05:26:46 <mchua> #startmeeting
05:26:47 <zodbot> Log:            http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fad/2010-01-30/fad.2010-01-30-19.41.log.html
05:26:49 <zodbot> Meeting started Sun Jan 31 05:26:46 2010 UTC.  The chair is mchua. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot.
05:26:51 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic.
05:27:19 <mchua> #chair herlo jds2001 stickster spevack dgilmore ctyler loupgaroublond zxiiro
05:27:21 <zodbot> Current chairs: ctyler dgilmore herlo jds2001 loupgaroublond mchua spevack stickster zxiiro
05:27:23 <mchua> Starting the log for Sunday.
14:47:28 <ke4qqq> stickster: http://fpaste.org/9dD6/
15:01:46 <stickster> ke4qqq: yup
15:24:15 <herlo> loupgaroublond: do we have a fudcon live page somewhere on the wiki?
15:24:25 * herlo is working on the AV Kit page and wants to link to it...
15:27:10 <loupgaroublond> herlo, not yet, i have some drafts in gobby
15:33:38 <jds2001> loupgaroublond: im working on putting that on the wiki
15:33:55 <jds2001> i inadvertently destroyed the document but got it out of git
15:40:26 <herlo> loupgaroublond: cool...
15:40:30 <herlo> thanks jds2001
15:51:44 <loupgaroublond> ok
16:00:59 <mchua> loupgaroublond: I'll be ready for FUDCon Live at our appointed time of 30m (I'll try to take a pass through the materials then so I'll be caught up) - working on some main FUDCon process page stuff first with Chris.
16:01:08 * mchua thanks loupgaroublond profusely for his patience and awesomeness
16:01:08 <mchua> lou
16:01:14 <mchua> argh, keyboard...
16:01:38 <herlo> hzhz
16:01:55 <mchua> loupgaroublond: I see you as the owner of that page/process (since you did it for the last FUDCon Toronto) and me as your minion (who has been slacking off this weekend, so please yell at me to Do Shit as needed ;-)
16:07:34 <loupgaroublond> mchua, there isn't much Shit as is, i think it's just something taht we need to put our heads together on, i'll be back in about half an hourp
16:10:20 <herlo> what is an hourp?
16:13:14 <loupgaroublond> hour
16:19:02 <herlo> stickster: is afk
16:19:12 <herlo> loupgaroublond: haha, just kidding, my friend
16:31:41 * mchua ready for FUDCON LIVE!
16:32:03 <mchua> rbergeron, loupgaroublond: le ping!
16:33:15 <loupgaroublond> mchua, das pong
16:33:37 <rbergeron> hola
16:34:33 <mchua> hurrah!
16:34:41 <mchua> loupgaroublond: you had a list of Survey Stuff To Do, sir?
16:34:42 <loupgaroublond> ok, i'm on the doc in gobby
16:34:51 * mchua too
16:34:53 <loupgaroublond> yup, everything is in gobby for the moment as a place holder
16:35:15 <mchua> loupgaroublond: Ok, so gobby now and dump to wiki in 30m?
16:35:35 <loupgaroublond> we're doing the survey part now?
16:36:01 <loupgaroublond> check out the section =survey design=
16:36:11 <rbergeron> ke4qqq: you are awesome, thank you for looking into it
16:36:23 <loupgaroublond> my analysis there is only for the fudcon live part of the survey
16:36:43 <loupgaroublond> the questions that follow are intended for the fudcon live part as well, but they are applicable to the rest of the survey
16:36:55 <loupgaroublond> since rbergeron is here, we can discuss the survey in general too
16:36:57 * rbergeron just caught up in the logs
16:37:06 <rbergeron> is there a gobby location
16:37:09 <rbergeron> or whatevver
16:37:20 * rbergeron prays that this computer has gobby on it
16:37:31 <loupgaroublond> gobby.fedoraproject.org, you need the tool gobby to use it, otherwise it's 'yum install -y gobby' as the root user
16:39:37 <mchua> rbergeron: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Gobby
16:39:52 <rbergeron> i'm installing
16:40:02 <rbergeron> also i have a present for mchua i'm trying to find
16:40:49 <loupgaroublond> mchua, you've already looked at the points i've made about the survey, are there any more analysis points you want to add, small or big?
