18:01:19 <jsmith> #startmeeting Fedora Board IRC Meeting
18:01:19 <zodbot> Meeting started Fri Oct  1 18:01:19 2010 UTC.  The chair is jsmith. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
18:01:19 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
18:01:30 <jsmith> #meetingname Fedora Board
18:01:30 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fedora_board'
18:01:50 <jsmith> #topic Roll Call (for Board members)
18:01:59 * jsmith is here
18:02:02 * mdomsch 
18:02:10 * jds2001 
18:02:11 * ctyler here
18:02:17 * mizmo here
18:02:51 <rdieter> here
18:03:00 <jsmith> Looks like we have most of the board here :-)
18:03:05 <jsmith> Great!
18:03:13 <jsmith> #topic Introduction
18:03:26 <jsmith> I'd like to take just a minute to introduce the topic and take care of a few particulars
18:03:47 <jsmith> First of all, let me express my thanks for everyone who has helped us to work on the vision statement
18:03:58 <jsmith> It hasn't been a particularly easy thing to do
18:04:09 <jsmith> but I very much feel it's a worthwhile endeavor
18:04:33 <jsmith> So, to make a long story short, this meeting is setup as a Q&A session around the vision statement
18:04:45 <jsmith> (if we have extra time, we'll open things up for more general Q&A)
18:05:16 <jsmith> We'll use our typical protocol for asking questions, which is detailed here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board_public_IRC_meetings
18:05:37 <jsmith> #info Meeting is for Q&A re: vision statement
18:05:51 <jsmith> Any questions or comments before we get started with Q&A?
18:06:47 <jsmith> #info Final draft of the Vision Statement is ""The Fedora Project creates a world in which free and open culture is both welcoming and pervasive, collaboration and outreach are the norm, and people are empowered to control their own content and devices."
18:07:25 <jsmith> #topic Questions and Answers regarding the Vision Statement
18:07:59 <jds2001> jaroslav raised a comment on the mailing list that's worth considering - pervasive would be a word not known to the average non-native english speaker
18:08:01 <jsmith> The time is now yours for questions and answers... we'll try to limit each individual question to ~8 minutes, to be able to cover as many questions as possible
18:08:07 <mizmo> #info thread on the vision statement on advisory-board list http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/advisory-board/2010-September/009308.html
18:08:12 <jsmith> jds2001: Good question...
18:08:19 <jds2001> but im not sure of a suggestion to fix it :(
18:08:41 <mizmo> common, general, inescapable, omnipresent, permeating, pervading, prevalent, rife, ubiquitous, universal, wall-to-wall, widespread
18:08:47 <rdieter> thesarus-fu
18:08:56 <mizmo> far-reaching, sweeping
18:08:58 <jsmith> jds2001: I too hesitated to use that word, but it's a word that very well describes how we want Fedora to fit into the bigger world.  Yes, it's a difficult word to translate, but it's also a very specific word
18:09:04 <mizmo> wide-ranging, widespread
18:09:17 <jsmith> It's a combination of far-reaching and widespread
18:09:26 <jsmith> In other words, it's not a mile wide and an inch deep
18:09:35 <jsmith> Nor is it a mile deep and an inch wide
18:09:46 <mdomsch> for the germans: in, with, and under ? :-)
18:09:50 <rdieter> I had asked jreznik for suggested alternatives, but seems he didn't come up with any. :(
18:10:37 <jsmith> permeating is as close to pervasive as any of the others, but is difficult to translate itself :-/
18:10:39 <mdomsch> sorry - protestant/lutheran humor attempt there...
18:11:05 <jsmith> mdomsch: No worries... even if nobody else laughed, I got a kick out of it.
