18:03:16 <randomuser> #startmeeting Fedora Docs Relnotes Sprint
18:03:16 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Aug 27 18:03:16 2015 UTC.  The chair is randomuser. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:03:16 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:21:01 * randomuser pings bcotton oob
18:28:42 <zoglesby> randomuser|work: why can't I search for 'fedora_requires_release_note' on bz, what am I doing wrong?
18:29:16 <randomuser> I don't actually remember how to do it
18:31:15 * randomuser attempts to figure it out
18:32:58 <randomuser> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&columnlist=product%2Ccomponent%2Cassigned_to%2Cbug_status%2Cresolution%2Cshort_desc%2Cchangeddate%2Cflagtypes.name&f1=flagtypes.name&j_top=OR&list_id=3760933&o1=substring&query_based_on=&query_format=advanced&v1=fedora_requires_release_note%3F
18:35:16 <randomuser> I'm working up an uglier one, even
18:39:22 <randomuser> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=POST&bug_status=MODIFIED&bug_status=ON_DEV&bug_status=ON_QA&bug_status=VERIFIED&bug_status=RELEASE_PENDING&bug_status=CLOSED&chfield=[Bug%20creation]&chfieldfrom=2015-05-26&chfieldto=Now&classification=Fedora&columnlist=product%2Ccomponent%2Cassigned_to%2Cbug_status%2Cresolution%2Cshort_desc%2Cchangeddate%2Cflagtypes.name&f1=flagtypes.name&j_top=OR&list_id=
18:39:22 <randomuser> 3760950&o1=anywords&query_format=advanced&v1=release
18:39:36 <randomuser> added https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1244725 basically
18:40:07 <randomuser> .. and I'm dropping the flag on that
18:44:58 <randomuser> all three, actually
18:46:12 <zoglesby> so by your link nothing requires release notes?
18:47:53 <randomuser> no bugs flagged
18:48:11 <randomuser> ... there's nothing to be done by looking at flagged bugs right now, I mean
18:48:20 <randomuser> nice try though.
18:48:23 <zoglesby> great! we are done! good release notes!
18:48:43 <zoglesby> lets xml it all and pub
18:49:05 <zoglesby> okay, so then its time to work the old way and just start working down the list
18:50:00 <randomuser> yup
18:52:33 * randomuser starts looking at workstation stuff
18:58:51 <randomuser> zoglesby, https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1229395
19:00:56 <randomuser> see also https://www.jetbrains.com/buy/opensource/?product=pycharm
19:01:41 <randomuser> "Use of the software is restricted to the licensed user with no right to transfer the software to third parties."
19:03:38 <zoglesby> I am not sure I know what is going on here anymore
19:04:10 <randomuser> I'm developing a strong distaste for doing relnotes, at least
19:04:30 <randomuser> and it's time to go back to work... I'll be back in a few hours
19:04:35 <zoglesby> and for workstation
19:04:40 <randomuser> indeed
19:04:56 <zoglesby> indeed, I am about to go get on a train, I will be back to work once I put kids in bed
22:08:22 <randomuser> hey mailga !
22:11:23 <mailga> hello randomuser we didn't say hello before leaving rochester.
22:12:00 <randomuser> we did not - I missed many people as they left
22:12:31 <randomuser> please forgive my social ineptitude :/
22:13:15 <mailga> randomuser: np, we'll meet again and say bye two times.
22:17:56 <mailga> randomuser: do you think we shuld recap anything after the fed-join talk? I thinkthat the merge of the join steps is wrth to be discussed...
22:19:16 <randomuser> mailga, I think we should continue on with what we've been discussing.  Whatever Sirko was going on about re: mentoring is completely foreign to me.
22:20:30 <mailga> randomuser: ok. I'll send a mail in ML. A recap is useful.
22:20:41 <randomuser> cool.
22:20:49 <randomuser> mailga, have you come to help with release notes today?
22:21:17 <mailga> how can I do?