16:42:29 * mchua looking one more time, but thinks it's pretty covered
16:42:38 <loupgaroublond> and just so we're clear on this, what i want to see out of he next half hour is a list of evolutionary improvements we can make to the process, based on the survey results, and how we expect to realise improvements based on new survey questions
16:42:44 <mchua> ...yeah, no, I'm done, I made my comments yesterday.
16:42:58 <loupgaroublond> cool
16:43:15 <mchua> loupgaroublond: yep, and the second sprinting time this afternoon is to actually finish up the doc.
16:43:21 <loupgaroublond> yup
16:43:35 <rbergeron> evolutionary improvements we can make to the process of.... the whole fudcon? fudcon live? the survey process itself?
16:43:38 <loupgaroublond> so we identified three technologies on our radar that we are curious about
16:43:46 <loupgaroublond> improvements to fudcon live
16:43:46 <ke4qqq> rbergeron: yeah - well don't thank me yet - I think we need to sit down and find some owners for some of those "projects"
16:44:24 <loupgaroublond> rbergeron, if we analyse the rest of the survey, then it also applies to the whole of fudcon, but i think alot of those evolutionary improvements have been discussed already these past couple of days
16:44:32 <rbergeron> ke4qqq: i'm just thanking you for saying "this shiz has major issues"
16:44:43 <rbergeron> loupgaroublond: right, that's why i was asking :)
16:45:18 <loupgaroublond> response to google wave was lukewarm, i'm going to keep my experimentation with it for myself for the near future
16:45:32 <mchua> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/File:FUDCon-2009-survey-draft.odp
16:45:34 <mchua> (for posterity/logs)
16:45:39 <rbergeron> http://img27.imageshack.us/i/ponies.jpg/
16:45:44 <rbergeron> that's for mchua.
16:45:46 <mchua> loupgaroublond: Well, it's not FOSS (google wave)
16:45:51 <loupgaroublond> we have a working gobby instance already, aside from suggesting people use it, is there anything we need to do to enable it for a FUDCon? (throw more servers at it?)
16:46:09 * rbergeron tried to not violate every rule in the book but has probably failed
16:46:15 <loupgaroublond> mchua, the server backend is, the protocol is based on xmpp, the frontend is not, i've heard discussions about doing desktop based clients
16:46:31 <loupgaroublond> rbergeron, if you put a red fedora on the pony, you will have violated every rule
16:46:33 <mchua> rbergeron: the entire room is cracking up right now. THANK YOU!
16:46:47 * rbergeron notes that she actually didn't lose the TM or change colors.
16:46:59 <rbergeron> you can take him to the airport
16:47:55 <loupgaroublond> as for whiteboarding, do we have a concrete technology on our radar that we can use for whiteboarding?
16:48:25 <ke4qqq> coccinella - has whiteboarding within xmpp
16:49:17 <loupgaroublond> does that integrate with RL whiteboards as well? or should we just hack and use a projector?
16:49:46 <mchua> rbergeron: we're in fudcon-live-process (gobby doc)
16:51:26 <rbergeron> ok
16:51:55 * mchua just posted this in gobby, but:
16:51:57 <mchua> I think a good deliverable to aim for, for the end of our two sprints, is (1) a [[FUDCon Live organization process]]page that has an outline for everything we need to fill in, and then as much of that as we can fill in, and some sort of call to the mailing lists to help us fill the rest later.
16:52:02 <mchua> loupgaroublond: ^^ thoughts?
16:52:03 * mchua creating these pages now
16:52:08 <loupgaroublond> mchua, you read my mind :)
16:52:49 <mchua> Yay!
16:53:23 <rbergeron> let's do 1 - 5
16:53:28 <mchua> ....aaaand the wiki loads. and loads and loads.
16:53:34 <rbergeron> 1 - 10 is just.... people start freaking out. too many choices.
16:53:39 <mchua> rbergeron, loupgaroublond: you folks go ahead, I'll make those stub pages and catch up in a moment
16:54:08 <loupgaroublond> ok, the second comment i have is a NOOP statement, there was alot of comments on video and audio
16:54:22 <loupgaroublond> i'm sure this is resource dependant, but i think the technical side of it is/was worked on this week
16:54:28 <loupgaroublond> scratch the NOOP bit
16:54:54 <loupgaroublond> can i assume that we at least will have the technical ability to record, stream, and host and archive streams for all sessions?
16:55:18 <loupgaroublond> because if so, i have some survey questions we should ask based on this as well
16:56:03 <herlo> mchua: fooodz!
