19:00:09 <mizmo> #startmeeting
19:00:09 <zodbot> Meeting started Tue Jul 20 19:00:09 2010 UTC.  The chair is mizmo. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
19:00:09 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
19:00:14 <mizmo> #topic roll call!
19:00:19 * mizmo Máirín Duffy here
19:00:24 * nicubunu here
19:00:28 * Schendje here
19:00:33 <fabsh> this is like flight of the conchords... lol.... present
19:00:34 <pcon> o/
19:01:09 * sijis is around
19:01:09 * mbenitez hello
19:01:31 <mizmo> yay looks like we've got a decent turnout
19:01:33 <mizmo> aiight
19:01:37 <mizmo> lets move on to our first topic
19:01:46 <mizmo> #topic F14 artwork feedback
19:01:59 <mizmo> so kylebaker setup a wiki page to gather feedback
19:02:06 <mizmo> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F14_Artwork_Feedback
19:02:32 <mizmo> I blogged it and it got carried by a bunch of 3rd party sites including linuxtoday https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F14_Artwork_Feedback#External_References
19:02:40 <fabsh> nice :)
19:03:03 <mizmo> Schendje posted it to the users list and we got a good thread going there too http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/users/2010-July/377900.html
19:03:10 <mizmo> Schendje, did you get a chance to post it to fedoraforum.org as well?
19:03:20 <Schendje> oops, no
19:03:25 <mizmo> ryanlerch, did you notice any good identi.ca or twitter feedback?
19:03:25 <Schendje> i thought finalzone would do that actually :(
19:03:29 <mizmo> Schendje, ahh okay
19:03:33 <Schendje> cause he's a mod or admin there
19:03:34 <mizmo> oh he isn't around
19:03:36 <mizmo> yeh thats right
19:03:39 <Schendje> i don't even have an account
19:04:01 <mizmo> #action okay, ill update the fedoraforum F14 feedback task to have finalzone's name and ill email him on it
19:04:15 <Schendje> must confess that i also haven't added the feedback from the users ML to the wiki page (yet)
19:04:22 <Schendje> i'll do that tomorrow or so :)
19:04:37 <mizmo> it's all good, i still have to update the latest comments from my blog post on there
19:04:39 <Schendje> mostly though it's generally the same as what's already on the wiki (which i guess is a good thing)
19:04:48 <mizmo> #action Schendje to copy over users list feedback onto the wiki page at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F14_Artwork_Feedback
19:04:58 <mizmo> #action mizmo to update blog post feedback on https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F14_Artwork_Feedback
19:05:14 <mizmo> yeh the most common feedback i see is 'too dark'
19:05:22 <Schendje> lol yeah
19:05:26 <mizmo> does anybody else have ideas on where we should seek out feedback
19:05:29 <fabsh> dark rocks
19:05:32 <mizmo> or has anybody heard any feedback in other venues?
19:05:41 <fabsh> the dark side is always the most interesting ;)
19:05:50 <mizmo> lol
19:05:56 <mizmo> aiight well let's move on to the next topic then
19:06:10 <mizmo> #topic F14 artwork - has anyone made any progess on our winning alpha concept yet?
19:06:17 <mizmo> has anybody poked at the F14 artwork for alpha yet?
19:06:22 <mizmo> we're getting short on time, I think just one more week
19:06:28 <mizmo> the deadline for alpha is jul 27
19:06:45 <Schendje> not me, though i want to
19:06:49 <mizmo> for reference the URL is here, which has links to the sources https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F14_Artwork_Theme_Concepts
19:06:50 <Schendje> haven't found the time
19:07:16 <mizmo> it's definitely not the end of the world if we ship as-is in alpha but it would be nice to get some iteration in there
19:07:27 <mizmo> can anyone commit to playing around with it by next tuesday?
19:07:43 <mizmo> and presenting your work at next tuesday's meeting?
19:07:49 <fabsh> i can have a look
19:07:54 <mizmo> fabsh, sweet!
19:07:56 <fabsh> cant promise anything tho
19:07:59 <Schendje> i will, but can't promise it'll look good :D
19:08:00 <nicubunu> ideally the work is presented on the list
19:08:01 <mizmo> fabsh, you can't commit?
19:08:07 <nicubunu> so other have time to play with it
19:08:09 <mizmo> the thing is we have a deadline....