18:11:10 <mizmo> what is the meaning meant in the statement
18:11:11 <jds2001> heh
18:11:23 <mizmo> my interpretation was ubiquitous / widespread
18:11:48 <mizmo> "pervasive: to become spread throughout all parts of: Spring pervaded the air. "
18:12:06 <mizmo> widespread seems to be simpler language with similar meaning
18:12:32 <mizmo> "widespread: spread over or open, or occupying a wide space; distributed over a wide region, or occurring in many places or among many persons or individuals"
18:12:34 <mdomsch> and provides alliteration
18:12:37 <jsmith> It's not as exact, but might be close enough
18:12:47 * mizmo missing the exactness involved
18:12:47 * mdomsch can't spell today either
18:12:56 <rdieter> widespread works for me
18:13:09 <jsmith> mdomsch: If we're going for that, I'm sure we could replace "outreach" with something that started with the letter 'c'
18:13:14 <mizmo> wuh-wuh instead of wup-puh
18:13:20 <mdomsch> well, we have 2 options:
18:13:42 <mdomsch> we can keep pervasive, and when we translate to other languages, attempt to find the closest match in each
18:14:08 <mdomsch> or we can use a different word, that might be more easily translated; but I suspect we'll run into the same problem with anything we choose
18:14:27 <rdieter> I'd like to hear from >1 non-native speaker too
18:14:48 <mizmo> rdieter, i think the guy upset about the commas had the same point
18:14:58 <mizmo> even though it only has two commas
18:15:11 <mizmo> his point was that it takes a while to dig into the meaning
18:15:12 <rdieter> ok, then, >2 ? :)
18:15:20 <jds2001> the commas are correct :)
18:15:30 <jsmith> Yes, I placed the commas with care :-)
18:15:49 <rdieter> grammar rocks
18:16:03 <mizmo> yeh the commas are clearly correct, but this dude used them as the reason (albeit likely wrong) he couldn't grok the sentence easily
18:16:27 <mizmo> but i think that can be solved too by listing the series out in bullet points when wiki-fying the statement
18:16:37 <mizmo> that would definitely improve the readability imho
18:16:42 * jds2001 didnt find anything saying he couldnt grok it
18:16:49 <jds2001> just asking if it was needed
18:16:49 <mizmo> jds2001, i had a discussion with him off-list
18:16:58 <jds2001> ahhhh
18:16:58 <jsmith> mizmo: I like the idea of bullets
18:17:02 <rdieter> and possibly the background, intent behind each of those points, as well ? (or not?)
18:17:18 <ctyler> in an expansion or explanation, sure
18:17:51 <jds2001> we should keep spot's feedback in mind - this should fit in a tweet :)
18:18:03 <jds2001> but i think we're over that
18:18:04 <rdieter> cool, cause I had to explain that on several occasions to folks who ended up with different/interesting interpretations, than what was the intention
18:18:27 <mizmo> extra explanation is probably cool but just somewhere else, kind of how individual points in the mission statement is explained on the overview page further down
18:18:33 <mizmo> not embedded
18:18:35 <jsmith> Right... I don't have a problem explaining the meaning and intention on a wiki page, but the vision statement itself should be concise
18:18:42 <rdieter> nod, agreed.
18:19:37 <jsmith> In the absence of any other feedback on the word "pervasive", I'm gonna put my vote in the "leave it in there" column
18:19:37 <mdomsch> jds2001: we're a bit over a tweet, yes
18:19:41 <mizmo> i think pervasive is the most 'SAT vocabularly' word in the statement, i dont really see any of the others being potentially problematic
18:19:54 <mizmo> i think widespread is a better word
18:19:57 <ctyler> jsmith: +1 to leaving pervasive in there
18:20:22 <mdomsch> pervasive++
18:20:26 <mizmo> -1
18:20:45 <ctyler> mizmo: pervasive is perhaps broader than widespread -- pervasive means soaking through everything, not just 'common'
18:20:46 <jsmith> mizmo: The best way I can explain it is with a peanut-butter sandwich... I see peanut butter widespread on the bread, but not pervasive throughout the sandwich
18:20:47 * jds2001 is on the fence :)
18:21:01 <mizmo> sounds like split ends to me
18:21:08 <mizmo> its a vision statement, not a literary opus
18:21:15 <jsmith> Point well taken
18:21:37 <rdieter> I think I'm with mizmo here, the clarity has to take precedence
18:21:55 <rdieter> -1
18:21:58 <mizmo> if people have to pull out a dictionary, they wont, then the clarified meaning is completely lost not just partially
18:22:02 <stickster> FWIW, I like 'widespread.' The vision statement should be simple *and* concise.
