19:02:27 <mizmo> #startmeeting
19:02:27 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Sep  7 19:02:27 2010 UTC.  The chair is mizmo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:02:27 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
19:02:35 <mizmo> #topic roll call
19:02:43 * mizmo Máirín Duffy
19:02:47 <mizmo> anyone else around?
19:03:04 <inkscaper> Alexander Smirnov
19:03:11 <mizmo> hey Alexander
19:03:18 <mizmo> you had a fan in here last week who was looking for you
19:03:26 <mizmo> he really liked your website banner work
19:03:42 <inkscaper> thanks
19:04:13 <mizmo> anyone else around?
19:04:14 * jsmith lurks
19:05:00 <mizmo> well
19:05:11 * Emichan is here!
19:05:16 <mizmo> hey Emichan!
19:05:21 <Emichan> Hi mo! :D
19:05:23 <mizmo> i need to talk to you after the meeting (good news)
19:05:41 <Emichan> :) great
19:05:41 <mizmo> aiight i'll get started as folks start filtering in
19:05:45 <obfpen_> Marc is reconnected
19:05:49 <mizmo> #topic supplemental wallpapers
19:05:49 * mbenitez 'listening'
19:06:05 <mizmo> so nicubunu & Emichan have done an awesome job with the supplemental wallpapers since last meeting
19:06:11 <mizmo> the blog post is here http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/2010/09/fedora-14-supplemental-wallpapers.html
19:06:24 <mizmo> we've already gotten some great feedback on the wallpapers and i've seen folks around the office here using them already :)
19:06:31 * Schendje is also here, sorry! :)
19:06:39 <mizmo> Emichan, do you know the status on the attribution? are all of the wallpapers packageable at this point?
19:06:52 <mizmo> it sounded like a lot of the photographers were cool with the attriubtion we offered?
19:07:06 <Emichan> hold on - checking
19:07:11 <mizmo> kk
19:07:36 * wonderer is there ....
19:07:38 <Emichan> Last i heard, we haven't heard back from Hamed Saber but that's all
19:07:43 <mizmo> okay great
19:07:50 <mizmo> he did one of the wallpapers right? so we'll be able to package all but 1
19:07:59 <Emichan> oh tomorrow.. and thou apocalypse are his
19:08:06 <mizmo> oh okay two of them
19:08:10 <Emichan> right
19:08:32 <Emichan> does anyone have any feedback on the wallpapers re editing?
19:08:36 <mizmo> did you and nicubunu split the emails or did you do all of the emails to the authors?
19:08:50 <mizmo> (it might be good to upload the emails from the author to the wiki to have them on record)
19:08:59 <mizmo> let me load them up really quick
19:09:02 <Emichan> we split them
19:09:53 <mizmo> Emichan, okay cool. would it be a pita to zip up the emails you got from the authors? if you email to me ill make sure they get to the wiki
19:09:56 <mizmo> and i can ask nicu to do the same
19:10:02 <Emichan> np!
19:10:45 <mizmo> as for wallpaper feedback, i think:
19:10:49 <mizmo> 1) this one should have the watermark rubber stamped out in Gimp http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/File:Dutch_skies.jpg (the license does allow it)
19:11:26 <mizmo> 2) http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/File:Autumn_colors.jpg <= i played with this one a bit at home, it seems grainy at full-size... we should either scale it to a small size (800x600ish) or try some serious photomanip to clean it up
19:11:55 <Emichan> autumn colors is relatively small as it is
19:12:09 <mizmo> 3) i think this one would look very nice with a, what do you call it, darkened edges... http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/File:Mricon-f14-backgrounds-submission-red.jpg
19:12:16 <mizmo> why is the word slipped from my brain? :-p
19:12:32 <mizmo> vignette
19:12:33 <obfpen_> vignette
19:12:33 <mizmo> thats it
19:12:38 <mizmo> lol yep :) thanks obfpen_
19:12:57 <mizmo> all the others i think are pretty amzing as they are
19:13:10 <mizmo> 4) we may want to crop all of them to one of the standard sizes we ship
19:13:47 <mizmo> let me list out the standard sizes
19:14:34 <mizmo> - widescreen (1920x1200)
19:15:37 <mizmo> - standard (2048 × 1536)
19:15:42 <mizmo> - 5:4 (1280x1024)
19:15:57 <mizmo> so if we can keep those ratios with the supplemental wallpapers it might be a nice thing
19:16:01 <mizmo> so they dont get sretched
19:16:09 <mizmo> just whichever one the wallpaper naturally would fit to
19:16:22 <Emichan> sounds good
19:16:23 <mizmo> if the wallpaper is widescreen-ish then just do it 1920x1200 - no need to do each one in all three ratios i think
19:17:02 <Emichan> msourada said on the ml he didn't think he would have time to package it
19:17:10 <Emichan> can anyone else package them?
