14:31:50 #startmeeting 14:31:50 Meeting started Fri Jan 29 14:31:50 2010 UTC. The chair is spevack. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 14:31:50 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 14:31:55 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Events_FAD_2010 14:32:18 So, we've got two IRC channels that we're using for this FAD 14:32:22 #fad and #fedora-fad 14:32:32 #fad is going to be our primary home, and the place where the FUDCon track is happening. 14:32:39 #fedora-fad will be where the folks working on FUDCon Live end up 14:32:53 We're about to get started with some general information and setting up the day 14:33:01 then at around :00 we'll be splitting into our two tracks 14:33:08 cool, i was wondering how that was going to get split up 14:36:40 Max talking about remote access 14:37:02 max: because we have two tracks we are going to run in both #fad and #fedora-fad 14:37:29 max: #fad fudcon brainstorming #fedora-fad fudcon-live 14:37:58 max: will rotate transcriber 14:38:13 paul: after each break transcriber assigned 14:38:26 max: we have voice available 14:38:49 clint: we should record and stream through asterisk 14:39:44 max: we have swag, including case badges 14:40:22 max: asking about hotel and transport issues and whether we'll continue using this hotel for the future 14:40:32 "the end of the world is coming" 14:40:35 max: the end of the world as we know it is coming - 3 inches at a time 14:40:39 :) 14:41:08 if the end of the world comes during avatar - we might feel like we are trapped 14:42:01 spevack, can you chair the rest of us so we can #? 14:42:25 i'm not sure you need to be chair for that 14:42:36 loupgaroublond: for #topic we do 14:42:39 and if you do, and the bot fails, a good grep will take you a long way 14:42:40 and that'll help break up the logs. 14:42:43 ah :) 14:42:43 true. 14:42:52 .chiar #fad mchua 14:43:04 .addchair #fad mchua 14:43:04 jds2001: (addchair ) -- Add a nick as a chair to the meeting. 14:43:14 .addchair #fad freenode mchua 14:43:14 jds2001: Chair added: mchua on (#fad, freenode). 14:43:31 .addchair #fad freenode jds2001 14:43:31 jds2001: Chair added: jds2001 on (#fad, freenode). 14:43:48 #chair SMParrish ctyler dgilmore ke4qqq 14:43:48 Current chairs: SMParrish ctyler dgilmore jds2001 ke4qqq mchua spevack 14:43:50 max: ground rules: lunch at 1300 eastern 14:45:00 jds2001 has magical powers! thanks! 14:46:47 max: Goal is to remove assumption that exist around premier Fedora events 14:46:52 max: goal of brainstorming session is to remove all assumptions that currently exist around premier feodra events 14:47:01 hmmmmm /me wonders if we should elect a transcriber :) 14:47:10 ke4qqq: go ahead 14:47:12 I'll listen 14:47:16 :-) 14:47:30 stickster: I'll run til next break at least 14:47:35 it is ok to stress important points :) 14:48:36 clint: what events will we support in addition to fads and fudcons (example: scale) 14:48:57 max added to the list: tiers of events overall 14:51:16 * loupgaroublond reminds transcribers to take regular typing breaks, if you're going to do this for three days straight, don't burn yourselves out 14:51:16 small contingent left the room to get performance enhancing drinks and post it notes 14:54:22 mel: drawing board - creates matrix of topics 14:54:34 max: reading wikipage 14:55:09 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Events_FAD_2010#Friday_January_29 15:00:18 paul: the implicit difference seems to be that FADs have fixed goals, whereas FUDcon has less 'stringent' requirements. 15:01:02 mel: writing rules: no critique; build on existing ideas 15:01:11 Mel is sending us up to the board to do a post-it note exercise 15:01:25 She's going to take over transcription AIUI 15:01:33 mel: is ordering us to close our laptops 15:01:51 We're brainstorming 4 main questions -- and we want any ideas that you have: 15:01:57 (1) What is a good FUDCon? 15:02:06 (2) What is a good FAD? 15:02:10 (3) diff FUDCon FAD 15:02:23 (4) How do we send stuff around to FUDCons, FADs, and top-tier events? 15:03:06 Starting with (1) 15:03:08 Please dump in brainstorm ideas here! 15:03:12 #topic What is a good FUDCon? 15:03:16 We'll go for 5min then switch 15:03:22 * ownership model 15:03:29 * social interaction 15:03:36 ReHacking at hackfests 15:03:37 planning tracks 15:03:40 ownership model RACI 15:03:46 less design brainstorms 15:03:47 * new ideas coming out of fudcon 15:03:57 fewer simultaneous tracks 15:04:22 are we discussing the good or the bad right now? 15:04:32 A places for folks in the community who don't normally interact with each other to interact 15:04:36 loupgaroublond: all 15:04:43 loupgaroublond: answers to the question "whta makes a good fudcon?" 