16:56:14 <loupgaroublond> herlo, i need her for another ten minutes, please
16:56:22 <herlo> NOOOOO!!!!
16:56:30 <herlo> oh, fine!
16:56:33 <herlo> :-P
16:58:11 <rbergeron> sorry i'm slow this morning. just woke up
16:58:12 <rbergeron> sleepy sunday
16:58:26 <rbergeron> also pretty much went to bed 4 hours ago ;)
16:58:32 <mchua> loupgaroublond, rbergeron: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_Live and https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_Live_organization_process
16:58:38 <mchua> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_Live
16:58:48 <mchua> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_Live_organization_process
16:58:50 <herlo> rbergeron: I went to bed about 6 hours ago, buthave been up for nearly 3 now...
16:58:55 <mchua> Both are stub-tastic, but we have a place to put things now.
16:59:05 * mchua returns to ze gobby
16:59:06 * herlo adds
16:59:08 <herlo> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Audio_Video_Kit
16:59:23 <herlo> as another great resource :)
16:59:57 <loupgaroublond> herlo, what is our capacity in terms of number of sessions we can record, and number we can stream live?
17:00:37 <herlo> loupgaroublond: with the avkit, probably going to attempt to build 2 for now
17:00:56 <herlo> but, if other people have av resources, we can do it with software right now
17:02:14 * herlo points loupgaroublond to http://fedorahosted.org/freeseer
17:03:10 <herlo> they are working on putting the git code there today
17:03:10 <loupgaroublond> k, something to think about
17:03:28 <herlo> loupgaroublond: what kind of room resources would you like?
17:03:36 * herlo goes to mark the avkit page as a draft
17:03:42 <loupgaroublond> i've put a field in the survey for now asking if people wanted to see a session that wasn't recorded, we can then judge by the number of requests how important more capacity is
17:04:13 <loupgaroublond> ideally i think we should be recording *every* session, but i can be understanding if we are missing expensive hardware
17:05:14 <loupgaroublond> anyways, the last big issue i identified is that only a quarter of people used fudcon live
17:05:24 * rbergeron nods
17:05:42 <loupgaroublond> maybe my expectations are high, but i want to raise that to 50 percent for the next time
17:05:42 <rbergeron> well, you can't expect everyone to want to do so, particularly in a "live" fashion
17:05:52 <rbergeron> a lot of people want to pay attention to what they've chosen to pay attention to
17:06:21 <loupgaroublond> one of the things that i didn't get out of the summary you published is how many remote people used live effectively
17:06:22 <rbergeron> having a stream to view -later- may boost those percentages
17:06:33 <herlo> loupgaroublond: talking with mchua about how many we want to *start* with
17:06:41 <loupgaroublond> herlo, :)
17:06:56 <rbergeron> loupgaroublond: I might be able to slice that from the survey. hang on
17:07:12 * mchua talking with herlo, brb
17:07:23 <mchua> notes coming in a bit
17:07:46 <loupgaroublond> the other issue i have in mind is i want to encourage more people to interact with fedora live as well, this might be less important for a fudcon than a FAD, but the goal is to make interaction a no brainer
17:08:39 <loupgaroublond> but yes, i know i'm being overly ambitious
17:10:12 <rbergeron> well, i don't think it's overly ambitious if you're including people catching up later, even if it is later in the day, etc. and also MOAR ADVERTiSING to remote users
17:10:47 <rbergeron> although, i'm not sure how the remote users will be connecting to on-site infrastructure, that seems like it could get painful
17:10:53 <rbergeron> for streaming-type stuff
17:11:06 * rbergeron notes that she leaves that technical stuff to people who are more capable
17:11:08 <rbergeron> (which is most people)
17:11:12 <loupgaroublond> we'll discuss that with fedora infra, of course
17:11:29 <loupgaroublond> my thoughts are we push the streams to a fedora server in a colo and use the pipes there for people to pull the data from
17:12:02 <loupgaroublond> this way we don't need any incoming ports open on the local infrastructure and we don't clog the pipes people are using excepting a single copy of the stream
17:12:15 <mchua> (let me know if you need me, herlo and I are working out FUDCon Live hardware)
17:12:20 <loupgaroublond> it also means that we don't need a bonafide server on site either, just a laptop or three
17:13:22 * rbergeron nods
17:13:36 * rbergeron playing with limesurvey, hang on :)
17:13:53 <jds2001> .whoowns fas
17:13:54 <zodbot> jds2001: No such package exists.
