fedora-design
LOGS
19:00:46 <mizmo> #startmeeting
19:00:46 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Aug  3 19:00:46 2010 UTC.  The chair is mizmo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:00:46 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
19:00:55 * ianweller will be here in a sec
19:01:07 <mizmo> #topic rollcall
19:01:12 <fabsh> here
19:01:14 * mizmo Máirín Duffy
19:01:14 <maxamillion> here
19:01:15 * Schendje reporting
19:01:16 <tatica> maria leandro :D
19:01:25 * maxamillion Adam Miller
19:01:37 <maxamillion> (proper format for rollcall?)
19:01:40 * fabsh Fabian Scherschel
19:01:41 <mizmo> yay welcome to your first design team meeting maxamillion :)
19:01:48 <mizmo> there's no format, whatever works :)
19:01:50 * Emichan here!
19:01:51 <maxamillion> mizmo: many thanks!
19:01:56 <inkscaper> Alexander Smirnov
19:01:59 <maxamillion> mizmo: very happy to be here
19:02:02 <finalzone> luya tshimbalanga there and greeting all
19:02:03 <mizmo> hey Alexander!
19:02:20 <mizmo> all right cool, let me hit up the first topic real quick
19:02:25 <mizmo> #topic schedule reminders
19:02:27 <inkscaper> hey Máirín
19:02:30 <mizmo> we're got breathing room right now
19:02:37 <mizmo> in terms of tasks and when they are due
19:02:48 <mizmo> but things are going to get crazy once the F14 splashes are due I think
19:03:00 <mizmo> #info feedback period on alpha wallpaper ends 17 Aug.
19:03:09 <mizmo> #info supplemental wallpaper submission period ends 19 Aug.
19:03:16 <fabsh> noted
19:03:23 * nicubunu present too
19:03:24 <mizmo> so in terms of F14 those are dates we should be thinking of
19:03:30 <finalzone> that reminds me to submit my extra wallpapers
19:03:37 * kylebaker present
19:03:38 <mizmo> finalzone, please do! :)
19:04:02 <mizmo> i received two submissions this past week and they are pretty cool, one of my friends is a beekeeper and took a picture of his bees, another person from the fedora forums submitted a moon photo
19:04:03 <finalzone> okies =)
19:04:22 <fabsh> cool
19:04:23 <mizmo> okay any issues/concerns/questions regarding the schedule from anybody?
19:04:27 <fabsh> are they on the wiki?
19:04:35 <mizmo> fabsh, yep i uploaded them this morning :)
19:04:43 <mizmo> the last two in the gallery last i checked
19:04:53 <mizmo> aiight let's move on to the next topic
19:05:02 <mizmo> #topic fedora brand fonts project
19:05:02 <fabsh> mizmo: gotta see.... :)
19:05:44 <mizmo> #info ianweller posted a great summary of his conversation with pam chestek regarding our trademarks and fonts http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/design-team/2010-July/003041.html
19:05:44 <fabsh> wow.... i love those mizmo. ace!
19:05:48 <mizmo> :)
19:06:15 <mizmo> so quick summary of ian's email (which also is a summary lol)
19:06:31 <mizmo> #info we shouldn't change the font of the fedora logo or the fedora remix logo (but we can change the remix logo colors)
19:06:37 * Schendje feels itchy on seeing the bees O_o
19:07:02 <mizmo> #info we shouldn't change the 'fudcon' logotype in the fudcon logo, but we *can* change the 'location' font to be comfortaa if we like
19:07:17 <mizmo> so
19:07:35 <mizmo> does it make sense, do you think, to change the location in the fudcon logo to comfortaa?
19:07:46 <finalzone> I think so
19:07:48 <nicubunu> yes
19:07:48 <maxamillion> would the two fonts look good next to one another?
