19:00:16 #startmeeting 19:00:16 Meeting started Tue Oct 5 19:00:16 2010 UTC. The chair is mizmo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 19:00:16 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 19:00:20 how is everyone? 19:00:29 pretty swell how u doing fabsh 19:00:42 Hey paulproteus_. 19:00:54 we've got an exciting fun new project to talk about after we get through the agenda (which likely won't take long) 19:00:57 hi everyone :) 19:01:09 nice to see you msourada 19:01:10 Also, hi all! 19:01:13 mizmo: good thanks! 19:01:16 welcome karenr! 19:01:32 karenr: hello! 19:01:34 #topic F14 remaining tasks: DVD/CD label & sleeve artwork 19:01:43 so it looks like Alexander & Mark are making good progress on this task 19:01:46 * karenr is also known as mllerustad, at least when Quassel isn't teh busted 19:01:59 yeah, I quite like them! 19:02:13 #info if anyone has any feedback for the sleeve and disc art Alexander and Mark are working on be sure to send it to the list 19:02:16 i think we have a winner with the sleeves 19:02:23 they look really good 19:02:55 mimzo, I'm not sure if I'm in the right topic... but -- do we have a final wallpaper yet, or is there still some work going on? 19:02:59 and the labels are trivial,: s/13/14/g 19:02:59 #link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/design-team/2010-October/003387.html Alenader's work 19:03:04 msourada, that's be next topic :) 19:03:17 mimzo, ah, thanks, then I'll wait :D 19:03:28 #link http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/design-team/2010-October/003408.html Marc's work 19:03:35 so a couple of other things - 19:03:43 we'll want to have a lightscribe version of the disc label 19:03:55 and Karlie Robinson asked if we could also do a version of the disk label with the wallpaper screened on top 19:04:03 because she prints them out professionally in full-color 19:04:07 using inkjet i think 19:04:12 no screening 19:04:21 so just a couple things to consider there 19:04:27 ok, doable, we just to check the readability 19:04:30 #info We'll need lightscribe versions of the disc labels 19:04:33 I like Mark's version slightly more 19:04:46 #info Karlie Robinson has requested a version of the discs with the wallpaper art screened on, full color for on-disk.com 19:04:59 i think the text handling in Marc's is better 19:05:06 combine the two and you have win i think :) 19:05:11 okay wallpaper! 19:05:16 #topic F14 final wallpaper 19:05:18 so a couple ideas 19:05:25 #idea Animated wallpaper? 19:05:31 do we want to do this? 19:05:34 we could do four times of day? 19:05:49 change the colour slightly? 19:05:49 i think the graphic is too abstract to work 19:06:03 nicubunu, well one sec 19:06:05 mizmo, when we were doing this it was four times a day, yes. That still seems like sensible number, if we would do it 19:06:13 #idea https://fedoraproject.org/w/uploads/d/dd/F14-beta-wallpaper-rev1.png <= morning 19:06:21 #idea https://fedoraproject.org/w/uploads/4/40/F14-beta-wallpaper-rev2.png <= night 19:06:33 it would just be color changes throughout the day? 19:06:44 yeh 19:07:00 #idea http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/File:F14-beta-wallapaper.png <= noon? 19:07:01 that is cool! 19:07:04 i like that! 19:07:10 so we'll be playing with the center of the design 19:07:11 looks more like supernova than time of day >:D 19:07:28 i think we should do that 19:07:31 excellent idea 19:07:54 okay cool! 19:08:03 just for the record, IMHO rev2 >> than the rest... 19:08:08 #info we'll do time-of-day wallpapers for Final f14, based on the coloring of the supernova 19:08:22 msourada, are you cool with packaging that up? 19:08:46 mizmo, sure, semester started up, so I'm not much tied up with exams now :D 19:08:52 sweet 19:08:55 can you do the xmls too? 19:09:04 * mizmo won't ask for a pony, she promises 19:09:09 mizmo, no problem. 19:09:13 awesome 19:09:20 xmls -> copy/paste from sulphur 19:09:23 mizmo, just ask me to do it when it's ready ;-) 19:09:24 #action mizmo to create sunset wallpaper design 19:09:32 #action msourada to xml-ize animated wallpapers 19:09:33 :D 19:09:36 #action msourada to package animated wallpapers 19:09:39 we kick butt 19:09:40 okay 19:09:43 nice! :) 19:09:49 #topic release party posters for F14 19:09:58 any ideas what we could do this release? 