19:08:12 <fabsh> i can commit to doing something
19:08:23 <mizmo> nicubunu, yeh thats true, iterations should be posted to the mailing list first
19:08:24 <mizmo> all along
19:08:24 <fabsh> not sure it will be good though... ;)
19:08:35 <mizmo> fabsh, ah okay i get your meaning now :)
19:08:37 <mizmo> cool
19:09:03 <fabsh> i'll have a poke at it
19:09:09 <mizmo> #action fabsh & Schendje to iterate on F14 artwork for alpha and post what they come up with to the list before jul 27 meeting https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F14_Artwork_Theme_Concepts
19:09:15 <fabsh> and i'll mail that to the list too
19:09:27 <mizmo> sweet thanks fabsh and Schendje :)
19:09:36 <mizmo> okay we'll move on to the next topic
19:09:43 <mizmo> #topic Fedora branding font - any more feedback on Comfortaa, Cantarell, or Droid Sans?
19:09:54 <fabsh> i have one q on comfortaa
19:10:01 <mizmo> one piece of news I have, Johan emailed me this morning, and he said he's officially changed Comfortaa's license to OFL starting today
19:10:07 <mizmo> and he sent me updated copies of the font with license
19:10:09 <fabsh> cool
19:10:11 <mizmo> fabsh, sure what's up?
19:10:11 <Schendje> cool
19:10:23 <fabsh> can we only use it as is?
19:10:33 <fabsh> or could we modify it if we want/can?
19:10:36 <nicubunu> you saw on list my report about Dave's responsivity with cantarell
19:10:41 <mizmo> fabsh, we can modify it under the OFL
19:10:47 <fabsh> oh sweet
19:10:50 <mizmo> and it seems Johan is willing to make updates too
19:10:57 <mizmo> nicubunu, yep that is fantastic news
19:11:00 <fabsh> ok, that answers it thanks
19:11:15 <Schendje> personally i think comfortaa looks pretty damn good :O
19:11:16 <mizmo> fabsh, it would have been a prob with the old license but we are good now :)
19:11:23 <mizmo> yeh it's coming out well in the web design work
19:11:25 <fabsh> its the capital i that gives me some headaches
19:11:27 <Schendje> goes great with the logo
19:11:28 <mizmo> and it looks great in muffin
19:11:51 <fabsh> i personally would remove the guides on it
19:11:57 <fabsh> yeah, its a great font
19:12:25 <mizmo> Emichan's presentation template used it too and it works well
19:12:33 <mizmo> i think our next steps now that the license is cahnged
19:12:36 <mizmo> is to get it packaged for Fedora
19:12:43 <fabsh> sounds good
19:12:57 <mizmo> and once that's done, we should replace MgOpen Modata with Comfortaa in our logo guidelines
19:13:08 <nicubunu> +1
19:13:16 <Emichan> I agree. Comfortaa ++
19:13:17 <mizmo> i'm going to do a font-of-the-week blog post on comfortaa to share the good news -
19:13:22 <mizmo> i promised i would to Johan
19:13:24 <fabsh> i will post to the list asking for that cahange
19:13:28 <fabsh> *change
19:13:29 <mizmo> and as part of that blog post, i'll try to locate a packager
19:13:31 <fabsh> otherwise +1
19:13:45 <mizmo> #action mizmo to post font-of-the-week blog post on comfortaa and try to find a packager
19:13:58 <mizmo> cool
19:14:03 <mizmo> okay lemme see our next topic
19:14:19 <mizmo> #topic New Design team join page (by Michael Beckwith)
19:14:19 <mizmo> okay
19:14:26 <mizmo> i was really bad and forgot to post this to the list for feedback
19:14:32 <mizmo> i was wondering if someone else could take this task up
19:14:48 <mizmo> the url is here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Join_the_Design_Team
19:14:57 <mizmo> we need someone to post it to the design team list and ask for feedback
19:15:12 <mizmo> (or at least that's what we discussed doing last week)
19:15:14 <mizmo> what do you think?
19:15:22 <Schendje> didnt michael already do that?
19:15:31 <Emichan> what kind of feedback are we looking for?
19:15:46 * mizmo checks
19:15:52 <Schendje> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/design-team/2010-July/002745.html
19:15:58 <mizmo> Schendje, ohhhh he did
19:15:59 <mizmo> okay
19:16:01 <Schendje> just that i think
19:16:03 <mizmo> hm
19:16:10 <mizmo> can folks look it over and post their feedback on it then?
