19:01:32 <poelcat> #startmeeting Fedora Talk FAD Pre-game 19:01:32 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Oct 20 19:01:32 2009 UTC. The chair is poelcat. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:01:32 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 19:01:41 * jcollie is here 19:01:53 <poelcat> hi jcollie 19:01:59 * jsmith is here 19:02:05 <jsmith> (for once!) 19:02:12 <poelcat> jsmith: hi 19:02:19 <poelcat> we also have brunowolff and mmcgrath i think 19:02:29 <brunowolff> brunowolff is here. 19:02:47 <jsmith> Welcome, herlo 19:03:02 <herlo> jsmith: hi, not sure how available I am for this meeting... 19:03:12 <jsmith> herlo: Fair enough 19:03:16 <poelcat> looks like we have a great crew for today 19:03:33 <jcollie> yeah baby 19:03:35 * poelcat thought stickster's agenda was to f-i-l was good so I'll run with it 19:03:42 <stickster> D'oH!!! 19:03:48 <stickster> sorry guys, thanks to jsmith for pinging me 19:03:52 <poelcat> #info https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD_Fedora_Talk_2009_game_plan#Schedule 19:04:01 <stickster> My phone wasn't synced and didn't pingaling me. 19:04:08 * mmcgrath is here but also doing other stuff 19:04:15 <poelcat> anything we need to cover w/ schedule besides such a late starting time? ;-0 19:04:21 <mmcgrath> please do ping me if you need me directly. I'm attempting, poorly, to multi task. 19:04:21 <poelcat> :-) 19:04:25 <stickster> poelcat is such a slave driver :-) 19:04:37 <poelcat> that will only be 7 am my time ;-) 19:05:05 * stickster is open to earlier times on Saturday but could be tough on Friday. We will probably end up being the people entrusted with keys to the meeting office on Saturday, but on Friday we'll need to wait for the owner to arrive. 19:05:36 <jsmith> stickster: Where are we meeting, may I ask? 19:05:42 <jcollie> maybe on fri we could meet for breakfast? 19:05:44 <poelcat> how about we go with what you've got for Friday and then adjust on Sat if we want like you're saying 19:05:48 <stickster> jsmith: BusinessPlayce 19:05:57 <stickster> poelcat: Roger that 19:06:05 <jsmith> stickster: Gotcha 19:06:08 <poelcat> jcollie: not a bad idea 19:06:16 * jsmith is happy to meat at Waffle House 90 minutes before the scheduled start time 19:06:22 <stickster> DISCO 19:06:25 <jsmith> s/meat/meet/ 19:06:33 <stickster> I think you meant meat, as in bacon. 19:06:34 * jsmith fires his grammarian 19:06:42 <jsmith> s/meat/eat meat/ 19:06:50 <poelcat> stickster: will the party bus be ready to pick us up? 19:06:56 <jcollie> sugar, carbs and greasy food makes for a great start to a weekend of hacking 19:07:04 <stickster> poelcat: I'm OK for early, as you know :-) 19:07:15 <stickster> I can pick you guys up anytime after 6:30am. 19:07:17 <poelcat> #action stickster to ammend the schedule to include the waffle house as a warmup for Friday's kickoff 19:07:34 <poelcat> anything else on the schedule? 19:07:58 * jsmith doesn't have anything to add to the schedule 19:08:04 <poelcat> #topic Use Cases 19:08:09 <stickster> poelcat: done, re: schedule ;-) 19:08:10 <poelcat> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Talk_User_Cases 19:08:15 <poelcat> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Talk_Admin_Cases 19:08:23 <jcollie> use cases look awesome 19:08:25 <poelcat> i thought jcollie had a great idea last week about these 19:08:46 <poelcat> there seemed to be a nice way to resolve each one 19:08:49 <jsmith> Which was? 19:09:03 <poelcat> by either pointing to the ticket or to documentation explaining how it is implemented 19:09:16 <poelcat> we need more details and ideas on the admin cases 19:09:41 <stickster> I think in many cases the admin cases are going to come down to a web app 19:09:48 <jcollie> i think on the admin side we need to decide if we're going to write a web app or something 19:09:55 <stickster> jcollie: *jinx :-) 19:09:55 <jsmith> Correct... and the web app is just going to twiddle bits in FAS, right? 