19:10:06 * mizmo looks for f13's design 19:10:41 methinks we can reuse the wallpaper graphic and add some text 19:11:31 +1 nicubunu 19:11:40 * mizmo poking around here http://fedorapeople.org/groups/designteam/Resources/Fedora%20Release%20Themes/ 19:12:03 aha! 19:12:05 #link http://fedorapeople.org/groups/designteam/Fedora%20Collateral/Posters/Release%20Party%20Posters/F13/ 19:12:22 we could just update that to say F14 too 19:12:32 this is not due for 3 weeks or so, we have time 19:12:42 I think using the wallpaper design in the poster would be nice 19:12:43 but if someone has a creative idea it is up for grabs, and there's plenty of time to do it 19:12:51 we even have time for a ninja bounty... 19:13:07 yeh the last one was so popular 19:13:10 maybe do a doulbe bounty lol 19:13:22 more ninjas is always good ;) 19:13:27 current team members get dibs first though if anybody is interested 19:13:37 ill wait till fridayish and if nobody's picked it up i'll bounty it 19:13:45 sorry, I'm madly busy atm 19:13:58 I'd be willing to give it a shot 19:14:06 Emichan, sweet it's yours! 19:14:09 no concrete ideas on my front... 19:14:10 :) 19:14:13 the source files from the last one are at that URL 19:14:19 you'll probablywant to update it to Comfortaa 19:14:21 i think it's using modata 19:14:30 #action Emichan to take a stab at release poster for F14 19:14:43 hey inkscaper! 19:14:46 you are just in time :) 19:14:51 #topic F14 countdown graphics 19:14:52 Hi 19:15:01 inkscaper, do you have a design for the f14 countdown banner? 19:15:04 inkscaper, do you need help with it? 19:15:28 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F14_Artwork_Banners_Submissions/Countdown_Translate 19:15:31 i remember seeing a mockup 19:15:45 inkscaper, oh beautiful! 19:15:52 inkscaper, is it in svg so we can generate all the numbers? 19:16:06 yes 19:16:15 inkscaper, that looks really beautiful 19:16:17 oh holy crap you are amzing inkscape 19:16:24 sweet!!!! yay 19:16:31 inkscaper, awesome! 19:16:33 :) 19:16:33 #link http://inkscaper.fedorapeople.org/Fedora14/countdown-banner/ <= countdown banners 19:16:34 nice :) 19:16:38 inkscaper++ 19:16:45 Wow... 19:16:49 #action mizmo to pass countdown banners to website design team 19:17:13 okay two more action items, then on to the super fun :) 19:17:19 #topic Fedora 15 19:17:30 so the release name for Fedora 15 is supposed to be announced this Friday!! 19:17:32 oooooh 19:17:37 the wiki page for coming up with names was opened up this weekend 19:17:43 no vote this time? 19:18:04 im not sure 19:18:10 maybe the deadline is friday, and the vote is after? 19:18:12 * mizmo will have to ask 19:18:16 but its definitely coming soon 19:18:21 link? 19:18:26 #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Name_suggestions_for_Fedora_15 19:18:37 the wikipage says TBA for all the dates 19:18:46 so here's the thing 19:18:56 ...and legal will move that fast this time??? 19:19:00 since we base our themes on the name, let's make sure we flag any names we think will be too difficult 19:19:04 nicubunu, i may have been reading an old schedule 19:19:20 dont trust my hare-brain lol, if the wiki says TBA it'll probalby be a couple weeks at least 19:19:27 i read oct 8 somewhere though i thought 19:20:07 i remember we had legal turning down all the list, needing a new one, turning down that too... a bit unpredictable 19:20:25 probably that is the time to close submissions 19:20:36 yeh 19:20:41 so, check out the page :) 19:20:42 one more item 19:20:53 #topic new websites 19:20:57 we should probably prepare as well -- I was wondering how to improve the wiki for release artwork... any ideas? Reflecting what we done with F14 perhaps F15_Artwork for the final versions of everything, F15_Artwork/Development for the progress and maybe something like F15_Artwork/Submissions for the various submissions? 