19:16:19 <mizmo> he wanted to make more progress on it but was looking for suggestions
19:16:23 <nicubunu> Emichan: ways to improve the page, make it more useful and friendly
19:16:29 <mizmo> like is there anything missin? what should he change? etc
19:16:42 <mizmo> can anyone commit to reviewing the design and posting suggestions on it?
19:16:58 <nicubunu> but since is a wiki... we can operate the changes directly, without bureaucracy on list
19:18:36 <mizmo> yeh true
19:18:47 <mizmo> well if anyone wants to make the changes themselves :)
19:18:52 <mizmo> Michael said he wanted some help with it
19:18:57 <Emichan> I can commit to looking it over, esp as a new member, I used it before signing up
19:19:00 <mizmo> i think it's important to have a better page to explain how to join the team
19:19:05 <mizmo> Emichan, that would be wonderful, thank you!
19:19:15 * jimmac apologises for being late
19:19:22 <mizmo> #action Emichan to look over Michael's draft design team join page and review it https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Join_the_Design_Team
19:19:23 <jimmac> comfortaa++
19:19:24 <jimmac> :)
19:19:26 <mizmo> jimmac, it's all good
19:19:53 <mizmo> okay so next topic
19:19:56 <mizmo> #topic fedoracommunity.org and Fedora website redesign
19:20:05 <mizmo> so i did a blog post yesterday on the latest fedoracommunity.org design
19:20:23 <mizmo> http://mairin.wordpress.com/2010/07/19/fedoracommunity-org-website-design/
19:20:32 <mizmo> let me show you the latest for the website
19:20:46 <mizmo> http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/webdesign/fedoraproject.org/fedoraproject.org.4.png
19:20:55 <mizmo> i did that this morning.... i think maybe its getting too cluttered
19:21:10 <fabsh> looks great!
19:21:23 <mizmo> but, it seems maybe not as useful for folks who are contributors, but maybe it's more useful for folks who are new to fedora and wanting to try it, or folks who only use fedora
19:21:34 <Schendje> mizmo, i had an idea
19:21:38 <mizmo> let me show you this other crazy idea i had one sec
19:21:42 <mizmo> Schendje, go ahead!
19:22:13 <nicubunu> existing contributors go directly to the wiki methinks
19:22:19 <mizmo> this is my crazy idea: http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/webdesign/fedoracontributors.org/fedoracontrib.org.png
19:22:23 <mizmo> not even finished
19:23:53 * jimmac likes the welcome dude
19:23:57 <mizmo> jimmac, lol
19:24:13 <mizmo> ideally i'd like to do new custom art there but i used placeholders for now
19:25:10 <mizmo> ive been looking at our old requirements list https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Website_redesign_2009_requirements#Tasks
19:25:14 <mizmo> when doing this
19:25:38 <mizmo> and it struck me that some of those things only contributors would really care about
19:25:42 <Schendje> i've been gathering all the things that "need" to be on there, and man it's a big list :P
19:26:03 <mizmo> Schendje, do you have your wiki url for that handy?
19:26:09 <Schendje> err wait ill get it
19:26:32 <Emichan> I like the idea of having a contributors site - and maintaining a consistent look across both sites is good usability
19:26:48 <Schendje> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Schendje/FPOcontent/#What_do_we_want_on_the_new_website.3F
19:26:55 <Emichan> a contributors site can be especially useful for new contributors and recruitment
19:26:56 <mizmo> on one level, fedora community (http://admin.fedoraproject.org/community) was supposed to be the contributors' site
19:27:19 <mizmo> but now we have fedoracommunity.org which is totally different, not a web app
19:27:27 <mizmo> and the community web app isn't really well socialized amongst the devels :(
19:27:29 <Schendje> i think it's a good idea to have a community hub....
19:27:49 <Schendje> if i look at all of the things everybody wants on www.fpo... it's also a lot of things that could go to a dedicated page
19:27:56 <Schendje> the latest news from the community and such
19:28:01 <Schendje> anyway i was thinking...
