21:38:26 <mchua> #startmeeting 21:38:26 <zodbot> Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-fad/2010-03-14/fedora-fad.2010-03-14-13.41.html 21:38:28 <zodbot> Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-fad/2010-03-14/fedora-fad.2010-03-14-13.41.txt 21:38:30 <zodbot> Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-fad/2010-03-14/fedora-fad.2010-03-14-13.41.log.html 21:38:32 <zodbot> Meeting started Sun Mar 14 21:38:26 2010 UTC. The chair is mchua. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 21:38:33 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 21:41:07 <stickster> Thanks to any listeners! 00:36:39 <mchua> We've just gotten back to the hotel and are setting up in the antelounge for the Late Late Show 00:36:54 <mchua> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_FAD_2010#The_optional_.27late_late_show.27_2 00:39:58 * rrix ches on mchua 00:40:01 <rrix> chews 00:43:46 <herlo> heh 00:44:30 <rrix> moin herlo 00:45:06 <herlo> ") 00:46:02 <mchua> nom nom nom. 00:46:12 <mchua> Everyone is the ze lounge. 00:46:23 * ke4qqq announces that we will start the late late show at 8:53:32 - or within a couple minutes thereof 00:47:27 <mchua> #topic prelude to the late late show 00:47:31 <mchua> cue the dancing monkeys! 00:47:32 <mchua> penguins! 00:47:33 <mchua> whatever! 00:47:52 <mchua> #chair yn1v rbergeron ke4qqq wonderer rrix VileGent stickster 00:47:53 <zodbot> Current chairs: VileGent ke4qqq mchua rbergeron rrix stickster wonderer yn1v 00:48:02 <mchua> Feel free to chair whoever else wants charin'. 00:48:06 <mchua> chairin'. 00:49:22 <ke4qqq> wow 100% attendance from the hotel crowd 00:50:47 <ke4qqq> #topic Late Late Show - What we will cover tonight. 00:50:55 <VileGent> gobby 00:51:03 <ke4qqq> there is a gobby session open 00:51:24 <mchua> We're going to talk about packaging 00:51:30 <mchua> the mechanics, maybe play with a sample spec file 00:51:33 <mchua> generate it into an rpm 00:51:33 <VileGent> samplespecfile.phpget.txt 00:51:39 * mchua transcribing David 00:51:52 <mchua> The hard part is when you have to integrate it into a distribution and follow the guidelines. 00:52:00 <mchua> If you don't care about doing it right, specfiles are easy. 00:52:14 <mchua> Paul: Doing it in a way that'll get it accepted is hard. 00:52:40 <mchua> David: I was making RPMs way before I got into Fedora, part of that was because I was the standard of excellence at work *laughs* and I didn't need to worry about getting it into Fedora. 00:52:54 <mchua> Anyway. The way RPMs are generated is that rpmbuild reads a specfile. 00:53:00 <mchua> That spec file looks at what needs to be installed, etc. 00:53:06 <mchua> so the first thing we're going to do is look at a spec file. 00:53:44 <mchua> *everyone looks at gobby doc that VileGent just pointed out* 00:54:04 <mchua> emacs and vim have specfile editing plugins 00:54:13 <mchua> depending on the IDE you use you might have it there too 00:54:33 <mchua> Within Fedora, sticking to the guidelines are the hard part. 00:54:37 <mchua> We'll talk about those later. 00:55:19 <mchua> stickster: the easiest way to get a skeleton is to run rpmdev-newspec 00:55:34 <mchua> it has a switch, -t for type 00:55:41 <VileGent> rpmdev -newspec 00:55:47 <mchua> whoops 00:55:52 <mchua> yep, typing 00:56:05 <mchua> VileGent: actually, no space 00:56:16 <mchua> [mchua@vorpal:~]$ rpmdev-newspec 00:56:23 <mchua> Skeleton specfile (minimal) has been created to "newpackage.spec". 