19:20:57 :D 19:21:01 Schendje, sijis, and I have been working furiously on the new websites 19:21:06 http://stg.fedoracommunity.org 19:21:09 http://stg.fedoraproject.org 19:21:13 we have a string freeze this week 19:21:22 oops, slighly late with my writing... :D 19:21:26 there will still be image and css changes after this friday but if you watch those urls you'll see a lot of progress 19:21:30 its okay msourada we can go back to it 19:21:38 nice 19:21:41 #info take a look at the websites in staging and give your feedback! 19:21:44 #link http://stg.fedoracommunity.org 19:21:47 #link http://stg.fedoraproject.org 19:21:59 #topic Artwork process organization 19:22:06 mizmo: got my interview stuff? 19:22:11 #info msourada proposal Reflecting what we done with F14 perhaps F15_Artwork for the final versions of everything, F15_Artwork/Development for the progress and maybe something like F15_Artwork/Submissions for the various submissions? 19:22:15 fabsh, click 'using fedora' 19:22:29 msourada, i think that's a great proposal 19:22:33 we tend to be sloppy with our wiki pages 19:22:40 mizmo: nice :D 19:22:50 #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wallpapers Historical record of preivous themes 19:22:59 i took some time to dig thorugh the wiki and dig up all of our final artwork wiki pages 19:23:02 they are all over the pace 19:23:08 fabsh, it came out really great, thanks so much for doing that so quickly! 19:23:24 mizmo: no worries. awesome. will look at the sites and give feedback! 19:23:27 mimzo, ok I'll put some skeleton up probably later today or during tomorrow and ask for more feedback on list 19:23:33 msourada, sounds great! 19:23:44 #action msourada to put up skeleton on wiki for F15 artwork and ask for feedback on list 19:23:45 okay 19:23:55 time for the super fun project we can brainstorm and talk about the whole rest of the meeting lol 19:24:00 #topic Fedora the RPG 19:24:13 so im sure a lot of you folks know Spot 19:24:20 mmorpg :) 19:24:21 yep 19:24:22 he had this idea to turn fedora into a bit of an RPG 19:24:28 he does my browser ;) 19:24:38 so if you contribute to fedora (or even tasks as a first-time user) you'll gain points 19:24:50 awesome! :D 19:24:53 i have 2 things id like to talk about 19:24:54 one idea we could try to start building something like this 19:25:05 http://mairin.wordpress.com <= look at the playstation widget in the upper right 19:25:11 yes yes yes!!!! 19:25:11 1. libregraphicsmag.com articles? and 2. sxsw 19:25:24 mizmo: have foursquare style badges! 19:25:26 but this can wait til after the RPG discussion 19:25:30 davelab6, sweet! i'll add them to the agenda 19:25:38 we could start with just the widget 19:25:46 and build it into a full-blown game if we want with a website and everythign 19:25:56 that would be so ace! 19:25:59 mizmo, not having a playstation... maybe a dumb question... but what exactly is that widget for? 19:26:03 i'm totally up for helping 19:26:16 msourada: shows all your trophies from ps3 games 19:26:21 paulproteus_ is from openhatch.org and they have some 'training missions' you can do to learn things like how to use git or things like that. we could award points for trianing missions 19:26:23 and design team bounties! 19:26:26 we can set up quests 19:26:27 msourada: you get some for doing tasks in games 19:26:37 fabsh, ah ok, thanks, interesting 19:26:43 mizmo: oh yes! awesome!! 19:26:52 msourada, yep you get points for playing games and completing various quests inside the games, and you win trophies, and you use the widget to brag about how awesome you are :) and it shows your playstation network character as well 19:26:52 this is nice! it seems like a bit of a zeitgeist with the whole 'trophies' idea from omgubuntu 19:26:52 yeah this sounds good 19:26:56 mine is little miss strawberry 19:27:16 example: msourada is a ninja panda, level 1 packager and level 3 designer, with 5343 experience points and 354325 honor points 19:27:32 Emichan, yep exactly, i think they have some good ideas, i haven't followed it too closely though 19:27:35 yeah launchpad and /. have 'karma points' iirc 19:27:46 * msourada does not want to be only level 