17:14:03 <jds2001> .whoowns fedora-fas
17:14:08 <zodbot> jds2001: No such package exists.
17:14:16 <loupgaroublond> .whoowns fas2
17:14:17 <zodbot> loupgaroublond: No such package exists.
17:16:38 <rbergeron> hmmm
17:17:32 <loupgaroublond> anyways, i put in a few more survey questions, thoough there's room for consolidation
17:17:39 <loupgaroublond> i think i'm pretty satisfied with what we hav enow
17:18:25 <loupgaroublond> mchua, when you're done with herlo, have a look at what i've put up and see if anything's missing or shouldn't be there
17:21:59 <loupgaroublond> i guess we're back on in 40 minutes?
17:23:07 <rbergeron> loupgaroublond: loup:
17:23:20 <rbergeron> loupgaroublond: okay, i pulled that out
17:23:36 <rbergeron> although i wouldn't necessarily count 6 remote users as anything remotely resembling scientific
17:23:38 <rbergeron> :)
17:24:21 <loupgaroublond> hmmm
17:24:41 <loupgaroublond> my other thought is that by better advertising this the next time, we will have more remote users
17:25:47 <mchua> noted, filling in a wiki page for you folks to look at too
17:26:12 * rbergeron is going to upload this print of results to wiki.... hang on
17:26:24 <loupgaroublond> cool
17:26:35 <loupgaroublond> i'm gonna run out and get that one thing i forgot at the supermarket yesterday
17:29:21 <rbergeron> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_Live
17:29:25 <rbergeron> no, that's not it.
17:29:36 * rbergeron is having serious pebkac this morning... ugh
17:29:51 <rbergeron> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/File:Remoteusers.pdf
17:31:33 <loupgaroublond> rbergeron, i see one important fact there
17:31:45 <loupgaroublond> of the 5 people that said fudcon live was trouble, 3 of them were remote
17:32:09 <loupgaroublond> if that's significant, i don't know, but it means we do need to fine tune how everything is used
17:32:32 <mchua> loupgaroublond and rbergeron  - rejoining this convo stream now, herlo is editing https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Audio_Video_Kit#Contents_of_the_AV_Kit (he's restructuring the stuff I just put there, we're trying to come up with a decent idea of an equipment list for ya)
17:32:37 * mchua reads back, reads gobby
17:32:45 <rbergeron> i'm not sure what you mean by saying it was trouble
17:33:07 <loupgaroublond> they said it made it harder for them to participate
17:33:26 <loupgaroublond> i'm interpreting it as a nuisance, for example, having to stop sessions to make sure things were recorded changes the pace
17:33:34 <loupgaroublond> and if you're a presenter, it can disturb your flow of concentration
17:33:42 <loupgaroublond> i'll be back in a few though
17:33:43 <rbergeron> well, that may have been a poorly worded question.
17:34:03 <rbergeron> maybe they normally would have attended in person
17:34:09 <loupgaroublond> ah..
17:34:21 <rbergeron> so it allowed them to participate less
17:35:41 <rbergeron> all 5 of those people have attended a FUDCon before, btw
17:37:38 <rbergeron> let me rephrase that
17:37:46 * rbergeron worded that poorly as well
17:38:39 <rbergeron> out of the 6 remote attendees, 5 had previously attended a FUDCon.
17:39:49 <rbergeron> so for those people
17:40:23 <rbergeron> 2 who say that it allowed them to participate more than they normally would have participated - they may have meant, more than 0 since they were not going.
17:40:35 <rbergeron> the 3 who say it allowed them to participate less than they normally would have
17:41:18 <rbergeron> perhaps it is.... they normally would participate more in-person, but they were still able to participate because FUDCon Live existed.
17:41:22 <rbergeron> even if it was.... less.
17:41:31 <rbergeron> less is still better than 0.
17:41:41 <rbergeron> i could see how a respondent could interpret it either way
17:45:03 <rbergeron> ke4qqq, i just caught up with your fpaste link
17:45:25 <rbergeron> all i can say is: ughhhhhhhh :)
17:46:55 <ke4qqq> which fpaste - there have been several, and while they are BAD - they got a bit better
17:47:06 <rbergeron> ummmmmmm.