19:07:58 <inkscaper> yes
19:08:01 * maxamillion isn't familiar with comfortaa (apologies)
19:08:04 <mizmo> maxamillion, thats a good question. maybe ianweller could do a mockup
19:08:20 <mizmo> maxamillion, it's actually very similar to the font used for the fedora logo (bryant2) with a little more flourishes/characer
19:08:29 * tatica has test comfortaa... +1
19:08:31 <mizmo> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Design/Fedora_Branding_Fonts
19:08:31 <nicubunu> maxamillion: like this? https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/File:Artwork_ArtTeamProjects_WikiDesign_ArtTeamN1.png
19:08:47 <kylebaker> If the size relation of the location to the logo varies enough no one will notice they are different
19:08:54 <maxamillion> ooo, I like it
19:09:15 <inkscaper> looks good
19:09:20 <maxamillion> I actually like Comfortaa better than the old font
19:09:20 <mizmo> i like how this one came out too http://identi.ca/group/fedoradesign (the group avatar)
19:09:25 <mizmo> maxamillion, same here lol
19:09:35 <finalzone> comfortaa package is currently under review
19:09:39 <finalzone> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=619518
19:09:41 <mizmo> okay so let's agree to update the fudcon logo with comfortaa for the location
19:09:53 <mizmo> #info we'll change the fudcon logo with comfortaa for the location
19:09:55 * finalzone nods
19:10:02 * Emichan agrees
19:10:05 <mizmo> the other font-related thing, cantarell vs droid sans
19:10:07 * ianweller nods
19:10:18 <mizmo> Emichan did an awesome job building an app to do the comparison
19:10:28 <Schendje> does anyone know yet how we can fix cantarell in inkscape?
19:10:35 <mizmo> Schendje, how is it broken?
19:10:41 <Schendje> the defaulting-to-bold thing
19:10:54 <Emichan> http://www.fightingcrane.com/emily/fedora/fontfight
19:11:00 <Emichan> if anyone hasn't seen it
19:11:05 <nicubunu> the bug is with the font or with inkscape?
19:11:09 <fabsh_> sorry...... my connection died :/
19:11:12 <mizmo> #link http://www.fightingcrane.com/emily/fedora/fontfight  Emily's font comparison app
19:11:29 <mizmo> fabsh_, it's all good, we are talking cantarell vs droid sans
19:11:38 * ianweller is finally back
19:11:46 <fabsh_> that is cool
19:11:49 <mizmo> Schendje, i guess it depends where the bug lies. what we could do is decide to hold off a decision until we try to get the problem fixed
19:11:54 <fabsh_> i prefer cantarell's spacing
19:12:02 <maxamillion> I think Cantarell is easier on the eyes, in large amounts of text Droid Sans appears a bit cluttered
19:12:16 <mizmo> can anybody reproduce the cantarell bold bug?
19:12:22 <fabsh_> although you can adjust for that with droid presumably
19:12:23 <kylebaker> the spacing can be changed
19:12:29 <mizmo> #info cantarell has a bug in inkscape where it goes bold when it shouldn't
19:12:31 <fabsh_> exactly
19:12:46 <ianweller> mizmo: i've had bugs like that in other (non-free) fonts
19:13:00 <fabsh_> i think droid is generaölly easier to read
19:13:00 <Schendje> i thought more people had that bug in previous meetings?
19:13:12 <nicubunu> yes, i have the bug too... complained on the list a few weeks ago and was adviced to use the text dialog (no workee)
19:13:16 <kylebaker> droid would be easier to read if it was spaced the same
19:13:27 <Schendje> nicubunu: indeed, the text dialog also doesn't work
19:13:29 <mizmo> oh i see, it's a problem for me too, the bold button on the toolbar doesn't work
19:13:29 <maxamillion> kylebaker: agreed
19:13:31 <fabsh_> kylebaker: agreed
19:13:41 <Emichan> I don't have that bug, is it just for specific versions of inkscape?
19:13:43 <mizmo> nicubunu, making it bold via the text dialog works for me
19:13:50 <mizmo> nicubunu, but the bold button on the toolbar doesnt
19:14:03 <Schendje> mizmo: it's bold with me too, i can't get the regular version though
19:14:07 <mizmo> im using inkscape-0.47-6.el6.x86_64
19:14:12 <Emichan> I like the spacing of cantarell, too, but agree that droid is easier to read
19:14:14 <nicubunu> for me in the text dialog it goes not bold until i hit apply
19:14:15 <mizmo> Schendje, weird! i get the regular version by default
19:14:37 <Schendje> Inkscape 0.47 r22583 here.. hmmm
19:14:53 * maxamillion tries to find a snarky comment about mizmo running EL6 and not Fedora but can't think of one
19:14:54 <kylebaker> mizmo, what is your gut feeling?