15:04:48 less planning more hacking 15:04:59 ah 15:05:06 generalized calendar that lets people figure out their travel in advnace 15:05:07 well, i like the planning for future versions 15:05:12 developers to interact with users 15:05:17 better local involvement 15:05:19 its what fudcon really grew up from 15:05:25 how long should it be? 15:05:53 tour guides so n00bs don't get lost 15:05:54 being able to ask people 'by the way' sorts of questions 15:05:56 regional focus 15:06:17 and because it hasn't been said yet, barcamp style is good 15:06:36 What's the core of FUDCon? 15:06:45 loupgaroublond: I'm transcribing your post-its to the wall, btw 15:06:58 should RH sponsor everything? 15:07:08 is FUDCon RH's gift to the community? 15:07:30 participatory limits: do we need them? 15:07:50 fudcon has been in some ways a nice gift, but its not the only one 15:08:01 have cross-sections of fedora represented 15:08:22 is Fedora Red Hat's gift to the community? 15:08:23 better organized events 15:08:25 does not kill anyone 15:08:29 (planners, etc) 15:08:43 people showing up on time 15:09:28 FOOD 15:09:29 being in walking distance between hotel, event, and after events, or having good transportation available 15:09:38 one thought I've had is splitting the barcamp over two partial days with hacking sharing the time 15:09:41 start on time all the time 15:09:58 possibly developer oriented barcamp one day, user oriented the other 15:10:10 to ease organization of the barcamp each morning 15:10:38 beer for all meals 15:10:47 hehe, it's not fosdem ;) 15:10:53 south in the winter, north in the summer 15:11:10 (if we are moving into the beer at all meals wish list) 15:11:18 new contribs join 15:11:41 laubersm: everyone cheers 15:11:42 more upstream 15:11:57 * loupgaroublond is not cheering, he likes the cold 15:12:07 NEXT QUESTION 15:12:08 next fudcon in the NL 15:12:13 #topic What's the difference between a FUDCon and a FAD? 15:12:27 focus 15:12:27 $ 15:12:28 scope 15:12:34 FAD has single narrow focus 15:12:48 also size 15:12:51 well defined deliverables in advance 15:13:05 depending on the fad, its a matter of who is doing the organising 15:13:18 fixed goals 15:13:20 no users 15:13:30 for example, we could have a virt and sysadmin fad in the NL, and that would be organised outside of comm-arch in red hat 15:13:31 sometimes users 15:13:35 environment should be conducive to accomplishing specific goals 15:13:53 fudcons are barcamps, fads are generally not 15:14:20 short runway 15:14:21 generally speaking, most attendants at fads already know each other 15:14:39 can be attached to events 15:14:49 FADs held in conjunction with events do attract some users who can be brought up to speed at the beginning and participate productively depending on the task 15:15:11 creating new contributors 15:15:22 * loupgaroublond thinks fads and fudcons attached to events are counterproductive 15:15:34 but please prove me wrong :) 15:16:04 next! 15:16:07 #topic what makes a good FAD? 15:16:24 an assortment of skils 15:16:26 clear tasks 15:16:42 goals accomplished 15:16:52 loupgaroublond: during an event I mostly agree, the day before or after not so much 15:16:52 social internaction 15:17:00 something accomplishable quickly 15:17:04 whipmaster 15:17:07 inode0, ah ok, edge case :) 15:17:14 committed people 15:17:23 FOOD 15:17:32 getting those individuals together 3-4 times a year to do lots of work quickly 15:17:41 activity sprints 15:17:46 environment 15:18:02 higher frequency of FADs 15:18:13 pre-planning 15:18:27 external involvement and expectations for people not at the FAD expecting those at the FAD to get stuff done 15:18:30 low barrier to initiation 15:18:33 snow, and the accompanying snowball fight 15:19:10 the accompanying team building that comes from the experience 15:19:31 builds individual skillsets 15:19:38 making sure you accomplish as many action items during the fad, and walk away with as few necessary 15:20:13 more advertising 15:20:40 something that exists at the end that didn't before 15:20:43 flexibility of scheduling 15:20:53 strong online presence 15:20:56 FADS as needed, not just because it's time 15:21:18 flexible length 15:21:37 option to do one-day FADs 15:21:54 varying scope 15:22:18 low dollar, high value 15:22:22 about to switch topics! 15:22:25 NEXT! 15:23:04 #topic how do we send things to events? 