18:22:41 <stickster> I think it's easy for those of us who love language and writing to sometimes love a word for its connotation and distinction, but it may not help Joe Average (or even Joe Above-average) understand us better :-)
18:22:44 <mdomsch> stickster: are we past your 'concise' limit too?
18:23:04 <mizmo> jane like peanut butter. ugh ugh.
18:23:10 <rdieter> stickster: +1 (well said, better than what I was drumming up)
18:23:18 <stickster> mdomsch: No, I really like it.
18:23:20 <stickster> mizmo: :-D
18:23:31 * jsmith changes his vote to a definitive +0
18:23:33 <mdomsch> i'm fine with widespread
18:24:02 <jsmith> Alright... what other parts of the vision statement do we want to discuss
18:24:04 * jds2001 -1 to pervasive now :)
18:24:19 <jsmith> (I mean -- if this is the most contentious piece, then we've done something right, correct?)
18:24:27 <jds2001> rdieter: do keep in mind that stickster is....verbose :D
18:24:34 <stickster> loquacious
18:24:36 <stickster> bombastic
18:24:55 * jsmith would almost add "full of hot air" if he weren't sitting right next to stickster at this moment
18:24:57 <rdieter> stickster is on a roll, go go
18:25:02 <mdomsch> /both/d ?
18:25:03 * stickster punches jsmith
18:25:06 <jsmith> Ouch!
18:25:15 <jsmith> stickster: I said "almost"
18:25:17 <stickster> Did I mention pugnacious?
18:25:25 <stickster> <eof>
18:25:38 <mizmo> vainglorious?
18:25:46 <mdomsch> I think it flows fine w/o the word 'both' in there
18:25:52 <mizmo> vociferous
18:26:20 <rdieter> mizmo for the win
18:26:36 <mizmo> supercajifragilisticexpialladocious
18:26:47 <jds2001> does anyone have anything else????
18:26:51 <jsmith> OK, s/pervasive/widespread/ and s/ both//
18:26:53 <rdieter> mdomsch: good catch, I agree
18:27:06 <jsmith> (Are we under 140 chars yet?)
18:27:08 <rdieter> one more step towards tweetability
18:27:19 <mizmo> "The Fedora Project creates a world in which free and open culture is welcoming and widespread, collaboration and outreach are the norm, and people are empowered to control their own content and devices."
18:27:33 <mizmo> 62 characters over
18:28:06 <mdomsch> can we tighten up the second clause?
18:28:14 <rdieter> still way over
18:28:30 <stickster> #idea strike "and outreach are" and replace with "is"
18:28:30 <jsmith> mdomsch: We accept patches :-)  How would you suggest we tighten it up?
18:28:38 <mizmo> this is only 33 over "The Fedora Project creates a world where free culture is welcoming and widespread, collaboration and outreach are the norm, and people control their own content and devices."
18:28:40 <jds2001> s/are empowered to//
18:28:42 <stickster> #idea strike "are empowered to"
18:28:46 <walters> what was the rationale for "and outreach"?
18:28:55 <ctyler> Concise is one thing, terse is another; not sure twitter is the right ruler to measure by.
18:28:56 <stickster> jds2001: +1
18:28:57 <jsmith> mdomsch: That was the original idea, until we talked about it on Monday"
18:28:57 <rdieter> outread => attract new users
18:28:58 <mdomsch> outreach being an active verb
18:29:02 <rdieter> outreach...
18:29:02 <mizmo> is outreach redundant with welcoming
18:29:08 <stickster> mizmo: +1
18:29:22 <mizmo> this is 19 over "The Fedora Project creates a world where free culture is welcoming and widespread, collaboration is the norm, and people control their own content and devices."