19:14:57 <maxamillion> :)
19:15:18 <mizmo> well i set the line-height to 1.5 em
19:15:29 <mizmo> so the line height for both cantarell and droid sans is the same in Emichan's webpage
19:15:37 <Emichan> I'm using inkscape 0.48 - the devel version
19:15:47 <mizmo> i still feel like cantarell is lighter, easier to read, and to me more elegant
19:15:55 <Schendje> i'll upgrade my inkscape, see how that goes...
19:16:01 <Schendje> and otherwise contact the inkscape developers
19:16:04 <maxamillion> mizmo: what's this font fight for? what are we deciding between these to for?
19:16:07 <maxamillion> s/to/two
19:16:09 <mizmo> -my- gut feeling would be to give cantarell a shot
19:16:20 <mizmo> maxamillion, for the fedora brand font recommendations
19:16:25 <Emichan> droid does have support for more scripts
19:16:26 <maxamillion> ohhh ok
19:16:30 <Emichan> something to keep in mind
19:16:38 <mizmo> maxamillion, so we decided comfortaa is going to be our headline font; we need to decide our body font
19:16:40 <maxamillion> Emichan: oh? ... that is something to keep in mind
19:16:48 <maxamillion> mizmo: ahh, makes sense
19:17:15 <finalzone> i personally like cantarell more
19:17:19 <Emichan> droid has CJK support as well... so we wouldn't need a separate font for those scripts...
19:17:20 <mizmo> nicubunu, do you know if Dave has any plans to expand to Greek or Cyrillic?
19:17:28 <maxamillion> Emichan: how many more though? and how much work would need doing to catch Cantarell up?
19:17:44 <nicubunu> mizmo: i don't know his plans
19:17:50 <maxamillion> because I really think Cantarell is a much easier font to read through
19:18:07 <mizmo> "Droid Sans Fallback is a font with CJK support."
19:18:21 <maxamillion> what's CJK?
19:18:43 <mizmo> chinese japanese korean
19:18:43 <Schendje> chinese/japanese/korean
19:18:55 <maxamillion> ah
19:19:15 <maxamillion> so much about fonts I have to learn
19:19:28 <kylebaker> If they are spaced the same in the style sheets Droid does not work as well
19:19:31 <fabsh_> its a world in and of itself
19:19:45 <Emichan> cantarell has Basic Latin, Western European, Catalan, Baltic, Turkish, Central European, Dutch and Afrikaans
19:20:00 <inkscaper> droid good support cyrillic.
19:20:01 <Emichan> according to http://abattis.org/cantarell/
19:20:19 <Emichan> cantarell does have source availability which droid does not
19:20:25 <mizmo> one thing we could do if we like cantarell better is to pick specific fonts to fill in the gaps
19:20:45 <ianweller> +1 mizmo
19:21:12 <maxamillion> mizmo: use Cantarell where applicable and Droid Sans for the gaps?
19:21:14 <Emichan> we could always use both: cantarell as default/droid for those scripts not supported by cantarell...
19:21:21 <maxamillion> Emichan: +1
19:21:25 <Emichan> maxamillion: great minds!
19:21:32 <maxamillion> :)
19:21:39 <mizmo> so i just verified droid sans doesn't support japanese it falls back to deja vu
19:22:03 <maxamillion> oh
19:22:05 <mizmo> so we could do a fall back like this > Cantarell > Droid Sans > Deja Vu
19:22:10 <mizmo> Deja Vu Sans that is
19:22:12 <fabsh> well, these character sets a very different anyway
19:22:15 <mizmo> yeh
19:22:17 <ianweller> only worry i have is that deja vu looks nothing like cantarell or droid sans ;)
19:22:33 <mizmo> ianweller, deja vu Japanese goes fine with them though
19:22:37 <ianweller> hmm
19:22:43 <fabsh> most fonts designed for western characters use very generic characters for chinese and japanese anyway
19:22:51 <ianweller> should someone do a mockup?
19:23:06 <mizmo> have the same paragraph of text
19:23:08 <maxamillion> ianweller: does the typeface matter that much with such drastically different character sets?
19:23:10 <mizmo> in all the lanaguages fedora supports
19:23:11 <fabsh> maybe we are better off picking a separate font for these locales
19:23:27 <mizmo> showing cantarell for the langs it supports and droid and deja vu sans picking up the gaps?