19:17:12 <mizmo> ah okay
19:17:13 <mizmo> i can try
19:17:25 <mizmo> let me look up the deadline for beta
19:17:58 <wonderer> mizmo: can you try a short SOP how to package those so that next time anyone else can do it ... :-)
19:18:05 <mizmo> i think i have time to do it
19:18:09 <mizmo> yeh thats a good idea wonderer
19:18:14 <mizmo> ill have to learn all over again when i do it :)
19:18:20 * mizmo did it for F8 back in the day
19:18:31 <Emichan> if there are instructions somewhere, i can do it, but i've never packaged anything before, so...
19:18:49 <mizmo> Emichan, can you take care of resizing the wallpapers by say friday morning?
19:18:55 <mizmo> then i can try to package it on friday afternoon
19:19:15 <Emichan> mizmo, sure
19:20:03 <mizmo> sweet
19:20:13 <mizmo> okay does anyone have any other questions or concerns about the supplemental wallpaper project?
19:20:25 <obfpen_> I had a thought
19:20:31 <obfpen_> To perhaps include an XML slideshow file
19:20:37 <obfpen_> It seems a shame that Cosmos is the only one
19:22:06 <mizmo> obfpen_, oh that's a great idea
19:22:08 <mizmo> i can throw one together
19:22:22 <mizmo> obfpen_, awesome, *awesome* idea
19:22:33 <mizmo> obfpen_, have you ever written one before?
19:22:45 <obfpen_> You could say that
19:22:54 <obfpen_> I wrote Create Background Slideshow
19:22:59 <obfpen_> which is a GUI for it
19:23:07 <obfpen_> https://launchpad.net/creb
19:23:09 <obfpen_> https://launchpad.net/crebs
19:23:16 <Emichan> obfpen_awesome! :)
19:23:37 <mizmo> obfpen_, oh dude kick ass
19:24:00 <mizmo> obfpen_, soooo :) would you be willing to make the slideshow xml for our supplemental wallpapers?
19:24:12 <obfpen_> Certainly
19:24:17 <mizmo> obfpen_, kickin :)
19:24:42 <mizmo> okay totally sweet
19:24:54 <mizmo> i'll move on to the next topic but feel free to shout out if you wanna point anything out
19:24:58 <mizmo> #topic F14 beta wallpaper
19:25:18 <mizmo> (Emichan, thanks for the email to Martin!)
19:25:27 <Emichan> mizmo, np ;)
19:25:44 <mizmo> inkscaper, so you did a few mockups for F14 beta's wallpaper, right?
19:26:01 <inkscaper> I'm send my wallpaper refresh to wiki
19:26:14 <Emichan> the wiki should be current if anyone wants to go look - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F14_Artwork#Wallpapers_2
19:27:08 <mizmo> oh wow okay
19:27:11 * mizmo looks thru
19:28:30 <mizmo> does anyone have any favorites or any that stand out to them?
19:29:01 <mizmo> inkscaper, of your mockups i really like this one - how did you get the colors like that? it's much softer than the alpha wallpaper's hard lines
19:29:49 * jsmith looks
19:29:59 <mizmo> I think this one by Emichan might be my favorite, but I'm worried about the light bubbles being perceived as too close to ubuntu light's wallpaper https://fedoraproject.org/w/uploads/1/1d/F14-wallpaper-remix-em-light.png
19:30:02 <wonderer> I like Alexanders as the soft-one and the original one.