18:29:32 <walters> i like that one better
18:29:47 <mizmo> hehe this is 17 over "The Fedora Project creates a world where free culture is welcoming & widespread, collaboration is the norm, and people control their own content and devices."
18:29:52 <mizmo> & <= ftw!
18:30:03 <walters> heh, that's cheating
18:30:03 <stickster> haha
18:30:05 <ctyler> s/own// ?
18:30:15 <mizmo> 13 over "The Fedora Project creates a world where free culture is welcoming & widespread, collaboration is the norm, and people control their content and devices."
18:30:17 <rdieter> I personally would prefer including outreach and drop welcoming, but that doesn't help us much size-wise, and I won't push it if I'm the only one that feels that way
18:30:25 <mizmo> but! twin w's!
18:30:28 <mizmo> ww
18:30:46 <jsmith> I'd rather have something that's better worded and slightly over the limit, rather than 140 characters and too vague.
18:30:46 <ctyler> rdieter: +1
18:30:53 <mdomsch> jsmith: +1
18:31:01 <mizmo> i think welcoming is more people-centric though
18:31:07 <mizmo> you can outreach to things that aren't people
18:31:08 <ctyler> jsmith: Agreed, clarity over twitter
18:31:16 <jds2001> jsmith: +1, but we should come up with a "twitter version"
18:31:22 <mdomsch> rdieter: +1
18:31:23 <mizmo> and outreach's meaning is sometimes for 'beating others'
18:31:33 <mizmo> 13 over is close enough no
18:31:34 <rdieter> seems odd to have to say the open/free culture is welcoming ...  to me that's almost 'by definition'
18:31:45 <mizmo> rdieter, one would think! did you see the blog post i made today heh
18:31:56 <mdomsch> well, there's the active verb outreach, and there's the (IMHO more) passive verb welcoming
18:31:57 <ctyler> rdieter: should be but isn't necessarily
18:31:57 <stickster> mizmo: why welcome wordiness? words wound when wielded... uh, wecklessly
18:31:58 <jsmith> !Fedora hearts !FIAF, collaboration, and peeps in control
18:32:34 <rdieter> mizmo: yeah (awesome by the way), ok, that's a different line of thinking than what I had in mind... but if that's what it takes to cover the bases, I'm fine with it
18:32:38 <mizmo> http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/blog/drawings/cookies/um-how.png
18:32:39 * ctyler still reads !Fedora as "not Fedora"
18:32:40 <mdomsch> I'd say we've been welcoming, but haven't done as much outreach - and part of the goal is to get more active on outreach
18:32:40 <mizmo> that diagram
18:32:46 <mizmo> includes "outreach" but does not include "welcoming" http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/blog/drawings/cookies/um-how.png
18:33:11 <mizmo> stickster, whoah, way!
18:33:21 <stickster> mizmo: You win the cookie
18:33:25 <mdomsch> doh
18:33:29 <mizmo> mdomsch, i kinda think the opposite
18:33:41 <stickster> rdieter: You make a good point. free/open culture == "collaboration".
18:33:50 <mizmo> http://duffy.fedorapeople.org/blog/drawings/cookies/istuff.png <= welcoming
18:33:57 <ctyler> stickster: but it's worth reiterating, imho
18:34:12 <stickster> What's currently the accepted version again?
18:34:22 <jsmith> There's more to open/free culture than just collaboration
18:34:28 <jsmith> (we're more than just crowdsourcing)
18:34:29 <mizmo> pre-twitterification
18:34:32 <mizmo> " "The Fedora Project creates a world in which free and open culture is welcoming and widespread, collaboration and outreach are the norm, and people are empowered to control their own content and devices.""
18:34:37 <mizmo> that's 60+ chars over
18:35:06 <ctyler> Enough with the 'wc -c' already :-)
18:35:29 <stickster> jsmith: Yeah, I should have said "contains" not "=="
18:35:35 <stickster> In any case...