22:21:43 <randomuser> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Documentation_beats?rd=Documentation_Beats is the overview page
22:21:57 <randomuser> anything new and awesome needs to go in there, some already has
22:22:53 <randomuser> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Immanetize/Beats_Redux is a somewhat useful guide on things to cover
22:23:06 <randomuser> also, all of the Changes need to be documented
22:29:50 <mailga> I'm looking at that pages.... Here's late in the night, I'll continue tomorrow.
22:34:19 <randomuser> OK, no worries.
22:35:09 <mailga> probably I'll have some question for you.
22:39:03 <randomuser> no, I don't have any cigarettes
22:41:21 <mailga> ah ah ah ah ah, everyone in Rochester asked for cigarettes and/or one dollar....
22:41:58 <mailga> maybe they tought I'm rich...
22:42:07 <randomuser> in many cases I think they aren't even in need, they're just on their way to work or the store and ask people compulsively
22:43:35 <mailga> we call it "psichosys"....
22:44:09 <mailga> s/psichosys/psychosis
00:19:24 <zoglesby> well I would be starting now if I could get logged into the wiki...
00:21:18 <randomuser> zoglesby, I was just about to start up a piratepad for "I already did that" - thoughts?
00:21:50 <zoglesby> sounds good to me
00:23:19 <randomuser> http://piratepad.net/nIJTKEmI5c
00:25:47 <zoglesby> cookie clearing dance and I am in the wiki...
00:27:44 <zoglesby> I don't know what that first item in the piratepad is...
00:28:09 <randomuser> they have a "we should do this" wiki page
00:28:24 <randomuser> ~50 row table, two entries done, easy to check off
00:30:23 <randomuser> I'm also running a bunch of bash commands, so I set HISTFILE to something different and will refer to it next time
00:32:17 <zoglesby> randomuser: Harden All Packages --> security?
00:32:40 <randomuser> sounds good
00:35:29 <randomuser> group is a funny word
00:37:37 <nb> hmm
00:38:04 <randomuser> nb, you can jump in at any time
00:38:08 * randomuser dangles badges
00:38:23 * nb wants badges!
00:38:29 <nb> what needs done?
00:40:06 <randomuser> nb, lots of things - is there a particular set of packages you'd prefer to research and cover, or would you prefer suggestions?
00:42:35 <nb> to write about stuff for release notes?
00:46:18 <randomuser> yes, that
00:46:37 * nb thinks
00:46:40 <randomuser> also, `dnf repoquery --changelog` doesn't exist. W.T.F.
00:46:49 * nb guesses he should read the release notes to see examples of what to do
00:46:56 <nb> i haven't looked at them in......... a few releases
00:48:18 <randomuser> skim https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Immanetize/Beats_Redux as well
00:48:34 <zoglesby> right that link again...
00:48:42 <zoglesby> randomuser: why is that in your private space!
00:48:56 <randomuser> zoglesby, because it's drafty
00:49:06 <randomuser> I had intended to make it much more comprehensive
00:49:11 <zoglesby> okay I will buy that
00:50:04 <randomuser> eventually it could replace the existing beats category page
00:54:18 <randomuser> from anaconda changelog: "filesystems -> file systems, per the style guide"
00:54:28 <randomuser> somebody couldn't take the squiggly lines any more
01:00:29 <zoglesby> randomuser: wiki <package> syntax?
01:01:00 <zoglesby> brain no workie
01:01:51 <randomuser> I dunno - *package* ?
01:02:12 <randomuser> I've honestly never used the conversion tools
01:02:25 <zoglesby> :( I will just have to proof read a lot at xml time...
01:02:47 <zoglesby> I have not used it since say 2009 maybe
01:03:22 <randomuser> Ive been doing the proofreading and conversion in one manual pass
01:04:32 <zoglesby> I have been doing this for far to long, I just went back and look at the list of release page, recall to much
01:04:41 <zoglesby> I'm done! SO LONG!