17:47:19 <rbergeron> http://fpaste.org/jiUL/
17:47:37 <rbergeron> on limesurvey stuff packaging fail
17:47:42 <rbergeron> i should say
17:47:43 <rbergeron> library fail
17:47:46 <rbergeron> :)
17:48:04 * mchua ready with an update from the equipment side
17:48:08 <mchua> (me and herlo)
17:48:14 * mchua loves how the FUDCon Live track (including the freeseer hacking) is being done mostly by remotees, btw - I think it gives us, really, the best perspective possible. ;)
17:48:20 <mchua> Ok - some notes:
17:48:24 <mchua> #info We're assuming 4 simultaneous tracks for a FUDCon (we're going to be asking future FUDCon planners to keep it to 4 tracks), so that's not too much FUDCon Live stuff to coordinate.
17:48:25 * herlo is about to write out the wiki page
17:48:29 <mchua> #info The AV Kit will have equipment to record 5 tracks, because we figure one kit floating around for interviews on the side, etc. is a good idea. There'll be 1 "zomg, shiny high-quality streaming everything!" module and 4 "it's ok, we're streaming from webcams..." modules (or at least that's how it stands right now, but it's extremely probable we'll be able to pull that off).
17:48:34 <mchua> #info the AV Kit will be a subcomponent of the FUDCon Live kit - the FUDCon Live kit will also include 5 portable projectors, intended to be dedicated projectors for throwing a room's IRC channel on a side wall, so that remotees have a way to "talk back" to the room. (This one is pending on whether we have budget and can find a safe way to ship and keep track of them, but I think we can - but right now, tossing it out as an idea.)
17:48:41 <mchua> That's where we stand right now. Thoughts?
17:49:34 <rbergeron> I think it would be awesome to encourage people to record sessions on their own Portable Fun Toys and maybe have a station for them to upload at, possibly?
17:49:58 <rbergeron> A lot of people (myself included) tend to record things and then .... mehhhhhhhhhhh, not so motivated when I get home.
17:50:14 <ke4qqq> rbergeron: yeah that's the latest - they invited me to their private dev channel - and we've talked a little more, but I think we'll need an owner for every 2 libraries to work on getting patches accepted upstream
17:50:37 <rbergeron> ke4qqq: ooooh, private channel
17:50:39 <rbergeron> ;)
17:50:49 <ke4qqq> yeah - requires a password and everything
17:50:50 <ke4qqq> lol
17:51:09 <rbergeron> ke4qqq: i wish I could help, but i'm pretty much only good as a cheerleader on this :\
17:51:17 * rbergeron puts on the pony mascot outfit
17:52:37 <ke4qqq> lol a pony cheerleader???
17:53:07 <rbergeron> mchua: anyway, having someplace for people to upload is good for things like "in case of major fail at least we have lots of people's captured video / audio"
17:53:11 <mchua> rbergeron: I like that.
17:53:34 <ke4qqq> rbergeron: alt.fp.o
17:53:42 <ke4qqq> is what we did two NA fudcons ago
17:54:17 <rbergeron> i don't know if we could do something like uber-cheapness recyclable media cards
17:54:21 <mchua> #idea have an "upload station" for people who record on their own equipment
17:54:27 <rbergeron> ie: pick one up, turn it in, grab another
17:54:31 <mchua> Any equipment we'd need for that, rbergeron?
17:54:35 <mchua> stack of media cards
17:55:11 <rbergeron> or even something like... a bunch of flip videos, which just plug in over USB, although I'm not sure how linux-friendly they are
17:55:14 <mchua> (the FUDCon Live kit == AV kit (recording/streaming) + portable projectors (for remotees to type back to the room) + ???)
17:55:30 <rbergeron> let trusted people check them out
17:55:40 <rbergeron> or maybe sponsored attendees
17:55:41 <mchua> how to decide who's "trusted"?
17:55:50 * rbergeron has no clue  on who is truested
17:55:57 <rbergeron> err. how to decide
17:55:58 <ke4qqq> mchua: if you give them money they are trusted ?
17:55:59 <rbergeron> :)
17:56:01 <mchua> oh, we could do the "leave your drivers license/passport/etc" thing
17:56:05 * rbergeron nods
17:56:08 <mchua> which would let newcomers help too
17:56:10 <ke4qqq> mchua: would you let them go shopping with your RHT card
17:56:19 <ke4qqq> ?
17:56:38 <rbergeron> just a thought, anyway
17:56:42 <mchua> ke4qqq: No, but that's a separate case. I would let them borrow, say, my expensive keyboard if they gave me their passport to hold in exchange.