19:28:15 <Schendje> there's two important goals for the www.fpo page (among others of course)
19:28:27 <Schendje> 1) show visitors what fedora is (and a download link and such)
19:28:36 <Schendje> and 2) show the community and that everyone can join
19:28:50 <Schendje> so one's fedora purely as the OS
19:29:05 <Schendje> and the other is "the fedora project"
19:29:10 <Schendje> could we divide the page into two sections?
19:29:12 <mizmo> yeh i like that idea too schendje
19:29:21 <mizmo> one way to do is put the fedora the os at fedoradesktop.org
19:29:26 <mizmo> and hte community at fedoraproject.org
19:29:37 <mizmo> or keep the OS at fedoraproject.org, and move the communtiy to fedoracontributors.org
19:29:49 <Schendje> yeah
19:29:51 <mizmo> Schendje, i think having both on the same page is going to be confusing
19:29:55 <nicubunu> but fedora the os is not just a desktop
19:30:20 <mizmo> nicubunu, what else is it
19:30:29 <mizmo> that most people would understand
19:30:30 <nicubunu> a general purpose os
19:30:34 <Emichan> maybe that's why fedora-as-OS should stay on fpo - more general than a desktop
19:30:36 <fabsh> isnt this something the infrastructure team should be involved in as well?
19:30:37 <mizmo> eg if someone doesn't know what fedora is how do youexplain it to them
19:30:44 <mizmo> fabsh, yes they are as is the websites team
19:30:57 <nicubunu> i know so many people running it as server...
19:30:59 <mizmo> fabsh, so if we have ideas here ill make sure they get fed back
19:31:01 <fabsh> ok. just making sure they are in the loop :)
19:31:08 <mizmo> nicubunu, thats not a particularly good usage of fedora though
19:31:12 <fabsh> nicubunu: really? Oo
19:31:19 <fabsh> nicubunu: as opposed to centos?
19:31:20 <nicubunu> but that's what people do
19:31:20 <mizmo> nicubunu, eg if we tell people to use fedora as a server they are not going to have a good experience bc its not built for that
19:31:25 <Schendje> could work as long as we clearly separate them? right now it's all jumbled together anyway (is jumbled a word lol?)
19:31:28 <nicubunu> my own server is centos :p
19:31:35 <fabsh> same here
19:31:39 <Schendje> anyway, i made this (rough messy and crowded, but as an idea): http://schendje.fedorapeople.org/temp/fedoraproject.org_edit5.png
19:31:40 <mizmo> i mean there are people who race shopping carts but i dont think anybody is going to sell the shopping cart as a racing vehicle
19:32:13 <Schendje> we could remove the "News" parts at the bottom and move those to a fedoracontributors.org page
19:32:23 <Schendje> since they take up a lot of space and some of it doesn't belong there
19:32:43 <nicubunu> i think i could be ok with fedoralinux.org
19:32:44 <mizmo> Schendje, the news & planet & four foundations and in some part the events are really only of interest to current contributors though
19:32:55 <Schendje> yeah, those :)
19:33:00 <mizmo> nicubunu, linux is a separate trademark though i wonder if we can use it
19:33:14 <Schendje> but at the very least we need to show that we have a community, right?
19:33:29 <Schendje> it's not just about "this is fedora as a product"
19:33:37 <fabsh> community community community :)
19:33:44 <mizmo> Schendje, i think so but i dont think it shuld be front and center on the front page
19:33:47 <mizmo> Schendje, like, for example
19:33:50 <Emichan> true - part of the product IS the community
19:33:59 <mizmo> see the 'are you new?' box here http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/webdesign/fedoracontributors.org/fedoracontrib.org.png
19:34:14 <mizmo> maybe we could have a call out like that to bring people over to the website where we talk about our community and contributors
19:34:18 <mizmo> what's in the mockup right now.... one sec
19:34:20 <nicubunu> well... the domain names are probably the competence of the board
19:34:29 <mizmo> http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/webdesign/fedoraproject.org/fedoraproject.org.4.png
19:34:46 <mizmo> see the globe icon, 'world wide community', that could point to more info on the community
19:35:02 <mizmo> also the 'about fedora' box
19:35:41 <mizmo> i think probably links like that could go to a page that talks just about how fedora is made
19:35:58 <mizmo> maybe with stats on our community, maybe a lit-up map to show where are our contributors are across the world (we autogenerate those regularly)
19:36:13 <mizmo> maybe some interviews with community members
19:36:17 <mizmo> kind of like we do on spins.fedoraproject.org
19:36:32 <Schendje> doesn't that kind of shove it into the background though? :(
19:36:55 <mizmo> it's not the main goal of the page
19:37:00 <mizmo> we can't do everything 100% on the very front page
19:37:06 <mizmo> i think the main point of the front page should be
19:37:11 <mizmo> 'here's what fedora is, look!'