00:56:27 <stickster> That's one command name 00:56:28 <mchua> (is what I get) 00:56:29 <stickster> rpmdev-newspec 00:56:33 <stickster> such as: 00:56:39 <stickster> rpmdev-newspec mypackage 00:56:58 <mchua> #info rpmdev-newspec is a useful command that generates a skeleton spec file 00:57:20 <mchua> #info making an rpm isn't hard; that means making a specfile that rpmbuild can read. Following the packaging guidelines is the hard part. 00:59:00 <mchua> Another good way of learning packaging is looking at packages that experienced people have already made, and copying them. 00:59:33 <mchua> Also, there are "lint" programs - rpmlint, <$foo>lint, etc - these are checking scripts that will run and try to catch little errors. 00:59:44 <VileGent> rpmlint finds bugs in your spec file 00:59:53 <stickster> And your binary RPMs and SRPMs 01:00:10 <mchua> #info rpmlint is a useful tool to check for bugs in your spec file, binary RPMs, and SRPMs. 01:00:34 <stickster> e.g.: 'rpmlint mypackage.spec mypackage-1.0-1.x86_64.fc13.rpm mypackage-1.0-1.fc13.src.rpm 01:00:36 <stickster> ' 01:01:56 <stickster> Understand release tags -- numbering guidelines are found here: 01:02:32 <stickster> #info Release numbering is important, refer to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:NamingGuidelines 01:03:36 <rrix> #info %{foo} are macros 01:04:03 <stickster> #info %(something) is an evaluated shell command 01:04:16 <stickster> %(echo 'hi') ==> hi 01:07:09 <stickster> #info Licenses should match the license of the code (don't forget to look for all the licenses) 01:07:22 <stickster> #info License codes for spec files are found at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Licensing 01:08:28 <mchua> Is there a place that lists all the %{macros}? 01:08:58 <stickster> mchua: /usr/lib/rpm/macros and such 01:10:33 * ianweller is here and pingable, fyi 01:15:54 <stickster> The draft rpm guide has some detailed information about RPM: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/drafts/rpm-guide-en/ 01:20:22 <rrix> and there is the max rpm book 01:24:36 <stickster> rrix: Yepperes 01:24:39 <VileGent> ALL see http://spot.fedorapeople.org/Summit2008/ | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_create_an_RPM_package | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/BuildingPackagesGuide | https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging | 01:26:09 <rrix> #link http://www.redhat.com/docs/books/max-rpm/ 01:53:24 <mchua> rbergeron: Did you want to talk about survey design sometime tonight? 01:54:16 <rbergeron> mchua: errrrgh. maybe? 01:56:06 <ke4qqq> rpmdev-setuptree 01:57:16 <mchua> rbergeron: if it's not the right time, or we're all too tired, that's totally ok, I just don't want to drop it if you want to do it 01:57:47 <stickster> #info stickster did a bunch of annotation of the spec file 01:58:23 <stickster> #info stickster's annotation is not nearly as good as what you find in spot's tutorial 01:59:05 <rrix> Nexuiz-data is 800MB :( 01:59:20 <rrix> This install better be finished REALLY soon :| 02:02:23 <mchua> Question that may have been answered earlier: line 17-19 of the specfile, is there an advantage to having multiple BuildRequires lines? 02:02:37 <mchua> iow, why not do "BuildRequires: dos2unix, foobar, yoyoyo2, blahblah, foobar3 02:02:40 <mchua> " 02:02:47 <mchua> instead of splitting it up over 3 BuildRequires lines? 