19:30:30 <obfpen__> Emily's subtle revision and inkscaper's 2-2 are my favourites
19:30:32 <mizmo> the softness of the lines in remix-em-light is really gorgeous though
19:30:41 * jsmith likes Alexander's, as well as the light version of Emily's
19:30:55 <mizmo> it has contrast without the harshness of the alpha mockup
19:31:29 <mizmo> i also like how it seems to be moving forward in space.... i think conceptually that's good for fedora. the alpha one kind of looks like it's moving at you
19:32:03 <Emichan> mizmo - you think it might be too close to ubuntu's b/c of the light spots?
19:32:33 <mizmo> Emichan, maybe :( I know people will say it is even if that wasn't intended. already people are saying we're redesigning our website because ubuntu.com got redesigned recently (but our process started 2 years ago, theirs didnt)
19:32:54 <mizmo> Emichan, inkscaper, obfpen__, wonderer can you think of another way to add sparkle without the lens flares?
19:33:02 <Emichan> mizmo - i can try taking them off, but i think that corner needs something...
19:33:20 <mizmo> maybe aurora bars?
19:33:57 <mizmo> this kind of thing, at a diagonal http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_W1ueYt1O3xs/SS26MnGAGoI/AAAAAAAAMlc/MVxYuhOHVLo/s320/Aurora.jpg
19:34:14 <Emichan> mizmo - ubuntu did everything first, even if they did it after us ;)
19:34:23 <Emichan> mizmo - i like that aurora :)
19:34:24 <mizmo> heh
19:34:52 <Emichan> maybe we can adapt it or something like it
19:35:06 <mizmo> this was a fedurora (hehe) wallpaper i did a looooong time ago and i think a lot of people liked it, a similar concept (not executed nearly as well as your mockup tho) http://pookstar.deviantart.com/art/Fedora-Borealis-Night-Sky-44248254?q=gallery%3Apookstar%2F6426332&qo=37
19:35:21 <mizmo> grr yucky url, cleaner one: http://pookstar.deviantart.com/art/Fedora-Borealis-Night-Sky-44248254
19:35:46 <mizmo> another one from the same time period http://pookstar.deviantart.com/art/Blue-Baubles-49033620
19:35:58 <mizmo> (those are both inkscaped and the SVGs are downloadable from the pages)
19:35:58 <Emichan> mizmo - cute! ^-^
19:36:13 <mizmo> I would need an updated wallpaper probably by Friday to get it packaged for beta
19:36:21 <mizmo> (hooray for the slip)
19:36:47 <mizmo> im willing to take a stab at it if nobody else has time - it's up for grabs
19:36:52 <mizmo> anyone want to give it a shot?
19:37:05 * mizmo is proposing, btw, https://fedoraproject.org/w/uploads/1/1d/F14-wallpaper-remix-em-light.png with the lens flares replaced
19:37:10 <Emichan> well, i'll try of course
19:37:13 <mbenitez> could there be replication of the main 'figure' in the lower corner? kind of like the lines multiply to create a shape and that shape then multiplies itself, etc ?
19:37:27 <mizmo> okay awesome Emichan
19:37:37 <mizmo> maybe we'll both try it and see which one comes out strongest by friday?
19:37:43 * mizmo might not have so very much time to work on it
19:37:57 <Emichan> sounds good! i guess we can just get feedback on the ml?
19:37:59 <mizmo> mbenitez, it might work
19:38:01 <mizmo> yeh,
19:38:08 <mizmo> i think thats a good plan Emichan
19:38:27 <mbenitez> because I really like that design, the colors are awesome Emichan!
19:38:30 <Emichan> the sources are linked, so anyone else who wants to can have at it!
19:38:35 <mizmo> yay
19:38:38 <Emichan> thanks mbenitez!
19:38:43 <Emichan> :)
19:38:53 <mizmo> okay anyone have any more questions/concerns on the f14 beta wallpaper?