17:57:14 * ke4qqq wouldn't hand over my passport to do work for $project
17:57:21 * rbergeron likes to get home
17:57:43 <rbergeron> anyway. thought in passing :)
17:57:43 <ke4qqq> and prolly not my DL either
17:58:15 <mchua> ke4qqq: well, that would be if you're not a sponsored attendee or something like that
17:58:20 <rbergeron> ke4qqq: so how did it go 2 fudcons ago
17:58:46 <mchua> ke4qqq: like, if random person comes and says "can I help?" we say "sure, DL?" instead of just turning them down outright.
17:59:01 <rbergeron> although, a $5 media card isn't something I think we need to be collecting over.
17:59:20 <rbergeron> frankly, i have a bunch of old-school cards that i hate to throw away, but......
17:59:25 <rbergeron> would probably be happy to donate
17:59:31 <rbergeron> and i'd imagine other people would be as well
17:59:48 <rbergeron> and if someone mean, cruel and heartless doesn't return one
17:59:58 <rbergeron> well, it's not as horrible as losing a $100-$150 piece of equipment.
18:00:14 <rbergeron> and a lot of people have cameras and such.
18:05:00 * rbergeron will bbiaf, I need to find sammiches for my belly and it involves going to Subway
18:08:57 <loupgaroublond> mchua, side projectors for IRC sounds like an amazing idea :D
18:09:27 * mchua wants those SO BAD
18:09:39 * mchua bbiab, needs to work on FAD wrapup with Jon for a bit
18:09:41 * loupgaroublond passes mchua a fresh croissant
18:09:56 <loupgaroublond> mchua, ok, i'm back and ready when you are to discuss the doc side of things
18:10:34 <mchua> I think https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_Live_organization_process is the stub we need to fill in
18:10:35 <herlo> foods, where are you!!!
18:10:49 <mchua> and https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_Live needs to have existing content from FUDCon Toronto copied in
18:10:54 * mchua bbiab
18:10:55 <loupgaroublond> mchua, so lenient? i would ask for a temporary assignment of soul, in written contract, as a security deposit
18:15:31 <mchua> loupgaroublond: Yeah, but then we have to buy those $75 soul-boxes to keep the souls contained, and... well, that's more equipment to bring in, and...
18:33:24 <loupgaroublond> mchua, ready yet?
18:54:46 <rbergeron> loupgaroublond: so shall i just make a section in the gobby doc with highlights / statistics from the fudcon live portion of the fudcon survey?
18:55:10 <loupgaroublond> rbergeron, more so than the coarse points?
18:55:44 <loupgaroublond> i guess depending on what they are, put them either next to coarse points or put them in fine points
18:56:29 <rbergeron> loupgaroublond: ah, i see it now
18:57:21 <rbergeron> so i'm looking at what i can do to help here, but i'm kind of slow this morning for some reason
18:57:36 <rbergeron> anything specific you want me to add?
18:57:46 <loupgaroublond> anything you think is important
18:57:51 <rbergeron> other than incorporating new questions into a new survey
18:57:59 <rbergeron> which I think i will do and try and get that out tomorrow
18:58:10 <rbergeron> one thing i think would be interesting is
18:58:13 <loupgaroublond> well, those list wrere the important points i found in the survey, after my interpretation of the results
18:58:17 <rbergeron> (if time is permitting)
18:58:25 <loupgaroublond> the goal was to translate that into new survey questions and definite actions we need to take
18:58:30 <rbergeron> is to try and do a mini-test-run of "live" when we do marketing-fad
18:58:47 <rbergeron> if we want to try streaming, etc. do a test run
18:59:10 <rbergeron> and have the documentation / howto's ready to go so people can basically be testers of the documentation, if it's easy to understand, if they were able to get up and running easily
18:59:11 <loupgaroublond> if you have important items too, put them up, and then we can discuss what to do about it
18:59:27 <loupgaroublond> yup, that's the next step to do with mchua
18:59:39 <loupgaroublond> the top half of the document is going to be a how to, what's needed, etc....
18:59:52 <rbergeron> another thought i had while driving is that it might be interesting - depending on what tools endusers need to participate - is to maybe have a usb-key live spin with all the stuff they'd need to participate in fudcon live
19:00:07 <loupgaroublond> interesting :)
19:00:12 <rbergeron> for people who show up at fudcon, and don't have things ready / didn't prepare
19:00:23 <rbergeron> or at least a hand-out sheet with basics that people can grab
19:00:23 * mchua doing an update in #fedora-fad of the FAD overall
19:00:33 <rbergeron> how to install gobby, etc.