19:10:18 <stickster> jsmith: It would definitely have a tie-in to FAS... partly to make sure the person is in a "talk-admin" group 19:10:27 <poelcat> my thought is we will use each of the cases for shorter sprints as we work on things and so that people can divide up and conquer 19:10:28 <stickster> s/the person/the person signing in and using it/ 19:10:32 <jcollie> mostly i figured it would be setting stuff in the internal asterisk db 19:10:46 <jsmith> jcollie: That works as well... 19:11:17 <poelcat> i figure some of the cases we can back into too... like in the real world where you write the requirements after you are done :) 19:11:47 <jcollie> i like that plan :) 19:11:51 <stickster> poelcat: *snort 19:12:16 <poelcat> if people have time between now and fri please jump in and help add to the pages 19:12:23 <poelcat> or add links to the existing docs we have 19:12:26 <jsmith> Will do 19:12:30 <jsmith> (we have no existing docs!) 19:12:34 <poelcat> i have no idea what we have 19:12:42 <poelcat> okay, that is easy I guess :-/ 19:12:43 * jsmith blames himself for that 19:12:54 <stickster> poelcat: Did you still want a fedora-infrastructure Trac ticket for each of those use cases? Or is it for each thing the use cases generate? 19:12:54 <jsmith> That's one of the secondary goals... write the docs! 19:13:02 <poelcat> jsmith: you're so used to just pointing people to your book ;-) 19:13:15 <poelcat> stickster: i'm torn on that 19:13:29 <poelcat> that was my original plan, but I don't want to get too carried away w/ admin 19:13:32 * stickster agrees 19:13:34 <jsmith> poelcat: Well, the book is getting long in the tooth... 19:13:40 <stickster> We can write details in the per-case tickets, I would think 19:13:45 <poelcat> what do other peple think about ticket creation? 19:13:51 <stickster> Since there's not a useful blocker function in Trac. 19:14:13 <poelcat> maybe as we're wrapping up on Sat we create tickets for future TODO's 19:14:19 <jcollie> I'd say create tickets at the end of the weekend to track stuff that doesn't get done during the weekend 19:14:27 <jcollie> hah 19:14:38 <poelcat> psychic friends network is alive! :) 19:14:52 <poelcat> anything else on use cases? 19:15:07 <stickster> *nod 19:15:08 <poelcat> #action keep updating https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Talk_User_Cases 19:15:13 <poelcat> #action keep updating https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Talk_Admin_Cases 19:15:35 <poelcat> #info will create tickets at end of FAD for other RFEs and Todos 19:15:47 <poelcat> #topic Streaming and Icecast 19:15:54 <poelcat> herlo: what's the good word? 19:16:23 <jsmith> Mind if I throw something out? 19:16:33 <poelcat> jsmith: go 19:16:35 <stickster> jsmith: go right ahead 19:16:38 <jsmith> I'm not sure if this has been discussed before, but we've got several options for the streaming server 19:16:52 <jsmith> Icecast, DarkIce, and Flumotion have all been suggested in the past 19:17:10 <jsmith> Has the decision already been made to go with Icecast? 19:17:12 <stickster> Yes, Icecast and Flumotion were mentioned earlier, but Icecast looked to be easier to set up in our limited time, and we would look to Flumotion later if we needed more functionality 19:17:24 <stickster> herlo has experience with Icecast which helps as well. 19:17:30 <jsmith> OK... last I checked (this was a couple of years ago), Icecast was *very* limiting 19:17:45 <jsmith> I know herlo has played with it since then (I shared all my magic tricks with him) 19:17:51 <jsmith> but didn't know where he got to on that 19:17:52 <jcollie> yeah, none of us are very familiar with flumotion, we'd need to figure out how to add streams on the fly 19:17:52 <stickster> When I looked at their site, it seemed like Ogg support itself was a major new feature, which made me crook an eyebrow 19:18:05 <poelcat> jsmith: could you add some use cases for what people normally do or need to do? 19:18:08 <herlo> hi guys 19:18:10 <jsmith> jcollie: Ah, I was hoping you'd be that person :-) 19:18:12 <stickster> herlo! 