18:35:37 <mizmo> i think the length is a good indicator of its simplicity or lack thereof *shrug*
18:36:11 <ctyler> Actually, I think there's a lot of open that is not welcoming or collaborative. It may be broken open, but it's still out there. I think we want to fix that.
18:36:19 <stickster> The pre-twitter version seems pretty good to me.
18:36:22 <mizmo> a swap on the shortest-form: "The Fedora Project creates a world where free culture is welcoming & widespread, outreach is the norm, and people control their content and devices."
18:36:52 <mdomsch> I concede mizmo's point on outreach, would be open to s/ and outreach are/ is/
18:37:20 <jsmith> "outreach is the norm" doesn't work for me
18:37:33 <mizmo> a swap on the shortest-form: "The Fedora Project creates a world where free culture is welcoming & widespread, collaboration is the norm, and people control their content and devices."
18:37:39 <mizmo> (swap back)
18:37:46 <jsmith> I want both collaboration and outreach
18:38:04 <mdomsch> jsmith: you don't like "is the norm" ?
18:38:15 <mdomsch> I'm having a hard time with that phrase
18:38:43 <mizmo> yeh is the norm of what
18:39:26 <jsmith> that collaboration and outreach are the norm, rather than being an odd way of doing things
18:39:40 <mizmo> a swap on the shortest-form: "The Fedora Project creates a world where free culture is welcoming & widespread, collaboration is commonplace, and people control their content and devices."
18:39:43 <mizmo> ww! cc! wee
18:39:45 <mdomsch> to me, outreach becomes the natural result of enthusiasm
18:39:51 <jsmith> Right now, people still look at me funny when I try to explain that we get lots of people to collaborate on building free software
18:40:06 <mdomsch> exciting even
18:40:20 <mdomsch> how can we add excitement?
18:40:21 <stickster> mizmo: I like that
18:40:36 <jds2001> mizmo: +1
18:40:38 <mizmo> mdomsch, add excitement to the statement?
18:41:04 <stickster> mizmo: 'an exciting world'?
18:41:11 <jsmith> "The Fedora project creates a world where free culture is welcoming, widespread, collaborative, enthusiastic."
18:41:13 <mdomsch> mizmo: yeah, somehow; the sense, at least, that what we're creating is an exciting world, rather than simply a world of drudgery that we have to advertise to get people interested in
18:41:20 <jds2001> who's to say the world is exciting?
18:41:21 <mizmo> well i mean
18:41:27 <mizmo> i think making it exciting is all in the treatment
18:41:30 <ctyler> pervasive and norm mean that it's *the* way things are done; widespread doesn't seem to convey that. Is there a simple, stronger alternative to widespread?
18:41:52 <mizmo> you take that statement, lay it out nice and cleanly, have photos and illustrations showing what it can do, will generate a lot more excitement than any turn of phrase imho
18:41:56 <stickster> ctyler: "free culture welcomes people everywhere"
18:41:57 <mizmo> but then again im a designer :)
18:42:05 * jsmith still likes pervasive, but it's too highbrow it seems
18:42:07 <mdomsch> indeed
18:42:17 <stickster> jsmith: Put away your monocle, thanks
18:42:24 <stickster> Mr. Peanut
18:42:26 <ctyler> s/people everywhere/everyone/ ?
18:42:39 <mizmo> we be simple folk
18:42:46 <mizmo> yessum
18:42:47 * stickster and jsmith are laughing here but you can't hear us. All in good fun!
18:43:05 <ctyler> simple folk eating peanut butter :-)
18:43:12 <mizmo> ungh ungh
18:43:18 <ctyler> collaboratively making sandwiches
18:43:19 <jsmith> OK folks... we're about 45 minutes in... are we making progress, or just going 'round in circles?
18:43:42 <mizmo> "The Fedora Project creates a world where free culture is welcoming & widespread, collaboration is commonplace, and people control their content and devices."  ?
18:43:47 <jsmith> "The Fedora Board creates a world where people work collaboratively, but finally agree on a vision statement."
18:43:55 <jds2001> :
18:43:56 <stickster> touche!
