redhat.com> - mwimmer 'Matthias Wimmr' <matze78@gmail.com> - summerm '' <matthias@summer.co.at> - mbruegge 'Matthias Br├╝gge' <mbruegge@versanet.de> - mwiora 'Matthias Wiora' <opensource@openwallet.de> - endur 'Matthias Haase' <endur@bennewitz.com> - bigmikey 'Mike Matthias' <mikplumb@telus.net> - mrunge 'Matthias Runge' (1 more message)
20:14:49 <mchua> kital, hiemanshu, pcalarco - following ok? we're not doing a very good job of transcribing right now
20:14:55 <rrix> mkranz?
20:14:57 <wonderer> kital: Ok. I will do merge them after I translated my slides from Linuxtag about "Opensource presswork and PR work"
20:15:03 <ke4qqq> spevack: what's in there needs to be refreshed
20:15:06 <pcalarco> mchua: my stuff is up on the wiki stub page
20:15:10 <ke4qqq> stickster: it's not horribly out of date
20:15:14 <hiemanshu> pcalarco: link
20:15:23 <mchua> pcalarco: you rock.
20:15:27 <pcalarco> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Insight/Fedora_InsightPR
20:15:28 <stickster> ke4qqq: Well, it's not a horrible list... but it certainly hasn't been revised in a while
20:15:31 <ke4qqq> spevack: it should be reviewed every cycle - and marketing should own that process
20:15:32 <kital> mchua: all is good - you are doing great
20:15:43 <mchua> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Insight/Fedora_InsightPR
20:16:02 <ke4qqq> spevack: someone should take action item to review what's currently in fedora-bookmarks
20:16:06 <hiemanshu> pcalarco: looks perfect
20:16:08 <mchua> pcalarco: do you want to talk about that section for a bit? what needs to happen with it to finish it up, whether this has been a useful exercise?
20:16:08 <ke4qqq> and suggest a diff at next mktg meeting
20:16:23 <ke4qqq> and mktg can pass on it's recommendation
20:16:23 <pcalarco> mchua: sure
20:16:27 <hiemanshu> mchua: you are spamming #link
20:16:35 * mchua spammity spam spams
20:16:44 <mchua> #undo
20:16:44 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Link object at 0x2842ed90>
20:16:49 <mchua> thar we go
20:16:50 <ke4qqq> #action rharrison is picking up fedora-bookmarks review
20:17:22 <mchua> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_meetings
20:17:27 <mchua> feel free to add to the meeting agenda!
20:18:17 <pcalarco> phone audio pretty inaudible something happened, methink
20:18:58 <mchua> pcalarco: maybe the mic battery died, we're checking
20:19:27 <mchua> pcalarco: better?
20:19:32 <mchua> batteries are being replaced
20:19:41 * hiemanshu is going to call in
20:20:02 <hiemanshu> mchua: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Community_Architecture_meetings are the numbers right?
20:20:46 <spevack> hiemanshu: yes
20:21:26 <mchua> hey nb!
20:21:53 <spevack> rharrison: http://mspevack.fedorapeople.org/fedora-13-alpha-default-bookmarks.html
20:21:58 <spevack> rharrison: that's what needs refreshing.
20:22:01 <spevack> not hard at all
20:22:05 <mchua> nb, we just wrote up some modules for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F13_press_kit real quick (in the last 30m) and are going over that, figuring out how it went, what holes we have.
20:22:26 <spevack> rharrison: i'll actually whip up a proposal right now :)
20:23:47 * kanarip mentions fedorasolved.org, unity's primary site for user oriented solutions and documentation
20:24:16 <stickster> VileGent worked on background of Fedora
20:24:37 <kanarip> euh, so?
20:24:42 <mchua> #link http://fedorasolved.org
20:24:43 <stickster> Took some of the wording from Wikipedia into our document
20:24:54 <mchua> kanarip: want to elaborate in-channel?
20:25:04 <kanarip> mchua, sure
20:25:51 <kanarip> thousands of users end up on fedorasolved.org, and it contains the most prominent set of documented solutions for users
20:26:21 <kanarip> when i say thousans, i actually intend to say tens of thousands per month
20:26:52 <kanarip> 41k unique visitors last month alone
20:27:15 <mchua> kanarip: (want me to voice you to the room?)
20:27:22 <kanarip> so maybe that's the url that deserves an entry in the default bookmarks as well
20:27:38 <kanarip> is voice going to add anything to what i'm saying? ;-)
20:27:42 * mchua doesn't know the history of the relationship between fedorasolved and other parts to fedora
20:27:53 <mchua> kanarip: it means the folks in the room will be more conscious of what you've just typed :) not everyone is watching irc all the time
20:28:35 <pcalarco> * has a hard stop in 12 minutes, unfortunately
20:28:45 <kanarip> neither am i around all the time, i'm just making a suggestion since the topic of bookmarks came up
20:29:13 * spevack is working on a new proposal for bookmarks
20:29:17 <kanarip> 70% of our 41k visitors is new visitors
20:29:39 <kanarip> spevack, mind working with what i just said? ;-)
20:30:06 <spevack> kanarip: i'm replacing fedora unity with fedora solved
20:30:24 <kanarip> spevack, awesome, maybe the title can be more descriptive too?