19:37:15 <mizmo> 'download fedora and try it out!'
19:37:39 <mizmo> i think pushing too hard to get ppl to join the community when they are struggling to even understand what linux and what fedora is, is just going to overload people
19:38:19 <sijis> that's a good point
19:38:24 <Schendje> yeah that's definitely true
19:38:41 <mizmo> so if we can focus on those two goals - #1 explain what fedora is and have people understand #2 get people to download and try fedora
19:38:45 <mizmo> focus on just those two and do them really well
19:38:51 <sijis> i would think the people would look for 'help' more than joining on the homepage
19:38:58 <mizmo> i think we'll have a better shot at drawing people into deeper aspects of fedora without scaring them off
19:39:01 <mizmo> sijis, i agree
19:39:22 <Schendje> ok, but could we make it a little more.. .special? :P
19:39:24 <mizmo> but joining i think should be front and center - super easy - on a website geared towards contributors
19:39:32 <Schendje> yeah
19:39:35 <sijis> yup!
19:39:39 <Schendje> but instead of throwing it in with the other links...
19:39:45 <mizmo> like this guy :) http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/webdesign/fedoracontributors.org/fedoracontrib.org.png
19:39:50 * sijis has never heard of fedoracontributor.org
19:39:54 <sijis> till now
19:40:06 <mizmo> sijis, i just made it up 2 hours ago lol
19:40:25 <mizmo> experimenting around to see if it could work conceptually
19:40:26 <sijis> oh.
19:40:52 <Schendje> yeah, something more like that...
19:40:53 <sijis> at first thought, that's like join + more
19:40:55 <mizmo> because there were so many good fedora links i was ripping out of the fedoraproject.org page design bc they didn't make sense for newbies
19:41:19 <mizmo> i mean if i dont even know what fedora is or i'm downloading it for the first time, i'm not going to check the build system or care about it
19:41:41 <sijis> very true.
19:41:41 <Schendje> instead of just throwing it in with the other features - making it something special since we're an open source project after all
19:41:56 <Schendje> doesn't have to take up much of the page or anything
19:42:01 <mizmo> Schendje, for what specifically
19:42:22 <Schendje> sorry? :)
19:42:32 <mizmo> Schendje, " instead of just throwing it" what is it
19:42:44 <mizmo> eg here we have
19:42:44 <mizmo> http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/webdesign/fedoraproject.org/fedoraproject.org.4.png
19:42:47 <Schendje> oh, right
19:42:50 <mizmo> "100% free& open source" with a link to more info
19:42:55 <mizmo> "Worldwide community" with a link to more info
19:43:00 <mizmo> a "Join" button in the main nav in the upper right
19:43:11 <mizmo> and the join category in the footer directory
19:43:16 <Schendje> i meant the "worldwide" community thing
19:43:38 <mizmo> Schendje, what is the problem you're trying to solve?
19:43:40 <Schendje> it has a big "Join us" below that though
19:44:04 <mizmo> yeh so there's 5 ways to get to info about joining the community on the mockup righ tnow
19:44:15 <Schendje> yeah that's true
19:44:31 <mizmo> is the problem you're trying to solve getting users to understand fedora is built by a community?
19:44:43 <Schendje> yep, instead of just showing it as a product
19:45:00 <mizmo> Schendje, but our goal #1 is to get them to understand what fedora is, and our goal #2 is to get them to download it
19:45:13 <Schendje> yes i agree
19:45:25 <mizmo> is understanding fedora is built by a community important to users when they are first doing those two things?
19:45:50 <mizmo> one thing that is noticeably missing from the page is a 'buy now' button which gives a hint that it's free too
19:46:11 <mizmo> and to some extent fedora is a product.... if people think it's a community only i think that's going to be a confusing introduction
19:46:27 <mizmo> the community products the OS
19:46:33 <mizmo> the community doesn't exist without to OS
19:46:44 <mizmo> so to understand what the community does, you have to understand what the OS is first
19:46:50 <nicubunu> but people should understand is not just yet another windows
19:46:55 <sijis> so, fedora is a community product :)
19:47:03 <Schendje> yes i see your point :)
19:47:07 <mizmo> nicubunu, are people going to try it just because it's built by a community?