02:03:29 <stickster> Link to source: http://launchpad.net/php-gettext/trunk/1.0.9/+download/php-gettext-1.0.9.tar.gz 02:04:10 <rrix> mchua: readability 02:04:16 <ke4qqq> ~\rpmbuild 02:04:26 <ke4qqq> ~\rpmbuild\SPECS 02:04:33 <ke4qqq> ^^ spec file goes there 02:04:38 <ke4qqq> ~\rpmbuild\SOURCES 02:04:45 <ke4qqq> ^^ sources go there 02:05:42 <rrix> rpmbuild -ba <specfile> 02:05:51 <rrix> in 24 02:05:59 <rrix> oops, scratch that 02:06:30 <ianweller> mchua: if you have something that has about 30 BuildRequires, it's nice to split it over a few lines 02:06:44 <ianweller> mchua: i usually wrap everything in a spec to about 80 characters out of habit 02:06:52 <ianweller> unless i'm really lazy 02:07:03 <rrix> I group Requires and BR's kinda by groups 02:07:06 <rrix> BR: KDE stuff 02:07:15 <rrix> BR: appspecific stuff 02:07:18 <rrix> BR: other 02:07:22 <rrix> and the same for requires 02:07:40 <ke4qqq> so your srpms are: ~\rpmbuild\SRPMS\ 02:08:04 <ke4qqq> and your rpms are in: ~\rpmbuild\RPMS\<arch>\ 02:15:46 <ke4qqq> mchua: make sense? workforyou? 02:27:29 <mchua> worksforme, thanks! 02:27:35 <ke4qqq> mchua: awesome!!! 02:27:56 * stickster sees windows-isms from ke4qqq and laughs :-) 02:28:26 <ke4qqq> test ~/ 02:28:33 * ke4qqq sucks 02:28:33 * stickster notices that now we have another ke4* nick in here and it makes his tab weird :-D 02:28:58 <stickster> Aha, another Nalley! 02:28:59 <stickster> awesome 02:29:33 <ke4qqq> rpmbuild -ba /ath/to/spec 02:30:21 <ke4qqq> ^^ builds both binary and source rpms 02:30:28 <stickster> -ba == build all 02:30:31 <stickster> -bb == build binary 02:30:40 <stickster> -bs == build source RPM only 02:31:10 <ke4qqq> rpmlint /ath/to/spec 02:31:22 <ke4qqq> rpmlint /path/to/srpm 02:31:25 <ke4qqq> rpmlint /path/to/rpm 02:31:53 <rrix> ke4qqq: and combinations :) 02:37:21 <rrix> .fasinfo pfrields 02:37:23 <zodbot> rrix: User: pfrields, Name: Paul W. Frields, email: stickster@gmail.com, Creation: 2005-04-13, IRC Nick: stickster, Timezone: America/New_York, Locale: en, Extension: 5100077, GPG key ID: BD113717, Status: active 02:37:27 <zodbot> rrix: Approved Groups: gitfedora-web sysadmin-test elections @gitjargon-buster sysadmin-tools +svnaccessibility-guide gitcorrespondingsource @gitrpmguide @gitboard @gitpulsecaster designteam @fedoraldc @fedora-board gitcsi sysadmin triagers sysadmin-noc cla_done web fedorabugs cvsfedora packager @docs ambassadors art +news cla_fedora @accounts torrentadmin disabled_torrent @gitrelease-notes bzrpython-fedora (1 more message) 02:39:35 <ke4qqq> more 02:39:40 <rrix> .more 02:39:41 <zodbot> rrix: @gitinstall-guide @gitabout-fedora @githomepage @gitreadme @gitreadme-live-image @gitreadme-burning-isos @gitfedora-doc-utils @gittranslation-quick-start-guide irc-support-operators freemedia 02:39:54 <rrix> ke4qqq: :) 02:39:57 <rbergeron> php-gettext.noarch: I: enchant-dictionary-not-found en_US 02:40:18 <rrix> note that isn't E: or even W:, it's I:, important 02:40:31 <rrix> so it's still running the tests, just skipping the spell check :) 02:46:24 <stickster> .bug 573716 02:46:25 <zodbot> stickster: Invalid Bug ID - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=573716 02:46:29 <stickster> oops 02:46:32 <stickster> .bug 573516 02:46:34 <zodbot> stickster: Bug 573516 rpmlint should require hunspell-en - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=573516 02:47:28 <rrix> yay4bugs! 02:53:34 <wonderer> bughug 03:01:39 <rrix> .bug 518817 03:01:42 <zodbot> rrix: Bug 518817 perl-Bit-Vector-7.1 is available - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=518817 03:02:38 <yn1v> finally I have uploaded pictures ... http://picasaweb.google.com/nacross/MarketingFAD2010 03:02:50 <rrix> .bug 