19:39:27 <mizmo> okay cool
19:39:32 <mizmo> #topic f14 beta splashes
19:39:45 <mizmo> okay so we see from the list Emichan did an awesome job putting otgether boot splashes for f14 :)
19:39:48 * mizmo looks up url
19:40:00 <mizmo> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F14_Artwork_Supporting_Grahics
19:40:34 <mizmo> so the tricky thing about grub
19:40:39 <mizmo> is that we only have 14 colors to work with
19:41:01 <mizmo> out of the four proposed for grub i think inkscaper's  is probably going to work out the best in 14-color mode
19:42:01 <mizmo> https://fedoraproject.org/w/uploads/1/18/F14-beta-syslinux-fullcolor-V2-3.png <= i dont think that glow will work though
19:42:41 <mizmo> what do you think?
19:42:49 <Emichan> the logo should show up just fine without the glow i think
19:43:09 <mizmo> usually with grub i've taken out the F logomark and just had the white logotext 'fedora' - that usually comes out okay
19:43:17 <mizmo> for syslinux we get 256 color, so i could add the logo back in for that
19:43:23 <mizmo> the glow would probably work there too
19:43:37 <Schendje> yep I agree with Emichan - the glow may not be needed here
19:43:47 <mizmo> for firstboot, i love this option https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/File:F14-firstboot-splash-em.png
19:44:27 <mizmo> for anaconda im not sure though
19:44:53 <mizmo> one thing about the firstboot banner is it is kind of specific to the f14 wallpaper
19:45:04 <mizmo> if we wanted to go generic maybe we should just do a nice blue gradient?
19:45:09 <mizmo> (same with the anaconda top banner)
19:45:25 <Emichan> are we going to try to do a generic anaconda this time around?
19:45:38 <mizmo> i think so
19:45:47 <mizmo> that'll save us the trouble in f15
19:45:56 <mizmo> i dont know though what do you think?
19:46:09 <mizmo> we could keep anaconda generic and use the cool firstboot banner?
19:46:12 <Schendje> so in the previous release, the anaconda splash is the one with the clouds, right?
19:46:15 <mizmo> see what the reaction is?
19:46:17 <mizmo> Schendje, yeppers!
19:46:40 <mizmo> this is the f13 anaconda splash: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F13_Artwork#Center_Splashes
19:46:45 <mbenitez> if the idea is to keep most splash screens within the same design I like this for anaconda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/File:F14-anaconda-banner-bright.png
19:47:02 <Emichan> mizmo, I think that's a good idea! one less splash to worry about next release
19:47:13 <mizmo> mbenitez, yeh i agree that's the strongest design for f14's anaconda splash center
19:47:34 <mizmo> if we want to go generic....
19:47:39 <mizmo> we could do this design without the clouds? http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F13_Artwork#Center_Splashes
19:47:52 <Schendje> mizmo: yeah I was just looking at those
19:48:01 <mizmo> i think that uses modata though, we'd use comfortaa
19:48:07 <Schendje> as in, keeping the same idea but making it generic
19:48:27 <Schendje> i just really like the "marble" feeling it has :)
19:48:39 <Emichan> so it would be the logo mark + release number on a transparent bg?
19:48:43 <mizmo> yeh
19:49:10 <mizmo> what we've done in past releases too is to make a 'preview' mockup that shows it in place, like this http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/File:F13-anaconda-preview.png
19:49:48 <mizmo> in recent releases we've been playing with working within the default bg color of the anaconda ui and using transparency to make it look like the images are 'burned in' to the window (if that makes sense)
19:50:41 <mizmo> so what do we think?
19:50:59 <mizmo> i think the syslinux + grub mocks that inkscaper did will work fine, and they are I tink generic enough to keep for more than one release
19:51:13 <mizmo> it sounds like we're not sure if we're going generic or not for anaconda + firstboot, any strong feelings either way?
19:51:21 * mizmo is kind of pro generic at this point
19:51:28 <Emichan> I'm in favor of it, all we'd have to do is change the release number for the anaconda splah
19:51:37 <Emichan> simple and elegant :)
19:51:43 <mizmo> Emichan, using the F13 one?
19:51:47 <mizmo> (sans cloud?)
19:51:52 <Emichan> mizmo - yep
19:51:54 <mizmo> kk
19:51:58 <mizmo> then for firstboot
19:52:06 * wonderer is for generic ones ... without a Release number...