15:23:16 (clarification: event box, avkit: how do we figure out who gets them, how do we get it over there and back? 15:23:20 events calendar 2.0 15:23:22 shipping accounts 15:23:24 flying ponies 15:23:24 ups 15:23:27 regional shipping accounts 15:23:29 keep ambassadors well supplied and let them take care of it 15:23:30 unicorns 15:23:51 levereage ambassasadors 15:23:54 carrier pigeon, 3d printern, teleportation 15:23:56 flying saucers 15:24:13 $ 15:24:21 package tracking 15:24:29 a transportation mailing list, 'yo, who's going this direction in the next couple of weeks' 15:24:45 scotty 15:24:46 in europe, in people's cars 15:24:48 requests for things should go on the event page 15:24:54 regional inventories 15:24:56 peoples', for that matter 15:25:01 which ambassadors monitor 15:25:03 swag inventory trac 15:25:03 paul -- "we're not clear on what this question is" 15:25:27 stickster, moving things from point A to point B 15:25:42 JIT production of items 15:25:56 in europe, focus on regional resources 15:26:21 I can't really imagine a FAD needing an event box or swag ... but we can ship just like we do for any other event 15:26:50 i think this is a general ambassador question 15:26:58 avkit is another matter but I don't see any reason we can't move that like we do banners 15:27:39 nonprofit 15:27:56 ? 15:28:26 or other .org 15:28:42 to take legal ownership of swag? 15:28:48 and of a shipping account? 15:29:46 * inode0 is honestly comfortable with the status quo for acquiring and shipping Fedora supplies around NA 15:29:59 brainstorm wrapping up, any last thoughts? 15:30:05 we've transcribed just about every post-it on the wal 15:30:35 note that the first two questions are the most important - remember that the 4th especially (how to get stuff around) is supposed to be in support of the first two (what's a good fudcon/fad) 15:30:46 otherwise we can end up talking about ambassadors stuff all day. 15:31:03 * loupgaroublond was wondering, yeah 15:31:29 don't worry so much about that, ambassadors can make a suitable process and do it 15:32:05 Ayup. but so much of us are involved in ambassadors we need to constantly make sure we're still focused on events. :) 15:32:32 last few brainstorms from the room: 15:32:33 survey 15:32:34 family-friendly 15:32:39 shirts for women, big folks, small folks 15:32:52 uh oh 15:34:31 * loupgaroublond can see an OLPC playground for kids to enjoy while the slow big folk do fudcon 15:35:05 end of brainstorm! 15:35:07 i was actually surprised to see that at a few european events, some local organisation donates netbooks and whatnot for kids to use 15:35:15 always a nice touch 15:35:17 #topic What's happening with the FUDCon live track? 15:35:19 loupgaroublond: oo nice 15:35:39 clint: paul and I were talking about our goals for the fudcon live track yesterday 15:35:43 mchua, you'll have to bring your extended family some time ;) 15:35:55 and it's figuring out remote participation - this is something we can do for free software, something we can give back. 15:36:07 loupgaroublond: (curious if you have thoughts since you were our fudcon live guru last time) 15:36:26 paul: we should be publishing events videos - but using 100% free software. 15:36:57 clint: figuring out what's in an avbox we ship to events. does it have webcams, etc? 15:37:04 mchua, i think i put this up on the wiki, but i have some very definite ideas i want to discuss tomorrow when we have time 15:37:06 goals I have in mind: 15:37:10 * defining use cases 15:37:13 * figuring out an architecture 15:37:20 loupgaroublond: Awesome. I'll try to get folks to move to IRC asap. 15:37:26 namely, quantifying, determining goals, determining a game plan, and lets see how that goes 15:37:32 * improved version of freeseer 15:37:33 mchua, no rush, i have to leave in about half an hour 15:37:37 loupgaroublond: gotcha. 15:38:02 clint: I want to work with the freeseer folks to find 2-3 major goals we can accomplish codewise ths weekend 15:38:47 dennis: we can record during the event, deliver recordings later, if we need to. 15:39:10 be realistic about live streaming - but capture more audio/video for playback later 15:39:22 ...er what dennis said 15:39:32 laubersm: ; 15:39:36 laubersm: er, ; 15:39:39 aAAH can't type 15:39:43 laubersm: :) 15:40:14 smparrish: question - are there two parts to the fudcon live track? hardware and software? 15:40:30 clint: sort of, we're trying out what equipment might look like this weekend too. 15:40:39 but we don't have any goals per se for how many event boxes we need, in what regions, etc. 15:40:48 let's figure out what's in an avbox first. 