19:18:15 <poelcat> then we can decide if IceCast is up to the job? 19:18:19 <herlo> sorry, in an out of work stuffs 19:18:39 <herlo> so far, I have done very little because I was hoping to have an icecast server rpm for epel 19:18:41 <jcollie> i've done a few things with flumotion, but i have to edit xml files and restart the server to get it to do anything new 19:19:15 <herlo> I learned today that we're planning on doing it on F12, so that might not be such a big deal. However, the asterisk stuff is running on F12, don't know that the icecast stuff will be 19:19:23 <poelcat> #info blocking on icecast server rpm being built in epel 19:19:46 <stickster> herlo: Are you actually working on that icecast server RPM, or is someone else doing that? 19:19:51 <jcollie> i know there's a way to add stuff to a running flumotion server, but that'll take reading some code as I haven't found any docs yet 19:19:54 <herlo> ixs is 19:20:00 <herlo> but I can build it and was going to do that today 19:20:20 <poelcat> herlo: do we know it will work on f12 with asterisk 1.6 ? 19:20:22 <herlo> since he said he'd do it on Friday last week and I have not seen it come through koji as of about 2 hours ago 19:20:47 <stickster> Should we invite him? He's on Freenode right now 19:20:48 <herlo> poelcat: if it uses ices (which asterisk-ices does) it will work just fine 19:21:07 <herlo> stickster: sure, I'd love to get him to understnad the reason I have emailed him and pinged him several times :) 19:21:47 <stickster> OK, done... 19:21:52 * herlo has used icecast for years. Ogg video is the new feautre they were talkign about... 19:22:01 <stickster> Ah, right, thanks herlo 19:22:04 <herlo> ogg audio has bene around for a long time 19:22:11 <jsmith> Would it be worth involving the packager for flumotion in the discussion? 19:22:20 * jsmith realizes that packager 19:22:30 * jsmith realizes that packager != expert in all cases 19:22:40 <stickster> jsmith: We tried that earlier 19:22:41 <jsmith> But in this case, it's thomasvs 19:22:47 <stickster> It's thomasvs, who in this case is the expert 19:22:48 <jsmith> stickster: Oh... didn't know if that had been tried 19:22:50 <stickster> *jinx :-) 19:22:54 <herlo> btw, I am happy to package icecast if ixs is unable to do so, I just need permission to commit it. It just needs to be built as the cvs tree is already there... 19:23:12 <jsmith> stickster: You can fill me in on the details offline 19:23:12 <jcollie> he's in belgium so time zones is probably an issue 19:23:54 <poelcat> is someone inviting ixs? 19:23:59 <stickster> poelcat: I did 19:24:40 <stickster> poelcat: Can we move on to a different topic or subtopic while we're waiting? 19:24:52 <jsmith> OK, before moving on, let me explain a bit 19:24:56 <jsmith> and maybe herlo can help too 19:24:58 <stickster> Sure, thanks jsmith 19:25:11 <poelcat> did we need to do other work to get publictest rebuilt? 19:25:22 * poelcat saw message from mmcgrath but can't find it now 19:25:31 <herlo> about publictest15? 19:25:43 * poelcat cant remember the # 19:25:44 * herlo saw the message in #fedora-admin iirc 19:25:51 <jsmith> The basic idea is that Asterisk streams the audio to an audio broadcast server (icecast/flumotion/etc.), and then that does any necessary encoding/transcoding, and passes it off to the masses 19:26:07 <jsmith> herlo: He said to use pt16 19:26:13 <herlo> jsmith: right 19:26:22 <herlo> jsmith: differnet convo 19:26:48 <poelcat> sorry, i started the publictest one... let's finish with streaming first 19:27:06 <jsmith> My concerns are 1) Getting the audio from Asterisk to said server in the proper format 2) Creating streams on the fly on said server 3) Making sure the encoding/transcoding doesn't bring the system to it's (virtual) knees 19:27:38 <jsmith> Last I checked, Asterisk only knew how to send audio in 8kHz, 8-bit signed linear (or was it ulaw?) format 19:27:49 <herlo> I can address that, no problem wrt icecast and asterisk-ices 19:27:56 <jsmith> herlo: Perfect! 19:28:04 <stickster> It shouldn't be hard to gst-launch or something in between, right? 