19:52:08 <mizmo> maybe a simple circular gradient
19:52:16 <mizmo> wonderer, well
19:52:33 <mizmo> what fedora QA worked out is that if we have a backup graphic with no release number, then we can ship that in case the one with the number isn't ready on time
19:52:45 <mizmo> but you know we can also script, using python, the generation of the graphic with the number
19:52:59 <Emichan> I don't think firstboot would be that hard to keep release specific if it's based on the wallpaper...
19:53:06 <mizmo> so we could have generic "Fedora Beta" "Fedora Alpha" "Fedora Final" "Fedora Rawhide" graphics, and generate them with numbers instead with python
19:53:07 <mizmo> yeh
19:53:18 <mizmo> okay that sounds smart Emichan
19:53:21 <mizmo> so the plan is:
19:53:31 <mizmo> - generic anaconda splash based on the f13 generic one (sans clouds)
19:53:43 <mizmo> - this graphic for the firstboot banner https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/File:F14-firstboot-splash-em.png
19:53:58 <mizmo> - plain blue gradient for anaconda top banner
19:54:11 <Emichan> mizmo, do we even need an anaconda top banner?
19:54:22 <mizmo> - inkscaper's graphics for syslinux/grub https://fedoraproject.org/w/uploads/1/18/F14-beta-syslinux-fullcolor-V2-3.png
19:54:28 <mizmo> Emichan, yeh, it looks a little weird without it
19:54:29 <Emichan> i installed f13 in a vm to go through the installer, and it didn't use the banner
19:54:47 <mizmo> Emichan, it should have looked like this: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/File:F13-anaconda-preview.png with the grey fedora in the upper left
19:54:47 <nicubunu> %$#*#$#! only now i did remember about the meeting starting time, sorry
19:54:57 <mizmo> for that the banner had a transparent background with just hte 'fedora' graphic on the left
19:55:24 <mizmo> because the center splash is only visible on the first screen, i think it's important to have a banner on the top, if only so the user knows at every screen it's fedora they're installing
19:55:35 <mizmo> (plus the center splash says F(number), not fedora (number) )
19:55:41 <mizmo> its all good nicubunu
19:55:52 <mizmo> does the proposal seem reasonable?
19:56:07 <Schendje> +1 for me
19:56:31 <mbenitez> +1
19:56:41 <mizmo> nicubunu, hey i had a quick ques for you
19:56:52 <mizmo> nicubunu, can you send me the emails the photo authors sent approving our attribution?
19:56:59 <mizmo> i want to upload them to the wiki so we have them on record
19:57:05 <nicubunu> sure, 3 of 4 replied
19:57:08 <mizmo> (i dont anticipate any issues, but i think it's a good idea to have them on record)
19:57:10 <mizmo> okay cool
19:57:17 <wonderer> +1
19:57:18 <mizmo> aiigh
19:57:21 <mizmo> #topic open floor
19:57:26 <wonderer> !
19:57:28 <mizmo> open floor! time to go crazy
19:57:32 <mizmo> or go quiet
19:57:36 <mizmo> up to you :)
19:57:37 <Emichan> mizmo, okay, but the banner didn't show up for me in anaconda, so just wondering. here's the screenshot: http://www.fightingcrane.com/emily/fedora/newfedora%20Virtual%20Machine_002.png
19:57:52 <mizmo> Emichan, weird....!
19:57:54 <mizmo> maybe we broke it
19:57:59 <mizmo> hmm
19:58:09 <mizmo> Emichan, do you have that in front of you now?
19:58:14 <mizmo> does it show up on the next screen, if so?
19:58:25 <obfpen_> I noticed it too. No banner at all
19:58:28 <Emichan> that's an old screenshot, so i'm not sure
19:58:37 <mizmo> hmmmmmmm
19:58:38 <Emichan> i did it a cpl weeks ago
19:58:45 <mizmo> okay so the filename in fedora-logos package might be wrong :-/
19:58:48 <wonderer> now we are all here I have a wish for the upcoming FUDCON, because there will be some press stuff and I am unable to attend. I need as much as possible pictures, prefered in RAW from all kind of fedora and (of course) from jsmith as well :-)
19:58:53 <Emichan> gimme a few mins and i can check
19:59:05 <jsmith> wonderer: You want a picture of me?