20:30:41 <stickster> "Community answers to community questions"
20:30:47 <kanarip> mchua, Fedora Unity (that runs Fedora Solved) has a long, long standing relationship with Fedora
20:30:57 <mchua> pcalarco is on the phone chiming in on FI!
20:31:01 <mchua> can someone transcribe the phone?
20:31:04 <mchua> (who's not pascal)
20:31:08 * ke4qqq will
20:31:20 <mchua> thanks, ke4qqq!
20:31:23 <ke4qqq> pcalarco: there are probably other ideas for categories of content
20:31:33 <ke4qqq> pcalarco: multimedia also looms large
20:31:47 * mchua just asked for the 30sec recap of where we stand
20:31:53 <kanarip> stickster, sounds more appealing then "Fedora Unity" doesn't it? ;-)
20:31:54 <ke4qqq> pcalarco: a lot of work on pt6 - theming changes
20:32:06 <ke4qqq> pcalarco: latest versions of zikula
20:32:15 <kanarip> stickster, spevack, thanks ;-)
20:32:20 <stickster> np
20:32:27 <ke4qqq> pcalarco: some done of the work done has been moved to staging
20:32:32 <kanarip> if anyone wants some numbers off of fedorasolved.org please let me know
20:32:48 * ke4qqq asks if pagemaster has to go in infra repo
20:32:57 <ke4qqq> pcalarco: what would be most helpful for moving this forward now
20:33:07 <ke4qqq> is define milestones and work backwards from there
20:33:18 <ke4qqq> see if we can plan it into their time between now and $milestone
20:33:24 <ke4qqq> it's been a very ad-hoc activity
20:33:38 <ke4qqq> if we don't plan out more, risk of not hitting target
20:33:52 <ke4qqq> longer term issues include getting more people to do support work type stuff
20:34:20 <ke4qqq> stickster: the rundown on the insight page - if I am looking at that and want to see a summary ore a list of remaining tasks - is that where to start
20:34:30 <ke4qqq> pcalarco: we need to break that up and archive some stuff
20:34:38 <ke4qqq> pcalarco: tickets on page still active and current
20:34:49 <ke4qqq> stickster: wonder if there is a link to a queue
20:36:49 <spevack> rharrison: at this point, i might as well own the bookmarks action item :)
20:37:02 <ke4qqq> mchua: talking about getting students to do some zikula work
20:37:31 <mchua> pcalarco: Should we just start scheduling weekly work sprints to push us out
20:37:34 <mchua> the door?
20:37:34 <ke4qqq> VileGent: is it supposed to be a replacement for planet
20:37:42 <mchua> stickster: no, it is not
20:37:45 <pcalarco> mchua: yes, I think so
20:37:48 <mchua> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Insight
20:38:20 <mchua> pcalarco: Okay, let's do that then. I think we were originally talking about Wednesday nights... whatever works for you and quaid and hiemanshu and itbegins will work for me.
20:38:48 <pcalarco> mchua: sounds good; I will touch base with all and set up a Doodle poll
20:39:13 <ke4qqq> stickster: is pascal still here
20:39:26 <mchua> #action pcalarco scheduling FI weekly sprint meeting, trying to fit schedules of pcalarco, quaid, itbegins, hiemanshu, mchua
20:39:28 <hiemanshu> mchua: works for me
20:39:30 <mchua> (and then others who are interested)
20:39:44 <mchua> hiemanshu: we should try to schedule it so that it's not 3am for you or something
20:39:58 <hiemanshu> mchua: any time before 5AM works for me
20:40:06 * mchua shakes head, grins.
20:40:07 <mchua> okay.
20:40:08 <hiemanshu> mchua: $dayjob ends at 4AM
20:40:13 <mchua> incorrigible, you are.
20:40:25 <hiemanshu> then few hours of sleep and college
20:42:06 <rrix> !!!! irssiproxy randomly started working :>
20:42:20 <mchua> ...i have no idea what that is. *googles*
20:43:19 <rrix> rbergeron: you could have asked me to move :-)
20:44:01 <stickster> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:F12_in-depth_features
20:45:18 <rbergeron> rrix: what are you talking about
20:45:33 <rrix> you came back over here when I moved back to where i am
20:45:38 <rbergeron> oh
20:45:42 <rbergeron> i just moved back
20:45:55 <rbergeron> i moved back there because otherwise i'd be getting all nosy in everyone else's stuff
20:46:03 <mchua> ke4qqq: um... can you help summarize what Pascal and Paul are talking about? I have... utterly lost this thread of conversation.