19:02:11 <loupgaroublond> well, that will be on the wiki too, we can point them to the wiki at least
19:05:50 * mchua reads up. what do you need me for?
19:07:12 * loupgaroublond reviews what's on the wiki and what's on gobby
19:07:56 <loupgaroublond> actually, what's on the wiki has most of the framework, so i think unping, i can put in the rest right now
19:09:00 <mchua> Yeah, I was hoping to get a framework into that state.
19:09:11 * mchua adding a few more notes to that based on the backscroll/gobby
19:13:02 <loupgaroublond> mchua, on the wiki or via gobby?
19:14:11 <mchua> loupgaroublond: on the wiki pages. I'll pop the links to this channel with a heads-up for you and Robyn when I'm done.
19:16:03 <loupgaroublond> mchua, wouldn't it make more sense to copypasta that to gobby?
19:23:05 <ke4qqq> rbergeron: have you checked out phpESP?
19:25:10 <mchua> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_Live
19:25:12 <mchua> (done with that)
19:25:17 <mchua> loupgaroublond: too late :)
19:25:58 <ke4qqq> mchua: will you have mktg look at phpESP and see if it works - I see ZERO bundled libs included
19:31:20 <mchua> (update: David is emailing the marketing list about phpESP.)
19:32:50 <loupgaroublond> mchua, oh well, at least now i can use emacs to edit the doc (check out itsalltext, if you get the chance)
19:33:12 <ke4qqq> stickster just got blamed for the bandwidth issues
19:34:10 * rbergeron will look at it
19:34:26 <mchua> loupgaroublond: You're like the 4th person that's told me about that extension in 4 days. I... need to install it now.
19:35:45 <mchua> I'm going to try putting https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_Live_organization_process into a bit more order
19:35:56 <mchua> so that when we copypasta gobby in, we'll have a better framework to do it into.
19:36:11 <mchua> ...but first I should finish up the fudcon 2.0 stuff with Chris before he leaves in 30m.
19:36:14 <mchua> I'll be right back.
19:37:41 * rbergeron wishes things would magically install for her sometimes
19:38:03 <loupgaroublond> mchua, i'm editing that right now on the wiki
19:38:31 <loupgaroublond> rbergeron, sure, just give other people root access to your box, and when they tell you you should install something, tell them to do it themselves
19:38:41 <rbergeron> or that when she was doing things that her Small Fries would refrain from aarguing over WHO GETS THE GOLDEN LEGO
19:42:06 <rbergeron> loupgaroublond: that's how it works at my house
19:42:09 <rbergeron> "honey install this plz"
19:42:12 <rbergeron> "do it yourself!" :)
19:46:36 <rbergeron> loupgaroublond: what i'm getting at is when i see things like I need to have a mysql database
19:46:52 <rbergeron> i start thinking "where is the online demo" :)
19:47:26 <loupgaroublond> 'what do you mean you don't know how to install one? '
19:47:36 <rbergeron> oh wait, here it is
19:47:41 <rbergeron> http://phpesp.sourceforge.net/demo/admin/manage.php
19:48:04 <rbergeron> loupgaroublond: i'm sure i could figure it out.
19:48:08 <rbergeron> i'm not exactly a hacker.
19:48:26 <rbergeron> i have to refer to wiki markup hints.
19:48:46 <rbergeron> on occasion :)
19:49:29 <loupgaroublond> hehe, that was sarcasm ;)
19:51:30 <ke4qqq> rbergeron: ha
19:51:37 <ke4qqq> I just am typing an email to that effect
19:53:08 <rbergeron> to which effect?
19:53:35 <ke4qqq> ignore me - was reading way back
19:53:42 <rbergeron> oh, to the phpesp effect
19:55:50 <rbergeron> hello, firefox collapse.
19:56:02 * rbergeron will brb
20:09:15 * rbergeron is not feeling very inspired by phpesp thus far
20:12:22 <mchua> rbergeron: ke4qqq had to hit the road, but we should bring this stuff up at Tuesday's meeting.