01:12:20 <zoglesby> I wish that people would write better release notes section in thier change proposals
01:12:45 <zoglesby> I don't want a two page list of changes
01:14:52 <zoglesby> or better, an empty section
01:15:11 <randomuser> for some reason they think they're writing the actual relnotes copy
01:15:49 <zoglesby> oh well, then I wont write anything for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Python_3_as_Default since they don't want anything :P
01:16:07 <randomuser> heh
01:16:43 <randomuser> That change is going to be recurring and meaningless until /usr/bin/python is python3 and python-module gives you python2
01:16:51 <randomuser> ...you know what I mean
01:17:35 <zoglesby> wait what? I have not read the page yet. What is /usr/bin/python going to give you?
01:17:58 <randomuser> $ file `which python`
01:18:19 <randomuser> /bin/python: symbolic link to python2
01:18:40 <randomuser> it's just flagship software like dnf and anaconda moving to py3
01:18:45 <zoglesby> that is on f23/rawhide/something newer than 22?
01:18:56 <randomuser> and the change owners asking really nicely for people to support py3
01:19:00 <randomuser> this is on f23
01:19:23 <zoglesby> wow, so this is not a very good change title
01:19:54 <randomuser> third release running with a change of that title
01:20:40 <zoglesby> skip!
01:20:46 <zoglesby> come back later...
01:20:53 <zoglesby> to much reading and thinking...
01:21:34 <randomuser> hey, while you're here - I often have problems with window focus
01:21:53 <randomuser> I have two firefox windows on a workspace, and can only type in one
01:21:55 <zoglesby> only look at one window at a time
01:21:59 <randomuser> psh
01:22:16 <randomuser> I end up dragging a tab over to the functional window
01:22:53 <zoglesby> try meta+k
01:23:01 <zoglesby> that will move focus without the mouse
01:23:45 <randomuser> nope; meta+k to the other window, F6 to get in the url box, box of unfocused window is activated
01:24:02 <randomuser> hey, let's also use words like "on" and "see" a whole lot today
01:26:43 <zoglesby> now that I think about it, how long have you been seeing it? I have been having odd issues with firefox since the last update.
01:27:04 <randomuser> months
01:27:14 <zoglesby> hmm
01:28:11 <randomuser> what are your issues? there's a build coming into -testing today fwiw
01:28:46 <zoglesby> address bar jumps out of place and moves to top of the screen when I start to type sometimes
01:28:56 <zoglesby> that is the biggest one
01:29:21 <randomuser> heh
01:29:31 <randomuser> I blame gtk3
01:29:58 <randomuser> I have a fun one at work, probably due to some special plugin: all dialog boxes have a large nine digit pink number over them
01:30:12 <zoglesby> I asked about it at work and was told 'use chrome'
01:30:16 <zoglesby> it was lots of help
01:30:25 <randomuser> dropdown field? numbers.  Tab area? numbers.  Search box? numbers.
01:31:31 <zoglesby> big pink numbers are fun
01:32:10 <randomuser> it gets entertaining
01:33:54 <randomuser> hey mhayden, anything for your packages we should put in the F23 relnotes?
01:34:25 <mhayden> hmm, nothing terribly remarkable
01:34:54 <mhayden> i'd like to get some of the drbd 9 stuff wedged in, but that requires some kernel love
01:35:32 <mhayden> python-pip and python-virtualenv got bumped to the latest versions -- but not groundbreaking :P
01:35:36 <randomuser> probably won't get much kernel love for the next month or two
01:37:58 <mhayden> well it's drbd that needs to do the work
01:38:01 <mhayden> rather, linbit
01:38:07 <mhayden> they need to upstream the drbd9 stuff
01:38:23 <randomuser> aahh.. that kind of love
01:50:30 <randomuser> neat, there are macros for golang now
02:01:43 <randomuser> zoglesby, if you're circling back to py3, do you want me to note packages that have gained py3 support?
02:02:05 <randomuser> or, moved to py3 default, or whatever?
02:02:13 <zoglesby> you can take the whole thing if you want
02:02:38 <randomuser> ugh. fine.