508817 03:02:53 <zodbot> rrix: Bug 508817 Review Request: Limesurvey - An open source survey application - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=508817 03:05:41 <ke4qqq> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/PHP#NamingScheme 03:10:28 <wonderer> yn1v: hurra, finally I saw how bad I look in the morning :-) 03:37:53 <mchua> See, not sleeping yet. :) 03:38:13 <ke4qqq> we expect regular pings to prove it 03:38:43 <ke4qqq> but but.....we are all guests 03:38:52 <ke4qqq> he brings out the good coffee when the guests leave 03:38:55 <ke4qqq> what?? 03:39:09 <rrix> ke4qqq: :) 03:39:17 <rrix> good is subjective ;) 03:39:22 <rrix> I'll be thejudge! 03:39:32 * rrix gets ready for 4am jitters 03:39:37 <ke4qqq> even so - he brings out the coffee that is good in his mind when the guests leave 03:39:40 <ke4qqq> ?huh 03:39:55 <rrix> hah 03:39:59 <ke4qqq> you get less of that when you mainline caffeine - though freebasing is better 03:40:14 <rrix> "no one here, guess i'll put out the good coffee for 9 hours from now, so it'll be that bad then" :) 03:51:19 <mchua> are people starting to trickle out already? 03:51:21 <rrix> I hope you all sleep well, leaving me out here and all :( 03:51:24 * mchua sees rbergeron just got in 03:51:25 <rrix> mchua: I'm all that's left 03:51:32 <mchua> aww. 03:51:40 * rrix cries softly 03:51:57 * mchua sends a puppy out to be all happy and companionable 03:52:03 <mchua> (virtual invisible puppy, alas) 03:52:10 <rrix> just loud enough so that you all hear, but quiet enough that it doesn't attract undo attention 03:52:19 * rrix eats it 03:52:31 <rrix> wow, i'm tire. these cheez its are making me crazy 03:55:25 <rrix> rbergeron: smoking and not even putting down the computer? Now that is marketing dedication :) 03:55:59 <rbergeron> well 03:56:07 <rbergeron> more like nicotine dedication :\ 03:56:17 <rrix> d'aw 03:56:33 <rrix> dedicate yourself to coffee 03:56:33 <rrix> instead 03:56:37 <rbergeron> lol 03:57:55 * rrix is done with his cheez its, hope i don't fall asleep out here 03:58:23 <rrix> this last yum -y install is 73 packages, hope this is nearly done :O 03:58:33 <rrix> a buttload of libs 04:00:55 <rrix> ke4qqq: you were right, not done :) 04:15:13 * mchua trying to finish last night's homework before sleeping today 04:15:25 <mchua> I'm definitely running into "the perfect is the enemy of the good" syndrome right now 04:16:08 <rrix> hehe 04:37:34 * rrix just gave the nightwatch a liveimage :> 04:42:34 <rrix> anyone around? 04:47:15 * hiemanshu is around 04:47:56 * threethirty is around 04:48:07 * mchua here 04:48:12 * mchua just finished f12 postmortem, blogging 04:48:26 * hiemanshu just woke up 04:49:01 <threethirty> i just got a new contributor to the FES 04:49:25 <hiemanshu> threethirty: FES? 04:49:43 <threethirty> Fedora Engineering Service 04:49:48 <hiemanshu> Ah nice 04:51:03 <threethirty> everytime someone mentions on identi.ca that they've switched I try to get them to contribute, i dont think im doing too bad 04:51:36 * hiemanshu isnt even on identi.ca 04:51:58 <threethirty> has anyone else noticed an exidous from $formerlyBrownDistro to Fedora in the last 6 months or so 04:52:23 <hiemanshu> threethirty: I have 04:52:57 <ianweller> because F12 was a rockin' release :) 04:53:51 <hiemanshu> ianweller: F12 failed for me at first though, I couldn't have KDE for a while :( 04:53:56 <threethirty> i think it might be new users that were brought in through that project that are just now comfortable enough to start distro hopping 