19:47:14 <mizmo> or are they going to try it because it's different?
19:47:24 <mizmo> i mean the tagline right now is 'free your desktop'
19:47:37 <mizmo> "FEdora is a linux based operating system that offers the best in free & open source software...."
19:47:48 <Emichan> but our audience isn't necessarily all linux noobs
19:47:51 <mizmo> i kind of think right now that it's open source and free is stated multiple times on the page
19:48:00 <nicubunu> do we want people to use fedora because is a cheaper alternative to windows?
19:48:19 <mizmo> Emichan, yeh that's true, they may be a current user (so they will then look to this page primarily for support / help or to communicate with other users)
19:48:25 <mizmo> or they may be using another distro and considering jumping to fedora
19:48:39 <Emichan> what about linux users moving to fedora from another distro? a great community is a big selling point for that kind of user...
19:48:41 <mizmo> but if they are considering jumping to fedora from another distro it's important for them to leran what makes fedora different
19:49:07 <mizmo> nicubunu, no but i dont see how this page design is saying 'cheaper alternative to windows' either
19:49:20 <mizmo> hmm
19:49:32 <nicubunu> my point was: we still tell about the community
19:49:35 <mizmo> i guess im really confused
19:49:40 <mizmo> if you look at the very top of the page
19:49:47 <mizmo> "Fedora is a Linux-based operating system that showcases
19:49:47 <mizmo> the latest in free and open source software. Fedora is
19:49:47 <mizmo> always free for anyone to use, modify, and distribute.
19:49:47 <mizmo> It is built by people across the globe who work together
19:49:47 <mizmo> as a community: the Fedora Project. "
19:49:52 <mizmo> i dont understand what the problem is....
19:49:55 <mizmo> help me!
19:50:03 <mizmo> how are we not telling about the community?
19:50:12 <Schendje> well it's true that it's mentioned a lot on the page...
19:50:33 <Emichan> i think it's not that we're not telling about the community as much as we're not SELLING the community
19:50:51 <mizmo> maybe we should have a section "what makes fedora differnet' to talk about why it is diff from other distros
19:50:58 <mizmo> but why would we sell the community
19:51:27 <mizmo> the user community? Or the developer community?
19:51:32 <mizmo> they are a bit different no
19:51:55 <Schendje> i was talking about the community as "anyone who helps developing fedora"
19:52:07 <mizmo> so im a user
19:52:11 <mizmo> i dont contribute to fedora
19:52:21 <mizmo> why do i care about the developer community
19:52:29 <mizmo> why does that sell fedora to me?
19:52:37 <mizmo> if its fun to work on fedora, but i won't work on it, then why do i care?
19:52:37 <Emichan> but i think it's also important to look on the community as part of the product - an important selling feature of the product that sets it apart
19:52:49 <mizmo> Emichan, sure but then wouldn't that go under the 'about fedora' section?
19:53:10 <mizmo> i mean
19:53:16 <mizmo> i totally see selling the community on the join page
19:53:29 <mizmo> where we're trying to get people excited about pitching in and learning about the cool people we have in our community
19:53:32 <mizmo> but i dont understand,
19:53:41 <sijis> that's where i'd expect selling to occur.. on the join page
19:53:46 <mizmo> if our goal is to explain #1 what fedora is #2 get people to download and try it, why community needs to be front and center
19:53:51 <mizmo> we're just talking about the front page now right?