19:28:11 <stickster> Or is that what asterisk-ices/icecast will do? 19:28:21 <jcollie> yeah asterisk-ices handles it 19:28:28 <herlo> so as I understand it, asterisk-ices will take the audio directly from asterisk and create a streaming client 19:28:43 <jsmith> stickster: Shouldn't... but I don't know gstreamer at all! My pipelines are full of holes, and all the magic leaks out onto the floor 19:28:44 <herlo> then the icecast server (or flumotion or whateveR) 19:28:48 <jcollie> i think that the icecast server handles the actual transcoding to ogg/vorbis 19:28:50 <stickster> jsmith: I know some gst, fortunately 19:28:55 <stickster> enough to be dangerous (or stupid) 19:29:00 <herlo> picks up the stream using an agreed upon user and password 19:29:00 <jsmith> stickster: Teach me, oh wise master! 19:29:06 <ixs> evening 19:29:09 <stickster> Hi Andreas! 19:29:23 <herlo> then the encoding happens on the server afaik 19:29:25 <ixs> herlo: FYI: tonight I'll be doing your icecast. 19:29:36 <stickster> ixs: Looks like you just answered our question :-) 19:29:36 <ixs> herlo: I have some time scheduled for that. :D 19:29:37 <herlo> and it's streamed out to the masses 19:29:48 <ixs> stickster: ohh, that was easy. great. 19:29:52 <herlo> ixs: awesome, this meeitng is discussing that exact app 19:29:58 <jsmith> OK... sounds like we're all on the same sheet of music then 19:30:08 <stickster> ixs: We're going to be using it at the upcoming FAD starting Friday :-) 19:30:09 <jsmith> The only other concern I have there is buffering 19:30:14 <poelcat> what do we need to research or talk about before Friday? 19:30:18 <ixs> stickster: awesome. :D 19:30:19 <herlo> we can make icecast limit connections, we can cluster icecast servers together, etc if we need to scale 19:30:35 <jsmith> Last I checked, icecast defaulted to buffering for ten or fifteen seconds before streaming the audio out to the listeners... Do we know how to adjust that? 19:30:36 <herlo> but it has been able to handle 40+ listeners without missing a beat in my experience. 19:30:45 <poelcat> #info ixs is buidling icecast tonight 19:30:49 <herlo> jsmith: you can set that value, I have mine at 5 seconds 19:31:21 <herlo> jsmith: I don't know how real time you want to get 19:31:28 <herlo> but we could try as little as 1-2 seconds 19:31:33 <stickster> So herlo, is the plan that you will get that icecast server installed somewhere, in cahoots with mmcgrath, before Friday? 19:31:35 <jsmith> herlo: 5 seconds is acceptable... I wouldn't go lower than two 19:31:37 <jcollie> minimizing the buffering would be good for more read-time communications, esp i we are using the streaming in conjunction with IRC 19:31:48 <herlo> stickster: yup, just waiting on ixs to build the server tonight :) 19:31:52 <herlo> for epel 19:32:08 <herlo> jsmith: great, I was hoping you wouldn't want to go to really small increments 19:33:11 * poelcat not clear on what next actions are beyond package build tonight 19:33:21 <poelcat> and building the server of course 19:33:26 <herlo> poelcat: I'll build up pt16 with icecast server 19:33:34 <herlo> should have that done by tomorrow night 19:33:51 <herlo> and then we just need to configure asterisk-ices to talk to it 19:33:57 <herlo> and test configs and such 19:34:00 <poelcat> #action herlo will build up pt16 with icecast server by 2009-10-21 19:34:12 <jcollie> can asterisk2 send the audio to pt16 directly without going over the vpn? 19:34:28 <poelcat> do we need to research flumotion or are we punting on that because of lack of time/knowledge ? 19:34:30 <stickster> That may be a mmcgrath question 19:34:32 <herlo> should be able to 19:34:36 <herlo> jcollie: ^^ 19:34:36 <stickster> poelcat: I think it's punting at this point. 