20:46:04 <rrix> oic
20:46:15 <ke4qqq> mchua: sorry - I fail - let me pick up
20:46:32 <mchua> ke4qqq: no, no, you've been *awesomely* helpful, I'm just being annoyingly demanding :)
20:46:32 <ke4qqq> stickster: talking about media fallback so people without $mediafeature araen't left out
20:46:36 * stickster points pcalarco at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SystemTap_in_Fedora_12
20:47:16 <ke4qqq> pcalarco: how do we provide a teaser for the video
20:47:39 <ke4qqq> stickster: what frame do we capture
20:47:46 * hiemanshu is trying to get VoIP working to call in
20:47:52 * stickster just raising questions, knowing we need to answer them
20:48:03 <ke4qqq> pcalarco: people expect first frame - ex. mels blog posts of videos
20:48:12 <ke4qqq> stickster: questions 1. how to present content and the worflow
20:48:23 <ke4qqq> 2. how to present proper rss feed that work
20:48:41 <ke4qqq> stickster: we also need to make zikula send out notices to a variety of feed sites such as feedburner
20:48:54 <pcalarco> #link http://publictest6.fedoraproject.org/zikula/index.php?theme=RSS
20:49:01 <ke4qqq> stickster: when we publish - it should arrive at feed burner and the like
20:49:23 <pcalarco> itbegins, hiemanshu and I worked on this yesterday, RSS feeds for general news items
20:51:16 <pcalarco> I have to head out now
20:52:06 <stickster> #agreed Marketing team meetings should be used to assess the state of the Insight queue (review, editing, approval, publication)
20:52:33 <yn1v> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/About_F13
20:52:39 <stickster> yn1v: Thanks!
20:52:51 <mchua> #idea Fedora Insight content queue approval (editorial decisions) should happen in marketing meetings, when we have queue decisions to be made.
20:52:56 <mchua> #undo
20:52:57 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Idea object at 0x28799e50>
20:53:02 <mchua> (whoops, I'm redundant and don't read scrollback first)
20:55:15 <hiemanshu> god damn VM crashed and brough computer down, not VM is dead :(
20:55:25 <ke4qqq> stickster: sorrry - bright shiny distracts me apparently
20:56:51 <stickster> Would it work to make different "About" pages that are more targeted at different types of readers?
20:57:56 <hiemanshu> s/not/now
20:58:05 <wonderer> btw.: http://www.braincache.de/wp/2010/03/15/successfull-pr-work-in-the-foss-world/
20:58:52 <wonderer> hopefully my english is understandable ... translating is not easy.
20:59:52 <mchua> #link http://www.braincache.de/wp/2010/03/15/successfull-pr-work-in-the-foss-world/
21:00:32 * mchua asks stickster for his requirements for the press kit
21:00:37 <mchua> "what do you need by when?"
21:00:45 <mchua> stickster: we want to put a physical copy in front of actual people at the summit
21:00:52 <mchua> which is june 21st or something
21:02:50 <spevack> #link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/marketing/2010-March/012031.html
21:11:46 <spevack> rharrison: i stole your action item because I needed to *do something now* :)
21:11:49 <spevack> sorry
21:12:25 <rharrison> like I'm going to be upset about getting out of work? ;-)
21:14:17 <rrix> You should! :)
21:17:29 <ke4qqq> #action stickster check with summit organizers for schedule of production of paper goods and handouts, etc
21:19:40 <VileGent> #action stickster see if these material also can be included in the event bags
21:19:53 <VileGent> or will be included
21:24:44 <mchua> rrix: https://projects.openplans.org/melkjug
21:24:54 <mchua> rrix: actually come into #melkjug
21:24:57 <mchua> ltucker is the guy I'm talking to
21:33:04 * rrix yawwwwwns
21:37:09 <mchua> For the remotees: We are trying to figure out tomorrow's schedule.
21:37:16 <mchua> Yea verily, it will be gobbified when the time comes.
21:37:26 <mchua> And we are hanging up the phone because it keeps on breaking.
21:41:42 <hiemanshu> rrix: its not even 6 and you are yawning?
21:42:03 <hiemanshu> rrix: imagine my state :P
21:42:34 <rrix> lol
21:43:11 <hiemanshu> anyways change of plans, no sleep today, I am off to the lake
21:43:20 <rrix> lol
21:44:06 <hiemanshu> and since tomorrow is a festival holiday
21:44:09 <hiemanshu> no sleep tomorrow too
21:49:50 <rrix> mchua: -> #melkjug
21:53:11 <mchua> yessir
21:53:12 * mchua goes
22:00:30 <rrix> Who wants it? https://bugzilla.rpmfusion.org/show_bug.cgi?id=993 :)
22:01:37 * mchua actually is liking pitivi from early explorations with it thus far.
22:01:43 <mchua> it's packaged for fedora, too.
22:01:48 * rrix maintains kdenlive and the mlt packages
22:07:38 <rrix> spevack: http://kushaldas.in/2007/05/ ? :)
22:07:51 <spevack> rrix: yep
22:07:56 <rrix> :)
22:21:39 <wonderer> http://www.archive.org/details/InterviewOfMax
22:28:40 <mchua> Okay.
22:28:50 <mchua> We're winding down for the day, packing for dinner.
22:31:53 <mchua> I'm transcribing tomorrow's schedule to the wiki page, I'm going to send it to the list momentarily.
22:34:16 <mchua> All right, email sent.
22:34:22 <mchua> Closing logs, opening them for the evening.
22:34:23 <mchua> #endmeeting