19:23:44 <mizmo> inkscaper, do you know of any good free cyrillic fonts that might go well with cantarell?
19:24:09 <inkscaper> no
19:24:38 <inkscaper> i used droid
19:24:54 <inkscaper> and deja vu
19:25:10 <mizmo> inkscaper, do you think droid sans in cyrillic would be compatible with cantarell for latin?
19:25:49 <mizmo> #info development version of inkscape .48 does not have cantarell bug so it may well be an inkscape bug
19:26:00 <nicubunu> can us use Emichan's app to compare droid and dejavu for cyrillic?
19:26:13 <inkscaper> should try
19:26:18 <mizmo> #info current font proposal is to use cantarell where possible > fall back to droid > fall back to dejavu  OR cantarell + specific hand-picked fonts per locale
19:26:42 <Emichan> nicubunu: sure - I can make the changes today
19:26:59 <mizmo> #action Emichan will add the ability to compare droid and dejavu for cyrillic in her font compare app
19:27:01 <ianweller> +1 to either of the proposals
19:27:03 <mizmo> okay cool
19:27:19 * ianweller checks to see if there were any other questions he had based on his summary from pchestek
19:27:47 <ianweller> is everybody cool with what was suggested in that email, btw?
19:28:00 <ianweller> i'm going to mock up the fudcon and foundations logos with the new font and post to the list.
19:28:20 * tatica is just doing that :S
19:28:29 <mizmo> ianweller, yep
19:28:32 <ianweller> or tatica is and i don't have to do work.
19:28:40 <ianweller> which is much better. :)
19:28:40 <mizmo> ianweller, a bunch of us agreed changing the location font to comfortaa in the fudcon logo is a good idea
19:28:49 <tatica> ianweller, LOL
19:29:08 <fabsh> i dont understand all the points in the email but i cant factually argue with tm lawyers, i know that
19:29:08 <tatica> not like that, but I'm doing a banner for latam-magazine right now and I was just going to ask that
19:29:19 <tatica> I can export what I did
19:29:35 <mizmo> so does anybody have strong feelings against cantarell with fallbacks?
19:30:00 <Emichan> mizmo: I'm fine with that
19:30:06 <fabsh> NOPE
19:30:06 <ianweller> +q1
19:30:07 <ianweller> +1 *
19:30:11 <fabsh> sorry caps lock
19:30:14 <ianweller> keke
19:30:14 <mizmo> lol
19:30:20 <finalzone> not at all
19:30:41 <mizmo> okay, let's stick to our FLOSS roots and go cantarell. we just need to figure out which fallback fonts for those locales it doesn't support
19:30:41 <Schendje> sounds good to me
19:30:45 <mizmo> Emichan's app will help with that
19:31:07 <mizmo> #info We've decided on using Cantarell and will work to determine specific fallback fonts for uncovered languages
19:31:09 <mizmo> cool
19:31:17 <mizmo> any other font-related questions / issues / concerns?
19:31:25 <nicubunu> mizmo: maybe ask on planet or on the fonts list for non-latin fonts suggestions?
19:31:30 <Emichan> mizmo: btw droid sans DOES support CJK, but you have to have droid sans fallback or droid sans japanese,etc installed
19:31:34 <mizmo> nicubunu, thats a great idea
19:31:51 <mizmo> Emichan, oh okay awesome! are those just as open or is ascender charging $$ for them?
19:31:58 <fabsh> mizmo: i think we should change all the fonts. i won't argue with the lawyers though ;)
19:32:02 <Emichan> mizmo: have to check
19:32:08 <mizmo> kk
19:32:16 <mizmo> so that would make CJK fallbacks easier
19:32:22 <mizmo> fabsh, i agree 100% :)
19:32:30 <tatica> http://tatica.fedorapeople.org/Fedora_Artwork/Logos/fudcon-comfortaa.png
19:32:32 * mizmo designed the new gnome logotype because it was an MS font before!!
19:32:40 <tatica> hmm... I need to fix those border...
19:32:44 <finalzone> woah
19:32:58 <mizmo> tatica, is the 'fudcon' part comfortaa? cuz we have to leave that modata
19:33:14 <tatica> ahhhh
19:33:15 <fabsh> mizmo: cool. i like their new slogan :)
19:33:18 <tatica> better
19:33:34 * tatica changing it
19:34:16 <tatica> http://tatica.fedorapeople.org/Fedora_Artwork/Logos/fudcon-comfortaa.png <= done
19:34:16 <mizmo> kk
19:34:23 <tatica> only country will be comfortaa?