04:54:00 <hiemanshu> threethirty: keep a watch here too http://twitter.com/#search?q=%23fedora 04:55:09 <hiemanshu> threethirty: I have been distro hopping for almost 2 years now 04:55:18 <hiemanshu> but my test machine is my spare laptop 04:55:30 <hiemanshu> I look at what they have that we should 04:55:58 <mchua> yah! http://blog.melchua.com/2010/03/14/marketing-f12-postmortem/ 04:56:07 <hiemanshu> The only thing I really liked so far was Yast from openSuSE 04:57:03 <threethirty> my opensuse fanboi friend has complained in the past that yast was sloooooooooow 04:57:22 * ianweller turns off his thinkpad and packs it up for easyserv :( 04:57:26 <threethirty> he said its recently gotten better but that it was painfully so 04:57:55 <mchua> threethirty: re: getting new contributors to FES, rock on 04:59:07 <hiemanshu> threethirty: I like the idea and the frontend 05:00:11 * mchua now doing a blog post recap of today's FAD events 05:00:56 <threethirty> hiemanshu: also searching twitter is like trying to find a needle in a hay stack durring the zombie appocolypse just join one of these groups http://identi.ca/search/group?q=fedora&search=Search 05:02:07 <threethirty> i dont think there are a lot of people that dont realize that the !tags are group tags and that everyone in that group gets that dent 05:07:39 <hiemanshu> threethirty: I ll have to make an account with identi.ca will do that later in the day 05:08:45 <threethirty> hiemanshu: its just like twitter but FaiF 05:11:15 <rrix> hiemanshu knows but vilegent and i were bitching at licenses :) 05:12:47 <rrix> ianweller: Hey, some wiki-fu for you... :) Figure out why March has 12k wiki edits so far this month (half through) as opposed to the normal 5k for the whole month... unless spevack already asked you to :) 05:13:11 <ianweller> rrix: check your backlog for #fedora-admin 05:13:24 <rrix> mchua: I gave that nightwatch guy a livecd, we should follow up to make sure he uses it :) 05:13:49 <rrix> ianweller: you're too awesome for me to keep up with ;) 05:14:02 <ianweller> hah 05:19:00 <hiemanshu> threethirty: created account, do we have a background for use with identi.ca ? 05:23:31 <mchua> #link http://blog.melchua.com/2010/03/15/marketing-fad-day-2-brand-folks-visit-actionability-brainstorm/ 05:23:36 <mchua> rrix: nightwatch guy wha? 05:23:46 <rrix> mchua: the guy at the front desk 05:24:04 <rrix> i was cleaning up the vent box and he's all "lol wazzup" but like an old guy 05:26:52 <mchua> oh nice. 05:27:01 <mchua> Are you guys back in your rooms now? I didn't see anyone at the lobby. 05:37:11 * hiemanshu has to leave 05:37:13 <hiemanshu> bye guys 05:37:20 <rrix> nini 05:37:28 <rrix> mchua: yeah, i'm in here chatting with vilegent 05:37:54 <rrix> we tried working on his package, it has a messy license and some stuff to throw at ke4qqq 05:38:37 * mchua wonders where Robyn went. 05:40:12 <rrix> eh? 05:40:20 <rrix> smoke? 05:40:33 <mchua> Long smoke, if thta's a smoke. 05:40:38 <mchua> er, long smoke, if that was a smoke. 05:40:58 <mchua> I can't type, I'm scrunched on one of the room sofas which means my right arm is pinned up against the seatback. 05:42:00 <rrix> :/ 05:42:00 <rrix> do we want to grep for her? 05:42:28 <mchua> mebbe? 