1 packager :D 19:27:48 i know for a really long time gnome bugzilla had an rpg-style points system 19:28:11 so what spot asked me to do 19:28:12 it's a really nice motivational tool 19:28:12 msourada can increase his level by doing quests 19:28:13 integrating various points from various FSW systems would be good; openhatch, llp, /., ohloh.net? 19:28:21 is if we could come up with a nice plan for a system to do this with fedora 19:28:31 and come up with some compelling mockups 19:28:40 FWIW we already have some code to import from Ohloh and Launchpad and bug trackers, and can share that (or we can just jam your RPG right into the openhatch codebase :P) 19:28:42 if we do a good job with it, he'll give us a developer from his team to work on it 19:28:48 i really think we should have trophy / badges graphics 19:28:51 * msourada does not know where to find the NPCs with quests :D 19:29:09 i think we need to build this in an open fashion and it should hook into existing systems especially openhatch 19:29:17 that old wasp logo thing RHAT R&D did had some integration code right? 19:29:17 i was starting to do sth like this for the linux outlaws community but didnt have enough time 19:29:24 Whoa, hey davelab6! 19:29:28 msourada: a NPC may review your package, or give karma 19:29:31 mizmo: spot? 19:29:36 scraperwiki might also help 19:29:37 davelab6, mugshot hehe 19:29:44 lo paulproteus_ 19:29:49 mizmo: mugshot, yes 19:30:05 davelab6, it integrated social networks but it was written in java and ive talked to the devels (most of whom still work at red hat) and apparently the code is not easy to reuse 19:30:07 world of opensourcecraft lol 19:30:08 I'm really excited, and I will write up my own thoughts -- I'm half busy with something else atm 19:30:10 mllerustad, yep 19:30:23 mllerustad: Spot is a person in RedHat land. 19:30:25 fabsh: lol 19:30:25 i love this idea too 19:30:27 * msourada maintains that kind of packages that don't get karma very often... 19:30:30 fabsh: World of Fedora 19:30:34 we were talking about this a little in the morning 19:30:39 count me in for helping with graphics and the like 19:30:46 i think there could be 3 ways to gain points in this RPG 19:30:49 World of Frecraft 19:30:52 haha 19:31:00 (mizmo, not everyone knows everyone, so when you refer to people, explain who they are) 19:31:02 i'm in! definitely! sounds like fun! :) 19:31:11 - automated (file a ticket in bugzilla. fix a trac ticket. vote in a fedora election. install a fresh fedora install.) 19:31:25 - nominated (hey you helped me out on the mailing list, thats nice so i'm going to give you kudos!) 19:32:02 -quest/bountied/missioned (we put out quests/bounties, you claimed one and completed it and learned some things along the way) 19:32:16 sounds great! 19:32:20 =+1 19:32:21 paulproteus_, ah sorry, mllerustad spot is my manager at Red Hat, this RPG thing is something he asked the Fedora design tam to take a look at 19:32:22 i love this idea! 19:32:30 mizmo, can we put some bonus quests on, say, Mana World? >D 19:32:35 if we get this going we could have something totally awesome 19:32:40 mllerustad, http://spot.livejournal.com <= his blog 19:32:41 get a lot of press etc :D 19:32:48 bonus points for not being naked in manaworld ;) 19:32:53 lol 19:32:59 rofl 19:33:01 if i file a bug can i get some clothes please? it's cold in here 19:33:07 lol 19:33:22 (manaworld is very.... ungenerous with clothing new users) 19:33:36 Some relevant blog posts from when I was doing "OpenHatch: The Game" type research: https://openhatch.org/blog/2009/game-mechanics-1/ and https://openhatch.org/blog/2009/game-mechanics-2/ 19:33:38 lol 19:33:46 ooooooh awesome mllerustad 19:33:50 #link https://openhatch.org/blog/2009/game-mechanics-1/ 19:33:54 #link https://openhatch.org/blog/2009/game-mechanics-2/ 19:34:18 some other ideas we had this morning 19:34:27 having avatars you can build with pieces 19:34:36 kind of like the planet.freedekstop.org south-park style avatars 19:34:36 +1 19:34:45 and you could win extra pieces/bit/costumes for your avatar 19:34:53 :D 19:34:53 spot also mentioned that he might be able to get funding to send actual prizes 19:34:56 hello all. sorry for being late 19:34:58 t-shirts, stickers, fun fedora swag 19:35:00 awww! you guys rock!!! 19:35:02 it's all good finalzone welcome 19:35:07 yay for prizes! 