15:47:02 Ok - we're all gearing into freeseer mode right now, to figure out what's going to be done this weekend. 15:47:06 #topic freeseer time! 15:47:12 #info join us in #freeseer for the time being 16:02:06 j0 ricky, we're planning freeseer stuff in #freeseer 16:02:30 Thanks, listening in there too :-) 16:02:43 * loupgaroublond waves at ricky 16:03:34 Hey 16:05:07 loupgaroublond: you know that we're all in the #freeseer channel, right? 16:05:49 yup 16:06:29 to be completely fair, i'm more intersted in that the technology will be used, but i don't have the free time to follow the details right now 16:07:50 * loupgaroublond has to go now 16:08:01 i'll catch up on the logs first thing tomorrow morning most likely 16:08:24 spevack, we're bidding alex (dreamer) farewell tonight, he's headed off to india for a few months 16:29:39 zxiiro: hi, so I am moving locations atm 16:29:47 be back in about 10 minutes .... 16:29:56 we're going to be testing the current code and seeing how it works... 16:33:14 herlo: ok, contact if you need any help with the setup 16:33:27 contact me* 16:45:10 zxiiro: in the new room now 16:45:15 we'll be updating shortly 16:57:14 #action find free alternatives to vga2usb or work with epiphan to make them free 17:01:46 herlo, what about an inexpensive VGA to Composite converter which in turn feeds into a standard Composite Video Grabber? 17:01:52 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Events_FAD_2010#Friday_2 17:01:58 quality might suffer but that would work 17:02:07 now has the contributor schedule online, so people can see who's working on freeseer when. 17:02:12 heffer: can you give me some examples? 17:03:20 herlo, sure. wait a sec 17:03:26 tx 17:04:05 you could combine http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.28789 and http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5707 17:04:42 i ordered at dealextreme already. they ship directly from hong kong for free. for me it took 3 weeks to get the stuff (I'm in Germany) 17:05:13 so that's like a 45$ investment that might do the job 17:06:19 * herlo looks 17:06:29 heffer: we might go looking for one of those today... 17:06:57 most of the stuff they sell is made of pretty generic chipsets. so linux support should be available 17:07:32 heffer: scan converter is the word I've heard before. Is that what this is? 17:08:10 yes 17:08:20 k, I think we can probably round one up 17:08:31 the second link you gave looks really promisign 17:09:34 well you would need to combine those two devices 17:09:58 one to convert the VGA signal to Composite/S-Video the other one to capture it to a video stream 17:11:19 ahh 17:12:34 * rbergeron waves 17:13:31 hullo rbergeron! 17:14:20 mchua: hi 17:14:33 so, we just learned some fun facts about the vga2usb device 17:14:43 maybe there's a nicer way of doing this. maybe using vnc somehow. 17:14:46 mchua: it's not free (as in freedom, or beer) 17:14:48 o/ 17:14:56 rbergeron: do you know what's going on? I'm trying hard to keep https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Events_FAD_2010 up to date at all times with links to each track. 17:15:22 mchua: can you put that link in the topic maybe? 17:15:27 herlo: ...woo boy. Um... what's the anti-libre stuff? 17:15:35 mchua: the driver 17:15:38 \o/ 17:15:43 * mchua sighs 17:15:52 and they don't even have the driver for my kernel 17:15:54 :( 17:16:05 * mchua will, when taking required electrical engineering classes in grad school, MAKE OPEN HARDWARE DARNIT 17:16:08 * herlo is sad because I didn't consider looking at the drivers 17:16:23 Yeah, I hadn't even thought of that either - I just sort of assumed that there'd be an option that would work. 17:16:26 Gah. 17:16:36 #info vga2usb driver non-free. Problem. 17:16:43 herlo: what do we do? 17:17:12 mchua: one suggestion is to locate a scan converter 17:18:43 herlo: If additional hardware would help, we still have budget, the ability to drive to local stores, and online shopping with rush shipping. Just sayin'. 17:18:58 mchua: we may need to do that 17:19:24 herlo: Just tell us what ya need and we'll make it happen. 17:19:30 mchua: we do need to go to a store to get one of the firewire cardbus cards anyway 17:19:32 ...we may not have a budget for a pony, but... 17:19:40 if you guys have a webcam you can just plug in to use freeseer with that works 17:19:41 oh, but I wanted two ponies :) 17:19:51 zxiiro: yeah, we're gonna do that for now 17:19:59 so our weekend isn't shot or anything 17:20:18 cuz from freeseer's point of view it really doesn't matter what it is, as long as it speaks a language gstreamer understands 17:20:22 mchua: apparently, tiger direct is nearby 17:20:26 durham 17:20:27 such as v4l / v4l2 17:20:32 zxiiro: right... 