19:34:54 * stickster unpings mmcgrath 19:35:04 <herlo> stickster: you can ask him for sure 19:35:14 <stickster> poelcat: We do have the ability to swap out servers later 19:35:24 <poelcat> #decision may consider Flumotion in the future, but right now all our current body of knowledge (what a horrible buzz word) is around Icecast so we will deploy with it and change later if necessary 19:35:41 <stickster> +1 19:35:48 <jcollie> +1 19:35:53 <poelcat> ixs and herlo thanks for all your work on this 19:36:08 <stickster> That goes x2 for me, thanks ixs and herlo 19:36:22 <poelcat> #topic awesome Asterisk config doc by bruno 19:36:22 <herlo> :) np 19:36:31 <stickster> Yay brunowolff! 19:36:34 <poelcat> brunowolff: did you want to discuss the docs about setting up asterisk? 19:36:53 <brunowolff> Well I have gone about as far as I can. 19:36:59 <poelcat> or did others have questions/comments we want to discuss here? 19:37:04 <brunowolff> I was hoping one of the gurus would review things. 19:37:17 <brunowolff> I think I caught most of the 1.4 to 1.6.2 isms. 19:37:25 <poelcat> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD_Fedora_Talk_2009_game_plan#Asterisk_Packages_.26_Installation_Instructions 19:37:31 <brunowolff> I didn't test any of the conferencing parts. 19:37:32 <stickster> jsmith: ^^ 19:37:52 <jsmith> I didn't actually test with his configs and instructions, but I'm sure we can amplify those instructions 19:37:56 <brunowolff> More than just the wav codecs may be useful once you start doing automated menu stuff. 19:38:11 * poelcat thinks it would be really cool if we could get this formalized in a way that anyone could setup an Asterisk config in their own enviornment just like Fedora's 19:38:15 <jsmith> I should be around today and Thursday/Friday/Sat for any advanced help 19:38:21 <brunowolff> Those aren't needed to the pass through connections with twinkle. 19:38:48 <stickster> poelcat: What a great point. Eventually I see a CSI doc in the future 19:38:48 <stickster> jsmith: u r teh awsum 19:38:52 <jsmith> poelcat: Great goal, but it's slightly more complicated than that 19:38:57 <poelcat> :) 19:38:58 <stickster> Sure, what with the DIDs and stuff 19:39:08 <jsmith> Without the proper foundational information, you're setting yourself up for problems and possible security implications 19:39:14 <jsmith> But that's another topic for another day 19:39:26 <poelcat> fair enough 19:39:32 <stickster> Ask a teacher... :-) 19:39:41 <poelcat> lol 19:40:18 <poelcat> any other topics to discuss? 19:40:47 <jsmith> What equipment would people like me to bring? 19:41:04 <stickster> jsmith: I think we were planning to rely on softphones 19:41:04 <jsmith> I'm happy to bring the whole phone zoo, if people wanna try lots of different phones 19:41:05 <stickster> But 19:41:06 <poelcat> jsmith: lots of free stuff for us to take home ;-) 19:41:13 <stickster> jsmith: I have a couple of Grandstreams that are still looking for a home 19:41:14 <poelcat> jk 19:41:16 <stickster> poelcat: I think one is for you 19:41:22 <jsmith> poelcat: I'll see what I can rustle up :-) 19:41:31 * stickster has 2 other Grandstreams up for grabs. 19:41:32 <poelcat> stickster: yay! 19:41:39 * jsmith will raid the Schwag Bag 19:41:42 <stickster> I'm bringing my usual softphone+LogitechUSB 19:41:46 <brunowolff> Is there going to be a voice setup there for remote people or are we mostly going to work through IRC and Gobby? 19:42:00 <stickster> brunowolff: Unknown at this point. 19:42:04 <jsmith> We can certainly tie into the conf bridge on Fedora Talk, right? 19:42:13 <stickster> Sure 19:42:18 <jcollie> i'd take a grandstream if no one desperately wants one 19:42:20 <stickster> I could bring my SPA942 and we could just use that. 19:42:33 <stickster> jcollie: You're welcome to it 19:42:36 <poelcat> a hard phone with speaker on it to call into FedoraTalk ? 