18:44:00 <jds2001> :)
18:44:01 <mdomsch> doh
18:44:43 <stickster> mizmo: fwiw, I think that vision statement is fairly concise and also kind of elegant.
18:44:55 <stickster> Might be a case of perfect being the enemy of the good :-)
18:45:12 <rdieter> mizmo: I like that, a good improvement
18:45:15 <mdomsch> worksforme
18:45:16 <jsmith> Aye... I don't think we're anywhere close to "good vs. bad" here... simply "good, better, best"
18:45:22 * stickster does think strike the '&' for 'and' thought
18:45:23 <stickster> *though
18:45:33 * jsmith agrees w/ stickster on that one
18:45:38 <mizmo> its only 15 over
18:45:39 <ctyler> stickster++
18:45:40 * jds2001 too
18:45:46 <mizmo> what! no &amp;
18:45:57 <mizmo> hehe
18:46:04 <mizmo> jk
18:46:24 <stickster> mizmo: I think we should use ♥ to test all utf16 delivery mechanisms
18:46:29 <rdieter> I suppose we could nix the "The Fedora Project creates a world where ..." part at times to make it tweetable
18:46:45 <rdieter> the stuff after that is the juicy part
18:46:53 <stickster> rdieter: Precisely. "Our vision: ____"
18:46:54 <mdomsch> rdieter: Fedora: where free culture...
18:47:11 <rdieter> mdomsch: ooh. neat.
18:47:21 <mizmo> "The Fedora Project creates a world where:
18:47:22 <mizmo> * free culture is welcoming and widespread
18:47:22 <mizmo> * collaboration is commonplace
18:47:22 <mizmo> * people control their content and devices
18:47:49 <mizmo> (just to see how it looks bulleted)
18:47:56 * jsmith likes it
18:47:59 <mdomsch> FedoraWorld: where...
18:48:00 <stickster> mdomsch: nice ;-)
18:48:13 <mizmo> #fedora: where... weeheehee
18:48:13 <ctyler> Looks good.
18:48:15 * jds2001 likes
18:48:25 <stickster> See, we can all be Gustave Flaubert for a day ;-)
18:48:39 <jsmith> I say we get the vision statement nailed down, then work on the identi.ca version
18:49:07 <rdieter> jsmith: good call, yes
18:49:22 <mdomsch> we need a 'c' word for devices
18:49:23 <jsmith> It's ten minutes before the hour.
18:49:34 <mdomsch> carryons, ...
18:49:40 <jsmith> or "data" instead of "content"
18:49:51 <mdomsch> ah yes
18:49:51 <jsmith> (althought content > data)
18:50:00 <mizmo> content and computing devices
18:50:01 <mizmo> hehe
18:50:32 <rdieter> haven't had much non-board feedback or comment (outside of stickster, but he doesn't count).  people's, we need to hear what you think.
18:50:41 <stickster> rdieter: Hey, that's darn rude ;-)
18:51:07 <rdieter> stickster: you're pratically still a board member... feel better/
18:51:09 <rdieter> ?
18:51:09 <jsmith> #info Now's your chance to have your say!
18:51:19 * stickster totally wants to hear from other peeps and is just here to serve the pretzels and pour the beverages
18:51:42 * rdieter snags some munchies
18:51:51 <ctyler> `U  `U  `U  `U
18:51:54 <jsmith> stickster: Do you have any of those jalepeño pretzels, with some cheese sauce, and a tall lemonade?
18:52:00 * jds2001 orders beer
18:53:39 <jsmith> OK, let's try to wrap up on time here
18:54:01 <jsmith> Are we all in agreement on the latest version?
18:54:12 <rdieter> yes
18:54:42 <jds2001> yep
18:54:57 <jds2001> watch the mailing list this weekend, quick vote on Monday :)
18:55:08 <jsmith> Works for me.
18:55:26 <mdomsch> yep
18:56:36 <ctyler> yes
18:57:02 <jsmith> Any objections?