19:34:25 <mizmo> oh! that works fine
19:34:27 <mizmo> yep
19:34:29 <Emichan> according to the versions I have installed DS fallback/japanese are apache v2 licensed
19:34:38 <mizmo> unfortunately :( the lawyers said we need to keep modata, tatica
19:34:43 <mizmo> Emichan, okay kick ass
19:34:49 * fabsh still thinks we should change the I in that font :)
19:34:52 <tatica> mizmo, np, I guess they where going to say that
19:34:53 <mizmo> #info Droid Sans Fallback / Japanese have CJK support, apache v2 licensed
19:35:05 * Emichan agrees with fabsh
19:35:06 <finalzone> comfortaa package is submitted for review, it will be nice if there is someone taking it
19:35:08 <mizmo> fabsh, it definitely sticks out
19:35:18 <ianweller> finalzone: i would but i don't understand the font guidelines well enough :(
19:35:33 <mizmo> finalzone, matthew miller had volunteered to help package it. can you ask him to help with the package review?
19:35:40 <mizmo> i bet he'd be happy to do it
19:35:50 <maxamillion> finalzone: is comfortaa not currently under review?
19:35:55 <inkscaper> i want try create alpha banner using comfortaa and droid (cantarell)
19:35:58 <finalzone> mizmo, sure
19:36:20 <mizmo> inkscaper, that would be awesome!!!!!! i think it's due pretty soon
19:36:24 * mizmo not sure how it didn't end up on the schedule
19:36:36 <mizmo> #action inscaper to create alpha banner for f14 using comfortaa and droid
19:36:47 <mizmo> okay, lets move on to the next topic :)
19:36:52 <mizmo> #topic new Design wiki page
19:36:55 <finalzone> maxamillion: no one is currently assigned as reviewer =(
19:36:58 <mizmo> Emichan did a kickass job cleaning up our wikipage
19:37:05 <mizmo> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Design
19:37:06 <Emichan> thanks mo
19:37:08 <maxamillion> finalzone: link me, I'll review it
19:37:15 <mizmo> and I think nicubunu and msourada made some edits as well
19:37:18 <fabsh> finally!
19:37:25 <nicubunu> minor edits
19:37:33 <fabsh> nice work :)
19:37:38 <mizmo> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork  the artwork page is now happily deprecated :)
19:37:45 <finalzone> maxamillion: cool, I am doing it right now
19:37:56 <mizmo> i like the new banner too
19:38:01 <fabsh> should we have a list of people on the team or does that change too much?
19:38:04 <nicubunu> still, i don't think is good for us to add a lot of stuff on the page, keep it readable
19:38:16 <mizmo> well
19:38:25 <mizmo> i definitely need to clean up the meeting notes section
19:38:30 <mizmo> i think i'll make a new wikipage for them
19:38:36 <mizmo> that should cut down on the page length a lot
19:38:54 <mizmo> kk
19:38:56 * fabsh doesnt think the page is too long
19:39:02 <mizmo> so does any body have questions/comments/concerns about the page?
19:39:06 <Emichan> the old artwork page also has some information on resources and guidelines that may need to be moved over
19:39:17 <Emichan> i'm not sure which of that stuff is still relevant
19:39:19 <mizmo> i think most of those are out-of-date
19:39:28 <mizmo> a lot of hte artwork requirements are totally different now
19:39:31 * ianweller has to run :(
19:39:43 <Emichan> maybe we should link to the new guidelines?
19:40:02 <mizmo> we don't actually have new ones :( i don't think
19:40:14 <mizmo> what we usually do every release is refer to the artwork from the release before to understand the specs
19:40:35 <fabsh> maybe we should work on that
19:40:36 <mizmo> it might be worth having a section that links to every release's artwork
19:40:36 <mizmo> eg
19:40:37 <mizmo> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F13_Artwork
19:40:40 <mizmo> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F12_Artwork
19:40:42 <mizmo> so on and so forth
19:40:42 <maxamillion> ianweller: laters
19:40:46 <mizmo> later ianweller
19:41:20 <mizmo> okay so we have 20 minutes left
19:41:42 <Emichan> maybe we should talk about creating new guidelines in the next meeting?