19:42:46 <stickster> poelcat: Yes, my Linksys SPA942 has that 19:43:06 <jcollie> i can see if i can free up a nice conference phone from work 19:43:19 <stickster> The owner of the site has told me there is at least one free wired port we're welcome to use 19:43:28 <stickster> jsmith: If you can bring a hub of some sort that might be helpful 19:43:29 <poelcat> "free up" as in put it in your suitcase? ;-) 19:43:38 <jcollie> heh something like that 19:43:55 <stickster> jcollie: You'll need room to take gear *home* :-) 19:43:56 <brunowolff> I won't have access to a hard line from home, but have a couple of headsets with mics at home. 19:44:16 <jcollie> i'll just bring the big suitcase :) 19:44:39 <jsmith> I'll bring at least three phones (Polycom, Linksys, and Grandstream video), plus one or two USB speakerphones 19:44:46 <jsmith> and maybe even a headset or two 19:45:00 <jsmith> stickster: I've got an eight port gigabit switch too 19:45:09 * poelcat is planning to bring a usb headset 19:45:32 <stickster> jsmith: Cool 19:45:43 <stickster> poelcat: Sounds good 19:45:43 <jsmith> stickster: I can bring another 5-port as well, if needed 19:45:43 * poelcat thinks the office place hosting this has no idea how much bandwidth we might use 19:45:52 <jsmith> stickster: I've also got power strips 19:46:00 <jcollie> power strips good 19:46:03 * stickster will lean on jsmith for equipment then, looks like :-) 19:46:08 <stickster> poelcat: They should be OK, I think 19:46:12 <jsmith> Like I said... I'll bring the zoo 19:46:22 <jsmith> (one of each kind of animal) 19:46:31 <stickster> As long as we're not rsyncing a tree :-) 19:46:35 <poelcat> #action jsmith to "bring the zoo of hardware" 19:46:57 <poelcat> #topic travel logistics 19:47:09 <poelcat> stickster: where are you picking us up at? 19:47:22 <stickster> OK, I put some of this on the schedule 19:47:24 * poelcat searches for a bad joke about meeting us at the gate 19:47:43 <stickster> On Thursday, I'll be picking up jds2001 at the bus station in the afternoon 19:47:52 <stickster> I'll either bring him to the hotel and/or to my house, his choice 19:48:06 <stickster> Then I'll come get everyone else (John, Ian, Jeff) at the RIC airport 19:48:24 <poelcat> stickster: what I meant was... at the curb, baggage claim, ? 19:48:27 <stickster> You'll need to come out and meet me in the lobby outside security obviously 19:48:30 <stickster> *jinx 19:48:48 <stickster> There's a big seating area there, you won't miss me, I promise :-) 19:48:53 <poelcat> okay 19:49:06 <stickster> We'll need to wait for everyone to arrive first 19:49:10 <stickster> obviously :-P 19:49:15 <poelcat> anything else before we close? 19:49:16 <stickster> Then I bring everyone back to the hotel 19:49:18 <jcollie> Who's getting last? 19:49:24 <stickster> Erm 19:49:35 <stickster> Hang on and I can tell you 19:50:13 <jcollie> looks like i'm getting in around 9:45 19:50:18 <stickster> Ha, Ian and John are coming in on the same flight from DFW 19:50:20 <stickster> 10:15 19:50:36 <stickster> Check me out with my bad schedulin' self 19:50:39 <jsmith> So plan on it getting into RIC two hours late :-p 19:50:45 <poelcat> lol 19:50:45 * jsmith ducks and hides 19:50:45 <stickster> :-P 19:50:56 <stickster> Whatevah 19:51:00 <stickster> I'll be there, no biggie 19:51:12 <jsmith> stickster: If you need me to run to RIC to pick people up, I may be able to swing it 19:51:19 <stickster> jsmith: Nope, it's under control 19:51:20 <jcollie> heh i'm coming from chicago 19:51:44 <jsmith> jcollie: United we standby! 19:51:56 <jcollie> does o'hare have free wifi? i hope so 19:52:04 * poelcat doubts it 19:52:12 <jcollie> cheap buggers 19:52:43 <poelcat> just like hotels... the larger/more expensive to stay at less likely to have free wifi 19:52:48 <stickster> RIC does, for those of you leaving via air 19:53:06 <jcollie> someone in the office has a verizon data card, i may have to track it down 19:53:32 * poelcat will close us out in 60 unless someone has another topic 19:53:36 * stickster notes for jcollie, poelcat, jds2001 that the HGI does have complimentary wifi 19:53:39 * stickster doen 19:53:41 <stickster> *done, even. 19:53:43 <jcollie> and i doubt that i'll be lucky enough to be on a jet with wifi either 19:54:14 <jcollie> i'm just griping about the state of modern air trave ;) 19:54:21 <jcollie> er travel even 19:54:33 * jsmith had wifi all the way back from Phoenix on Friday 19:54:44 <poelcat> thanks everyone for coming and looking forward to seeing/talking to you on Thurs or Friday 19:54:47 <poelcat> #endmeeting