18:58:19 <mizmo> none here
18:58:22 <mizmo> +1
18:58:24 <mizmo> yay
18:58:28 <mizmo> can we have a party after the vote
18:58:46 <rdieter> party++
18:58:48 <jsmith> mizmo: You bring the donuts, and I'll bring the milk
18:59:11 <mizmo> woo
18:59:27 <jsmith> #agreed "The Fedora Project creates a world where free culture is welcoming and widespread, collaboration is commonplace, and people control their content and devices."
18:59:30 <smooge> oh wait
18:59:35 <smooge> crap
18:59:36 * jsmith waits
18:59:44 <smooge> the meeting is over isnt it
19:00:00 <jsmith> smooge: Nope... just "almost" over
19:00:09 <jsmith> smooge: We're still taking input... what's up?
19:00:28 <smooge> ok I am here. I have no input.. but as a board member I should be here for the vote correct
19:00:29 <jds2001> jsmith: i was thinking something more than donuts and milk :D
19:00:32 <jsmith> (we can undo the #agreed if you're not in agreement)
19:00:41 <jsmith> smooge: The official vote is on Monday
19:01:04 <smooge> oh ok
19:01:19 <smooge> I have nothing I can say at the moment.
19:01:47 <jsmith> smooge: If you have something between now and Monday, bring it up on the mailing list, please.
19:02:14 <stickster> jsmith: So once this is in place, what happens then?
19:02:46 <jsmith> stickster: Well, it's part of my "master plan"
19:02:48 * rdieter thought party was next (sorry, couldn't help it)
19:02:57 <jsmith> Now that you brought it up, I'll have to share my secret plan!
19:02:57 * ctyler thought so too
19:03:08 <jsmith> First of all, make sure that the Board is doing things according to that vision.
19:03:36 <jsmith> Second, take the vision to the other groups (FAMSCo, FESCo, SIGs, etc.), and make sure they're on board
19:03:57 <jsmith> (Not that I think they won't be, but we owe them the courtesy)
19:04:06 <ctyler> Third, Profit! (oops, old Slashdot habit there)
19:04:29 <jsmith> From then, I'd like to take a step back and take a holistic look at Fedora (the distro) through the lens of this vision.
19:04:48 <jsmith> Start talking about things we can do to the bits and bytes to make sure they are in line with the vision.
19:05:13 <jsmith> Obviously, there are parts of the vision statement that pertain more to the community at large than to the bits and bytes
19:05:21 <jsmith> and we've got some work to do there
19:05:46 <jsmith> rdieter is working on a charter for a Community Working Group, for example, to explore how we can work better as a community
19:06:39 <stickster> So that example would address the "welcoming" portion of the vision. I get it.
19:06:52 <jsmith> Aye :-)
19:06:58 <mizmo> i think we should work with openhatch too in order to welcome new contributors
19:07:18 <jds2001> OPENHATCH?
19:07:20 <jds2001> oops
19:07:22 <mizmo> hehe
19:07:34 <jsmith> openhatch is one example of a group we can work with... there are probably dozens of others
19:07:38 <mizmo> http://openhatch.org/
19:07:41 <jsmith> jds2001: CAPS LOCK FRIDAY!
19:07:41 <ctyler> http://openhatch.org/
19:07:42 * stickster thinks that the question wasn't just for himself but for people who are watching this meeting but can't necessarily be here. Thanks for talking about the next steps!
19:08:08 <mizmo> asheesh and dpic are looking at implementing the fedora design team bounty system on there, for any project
19:08:43 <jds2001> nice!
19:09:06 <jsmith> OK, anything else?
19:09:07 <smooge> I am ok with things..
19:09:17 <jsmith> Shall we wrap things up for now?
19:09:24 <jsmith> #topic Any other business
19:10:22 <jsmith> Going once...
19:10:56 <jsmith> Going twice...
19:11:31 <jsmith> Sold to the bidder on the back row with the funny hat!
19:11:35 <stickster> hey now
19:11:42 <jsmith> Thanks again everyone for your feedback and hard work.  I really appreciate it.
19:11:46 <jsmith> #endmeeting