19:53:58 <mizmo> (that's all i've been talking about)
19:54:08 <Schendje> well i am :)
19:54:11 <mizmo> i agree with sijis that selling the comunity should be on the join page
19:54:23 <sijis> i do see #3 probably being.. what makes Fedora different or what's new wtih Fedora
19:54:37 <fabsh> i am with mizmo on this one
19:54:39 <mizmo> if we add too many core messages/goals to the very front page, we risk losing all messages in communicating to the user
19:55:18 <Schendje> yeah i see what you're saying
19:55:21 <Schendje> anyways i think i sort of derailed the topic, sorry - should we get back to the meeting and talk about this another time? :D
19:55:26 <Emichan> I guess I'd just like to see the community be talked up on the front page as a "feature" of fedora, not necessarily as something wholly different
19:55:42 <mizmo> Emichan, well there little slideshow is meant to show off features of fedora
19:55:50 <mizmo> Emichan, the first slide is a basic - what is fedora
19:55:58 <mizmo> Emichan, but we could add a slide in there talking about our community as a feature
19:56:06 <mizmo> there is also a 'features' tab on the secondary nav bar
19:56:09 <Emichan> sure - a slide like that would be perfect
19:56:11 <mizmo> that could also talk about community
19:56:40 <mizmo> and in the little greyscale icon bar on the front page worldwide community is mentioned as a feature
19:56:59 <mizmo> Schendje, sure i hope im not being dense
19:57:10 <mizmo> this has been a really helpful discussion
19:57:23 <Emichan> there's at least two different users we can/should target: new users (know nothing at all about fedora) and distro hoppers (why is fedora differnt/better than distro X?)
19:57:44 <Emichan> I think community is a good feature to talk up to the latter user
19:57:46 <mizmo> Emichan, yep and i think distro hoppers are really important and this design right now might not be reaching them as well as it could
19:58:06 * sijis steps away
19:58:11 <nicubunu> there are also the windows immigrants who may know *something*
19:58:12 <mizmo> maybe have a section in the main content area, "What Makes Fedora Different?"
19:58:22 <mizmo> and have that have some information on what makes fedora stand out from other distros
19:58:26 <mizmo> how we work differently
19:58:26 <Schendje> mizmo: nah i'll think about it a little more and talk about it on the channel some other time :)
19:58:27 <Emichan> agree
19:58:41 <mizmo> because right now that main content section is really just targeting total newbs
19:58:59 <mizmo> and we should be smart and reach out to other linux distro users & even smart windows immigrants
19:59:11 <mizmo> cool okay
19:59:13 <mizmo> we're running out of time
19:59:17 <mizmo> i wanted to discuss the tickets real quick
19:59:24 <mizmo> #topic design team ticket queue
19:59:50 <mizmo> i think pierros finished  fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/138
19:59:58 <nicubunu> yes, closed
20:00:15 <mizmo> and i think he sent out the email to ppl with missing hackergotchis too
20:00:30 <mizmo> that was ticket 139
20:00:31 <nicubunu> but do we have any reaction?
20:00:41 <mizmo> im not sure, it looks like he didn't make the meeting
20:00:52 <mizmo> nicubunu, can you ask him if he's heard back from anybody on the missing hackergotchis yet?
20:01:08 <nicubunu> he instructed people to fill tickets
20:01:21 <mizmo> ah okay
20:01:31 * mizmo checks to see if we've new hackergotchi tickets
20:01:42 <mizmo> .....
20:01:45 <Schendje> oh right and https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/142 i created a wiki page with guidelines
20:01:56 <mizmo> i dont see any new ones yet
20:02:12 <nicubunu> so the reaction was minimal
20:02:25 <mizmo> Schendje, awesome great job
20:02:26 <mizmo> well
20:02:33 <mizmo> i think we did well advertising the service on the blogs
20:02:37 <mizmo> and letting people know
20:02:53 <mizmo> there isnt much more we can do i guess if people aren't interested :(
20:03:07 <mizmo> #info pierros completed tickets 138 and 139
20:03:14 <mizmo> #info Schendje completed ticket 142
20:03:37 <nicubunu> we can harass people with comments on their blogs, but i won't do that
20:03:44 <mizmo> lol
20:03:49 <mizmo> so for a new ticket we have this one
20:03:50 <mizmo> https://fedorahosted.org/design-team/ticket/143
20:03:57 <mizmo> its to create a tshirt design for summer coding 2010
20:04:03 <mizmo> so as you might imagine it's pretty time-sensitive
20:04:14 <mizmo> i am wondering if anybody is interested in picking it up
20:04:19 <mizmo> nobody owns the tickt right now
20:04:49 <mizmo> if nobody is interested maybe i can make it the next bounty
20:05:04 <mizmo> okay
20:05:15 <mizmo> so we're over by 5 minutes now, so i'm going to go ahead and end the meeting
20:05:20 <mizmo> thanks everyone for coming
20:05:21 <mizmo> :)
20:05:25 <mizmo> #endmeeting