20:12:27 * rbergeron nods
20:13:11 <rbergeron> i'm wondering if we could get it up on a publictest instance. i'm trying to use the demo, but it is slooooooooooooooooooooooooooow to the point that it is locking up firefox
20:13:14 <loupgaroublond> mchua, i wrote up most of the howto
20:13:32 <rbergeron> but, the demo is running on sourceforge, which may not be the best environment
20:14:08 <loupgaroublond> rbergeron, we have some bits in  the gobby about future survey questions, do you want those on any particular survey related document on the wiki?
20:14:36 <rbergeron> but even trying to create a new survey - i'm filling out the first page, and it keeps sending me back as though i haven't filled something out, even though i've done all required things. and it says to go to the fields tab to edit individual fields, but there is no fields tab.
20:14:38 <rbergeron> yarrrr.
20:15:56 <rbergeron> loupgaroublond: if you want to dump that stuff into a todo: section on http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_research#FUDCon_Toronto_2009_Survey
20:16:03 <rbergeron> that would work for me.
20:16:24 <loupgaroublond> cool, it'll go under Fudcon Toronto 2009 +1
20:16:25 <rbergeron> I'll take that stuff and make a new-and-improved survey question list and float it out come tuesday.
20:17:12 <loupgaroublond> cool
20:25:32 <loupgaroublond> rbergeron, done
20:31:35 <loupgaroublond> folks, have a safe trip home
20:31:45 <loupgaroublond> i'm gonna part these channels since i have some other tasks to focus on now
20:32:47 * mchua making massive overhauls of the https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon_Live_organization_process page
20:33:01 <mchua> rbergeron: do you know if the gobby stuff got merged to wiki? or do I have to do that now?
20:33:48 <rbergeron> mchua: i'm not entirely possible.
20:33:51 <rbergeron> err. positive.
20:33:57 * rbergeron typing fail
20:34:43 <rbergeron> loup added the survey questions stuff to a tab.
20:35:19 <rbergeron> on......the marketing research page..
20:35:26 <rbergeron> sorry, i'm like, totally broken minded today in typing.
20:37:25 <mchua> rbergeron: No worries - it's been a crazy long weekend, and I know we kinda randomly sucked you into it :)
20:37:37 <rbergeron> i've just been multitasking with things
20:37:38 <mchua> rbergeron: we *totally* appreciate all your help! I don't think the FUDCon Live track would have gotten done without you.
20:37:43 <rbergeron> laundry
20:37:58 * rbergeron got new sheets and washed and put on bed and cat promptly yakked all over them
20:38:21 <rbergeron> i got a lego star wars game for the PC for the kids and didn't realize it needed a gamepad to be... played practically
20:38:30 <rbergeron> so they are trying to remember 400 keyboard shortcuts
20:38:32 <rbergeron> and asking me :)
21:07:12 <mchua> All right.
21:07:27 <mchua> We're wrapping up in Raleigh.
21:07:38 <mchua> #action mchua finish FUDCon Live cleanup later tonight
21:07:44 <mchua> (We've got all the content, it's just removing the cruft)
21:07:58 <mchua> I'm going to stop the logging in a moment.
21:08:05 <mchua> #info everyone please blog reflections on the event!
21:08:24 <mchua> Thanks everyone! This was a *very* productive weekend.
01:57:01 <ke4qqq> jds2001: ping
02:35:20 <jds2001> ke4qqq: [pmg
02:35:24 <jds2001> er, pong
02:35:37 <jds2001> you at home already?
02:35:46 <ke4qqq> jds2001: yep
02:36:01 <ke4qqq> and you can disregard - had a question re pt infra
02:36:06 <ke4qqq> but answered in -admin
02:36:22 <jds2001> yeah, you need to file an RFR to put something there
02:38:07 <ke4qqq> I knew that, the part I didn't know was how one is assigned a pt instance
02:38:21 <ke4qqq> and no SOP appears to exist
02:49:39 <mchua> jds2001: got home ok?
02:49:45 <mchua> (that was fast!)
03:27:57 <jds2001> mchua: yep
03:28:45 <jds2001> ke4qqq: the SOP is file an RFR and get magically assigned an instance :)
03:29:02 <jds2001> if it can be shared, great. If not, we'll build one (assuming we have resources, of course!)
03:57:35 <ke4qqq> fascinating
17:35:44 <nirik> .addchair #fad freenode nirik
17:35:45 <zodbot> nirik: Chair added: nirik on (#fad, freenode).
17:35:49 <nirik> #endmeeting