17:20:46 herlo: tigerdirect now compusa is in north raleigh. 15mins away 17:20:51 * herlo is okay with that, but we need to find alternatives to support the slides issue... 17:21:03 SMParrish: oh. compusa still exists?? 17:21:07 tigerdirect/compusa is 15 minutes away? I'm *so* going to love living here this summer. 17:21:12 ugh, they won't have what I need... 17:21:17 it's compusa 17:21:24 they only have what you don't need 17:21:24 herlo: yes tigerdirect bought the compusa name for use on their stores 17:22:03 SMParrish: is it like all the other compusa stores? or do they still feel like a tiger direct store? 17:22:36 herlo: still like a tigerdirect store, but has a large TV selection in addtion to computer stuff 17:23:16 cool, so they *might* have something useful then... 17:26:33 * herlo is going to reboot for a sec to see if he can't get this working with an older kernel version 17:28:10 okay so this capture device looks better because they explicitly state that it has linux support: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.26319 17:31:17 heffer: awesome 17:31:35 #link http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.26319 <-- linux supported scan converter 17:31:54 * herlo will be right back 17:33:30 #link http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.28789 the VGA converter to go with it 17:41:48 I haven't been to the TD in Raleigh - the one in Durham is ok if you know exactly what you are looking for. 17:41:53 They "claim" to beat any price. 17:42:01 I find Best buy is real close 17:42:07 and easier to find stuff 17:42:12 and less of a wait to check out 17:42:31 * laubersm means "real close" in price if not matching 17:43:36 might look at stayonline as well. 17:43:45 mostly online stuff but warehouse in in N raleigh 17:43:47 well, that was fun 17:44:05 and can order with pick up at 17:44:05 /tmp got all mucked up when I untarred the vga2usb driver 17:44:12 dennis is helpful :) 17:44:19 dgilmore: ^^ 17:44:22 :) 17:44:31 stayonline employees/owners use linux 17:44:34 zxiiro: so, for now, let's talk about goals... 17:44:38 for today and tomorrow 17:44:46 ok 17:44:47 specifically, use cases and coding plans 17:44:56 for use cases, I see three basic ones... 17:45:15 rossand made a use case wiki here http://wiki.github.com/fosslc/freeseer/use-cases 17:45:25 zxiiro: I'll go look at that first then 17:45:29 i think it cover's quite a bit 17:45:32 http://www.stayonline.com/ 17:46:23 zxiiro: okay, so use case #2 seems impractical tbh 17:46:51 only because you will almost *always* want to record locally when you are streaming. I really can't see a reason *not* to do so... 17:47:04 i think so too 17:47:28 so, let's add one more use case there 17:47:29 locally is always a good backup 17:47:35 right-on! 17:49:30 so, the other use case is this 17:50:41 the ability to stream my desktop and record my voice as an input 17:51:05 that's on the wiki 17:51:19 Recording the local desktop and sound 17:51:39 it is? which one? 17:51:50 i see what rossand did, the numbers are scenarios 17:51:54 zxiiro: oh, I see it now... 17:51:57 yeah... 17:51:58 and under each scenario he has use cases 17:52:28 yeah, that's not really laid out very clearly 17:52:38 the use cases *are* actually the scenarios 17:52:56 i think he made it in 5 minutes earlier when you all joined #freeseer 17:52:56 and the resources to complete each is what he defines as use cases 17:53:09 he said we should edit it 17:53:42 cool 17:53:47 I'll make some edits right now 17:53:48 yeah he made it just to get us started 17:53:53 and then you can give me your opinion 17:53:59 sure 17:55:31 i'm thinking for recording the desktop, it should be as easy as just adding "ximagesrc" to the dropdown list that i have v4l and v4l2 in 17:57:29 yeah, plus the gui would need to be minimizable in that scenario 17:57:34 or have a task bar functionality 17:58:23 agreed, lets add taskbar to the list 17:58:57 herlo, dgilmore: lunch is here - we're breaking in ~5min. 17:59:09 mchua: cool 17:59:23 so come up and get your jimmy johns' whenever. 18:00:27 hmmm, i need food 18:00:37 mchua: cool, we'll be up... 18:03:02 zxiiro: http://wiki.github.com/fosslc/freeseer/use-cases 18:03:05 updated! 18:03:21 looking now 18:03:36