19:35:18 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdTVcFo2EQw - Cooperation and Engagement: What can board games teach us? 19:35:29 #link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdTVcFo2EQw - Cooperation and Engagement: What can board games teach us? 19:35:42 woo lots of brain food 19:35:49 i want to make sure we have time to get to dave's topics 19:35:50 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihUt-163gZI - Putting the Fun in Functional: Applying Game Mechanics to Functional Software 19:35:58 #link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihUt-163gZI - Putting the Fun in Functional: Applying Game Mechanics to Functional Software 19:36:14 Which resulted in this "white paper" game description: 19:36:18 #link http://littlegreenriver.com/stuffs/OpenHatchTheGame.pdf 19:36:18 let's brainstorm for 5-10 minutes more? hard stop at :45 19:36:28 Amy Jo Kim's company Shufflebrain builds smart games for social networks, starting with Facebook. - http://www.insidefacebook.com/2008/12/07/facebook-using-game-design-to-drive-new-user-engagement/) 19:36:42 Her book Community Building on the Web was published in 2000, and has been translated into 6 languages. 19:36:59 oh this is a great model for writing up the game mechanisms mllerustad 19:37:00 maybe we can tie this in with status.net as well 19:37:09 #link Amy Jo Kim's company Shufflebrain builds smart games for social networks, starting with Facebook. - http://www.insidefacebook.com/2008/12/07/facebook-using-game-design-to-drive-new-user-engagement/) 19:37:13 generate lots of buzz about it 19:37:15 Which never actually got built (yet) but... 19:37:19 #info Amy Jo Kim's book Community Building on the Web was published in 2000, and has been translated into 6 languages. 19:37:22 mizmo: :) 19:37:31 if we build this 19:37:38 how can we build it in a way openhatch can use it easily 19:37:42 it would be great if it could federate 19:37:46 maybe with openid or something 19:37:46 and we should make it easy for other projects to use it too 19:37:51 paulproteus_: ^ ? 19:37:53 so if i heart someone on open hatch i get open hatch points too 19:37:56 mizmo: snap! 19:37:57 (I know crap about federation) 19:37:58 maybe each installation 19:38:03 gives you a separate bucket of points 19:38:11 so i have a fedora points bucket, an openhatch points bucket, etc 19:38:14 agpl!!! 19:38:14 Federation between communities isn't obviously a reasonable thing. 19:38:27 paulproteus_, but what if i do some work in fedora, some work in gnome upstream 19:38:28 But where you want data to flow, you just create standard APIs. 19:38:36 The only thing left is discoverability of that data. 19:38:43 kk 19:39:02 hmm 19:39:04 As for discoverabilty, if you want, you can add a note to the domain's DNS on how someone can access the particular kind of data you want. 19:39:18 i think talking to GNU Social folks and status.net folks would be good 19:39:28 matt lee and jon philips i know 19:39:34 a soap api should be discoverable 19:39:38 #info i think talking to GNU Social folks and status.net folks would be good - matt lee / jon phillips 19:39:44 I know them too; live near mattl and used to work with rejon 19:40:00 scraperwiki can provide APIs to non-API websites 19:40:04 #info open apis > federations, if you want, you can add a note to the domain's DNS on how someone can access the particular kind of data you want to make it discoverable 19:40:04 SOAP isn't a good strategy. Basically, federation we can do, and talk to me afterwards or when I'm less distracted. :P 19:40:17 kk 19:40:23 i think use-case wise 19:40:46 we want to make sure if i dabble in fedora but i'm a gnome rockstar, or if i'm a suse rockstar but i dabble in 6 other upstream projects, that i can earn my dues 19:40:49 maybe we should talk to the status.net people 19:40:57 they know a lot about this stuff 