02:06:53 <randomuser> okay, I don't get this
02:07:01 <randomuser> chroot accepts the new --skip-chdir option to not change the working directory
02:07:01 <randomuser> to "/" after changing into the chroot(2) jail, thus retaining the current wor-
02:07:01 <randomuser> king directory.  The new option is only permitted if the new root directory is
02:07:01 <randomuser> the old "/", and therefore is useful with the --group and --userspec options.
02:07:19 <randomuser> so there's a new option that only works if I'm doing "chroot /" ?
02:08:05 <randomuser> Corey84, welcome, you're just in time to be put to work!
02:08:07 <zoglesby> I don't understand why you would do that
02:08:30 <randomuser> I'm going to pretend it doesn't exist
02:08:43 <zoglesby> I have already done that once or twice...
02:12:54 <linux-modder> lol
02:13:10 <linux-modder> in -meeting  still for famna  will be  back on conclusion
02:16:01 <linux-modder> what you got for me  randomuser
02:16:27 <randomuser> linux-modder, we're doing relnotes - can you handle the container stuff?
02:16:56 <linux-modder> sure might need some  help with the selinux bit  tho
02:17:18 <randomuser> np, whatever you can do is a big help
02:17:56 <linux-modder> looking over it  now
02:18:35 <linux-modder> where did container  get buried  in relnotes for 22
02:18:38 <randomuser> linux-modder, put the notes in https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Documentation_Container_Beat
02:18:45 <linux-modder> kk
02:18:58 <randomuser> I don't recall doing much on containers for f22, tbh
02:19:47 <linux-modder> seems that way looks  like it was  missed :(
02:30:15 <zoglesby> I am not having a very productive writing night, to many drafts before I like what I am saying
02:30:35 <randomuser> polish later, man
02:31:05 <randomuser> I'm knowingly dropping ugly notes in the wiki; the research is the hard par
02:31:13 <randomuser> part$
02:36:06 <linux-modder> zoglesby,  rough draft  .. worse case  peer  proof read  is  great
02:36:15 <linux-modder> and  informative for the 'class'
02:37:46 <randomuser> linux-modder, also we're using http://piratepad.net/nIJTKEmI5c to jot down items we've covered so they don't get done twice
02:41:03 <zoglesby> nb: where did you go?!!
02:41:29 <linux-modder> was in  -meeting  with me  for famna
02:42:38 <zoglesby> randomuser: where do we put https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Two_Week_Atomic?
02:42:54 <randomuser> linux-modder, nice to see mikedep## getting involved. he was a bit wide-eyed at flock
02:43:00 <randomuser> zoglesby, cloud product
02:43:13 <randomuser> ...or container?
02:43:18 <zoglesby> really? it seems like it is its own thing now
02:43:34 <zoglesby> two week release cycle, own website...
02:43:48 <randomuser> oh, it's own website? yeah, maybe
02:43:58 <zoglesby> 'This change moves Atomic away from the main Fedora 6-month distribution release, and instead to separate releases every two weeks on a new web site, http://atomic.fedoraproject.org/'
02:44:12 <zoglesby> not that the link works right now
02:44:15 <randomuser> usage wise, I think it makes sense to put atomic with container info, or vise versa
02:45:56 <linux-modder> cd ..
02:46:03 <linux-modder> wrong window  :(
02:46:20 <zoglesby> linux-modder: /home/
02:46:35 <linux-modder> no.... recompiling  qtox
02:47:37 <zoglesby> Quintessential and Tonic?
02:48:11 <linux-modder> no  a  chat  client  http://github.com/tux3/qtox
02:48:38 <linux-modder> really  wish it  had  less  bundled  nonsense  tho
02:48:41 <linux-modder> like ffmpeg
02:49:09 <zoglesby> I am so out of touch with the world. "a Tox client" I don't know what that is
02:49:39 <randomuser> a chat client that bundles ffmpeg?
02:49:51 <randomuser> I think there's an emacs plugin for that
02:49:51 <zoglesby> people talked about "tinder" at work, no idea, snapchat, etc. No idea what people do on the internet
02:50:07 <zoglesby> well if there is an emacs plugin...