05:42:37 <mchua> rbergeron: le ping, where art thou? 05:43:25 <rrix> vile and I just turned out the lights, lemme know if we wanna go `grep ~hotel -name "rbergeron" -exec drag --to bed {} \;' 05:43:31 <rrix> wow, that must mean I'm tired :D 05:47:49 <rrix> heh http://huertanix.tumblr.com/post/449381662/brycied00d-wait-how-do-you-really-feel-about 05:49:11 <mchua> hah 05:49:12 <mchua> nice. 05:50:46 <threethirty> lol that is awesome 05:52:14 <rrix> "Ben Williams (in response to Nelson Marquez’s comment that Fedora is the son of Red Hat): “I would say Fedora is the father to RHEL.” Paul Frields: “And the son has an incredibly lucrative job.”" <-- didn't he also mention incest? ;) 05:55:33 * rrix has a feeling the mythical Ben Williams snore is gonna keep him awake. it wasn't this bad last night 06:02:38 * rrix & 06:15:12 <threethirty> lol 11:46:39 <ke4qqq> rrix: spevack mentioned incestuous relationship. 11:49:10 <rrix> moin 11:49:18 <rrix> ke4qqq: ah 11:52:17 <heffer> what? 11:52:19 <heffer> :D 11:53:30 <ke4qqq> heffer: it's in the transcripts or gobby docs one 11:53:37 <heffer> okay 11:53:42 <ke4qqq> or wherever gobby docs have been transferred to 11:53:44 <rrix> transcripts 11:54:10 <rrix> ke4qqq: update finished at ~3am 11:54:12 <rrix> :D 11:55:43 <ke4qqq> rrix: were you still up nursing it? or just find out when it completed 11:56:06 <heffer> breaking news: Nostradamus' works clearly indicate that Ryan Rix is trying to infest the world with pwnies. Also, where he says 'the mouse in Raleigh will shy away / the lion's roar is as dust' he means that Paul Frields is threatening Max Spevack. The lion is Felix Kaechele who is trying to protect Mel Chua from Ryan Rix with little sucess. 11:56:46 <rrix> ke4qqq: stuck it into `time` before bed :) 11:56:52 <rrix> then did the math 11:56:57 <ke4qqq> ahhh awesome 11:57:40 <rrix> I'm not /that/ crazy :) 11:57:42 <rrix> heffer: LOL 11:57:58 <ke4qqq> there is a guy with a squirrel in the lobby 11:58:01 <rrix> argh, i have to rebuild gnome-color-manager 11:58:03 <heffer> generated with http://www.alchemica.co.uk/conspire/discover.html 11:58:17 <ke4qqq> apparently caught from within the hotel 11:58:25 <ke4qqq> o_0 11:58:43 <heffer> or: Obviously Ryan Rix is carrying out a covert war against the armies of Max Spevack in Raleigh. Very soon Paul Frields, who is currently only supplying weapons to Ryan Rix, will join in. Mel Chua has a number of nuclear devices hidden in Red Hat Offices which Paul Frields is trying to steal to help win the war and infest the world with pwnies. We must help Felix Kaechele to stop them, or we are all doomed! 11:58:44 <ke4qqq> showing it off to the front desk 11:58:53 <rrix> heh 11:59:31 <rrix> ... fuck, this reinstall blew away my virtuoso database :( 12:00:03 <ke4qqq> you had backups - right 12:00:14 <rrix> not of ~ no 12:00:20 <rrix> it'll just reindex, i guess 12:03:22 <ke4qqq> squirrel just made a reappearance 12:03:27 <rrix> for proper amount of lulz, see commnet 6 of https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=550887 12:12:59 * mchua blinks, goes "aww, too late to go to best buy" 12:13:13 <ke4qqq> mchua: what are you going to best buy for? 12:15:29 <mchua> SD card. 12:25:19 <mchua> Ok, heading out to ze lobby. 12:25:21 <mchua> Nom. 12:27:25 <heffer> nomz 13:05:29 * rrix|konv pouts 13:10:27 <VileGent> ke4qqq, http://sourceforge.net/projects/phpzip/ 13:10:32 <wonderer> gooooooooooood morning everybody 13:10:39 <VileGent> grumble 13:10:40 <spevack> stickster_afk: http://raleigh.craigslist.org/msg/1644096067.html 13:10:43 <VileGent> grumble 13:12:59 <ke4qqq> does this look like adding additional conditions to the license? 13:13:08 <ke4qqq> http://fpaste.org/u0bR/ 13:15:22 <rdieter> ke4qqq: looks that way to me 13:15:24 <mchua> Okay, restarting logs 13:15:27 <mchua> #endmeeting