19:41:46 * fabsh wants meetings in manaworld
19:41:53 <mizmo> Emichan, that sounds great
19:42:04 <mizmo> #action we'll discuss new artwork guidelines for fedora next meeting
19:42:07 <mizmo> i want to do open floor for at least ten minutes since we haven't had time for it in so long
19:42:14 <mizmo> #topic open floor
19:42:22 <mizmo> we could try the social half hour in mana world today
19:42:25 <mizmo> :) :) :)
19:42:38 <fabsh> if i manage to figure out how to find people :)
19:42:43 <Schendje> lol that'd be awesome
19:42:46 <fabsh> and i have no shirt in there... :/
19:42:52 <mizmo> i never get very far in it, i get killed by wormy guys
19:42:57 * Emichan has never played
19:43:02 <mizmo> it's very cute
19:43:04 <Schendje> are shirts obligatory for meetings? darnit...
19:43:10 * Schendje neither :(
19:43:12 <mizmo> it's a 2d anime-ish mmorpg
19:43:15 <mizmo> and it's open souce
19:43:17 <fabsh> i just found out about it from mizmo
19:43:17 <mizmo> source
19:43:35 <Emichan> has anyone tried google wave for online meetings?
19:43:41 <mizmo> http://themanaworld.org/
19:43:42 <fabsh> it breaks down
19:43:49 <fabsh> wave that is
19:44:02 <mizmo> i haven't tried it for live meetings. the gnome guys use it sometimes for long running conversations
19:44:03 <fabsh> not quite on the Firefly level yet, that...
19:44:07 * Emichan is a sad panda
19:44:33 <Emichan> i know gw has a vector drawing plugin and some other neat things
19:44:38 <Emichan> but i haven't used it yet
19:44:46 <mizmo> there's an open source gw thingy http://pygowave.net/
19:45:03 <mizmo> and also https://echowaves.com/
19:45:18 <mizmo> why sad panda Emichan
19:45:22 <fabsh> suse has one as well
19:45:44 <mizmo> fabsh, it's not open though :(
19:45:59 <Emichan> sad about gw breaking down - would be cool to try it... ;)
19:46:02 <mizmo> OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
19:46:06 <mizmo> i forgot
19:46:07 <Schendje> wave looked so magical at first... then everybody tried it and went 'huh. well. ok.' (at least that's the feeling I had)
19:46:16 <fabsh> mizmo: it isn't? :(
19:46:18 <mizmo> http://django.parcodiyellowstone.it/pickpic/
19:46:25 <mizmo> it's a little rough around the edges
19:46:40 <mizmo> but this is an app one of the students of the professors mchua met at oscon created
19:46:47 <mizmo> it's for collaborating on art
19:46:57 <mizmo> i was thinking it might be cool if we try it for F14 artworks
19:47:00 <fabsh> hmmm..... django. yum :)
19:47:00 <Schendje> mizmo: have you tried it yet?
19:47:08 <mizmo> Schendje, just for a few test images
19:47:11 <Schendje> the idea seems great but i haven't tried it myself yet...
19:47:23 <mizmo> it's hard to get a feel for how it would work collaboratively with just one off uploads tho
19:48:22 <fabsh> i
19:48:27 <fabsh> sorry....
19:48:30 <mizmo> okay i just started an F14 proejct on there
19:48:32 <fabsh> i'd love to help test it
19:48:44 <mizmo> #link http://django.parcodiyellowstone.it/pickpic/singleproject/?projectid=112
19:48:48 <mizmo> join!!!
19:48:51 <Schendje> i should just create an account, right?
19:48:51 <fabsh> i could even poke at the code. django is one of the few code things i understand
19:48:54 <Schendje> cool :D
19:49:06 <finalzone> mizmo: I got errors
19:49:08 <fabsh> oops.... django error
19:49:15 <mizmo> my username on there is mairin
19:49:23 <mizmo> finalzone, fabsh can you guys sign up for accounts first?
19:49:30 * Emichan joined!
19:49:31 <fabsh> it went kaploooooo-ey!
19:49:37 <finalzone> mizmo: just a moment
19:49:39 <fabsh> mizmo: sorry :/
19:50:02 <inkscaper> i have account on pickpic
19:50:35 <fabsh> thats better
19:50:49 <maxamillion> still broken on my end
19:50:59 <finalzone> now it works
19:51:08 <mizmo> maxamillion, what's it doing?