02:50:13 <randomuser> zoglesby, I think those are iPhone apps to help you get a divorce
02:50:57 <zoglesby> randomuser: not sure how to respond to that, if I say "noted" that may imply that I need to keep note of this for later.
02:51:23 <linux-modder> no tox clients (whichever one for  OS of choice you use)  are meant to be  secure  skype replacement
02:51:32 <zoglesby> BIGBROTHER: I have no intention of getting a divorce!
02:51:32 <randomuser> you too can wallow in smarmy ignorance of such things
02:51:34 <linux-modder> randomuser, lol
02:51:57 <linux-modder> ashley madison anyone :P
02:52:18 <linux-modder> tinder  might as  well be  ashley madison app
02:53:35 <randomuser> I guess we're too old to be promiscuous on the internet
02:53:42 <zoglesby> 'Unicode 8.0 got released on 17th June 2015. It includes 41 new emoji characters.' YAY!
02:54:18 <randomuser> 🙃
02:54:48 <zoglesby> irssi must not support emoji, because I see nothing...
02:55:51 <randomuser> maybe it's a font thing
02:56:05 <randomuser> I wrote "smiley with 'ELITE' banner"
02:57:03 <zoglesby> nothing...
03:00:51 <randomuser> oh, I forgot to install plymouth-theme-hot-dog on this box
03:00:55 * randomuser hangs head
03:02:37 <linux-modder> lol
03:03:46 <zoglesby> randomuser: I don't think I can talk to you ever again
03:03:54 <randomuser> zoglesby, just got back around to my fedora-web clone, initial evidence suggests no atomic.fp.o
03:04:25 <zoglesby> It has not been made yet as far as I can tell
03:04:44 <randomuser> that's what I'm telling you
03:04:57 <zoglesby> no, that is what I was telling you!
03:05:08 * randomuser growls
03:05:11 <zoglesby> so what if you looked at more facts
03:05:15 <randomuser> quiet, linux-modder
03:05:17 <zoglesby> facts are for fools
03:05:37 <randomuser> wait, *now* you tell me?
03:05:49 <randomuser> We could have been done with this by now
03:06:14 <zoglesby> I don't want to put this in containers
03:06:42 <zoglesby> its not a container, its the thing you run containers technology on (if you are cool)
03:07:01 <randomuser> it's only job is to have containers run on it
03:07:08 <zoglesby> okay
03:07:17 <randomuser> put it in an atomic thing, and put the containers in the atomic thing too
03:07:21 <randomuser> sell the total solution
03:08:27 <randomuser> zoglesby, we just did a back-to-back its fail
03:08:33 <randomuser> it might be time to stop for the night
03:08:52 <zoglesby> well I took the release notes out of that one and just hit paste, putting money on the fact that brockmeier wrote it
03:09:12 <randomuser> sound bet
03:09:30 <linux-modder> brockmeier  a   bad writer?
03:09:38 <zoglesby> "23:08 < randomuser> zoglesby, we just did a back-to-back its fail
03:09:39 <zoglesby> "
03:09:41 <zoglesby> what?
03:10:30 <zoglesby> linux-modder: no he writes a lot, as in like as a freelancer for a while when he left SuSe
03:10:40 <randomuser> "its not a container" "it's only job"
03:10:55 <randomuser> iirc he has a journalism degree and everything
03:11:12 <linux-modder> ah
03:12:30 <zoglesby> we just make it up here as we go along, no degrees
03:12:44 <zoglesby> well I mean I have one but it is in religion not journalism
03:12:50 <zoglesby> (long story)
03:13:14 <randomuser> awesome
03:19:45 <randomuser> okay, I'm checking out for the night. @core and @critical-path-base are covered.  I'll do the other critical path groups and tear into Changes tomorrow
03:20:19 <zoglesby> okay, I am going to pack it up in a few as well
03:20:25 <zoglesby> #endmeeting
03:20:29 <zoglesby> nope!
03:20:32 <zoglesby> randomuser: end it!
03:20:35 <randomuser> #chair zoglesby
03:20:35 <zodbot> Current chairs: randomuser zoglesby
03:20:39 <zoglesby> #endmeeting