19:59:11 <mizmo> wonderer, i dont normally shoot in raw - do you know how to work with raw?
19:59:19 <wonderer> jsmith: YES! DEFINITLY ;-)
19:59:23 <mizmo> wonderer, i was planning to shoot photos anyway so im happy to shoot raw if its useful for you
19:59:27 <mizmo> Emichan, that would be awesome
19:59:43 <wonderer> mizmo: yes, nicu knows how to adjust your cam, too :-)
20:00:02 <mizmo> hehe
20:00:12 <mizmo> he's way better than i am with the camera
20:00:31 <mizmo> he takes photos of women and they pose for him, i try taking photos and they chase me away and angrily cuss at me in german
20:00:32 <jsmith> wonderer: http://jsmith.fedorapeople.org/Images/JaredSmithPressPic1.jpg
20:00:34 <wonderer> mizmo: I need really good portraits of Jared in front of all kind of Fedora Logo (Logo blurred, his Face sharp), etc.
20:01:02 <nicubunu> next week at fudcon we can take plenty of photos
20:01:07 <wonderer> jsmith: �m, I know that ... its nor Fedoraishy enough *gg* :-D
20:01:25 <mizmo> wonderer, so youre not able to go to zurich???
20:01:26 * mizmo very sad :(
20:01:36 <nicubunu> mizmo: the mails will be sent tomorrow morning, i have them in the other computer
20:01:39 * jsmith would have liked to meet wonderer at FUDCon as well
20:01:42 <mizmo> nicubunu, okay great
20:01:52 <wonderer> but I can gimp some ambassador shirt and Fedora booth logo around jsmith if nobody gets a better shot of him ;-)
20:02:01 <mizmo> hehe
20:02:06 * jsmith is hoping that mizmo and nicubunu can teach him some mad photography skillz in Zurich
20:02:12 <nicubunu> there will be at least 5 people connected with the design team there
20:02:29 <wonderer> jsmith: Yes, we DEFINITLY need some other time/place or so for some marketing, etc. but I have to work :-(
20:03:34 <wonderer> reminds me - mizmo, nicu and all the other photographers - please talk about our Design-FAD with Photoshooting. Maybe we can plan that after F14 to be...
20:04:44 <wonderer> jsmith: I talked yesterday to the woman responsable for the PR-Interviews. I think Kara will make you some appointments :-) Be aware of that hehehe.
20:04:45 <nicubunu> Design FAD with photoshooting?
20:05:21 <wonderer> nicubunu: YES. DEFINITLY!!! Also to use for maybe some upcoming photobook (if that will come ... probably ... or not ...).
20:05:43 <nicubunu> ok, we take shoots of whom?
20:06:26 <wonderer> nicubunu: I know some guys from photoshopworld (yes, I know but there is no GIMP World Tour...) so we maybe can get some models for Product presentation, selfportraits, etc.
20:06:53 <wonderer> nicubunu: contacts now worldwide, dude :-)
20:07:06 <nicubunu> product presentation = fedora? why not use people inside fedora for that?
20:07:59 <wonderer> nicubunu: I thought Design FAD IS from and for Fedora people ... I only said i CAN get some from outside...
20:09:03 <wonderer> nicubunu: On the Design FAD we can do the shooting and also the retouching for some readymade materials for web and press. Generic stuff we can use for upcoming releases.
20:09:08 <nicubunu> hmmm.... put it in Romania and I can bring you a lot of models :D
20:09:21 <wonderer> :-)
20:10:24 <Emichan> mizmo, i'm looking at the installer in a vm right now, and there is no banner showing on any of the install screens...
20:10:43 <mizmo> Emichan, okay i guess we screwed up the packaging in F13 :( good catch
20:10:59 * wonderer has to change chanel for MKTG meeting...
20:11:17 <mizmo> see ya wonderer!
20:11:26 <Emichan> by wonderer
20:11:49 * wonderer is allways around ... but busy on several chans ;-)
20:11:53 <wonderer> have fun...
20:12:45 <mizmo> #endmeeting