19:51:25 <Schendje> "GOOD JOB SCHENDJE" why thank you, dear pickpic!
19:52:00 <fabsh> they need to work on the design... lol ;)
19:52:38 <Schendje> fabsh: i'm thinking the dark grey on black is a little *too* dark
19:52:43 <mizmo> yeh it's a work in progress
19:52:49 <mizmo> it seems they are happy to hear our suggestoins though
19:52:56 <fabsh> cool
19:52:57 <mizmo> fabsh, it's AGPL :)
19:53:14 <maxamillion> mizmo: http://www.fpaste.org/o1Xw/
19:53:18 <fabsh> mizmo: ACE! I love the AGPL.
19:53:32 * fabsh loves his precious AGPL soooo much! :D
19:53:45 <mizmo> maxamillion, what happens if you go here?
19:53:45 <Schendje> maxamillion: i got that too, but it went away after i created an account
19:53:47 <mizmo> http://django.parcodiyellowstone.it/pickpic
19:54:17 <maxamillion> mizmo: takes me to a page talking about collaborative toolkit for graphic designers
19:54:29 <maxamillion> mizmo: should I register?
19:54:37 <mizmo> maxamillion, yep! then try the link again
19:54:47 <mizmo> so i guess let's make an effort to use pickpic and see how it goes!
19:55:00 <mizmo> if it works well enough maybe we can have our own installation set up
19:55:17 <maxamillion> wow ... doesn't even ask for an email address ... interesting
19:55:20 <fabsh> something i wanted to mention.....
19:55:35 <fabsh> GUADEC got me really interested in Gnome Shell theming
19:55:48 <fabsh> I think we should have a look at that soon
19:55:48 <maxamillion> mizmo: now it works :)
19:55:54 <mizmo> fabsh, i agree
19:56:00 <mizmo> i dont think gnome shell is going to be default for f14 now
19:56:07 <fabsh> apparently it's all CSS so it should be easier then Gnome 2 theming
19:56:07 <mizmo> but i think it'll be good to get our feet wet in theming for it
19:56:09 <Emichan> fabsh: I brought it up on the list a while back so i'm for it
19:56:12 <Emichan> :)
19:56:14 <mizmo> unfortunately i dont know anything about how to load the CSS into it
19:56:16 <fabsh> mizmo: really? wow!
19:56:19 <mizmo> i know there is a console
19:56:26 <mizmo> ive seen walters work with it before
19:56:30 <Emichan> i've played with the theming a bit
19:56:32 <mizmo> he has tools like firebug for it
19:56:36 <mizmo> Emichan, is it hard?
19:56:36 <Schendje> fasbh: you can do all kinds of things with it, apparently http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/214/3/7/GNOME_Shell___Ambiance_Theme_by_half_left.png
19:56:43 <Schendje> fabsh: look how close that is to the default ubuntu theme :O
19:56:49 <mizmo> it would be cool if we could write a how to or something for it
19:56:49 <fabsh> maybe we should talk to him about it
19:56:49 <Schendje> fabsh: fits really nicely methinks
19:56:54 <Emichan> not at all, esp if you are already familiar w/css
19:56:59 <maxamillion> mizmo: console for gnome-shell?
19:57:00 <Emichan> http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell
19:57:05 <Emichan> for install instructions
19:57:06 <mizmo> #action we need to investigate gnome shell theming, it is not hard if you are famliar with css
19:57:11 <aym> greetings
19:57:17 <Emichan> v. easy - jhbuild does all the work for you
19:57:20 <fabsh> i'll look into it
19:57:22 <mizmo> maxamillion, yeh, he showed me a live javascript console, so you could set CSS properties and watch them change LIVE
19:57:27 <mizmo> this was months and months ago too
19:57:28 * Schendje will also try some theming
19:57:29 <maxamillion> mizmo: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/LookingGlass
19:57:36 <maxamillion> mizmo: its looking glass, info in the link :)
19:57:37 <maxamillion> brb
19:57:41 * Schendje will do so after he actually get the shell working again haha
19:57:44 <mizmo> maxamillion, that's it!!!