19:41:04 yeahah 19:41:10 diaspora #fail 19:41:20 fainf lol 19:41:22 * paulproteus_ sighs 19:41:23 free as in not free 19:41:45 mizmo: That use case will be easy to manage. Do you want to have that full on conversation now? 19:41:46 sorry, ahem ;) 19:42:00 paulproteus_, well we've got ~4 min 19:42:02 If you want, I can focus on this and we can nail down the details, but I think for this conversation "It can happen" is enough. (_: 19:42:04 on this topic 19:42:05 (-: 19:42:13 im wondering if theres other use cases we might be missing 19:42:21 Oh, that makes sense. Let's see.. 19:42:21 in ensuring it'll be something anybody can use 19:42:29 since more than just the agpl is involved :) 19:42:36 * mizmo doesn't want to repeat mistake the fedora community app did 19:42:56 #link http://admin.fedoraproject.org/community <= Fedora Community app 19:43:01 maybe we should just start developing it 19:43:04 and be open 19:43:10 and ask interested parties 19:43:16 well the first step i think is to sketch out some mockups / plans for how it'll work 19:43:23 and brainstorm like this along the way 19:43:26 mizmo: /me thinks about use cases 19:43:46 fabsh, we need a nice writeup to impress our 'investor' :) 19:43:49 I mean, how do things compare across projects? 19:43:54 So one thing you'll want is the ability to import "experience" from projects. 19:44:05 and i can totally own putting that writeup together and gathering up our sketches and ideas 19:44:07 Maybe I have a 1000 Fedora points and 10000 OpenHatch points. 19:44:09 We do that in OpenHatch by searching code repositories (as indexed by Ohloh) 19:44:09 lol a.fp.o/c 19:44:21 mizmo: good point 19:44:24 Or maybe just 11000 total points, but that requires both systems to agree on what a "point" takes to earn. 19:44:38 Otherwise you get projects inflating their point values like modern pinball machines :) 19:44:42 mllerustad, i think having separate buckets is better 19:44:44 You want each "site" (community) to be able to determine how other communities' points apply. 19:44:49 i think we should'nt federate point 19:44:51 *points 19:44:52 Mostly they'll be separate buckets as mizmo says. 19:44:55 if 10000 points gets me a fedora tshirt, but i earned 9999 of those in opensuse... 19:44:56 But you might want links. 19:44:57 not cool 19:44:58 :) 19:45:04 just display the achievements the other servers create maybe? 19:45:11 Probably it's enough, for a start, to use http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-me 19:45:18 i think part of it is that we want to be able to figure out, who is this person? what are their interests? what's their experience? 19:45:29 exactly 19:45:31 new users sometimes get lead astray because it's hard to figure this out about another person through online communication 19:45:33 on the other side 19:45:39 we also want folks to be able to take stock of their achievements 19:45:43 and to motivate them to be awesome 19:45:46 Yeah, and that's just a data export issue. 19:45:47 things like ovting in their community 19:45:48 so display if someone earned a dev badge in inkscape on the fedora instance too 19:45:56 and helping others out (thus the recommendation / kudos system) 19:46:01 fabsh, exactly! 19:46:07 okay 19:46:09 I guess each project would need to develop and host their own badges. 19:46:12 so we've got just 15 minutes left 19:46:13 So rel=me + standard formats should be enough. 19:46:19 i want to make sure we have time for davelab6's topics, 19:46:24 so what i want to do so we can continue this convo 19:46:24 mllerustad: we could probably reuse many of them 19:46:30 And somehow this system is able to slurp down the badges from all the other projects, which somehow it knows about. 19:46:33 i'll send out a whenisgood.net invite for us to meet on this again? 19:46:44 b # thumbs-up 19:46:44 fabsh: Right, but the architecture shouldn't assume it, is what I mean. 19:46:45 ok 19:46:48 mizmo: ok 19:46:51 mllerustad: yep 19:46:53 i can send it out to the fedora design team mailing list. if you're not on the list can you privmsg me your email and i'll add you to the invite? 19:47:08