19:57:48 <Emichan> then you just have to edit the gnome-shell.css file
19:57:57 <mizmo> #link http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell/LookingGlass  GNOME shell firebug-like tool for editing
19:58:06 <mizmo> #link http://live.gnome.org/GnomeShell GNOME Shell install instructions
19:58:06 <finalzone> gnome-shell can be edited with css??
19:58:08 <fabsh> i might talk to owen taylor ask him for some pointers on this
19:58:13 <aym> I'll put you in touch with Emanuele soon, re pickpic
19:58:22 <mizmo> #info to play with GNOME shell theming, install it then you just have to edit the gnome-shell.css file
19:58:23 <Emichan> i think it's in gnome-shell/source/gnome-shell/src/theme/gnome-shell.css
19:58:25 <Schendje> finalzone: yep, at least the theme can
19:58:28 <aym> need to sort some stuff 1st and rest a bit
19:58:31 <mizmo> aym, that would be great
19:58:39 <fabsh> mizmo: don't use their experimental repo!
19:58:39 <Emichan> restart gnome-shell to see the changes
19:58:42 <mizmo> aym, we'll be trying it out as a team, a bunch of us just joined a project
19:58:51 <Emichan> i haven't tried it with lookingglass
19:58:52 <mizmo> okay sweet
19:59:01 <mizmo> is there a console or UI to switch themes?
19:59:15 <mizmo> kind of like the theme chooser is old gnome?
19:59:25 <fabsh> that gnome shell repo busted my machine at guadec. luckil� mcepl was able to help me fix it
19:59:28 <Emichan> mizmo: not that i've seen
19:59:36 <mizmo> okay
19:59:43 <Emichan> hopefully before release
19:59:47 <mizmo> ill try to find out if they are planning it in time for f14
19:59:52 <aym> did you guys send us something for make art?
19:59:56 <mizmo> if so it might be nice to ship with some optional themes
20:00:06 <mizmo> aym, no we didnt get a chance to discuss it yet
20:00:11 <mizmo> aym, do you want to do a little promo for it now?
20:00:17 <fabsh> i thought current plan was ship it as an option with f14
20:00:23 * mizmo notes there are eu folks in here now
20:00:29 <fabsh> but even then it can't hurt to be prepared as a team
20:00:39 <mizmo> fabsh, oh i meant, planning a gnome shell theme switcher for f14 :)
20:00:41 <aym> http://makeart.goto10.org/call/
20:00:49 <fabsh> mizmo: ah, ok. cool!
20:00:52 <mizmo> #topic make art / open source art conference
20:00:57 <kylebaker> check this out http://sixrevisions.com/web_design/a-web-designers-guide-to-linux-fonts/
20:00:58 <mizmo> #link http://makeart.goto10.org/call/
20:01:11 <aym> mizmo: any chance red hat could sponsor a flight for the non-eu ?
20:01:14 <maxamillion> back
20:01:27 <mizmo> aym, it's certainly a possibility!
20:01:28 * fabsh finds out where the frak pointiers is
20:01:31 <maxamillion> mizmo: yeah, walters showed me at FUDCon and I thought it was the coolest shiz I'd seen in quite some time
20:01:32 <tw2113> hi everybody *does a little dance*
20:01:57 <mizmo> aym, would tutorials in working with the FLOSS tools be useful?
20:02:02 <finalzone> kylebaker: cool, I was looking for that website
20:02:14 * mizmo doesn't really have any art works of note to show, but is happy to talk about workflow & tooling
20:02:19 <fabsh> oh..... that's far :(
20:02:34 <aym> mizmo: we're quite full on the workshop side, but we could make some room, some lectures on methodologies and workflows could be nice
20:03:08 <mizmo> aym, ill send out a notification about this to our team's list
20:03:18 <aym> mizmo: we will be starting to sort the responses we got from the call in the coming weeks
20:03:29 <mizmo> aym, i'll send it out internally at red hat too because i know there are engineers here who are artists in their free time and use the open source tools
20:03:45 <aym> ah, good to know :)
20:04:03 <mizmo> okay cool
20:04:07 <mizmo> so we're pretty much out of time
20:04:17 <aym> I think if we get something before mid mid august that's still fine for us
20:04:17 <mizmo> if anybody wants to hang around we'll have a social half-hour starting now :)
20:04:29 <tw2113> it's because i showed up isn't it
20:04:30 <mizmo> thanks aym!
20:04:38 <mizmo> #endmeeting